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Shannon radar down again.

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Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 125 ✭✭ecowise


    Perhaps its time to go solid state - no tubes to fail and built in component redundancy!


  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 4,466 Mod ✭✭✭✭mickger844posts


    Still down this morning. Totally unreliable and needs replacing asap.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,776 ✭✭✭Joe Public


    Sign of bad weather coming


  • Registered Users Posts: 10,013 ✭✭✭✭Oscar Bravo


    1219 update

    The Radar is still under service as of 30th October with no current date for resumption of service.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,776 ✭✭✭Joe Public


    1219 update

    The Radar is still under service as of 30th October with no current date for resumption of service.


    What year?


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  • Registered Users Posts: 6,235 ✭✭✭Oneiric 3


    The Shannon radar can go to hell for all I care, it was just as useless for my region when 'operating' as when it is not. Showing rain when there isn't any, and none, or the lightest blue, when rivers are running down streets.

    As an aside. I just recently purchased a manual rain gauge similar to this one from 'CLIMET':

    RG.jpg?height=319&width=320

    Pretty cheap and pretty flimsy, but apparently quite accurate and plan on setting it up at the start of next year. Although I have a Davis weather station, I have come not to trust the rain readings as they always under record. Always suspected this by comparing measurements in a humble mug place near it (always by between about 10% to 20%) but confirmed by the recent introduction of a nearby Met Eireann station located about 2 miles away. So from next year on, any rain totals I will be reporting on here will be from this new, simple gauge rather than from the overly expensive Davis one.

    New Moon



  • Registered Users Posts: 125 ✭✭ecowise


    Oneiric 3 wrote: »



    Although I have a Davis weather station, I have come not to trust the rain readings as they always under record. Always suspected this by comparing measurements in a humble mug place near it (always by between about 10% to 20%) but confirmed by the recent introduction of a nearby Met Eireann station located about 2 miles away. So from next year on, any rain totals I will be reporting on here will be from this new, simple gauge rather than from the overly expensive Davis one.


    Good idea. I keep a manual gauge also and use it to calibrate my Davis WS.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 321 ✭✭171170


    Update: 30th October 2019

    The Shannon Airport Rainfall Radar remains under service. There may be intermittent coverage available while certain units of the radar are under test, please note they may not be an accurate radar image. Repairs are ongoing but we have no current date for resumption of Radar service.

    https://www.met.ie/shannon-airport-rainfall-radar


  • Registered Users Posts: 20,313 ✭✭✭✭Rikand


    We must be the laughing stock of Europe with our antiquated setup

    2 new radars needed at least and stick em on valentia island/sherkin island and belmullet

    And if they have to be at airports, then Kerry/cork airport and knock. At least it will give us more coverage from where most of our weather comes from.


    How much would one of those weather radars cost ? Several million each I presume considering how few we have ?


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,675 ✭✭✭ronnie3585


    Rikand wrote: »
    We must be the laughing stock of Europe with our antiquated setup

    Is the service that much better in Europe?

    I travel quite a bit and I always look for the in-country rain radar whenever I'm abroad. My experience in Europe is that the majority of rain radars I've found have been absolutely crap, with most having a 16 bit-esque interface/15 minute updates.

    Leaving aside the reliability issue, which is terrible, I find ME's interface and 5 minute updates very good (Netweather's even better).


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  • Registered Users Posts: 125 ✭✭ecowise


    ronnie3585 wrote: »
    Is the service that much better in Europe?

    I travel quite a bit and I always look for the in-country rain radar whenever I'm abroad. My experience in Europe is that the majority of rain radars I've found have been absolutely crap, with most having a 16 bit-esque interface/15 minute updates.

    Leaving aside the reliability issue, which is terrible, I find ME's interface and 5 minute updates very good (Netweather's even better).


    Please don't conflate the quality of the interface with whether the radar is working or not. In terms of the update interval this should be user selectable as different users have different needs. Generally with Irish type weather I prefer longer intervals, such as 15 min, but when there are rapidly evolving conditions such as continental thunderstorms 5 min interval might be more appropriate. But either way you have to have a working radar in the first place and in that regard Shannon is not up to scratch.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,194 ✭✭✭foxy farmer


    Looks like the Dublin radar is out too. Netweather shows returns from Belfast and UK only with last 2 hrs.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,764 ✭✭✭Bsal


    From my recent observations it seems that netweather doesn't use Dublin's radar data, everytime Shannon goes down you can see the loss of coverage on netweather's network in the SW of Ireland because no Dublin data is displayed. They must think the coverage overlap between Shannon, Belfast and the radar on the west coast of Wales is enough.

    d457a8f02534a4e9aa88c87a748f1bed.png

    1ed93469db3757f8d101b93cde7afc03.png


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,764 ✭✭✭Bsal


    It appears the UK met office doesn't use Dublin's radar either, it's been annoying me for a while but since Shannon is broken so often now the lack of Dublin really shows

    ea1a444cc050736b6ecc4c269bf0942c.png


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,431 ✭✭✭Mortelaro


    Oneiric 3 wrote: »
    The Shannon radar can go to hell for all I care, it was just as useless for my region when 'operating' as when it is not. Showing rain when there isn't any, and none, or the lightest blue, when rivers are running down streets.

