Anyone have a floor fitted by Des Kelly?

OctoberMammy

Just wondering if anyone has any first-hand experience of having a floor fitted by Des Kelly Interiors.

We've ordered herringbone flooring (in a new build) and have arranged to have them fitted by their guy (they outsource to some fitters they use regularly.)

However, someone has now put doubt in our mind by warning us off the fitters, saying that they're not concerned about the floor being 100% level before fitting, and that they'll just plough ahead with the installation regardless. Whereas other fitters would have self-levelling materials readily available to them, DKI have confirmed that their installers do not do self-levelling, and that we need to ensure the floor is perfect beforehand. This person told us horror stories about DKI being brought to civil court in one instance, because they wouldn't take responsibility for messing up someone's floor.

We're a bit concerned now, and wondering whether we should go ahead with buying the timber, but try to find our own installer. We're spending quite a bit on flooring, so obviously want it done right. Just to reiterate, it's a new build which is why the floor is uneven. (We've had it snagged and it should be remedied, but perhaps not precisely to the fitter's standard.)

Anyone have any experience using a Des Kelly installer?

AlanG

I have friends who used them and are very pleased. Laying the floor is a different job to leveling so you may well have to pay separately.

OctoberMammy

AlanG wrote: »

I have friends who used them and are very pleased. Laying the floor is a different job to leveling so you may well have to pay separately.

Thanks. Yeah, the issue is that Des Kelly don't do levelling at all - so wondering is it worth taking the risk of going with them, if they're just going to plough on and lay it, even if the floor isn't 100%.

Citygirl1

Hi. I had flooring installed by them 3 years ago, and was overall very pleased.

On the day the guys (both Eastern European) came initially do to the work, they took up the existing carpet, and then advised me that the floor was not level enough. In fairness, I was completely clueless about this at the time, so they could have just gone ahead, and I wouldn't have been the wiser. However, they advised strongly against this, and put me onto my sales contact at Des Kelly's.

In the end, they had to abandon for the day, and leave all the materials with me, until such time as the floor could be levelled.

My only issue with Des Kelly's was that they didn't have any contact available to do the levelling, as the fellow who normally did that type work had left them the previous week. However, the salesman did, off the record, give me the number for a guy he knew, who actually was very helpful, and did the levelling quite cheaply.

On the return visit, the installation was done by two Irish chaps, who told me they were qualified carpenters, two whom DK had outsourced the work. I was very happy with their work. Very neatly done around stairs, doors etc.....

OctoberMammy

Citygirl1 wrote: »

Hi. I had flooring installed by them 3 years ago, and was overall very pleased.

On the day the guys (both Eastern European) came initially do to the work, they took up the existing carpet, and then advised me that the floor was not level enough. In fairness, I was completely clueless about this at the time, so they could have just gone ahead, and I wouldn't have been the wiser. However, they advised strongly against this, and put me onto my sales contact at Des Kelly's.

In the end, they had to abandon for the day, and leave all the materials with me, until such time as the floor could be levelled.

My only issue with Des Kelly's was that they didn't have any contact available to do the levelling, as the fellow who normally did that type work had left them the previous week. However, the salesman did, off the record, give me the number for a guy he knew, who actually was very helpful, and did the levelling quite cheaply.

On the return visit, the installation was done by two Irish chaps, who told me they were qualified carpenters, two whom DK had outsourced the work. I was very happy with their work. Very neatly done around stairs, doors etc.....

Thanks for that!

Any links to the floor ?
INterested in a herringbone bone/parquet flooring myself

dazed+confused

Is your floor level already?

Jimmy McGill

You should get the floor level first before any flooring is put down. It will only lead to problems further down the line if not done correctly.

OctoberMammy

Just to be clear - we are currently at the snagging stage and it has been noted by the snagger, so it should be levelled soon. My issue is that it still may not be good enough for Des Kelly, and I've heard they won't make any effort to remedy it if not (because they don't do self-levelling, whereas some other companies do).

OctoberMammy

BrownFinger wrote: »

Any links to the floor ?
INterested in a herringbone bone/parquet flooring myself

They don't have it online, but it's their own Rustic Oak 12mm. They have a few different ones in showroom.

cheif kaiser

I had a new floor laid by them about 2 months ago and it is an awful job!

