Irish Language

DEFTLEFTHAND

I was over in Corr na Mona, Co. Galway the last few days. A Gaeltacht region in Connemara.

I hadn't brushed up on Irish since school but I found it all flooding back to me when in that environment. From the dark recesses of my mind


Immersion is the only way to become fluent in a language. The classroom will only get you so far.


The way children are taught in Ireland needs to change. Maybe mandatory spells in the Gaeltacht need to be introduced.

Greyfox

DEFTLEFTHAND wrote: »

I was over in Corr na Mona, Co. Galway the last few days. A Gaeltacht region in Connemara.

If feels like the other Irish language thread only went away last week

DEFTLEFTHAND

DEFTLEFTHAND wrote: »

The way children are taught in Ireland needs to change. Maybe mandatory spells in the Gaeltacht need to be introduced.

I've been hearing this all my life, but I learned Irish only in school (neither parent spoke Irish at that time), and somehow became fluent. I know plenty of people -- even someone who has written a book in Irish -- who only learned it in school. You yourself have found yourself surprised with how much Irish you have retained, although you presumably don't use it. Doesn't that say something positive?

The oral & aural stages comprise 40% of the Leaving Cert grade, which is probably as high as it should be, for a language which still requires writing skill, and is after all also taught as a literary course.

I strongly disagree with mandatory transportation of children to the Gaeltacht too -- how long would they have to spend there, for it to make a difference? Maybe a year. And any kind of regime which involves taking away children from their homes by the heavy hand of the law has rarely ever inspired enthusiasm and goodwill, which you need to have to learn a language.

You will get kids to love Irish by making it exciting and interesting, which it is. A dogmatic and intimidatory aura surrounding Irish is what is absolutely killing the language, although I reckon things are improving on that front, with contemporary teaching methods.

freshpopcorn

DEFTLEFTHAND wrote: »

The way children are taught in Ireland needs to change. Maybe mandatory spells in the Gaeltacht need to be introduced.

Yes because forcing people into something always gets good results!

The Alpha

DEFTLEFTHAND wrote: »

I was over in Corr na Mona, Co. Galway the last few days. A Gaeltacht region in Connemara.

I hadn't brushed up on Irish since school but I found it all flooding back to me when in that environment. From the dark recesses of my mind


Immersion is the only way to become fluent in a language. The classroom will only get you so far.


The way children are taught in Ireland needs to change. Maybe mandatory spells in the Gaeltacht need to be introduced.

Ok what is the practical reason for this stupid language that 5 people in the world use.

How about spanish, french or chinese? No let's waste our time on a useless language which barely has any use in Ireland, nevermind the world.

Edgware

The Alpha wrote: »

Ok what is the practical reason for this stupid language that 5 people in the world use.

How about spanish, french or chinese? No let's waste our time on a useless language which barely has any use in Ireland, nevermind the world.

Well you would be able to talk ****e in Irish with DEFTLEFTHAND

DEFTLEFTHAND

The Alpha wrote: »

Ok what is the practical reason for this stupid language that 5 people in the world use.

How about spanish, french or chinese? No let's waste our time on a useless language which barely has any use in Ireland, nevermind the world.

To preserve it for future generations.

Whether we like it or not, it's a huge part of our identity.

The Alpha

DEFTLEFTHAND wrote: »

To preserve it for future generations.

Whether we like it or not, it's a huge part of our identity.

So for vanity reasons? I prefer practical reasons myself. Life is too short to waste on things that do no matter, the time that would spent to learn a language which has no practical use, I would rather learn Spanish and then I can go to Spain, most of South and Central America and be able to communicate there. That would be useful, not a language that barely anyone speaks. If you have so much time in your life then go ahead and waste it. I'm sure the "identity" you will achieve will be very useful in your life. I cannot wait for the AI to take over so the stupidity like this is finished.

khalessi

Maybe have full immersion for junior and senior infants in all schools would help.

Stop moaning ffs

Here comes the bots

Jan Blanch downcow Rob.

Just wait.

branie2

Mandatory spells in the Gaeltacht - like a boarding school, perhaps?

Insect Overlord

The Alpha wrote: »

Ok what is the practical reason for this stupid language that 5 people in the world use.

How about spanish, french or chinese? No let's waste our time on a useless language which barely has any use in Ireland, nevermind the world.

And how much Chinese do you speak yourself, a chara?

Father Hernandez

The Alpha wrote: »

Ok what is the practical reason for this stupid language that 5 people in the world use.

How about spanish, french or chinese? No let's waste our time on a useless language which barely has any use in Ireland, nevermind the world.

Have you a source for this fact?

The Alpha

Father Hernandez wrote: »

Have you a source for this fact?

Definitely, cannot post links yet though. A quick google search will give you the answers.

Father Hernandez

The Alpha wrote: »

Definitely, cannot post links yet though. A quick google search will give you the answers.

Done that.

73,803

Claimed number of Irish speakers

According to the 2016 Republic of Ireland census 73,803 people speak the Irish language daily in the Republic of Ireland outside the education system including 20,586 people who speak it every day in the Gaeltacht outside the education system.

More than 5?

An tUasal C

I went through English medium primary and secondary education and speak Irish well.

People’s attitudes are mostly what shape their level of Irish. Having done my Leaving Cert this year, the vast majority of the higher level class had a love for Irish and a high command whereas most of the ordinary level students, although not all, would be of the same opinion of ‘The Alpha’.

It’s not fair to solely blame the education system. There are those of us who leave it with Irish and desiring to continue speaking it.

The Alpha

Father Hernandez wrote: »

Done that.