    As an aside. I just recently purchased a manual rain gauge similar to this one from 'CLIMET':

    RG.jpg?height=319&width=320

    Pretty cheap and pretty flimsy, but apparently quite accurate and plan on setting it up at the start of next year. Although I have a Davis weather station, I have come not to trust the rain readings as they always under record. Always suspected this by comparing measurements in a humble mug place near it (always by between about 10% to 20%) but confirmed by the recent introduction of a nearby Met Eireann station located about 2 miles away. So from next year on, any rain totals I will be reporting on here will be from this new, simple gauge rather than from the overly expensive Davis one.

    2 miles Oneiric can have big variations though
    I've an old met Éireann gauge alongside my Davis and readings are pretty much the same
    I understand Danno also has this down in Durrow so should be able to concur or not


  • Registered Users Posts: 125 ✭✭ecowise


    Mortelaro wrote: »
    2 miles Oneiric can have big variations though
    I've an old met Éireann gauge alongside my Davis and readings are pretty much the same
    I understand Danno also has this down in Durrow so should be able to concur or not


    My data in mm for Davis VP2 and TFA manual rain gauge in west Waterford:


    VP2--- Rain gauge
    2017 1015.7 1043.1
    2018 1112.3 1128.9


    Collectors are about 40 m apart and I re calibrate the VP2 during the year if I notice a significant difference in any period.


  • Registered Users Posts: 15,781 ✭✭✭✭Discodog


    I am going to write to the Minister & some of the West's TDs. It might not make a difference but it can't do any harm.


  • Registered Users Posts: 265 ✭✭sumtings


    Discodog wrote: »
    I am going to write to the Minister & some of the West's TDs. It might not make a difference but it can't do any harm.

    Think I will myself, wonder how farmers would feel if it was silage time.


  • Registered Users Posts: 15,781 ✭✭✭✭Discodog


    sumtings wrote: »
    Think I will myself, wonder how farmers would feel if it was silage time.

    It makes me wonder how many people use the radar. I do several times a day & it's essential for my business.


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,913 ✭✭✭Danno


    Mortelaro wrote: »
    2 miles Oneiric can have big variations though
    I've an old met Éireann gauge alongside my Davis and readings are pretty much the same
    I understand Danno also has this down in Durrow so should be able to concur or not

    Which type of tipper is in the bucket Oneiric?

    Is it A - classic:

    davis-vantage-pro-pro2-rain-tipping-bucket-7342-038

    or is it B - single spoon:

    Davis_7345_425-510x510.jpg

    Secondly, is the gauge up in the air around 4ft off the ground or is it separated from the integrated suite and at it's own height above grass level?

    I recently replaced tipper A with B and the accuracy is very good. Beforehand using A there were wild swings of 10%-20% One day under recording, others - over recording.

    With the new tipper it has been much less variable and in fact recently it has been fairly bang on with totals between 3mm and 10mm

    Keep in mind that my gauge is at ground level pretty much beside the manual Met Eireann gauge.

    I have heard that people using the plastic ones above that you've shown are quite good - do you have a link to where one could be purchased, might try one if the price is right and compare it to the Met Eireann manual gauge.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 6,675 ✭✭✭ronnie3585


    Yesterday’s update;
    The Shannon Airport Rainfall Radar remains under service. Repairs are ongoing but we have no current date for resumption of Radar service


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,149 ✭✭✭PukkaStukka


    To be fair to them, I'd have imagined Met Eireann would've had this matter long sorted by now if it was a straightforward issue. I've no doubt either that they too are feeling the effects of this outage.


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,235 ✭✭✭Oneiric 3


    Thanks for the tips Mortelaro & Danno.

    @Danno, I got the manual gauge from here:

    https://www.climemet.com/collections/rain-gauges/products/cm1016-professional-manual-rain-gauge

    Received it a couple of weeks ago. Reviews claim it is pretty accurate, which I do not doubt, but having taken it out of the box and jigsawing the various parts together, I can confirm that it isn't a great quality gauge (materially) in that it is quite flimsy.

    My issues: Bottom inner tube holder is not deep enough to keep the inner tube standing straight of its own accord. Has to be held in place by the lid/funnel, which in itself is a very loose fit round the top outer rim. Will have to get some velcro straps or something to stop the funnel lid from blowing off in breezy conditions once I get it set up.