There was no time care taken with choosing which board to lay next, with the result that right in the centre of my living room, are 4 boards nest to each other which are identical and it looks awful.

I also had skirting boards laid and all were cut at exactly 45 degrees when my walls are not exactly plumb and the gaps were filled in with lumps of caulk. The top gap along the length of the board was also filled in with lumps of caulk and spread half way up my newly plastered and painted walls. The caulk is now starting to go off colour and is really noticeable.

They also had to put a trim around my fireplace which was cut too short leaving gaps at the corners.

Lastly, I had to ask the fitter had he any packets left over (I knew he had, as I counted the empty packets which he threw into my skip). This is not the first time that this has happened with Des Kelly, as last time, 2 packets of flooring disappeared with the fitters.

Maybe it's just me and I'm too fussy but I wouldn't recommend them and won't be using them again.

OctoberMammy

cheif kaiser wrote: »

I had a new floor laid by them about 2 months ago and it is an awful job!

There was no time care taken with choosing which board to lay next, with the result that right in the centre of my living room, are 4 boards nest to each other which are identical and it looks awful.

I also had skirting boards laid and all were cut at exactly 45 degrees when my walls are not exactly plumb and the gaps were filled in with lumps of caulk. The top gap along the length of the board was also filled in with lumps of caulk and spread half way up my newly plastered and painted walls. The caulk is now starting to go off colour and is really noticeable.

They also had to put a trim around my fireplace which was cut too short leaving gaps at the corners.

Lastly, I had to ask the fitter had he any packets left over (I knew he had, as I counted the empty packets which he threw into my skip). This is not the first time that this has happened with Des Kelly, as last time, 2 packets of flooring disappeared with the fitters.

Maybe it's just me and I'm too fussy but I wouldn't recommend them and won't be using them again.

Thanks - good to know!

unkel

We had the same issue. The floor installer (not DKI) refused to install because he floor wasn't level so they wouldn't stand over the 20 year warranty. We had to get the builders back (twice!) to level the floor properly

Standard practice, don't worry about it. But make sure you don't sign off on the house until the builder has this sorted!

charlietheminxx

Sorry to say I've heard bad things too, similar issues with what cheif kaiser said above with leaving gaps at the skirting boards.

Their floors are lovely, the issues all seem to come with their fitting services.

starbaby2003

I definitely would not use them again. They layed a floor for us and it was awful. I called the manager and they sent the guy who laid it to inspect.... I couldn’t believe it. Anyway their customer service is poor at best. So if you have something where you may need to follow up I wouldn’t use them.

OctoberMammy

Thanks all, this is exactly what we were warned about so think we will look elsewhere for a fitter. Cheers!

Citygirl1

Interested to read the different reviews.

It does sound like their fitting service is hit and miss. I did feel lucky that the guys who did mine were qualified carpenters. As above, they did a good job

I'm actually buying a new place now, so looking at flooring again, so will be wary....

Irish_peppa

I had both carpet and lino fitted by Des Kelly in both instances the guys were literally trying to do it as fast as possible. No great care taken it was in and out as fast as humanly possible to next job, Maybe they are paid per job i dont know. It was fine but definitly no great care taken. few bits at sides coming up and the lino was ill fitting near door saddle,

Muahahaha

Just wondering with flooring companies like DK is part of the fitting service that they take the old floor up or are they just expecting to lay the new on top of the old? Ive a kitchen-living room 50/50 tiles and laminate and wanted to replace entirely with new laminate.

cheif kaiser

Muahahaha wrote: »

Just wondering with flooring companies like DK is part of the fitting service that they take the old floor up or are they just expecting to lay the new on top of the old? Ive a kitchen-living room 50/50 tiles and laminate and wanted to replace entirely with new laminate.

No they won't take up your old floor or carpet. You are expected to have the old floor removed, the underfloor prepared and clean and your furniture completely removed.

If they call and none of the above is done, they will refuse to lay the floor and just walk off.

unkel

cheif kaiser wrote: »

No they won't take up your old floor or carpet. You are expected to have the old floor removed, the underfloor prepared and clean and your furniture completely removed.

If they call and none of the above is done, they will refuse to lay the floor and just walk off.

