Reclaim Lough Atalia (wasn't always ridiculous)

yaledo

Stumbled across this in the Connacht Tribune from August 25, 1934.



Was all set to drag up an old thread, but its closed.
Isn't it funny that an idea so completely preposterous to our eyes would have been taken seriously back then.

https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=97563016

Wompa1

yaledo wrote: »

Stumbled across this in the Connacht Tribune from August 25, 1934.



Was all set to drag up an old thread, but its closed.
Isn't it funny that an idea so completely preposterous to our eyes would have been taken seriously back then.

https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=97563016

Apparently, it wasn't a runner back then since they didn't do it.

Personally, I like Lough Atalia the way it is.

Homelander

Wasn't there a thread here before of someone saying they should fill in the bay with gravel and make it a huge car park? Or am I mad.

Harry Palmr

Is this where the lost city of Ataliatis lies?

HitchHiker

"an idea so completely preposterous to our eyes"... Well your eyes. What would be wrong with reclaiming it if it made economic sense and was done with a reasonable degree of smart planning and aesthetics (big ifs admittedly). Extra land around a city centre seems something that should be at least looked at. It seems to work perfectly well for the Dutch!

beardybrewer

Maybe if we got the Dutch in to do it like we got the Spanish in to build our motorway. I wouldn't trust our lot to do it right or even be granted permission to do it. It was an interesting point made in the traffic thread that there is an older hold-fast group who remember old Galway as a sleepy town who will actively fight to keep Galway from turning into a city. They'll keep fighting everything until their way is over and that's still decades away. So buckle in.

HitchHiker

Weren't large parts of Salthill, Grattan, the Claddagh reclaimed during the ~1950's? And probably explains in part the perennial flooding issues in those parts of town. But nonetheless an overall success? I wonder how Lough Atalia survived when it looks (and I'm no civil engineer) an easier project since it's not exposed to the sea on all sides. Anyway it doesn't matter, you're right in saying major infrastructural projects get held up and delayed forever (e.g. the ring-road)!

Considering there are counties regularly reclaiming land from the sea I fail to see how the far easier task of reclaiming Lough Atalia is so ridiculous.

Mrs OBumble

In light of global climate change and rising sea level, countries have stopped building on the existing coastline and are actively planning to move things inland.

ChewyLouie

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

In light of global climate change and rising sea level, countries have stopped building on the existing coastline and are actively planning to move things inland.

This and there may be future requirements to protect the city with a storm surge barrier in the bay and Lough Atalia could prove vital as a pool for water coming down the Corrib when closed during high tides.

But I don't know if a surge barrier is being discussed yet...

HitchHiker

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

In light of global climate change and rising sea level, countries have stopped building on the existing coastline and are actively planning to move things inland.

Source or reference for this? I think to use the example of the Netherlands again, land reclamation on the coast is still a thing (e.g. Marker Wadden, and also Hong Kong, Singapore)?!

what_traffic

Proposed Galway Port Developent which is literally a stones throw away from Lough Atalia had plans to reclaim approx. 27 ha from the foreshore and sea bed.
http://www.galwayharbourextension.com/
Doubt very much it will go ahead based on money flowing into Tier 1 Port Foynes(roads and port)- but another example proposed for Galway City.

what_traffic

Homelander wrote: »

Wasn't there a thread here before of someone saying they should fill in the bay with gravel and make it a huge car park? Or am I mad.

No your not mad - that kite was flown.

Mr Man

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

In light of global climate change and rising sea level, countries have stopped building on the existing coastline and are actively planning to move things inland.

Balderdash.

Reclamation projects are an ideal opportunity to build the necessary sea walls for future sea levels. This is in fact one of the main selling points of the proposed Sandymount reclamation project.

Personally, I think Lough Atalia should not be reclaimed and should be enhanced to make use of its vastly underused amenity value. I'm amazed that you never see anyone sailing, swimming or canoeing on it.

Snow Garden

ChewyLouie wrote: »

This and there may be future requirements to protect the city with a storm surge barrier in the bay and Lough Atalia could prove vital as a pool for water coming down the Corrib when closed during high tides.

I am trying to following your logic. What does the bit in bold mean? The Corrib does not flow into Lough Atalia? What exactly is closed during high tides?

The Davestator

Every time I've heard Lough Atalia on traffic reports for my whole life, I thought it was one word.

Until this morning!

Snow Garden

The traffic around the Docks and City Centre will be so bad when Bonham Quay is completed that motorists will be willingly driving into Lough Atalia just to escape it.
That should start the reclamation works.