    If I wasn't such a lazy fecker, I'd have put it to the test this morning given the perfect conditions to do such a test. (steady stratiform rain). Will check the forecast later to see if there is any rain forecast for tomorrow and if so, maybe I'll test it then and report back here the results.

    The tipper in my Davis is the older, classic 'double spoon' type. Was not aware of the newer 'single spoon' version! and might invest in one come in the new year. A quick googles tells me it reads on 0.2mm increments as opposed to the 0.3mm/0.2mm in every second increment of the double spoon. Did you have to make adjustments/calibrations on the Davis console itself to allow for this?, or is it just a 'straight out the box' set up?

    New Moon



  • Registered Users Posts: 9,350 ✭✭✭irishgeo


    To be fair to them, I'd have imagined Met Eireann would've had this matter long sorted by now if it was a straightforward issue. I've no doubt either that they too are feeling the effects of this outage.

    what if a storm was coming and it was down.


  • Registered Users Posts: 15,781 ✭✭✭✭Discodog


    To be fair to them, I'd have imagined Met Eireann would've had this matter long sorted by now if it was a straightforward issue. I've no doubt either that they too are feeling the effects of this outage.

    I have written to the Minister & several Western TD's. There needs to be a proper enquiry as to the condition of the radar & what provision there is to replace it.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,671 ✭✭✭Rougies


    Discodog wrote: »
    I have written to the Minister & several Western TD's. There needs to be a proper enquiry as to the condition of the radar & what provision there is to replace it.

    There is a plan to upgrade and expand the weather radar coverage in Ireland. There's not much info online but if you dig a little you can find snippets of info. Not sure if the total replacement of Shannon radar is on the cards though it might.
    Met Éireann is planning to upgrade and modernise the national weather radar network over the coming years in order to enhance the quality and reliability of meteorological and hydrological services provided to the Irish public.

    https://irl.eu-supply.com/app/rfq/publicpurchase.asp?PID=146833&HL=0&PS=1&PP=transactions.asp
    Met Éireann has two relevant projects/work programmes. Firstly, around 60 new automatic weather stations are being installed to augment the 25 real-time raingauges currently in place. Secondly, a project to extend and modernise the weather radar network for Ireland has recently commenced.

    http://engineersireland.ie/EngineersIreland/media/docs/State-of-Ireland-2019.pdf

    I think I remember reading €6 million was being invested into the radar upgrade, but can't find that link now. it was definitely a few million anyway if not 6.


  • Registered Users Posts: 9,900 ✭✭✭spookwoman


    irishgeo wrote: »
    what if a storm was coming and it was down.
    There has been 2 weather warnings during the downtime, the one at the start of august and this one.

    Ref the upgrade if you hunt back to the time when they has to replace parts around the 13th there is a note on the bottom of the post
    (Update on longer term planning: Met Éireann is in the development stage of a major programme to modernise and expand the weather radar network of Ireland in order to meet the State’s needs to 2040).

    Here is a report from 2013 about the system that's in place which shows Shannon is not fit for purpose.

    http://edepositireland.ie/bitstream/handle/2262/70547/Technical%20Note%20No.%2062.pdf?sequence=1&isAllowed=y


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,149 ✭✭✭PukkaStukka


    irishgeo wrote: »
    what if a storm was coming and it was down.

    Other forecastimg models will give plenty on advance warning of incoming weather. All the rainfall radar gives is realtime rainfall data within its service area.


  • Registered Users Posts: 15,781 ✭✭✭✭Discodog


    spookwoman wrote: »
    There has been 2 weather warnings during the downtime, the one at the start of august and this one.

    Ref the upgrade if you hunt back to the time when they has to replace parts around the 13th there is a note on the bottom of the post
    (Update on longer term planning: Met reann is in the development stage of a major programme to modernise and expand the weather radar network of Ireland in order to meet the State’s needs to 2040).

    Here is a report from 2013 about the system that's in place which shows Shannon is not fit for purpose.

    http://edepositireland.ie/bitstream/handle/2262/70547/Technical%20Note%20No.%2062.pdf?sequence=1&isAllowed=y

    It's the classic situation with lots of hints but nothing concrete. ME need to be pushed into getting the radar permanently sorted. To his credit Eamon O Cuiv responded quickly & has said that he will raise it with the Minister.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,785 ✭✭✭piuswal


    Discodog wrote: »
    It's the classic situation with lots of hints but nothing concrete. ME need to be pushed into getting the radar permanently sorted. To his credit Eamon O Cuiv responded quickly & has said that he will raise it with the Minister.

    How far down the list do you think Met Eireann comes with budgetary allocations?

    Eoghan Murphy is Minister!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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