Not quite as black & white as that. You discuss this up front when you buy the floor. And you base your deal on whether or not you want the fitters to remove the current floor and take away the rubbish. Obviously this will cost more than if you do the stuff you mention above yourself.

cheif kaiser

unkel wrote: »

Not quite as black & white as that. You discuss this up front when you buy the floor. And you base your deal on whether or not you want the fitters to remove the current floor and take away the rubbish. Obviously this will cost more than if you do the stuff you mention above yourself.

With DK it certainly is. They give you a sheet of what you have to have done before the fitters arrive and it is very strict as to what you must have done. As far as I can recall, Bargaintown are the same. Had a stair carpet fitted by them and the same rules applied.

Atlantic Dawn

Got a wooden floor and carpets done, quality of the job was good but getting them to actually turn up and begin the job was a pure pain in the hole, left a feeling where I'd never pay them a single cent again for the hassle.

corkboy38

Des Kelly is a bollox.... bohs ****.

corkboy38

.

Irish_peppa

unkel wrote: »

Not quite as black & white as that. You discuss this up front when you buy the floor. And you base your deal on whether or not you want the fitters to remove the current floor and take away the rubbish. Obviously this will cost more than if you do the stuff you mention above yourself.

correct unkel and if i remember correctly the cost of having my old floor carpet pulled up and thrown out nearly doubled price of the job so i did prep myself it is quick enough anyway you can be quite rough as the old covering is normally going in bin plus if you bring to the likes of coolmine recycling its only about 30 or 40 quid for a whole car of old dusty carpet to get rid:)

Citygirl1

Muahahaha wrote: »

Just wondering with flooring companies like DK is part of the fitting service that they take the old floor up or are they just expecting to lay the new on top of the old? Ive a kitchen-living room 50/50 tiles and laminate and wanted to replace entirely with new laminate.

As above, they will remove and take away old carpeting for an additional charge, which you obviously need to agree in advance. I believe the same applies to old laminate. The charge is significant enough, so as per above poster, if you're able to do this yourself, and dispose of it, you would save money.

However, where you will have a possibly significant challenge is the existing tiling. Des Kelly installers will not take this up, nor will TC Matthews etc. It's a very messy job, and you'd need to get the floor levelled after. I've been literally investigating this point in the last few weeks, for a tiled room in my new property. I eventually got a guy who would be able to take up the tiling, but after further discussion with him and other parties, we agreed eventually to lay the new laminate on top of the existing tiling. This is something you could consider, but would need to take a look at the change in levels from one part of the room to the other.

Muahahaha

Thanks for all the tips, reckon I will remove the laminate and tiles myself but will have to get a professional to level it.

But just wondering though whats the pros & cons of taking up a floor vs. just laying on top of it? The new laminate is 12mm so would guess the doors would have to be shaved down a bit but other than that is it a better idea to just build on top of the current floor? Is the only disadvantage of laying new on top of old that its 1cm higher or is there any other considerations?

D13exile

Why don't you lay the floors yourself? Putting down laminate is one of the easiest DIY jobs to do. The modern laminates just click together and are very easy to cut. I've laid dozens of floors in my own houses over the years and family/friends houses. A typical room of 12ftx18ft can be done in 2-3 hours completed. You tube is your friend here for how to do it.

Something that has been overlooked by all is that if this is a new build, the moisture level in the concrete floor may still be too high and putting laminate down now may end up a disaster as the laminate will soak up the moisture and buckle resulting in you having to tear it up. A moisture meter (available from tool hire companies) will tell you if the water level in the concrete is still too high. If so, throw down a few scraps of carpet to walk on and sit back for a few months until the floors dry out as the house is lived in. If the moisture level is at an acceptable level, you will still need to lay a quality damp proof membrane on ground floors to prevent residual moisture seeping up into the laminate over the years. As for underlay, the white crap they supply in DK's and other flooring companies is useless and will flatten to paper thin over the years resulting in your floors effectively lying on cold concrete and you'll feel the cold coming up. I use the green wood fibre underlay boards from B&Q that are 8mm thick, insulate against the cold concrete beneath, soundproof and most importantly allow for some uneveness in the floor so it doesn't have to be billiard table level.