ChewyLouie

Snow Garden wrote: »

I am trying to following your logic. What does the bit in bold mean? The Corrib does not flow into Lough Atalia? What exactly is closed during high tides?

With rising sea levels a lot of cities are considering (or building) storm surge barriers as there will be much less capacity on sea walls, piers etc to handle a storm surge. For example, in a couple of decades a regular high tide may be tipping over the edge at the Spanish arch... when you get a large spring tide or a storm surge coming in the bay, you'll have much worse flooding than we've seen.

To protect against this, we could build a storm surge barrier to block off the bay during these high tide events. There is an added challenge for cities that have a river flowing through them into the sea, this water needs to go somewhere when the path to the sea is blocked... some cities will dedicate floodable land for this. Galway is lucky to have a lot of capacity in Lough Atalia for this, Lough Atalia already fills with the incoming tide.

So the idea would be close the barrier from the low tide before the surge or spring tide until the surge recedes on the next low tide. In the meantime, the Corrib will naturally flow into Lough Atalia, then drain out when the barriers are reopened.

EDIT: A few illustrations... (position of barrier just for demonstration, but probably cheapest location).

Coming up to low tide at 8am. River flowing as normal, barrier is open. Major surge expected later that day.


Barrier is then closed on low tide, holding the surge due at 2pm back from the city. Meanwhile the Corrib can't flow past the barrier and naturally floods into Lough Atalia (like the high tide does every day).


The city escapes unscathed and the barrier is opened again at low tide around 8pm. Lough Atalia drains out and the Corrib can flow as normal.


Might sound extreme to some but we do need to start planning for more extreme weather events and an increase in sea level!

Snow Garden

ChewyLouie wrote: »

With rising sea levels a lot of cities are considering (or building) storm surge barriers...

Yes I have it now. When you said "storm surge barrier in the bay", I wasn't exactly sure where or what you were building or whether it would be a completely watertight. You're essentially talking about a Thames Barrier type construction at the mouth of the Corrib. The Corrib is the 2nd largest river by flow in Ireland - in winter flood conditions (all weir gates open), it could fill Lough Atalia fairly fast. Has anyone done the metrics on this?

Look at the difference 1 summer month can make on Corrib water levels: https://waterlevel.ie/0000030098/0001/summary/

ChewyLouie

True, in full flow the Corrib would fill Lough Atalia fairly quickly. Based on quick calculations, with the river running at 105 cubic meters per second it would result in a 1m rise in the current footprint of Lough Atalia (~396400 square m) in just over an hour. I don't know what the current tidal range is in Lough Atalia but I think it could handle a couple of meters, and that's also just taking the current footprint, not counting the grass areas on the Renmore side which could be easily flooded too.

Combine that with holding back the river a bit for a few hours at the Salmon Weir and you could reduce the flow enough to handle the volume. There is also the area at the mouth of the corrib (between Spanish Arch and the barrier) to fill. You could also plan to fully drain LA for these events, even at low tide it only drains to a certain depth as there is a higher point where it flows out.

Also the barrier could be built further out.

We also only need to hold the flow for a max of around 6hrs between tides.

Just pointing out that Lough Atalia gives us more options for future planning for these upcoming events.

Snow Garden

ChewyLouie wrote: »

True, in full flow the Corrib would fill Lough Atalia fairly quickly. Based on quick calculations, with the river running at 105 cubic meters per second it would result in a 1m rise in the current footprint of Lough Atalia (~396400 square m) in just over an hour. I don't know what the current tidal range is in Lough Atalia but I think it could handle a couple of meters, and that's also just taking the current footprint, not counting the grass areas on the Renmore side which could be easily flooded too.

Combine that with holding back the river a bit for a few hours at the Salmon Weir and you could reduce the flow enough to handle the volume. There is also the area at the mouth of the corrib (between Spanish Arch and the barrier) to fill. You could also plan to fully drain LA for these events, even at low tide it only drains to a certain depth as there is a higher point where it flows out.

Also the barrier could be built further out.

We also only need to hold the flow for a max of around 6hrs between tides.

Just pointing out that Lough Atalia gives us more options for future planning for these upcoming events.

It's an interesting one. I don't think the barrier could be built any further out though. Not sure that closing some gates in the Salmon Weir could really benefit for long. The basin beside the Long Walk would take a certain amount of water alright. Have the council ever looked at this seriously? The cost would be immense especially considering it's a fairly busy port.

zell12

T'was like this in the '60s