So what I do is lay the damp proof membrane and then the wood fibre boards (both available from B&Q) on top. Allow to settle. Place boxes of laminate in room for 48 hours to acclimatise before laying the laminate. Finish off with screwing the skirting boards on because if you decide to change the floor at some point, you can easily screw them off. If you nail them on or glue them, they'll break when you try to remove them.

Give it a try yourself and take your time. All you need is a pencil, tape measure, and a jigsaw. Plan out which way the boards are going to be laid, measure to make sure you don't end up with a sliver of board on the last row (adjust the first row to counteract this). Throw on some music and away you go. Honestly, it is quite easy to do.

As for laying a new floor on top of old, don't do it as most doors supplied by builders are not solid wood doors. They have a wood frame but are effectively cardboard in their core. They usually only allow a max of 4mm to be shaved off the ends of the door. Laying 12mm laminate on top of old may mean new doors as you won't be able to shave the old ones down enough.!!! Plus laying laminate on top of old may give you squeaky floors as they grind together. The feel of a laminate floor is all down to the underlay you use. The white stuff is useless but a good thick underlay will make the laminate feel and sound like solid wood when you walk on it.

Muahahaha

Thanks for the tips D13Exile, especially on shaving the doors down- you were right- they are cheapo hollow core doors so not much to be shaved off them. Think I'll just go ahead and get it taken up altogether and be done with it. Not going to lay the new floor myself as it is part of a larger renovation with a carpenter on site anyway. Im sure I could do it but I couldnt do it as well as they will with no visible joins, cleans edges and lines, etc

Had just been researching underlay -do you have any recommendations for specs or brands? The flooring companies seem to sell a lot of unbranded stuff which probably gives them the highest margins but isnt a good product.

Also Im going to insulate the floor while the old one is up. Plan is to go with 50mm Xtratherm boards- would using these negate the need for underlay altogether or is it still needed?

GreeBo

Any company that outsources installation, be that floors, windows, whatever means the guys want to get in and out to the next job asap.
If you want quality then you are probably better off with a place that employs their own fitters.

D13exile

Muahahaha wrote: »

Thanks for the tips D13Exile, especially on shaving the doors down- you were right- they are cheapo hollow core doors so not much to be shaved off them. Think I'll just go ahead and get it taken up altogether and be done with it. Not going to lay the new floor myself as it is part of a larger renovation with a carpenter on site anyway. Im sure I could do it but I couldnt do it as well as they will with no visible joins, cleans edges and lines, etc

Had just been researching underlay -do you have any recommendations for specs or brands? The flooring companies seem to sell a lot of unbranded stuff which probably gives them the highest margins but isnt a good product.

Also Im going to insulate the floor while the old one is up. Plan is to go with 50mm Xtratherm boards- would using these negate the need for underlay altogether or is it still needed?

I always use the green wood fibre boards from B&Q as underlay. Been using them for years and they still do their job of supporting the laminate while keeping the cold down even after 12 years.

As for the xtratherm, that is used between floorboards when the house is built over a void. It wouldn't be used as an underlay for laminate though. I've used it in my attic to insulate the walls and between the joists but it would not be suitable as an underlay, due to its thickness and especially as it'd break down with weight being directly applied to it by furniture and walking on it. Its not a load bearing substance. So that idea is a non starter.

GreeBo

^ op is asking if they still need underlay if they also have insulated floors...
Op underlay helps with sound insulation but also makes the floor softer to walk on, so yep, I'd still use a good underlay even on an insulated floor.

D13exile

GreeBo wrote: »

^ op is asking if they still need underlay if they also have insulated floors...
Op underlay helps with sound insulation but also makes the floor softer to walk on, so yep, I'd still use a good underlay even on an insulated floor.

My apologies. I misunderstood the OP. Thought he wanted to use the xtratherm as underlay!!. I agree with Greebo, even if your subfloor is insulated, a good quality underlay will have many benefits including making the floor "nicer" to walk on and giving a softer sound.

Muahahaha

Yeah, will still get the underlay so. Product Im thinking of using is this https://www.xtratherm.com/products/xo-uf/ but at the moment I dont know how deep the floor is underneath and whether or not it can take 50mm of insulation then underlay then the laminate floor on top. I know its a concrete floor but have to open it up to see if insulation boards would fit without raising the laminate floor too high.