73,803

Claimed number of Irish speakers

According to the 2016 Republic of Ireland census 73,803 people speak the Irish language daily in the Republic of Ireland outside the education system including 20,586 people who speak it every day in the Gaeltacht outside the education system.

More than 5?

Do you take everything in life so literally? 70k is nothing in the grand scheme of things.
Spanish: 400 million speakers.

What is more useful?

The Alpha

An tUasal C wrote: »

I went through English medium primary and secondary education and speak Irish well.

People’s attitudes are mostly what shape their level of Irish. Having done my Leaving Cert this year, the vast majority of the higher level class had a love for Irish and a high command whereas most of the ordinary level students, although not all, would be of the same opinion of ‘The Alpha’.

It’s not fair to solely blame the education system. There are those of us who leave it with Irish and desiring to continue speaking it.

People put more effort into something that interests them. What a surprise.

An tUasal C

The Alpha wrote: »

Do you take everything in life so literally? 70k is nothing in the grand scheme of things.
Spanish: 400 million speakers.

What is more useful?

Irish would be more useful in Ireland, with over 180,000 people speaking it daily or weekly according to the CSO.

The Alpha

An tUasal C wrote: »

Irish would be more useful in Ireland, with over 180,000 people speaking it daily or weekly according to the CSO.

And most people that can speak Irish also speak English so it is useless. Or are you going to cater to the 0.01% shouldn't they cater to you?

An tUasal C

The Alpha wrote: »

And most people that can speak Irish also speak English so it is useless. Or are you going to cater to the 0.01% shouldn't they cater to you?

Most people that speak Luxembourgish also speak French, should Luxembourg drop their national language too? And Wales? I don’t think so.

Why should they have to cater to me, Irish is the first official language of this state. They’re more than entitled to speak it, I’m in no position to stop them.

Father Hernandez

The Alpha wrote: »

Do you take everything in life so literally? 70k is nothing in the grand scheme of things.
Spanish: 400 million speakers.

What is more useful?

I certainly don't but you made a false claim.

Isn't French, Spanish and German already taught in Irish schools?

Although far from a native Irish speaker, it's an important part of our heritage and culture and feel it should be taught.

There is still indigenous languages in South America as you previously mentioned, some not taught for other reasons but still important part of culture.

The Alpha

An tUasal C wrote: »

Most people that speak Luxembourgish also speak French, should Luxembourg drop their national language too? And Wales? I don’t think so.

Why should they have to cater to me, Irish is the first official language of this state. They’re more than entitled to speak it, I’m in no position to stop them.

Ignore them and they will adapt to the new world order. Survival of the fittest, if they want to speak, let them. Natural selection will sort this out.

robman60

An tUasal C wrote: »

I went through English medium primary and secondary education and speak Irish well.

People’s attitudes are mostly what shape their level of Irish. Having done my Leaving Cert this year, the vast majority of the higher level class had a love for Irish and a high command whereas most of the ordinary level students, although not all, would be of the same opinion of ‘The Alpha’.

It’s not fair to solely blame the education system. There are those of us who leave it with Irish and desiring to continue speaking it.

This. I'm always amused at these feckin eejits who say we should all be learning Chinese when they don't even have a single word of French after their six years in school.

I think it's an excuse made by the lazy or the dumb, who try to say they're only bad at Irish because it is of low economic utility.

Is aoibhinn liom Gaeilge agus laibhríom í le mo thuismitheori gach uile lá, cé go bhfuil Béarla ár dteanga máithreach.

JohnnyFlash

I'm a native Irish speaker, and retain a deep love of the language even though I don't speak it everyday due to living in Dublin. My two young fellas would be as good as fluent though. There's certainly challenges with how the language is taught, but the main threat to the 'working status' of the language is the fact that less and less families are speaking it daily in Galway. The other Gaeltacht areas are that in name only to be honest.

The answer to this problem certainly won't come from policy around the language being dictated by the bores and knob holes from the Colaiste Eoin - UCD Irish Department route. Very serious young men immersed in the dirge of Irish Nationalism with a fetish for the romantic ideal of the 'True Gael'. Always reminds me of the inspector in An Béal Bocht arriving down to see how the natives live. Even worse if they've one of those ham-fisted attempts to convert their planter surname into Irish.

Paddy Cow

I'm Irish. I love being Irish and while sometimes I wish we spoke Irish as our national language, I think it's time we recognised that Irish is pretty much a dead language. Yes there are people who speak it on a daily basis but they are the minority and growing fewer with each generation. My father grew up with Irish as his first language but my mother only had school Irish. We spoke English in my house.

The reason why Irish has never had a revival is simply because we can't be arsed. It's easier to speak English and most countries who have their own language will also have English. We can criticise the education system (and it is pretty ineffective) but outside of school or the Gaeltacht, there is no need to speak Irish, so we don't make the effort. We're flogging a dead horse at this stage and I personally think it's time to let go of the past.

There are huge amounts of resources spent making sure everything is in English/Irish and it's a waste. Putting pressure on LC kids to do well in Irish (a language most of them will never use after they finish their exam) is a waste. We can't change the past. Whether people like it or not, we are now an English speaking country. It's a bitter pill to swallow but the Irish language will never be revived and forcing kids to "learn" it for 14 years is just a waste of resources.

corelokttikka

Paddy Cow wrote: »

I'm Irish. I love being Irish and while sometimes I wish we spoke Irish as our national language, I think it's time we recognised that Irish is pretty much a dead language. Yes there are people who speak it on a daily basis but they are the minority and growing fewer with each generation. My father grew up with Irish as his first language but my mother only had school Irish. We spoke English in my house.

The organisation from the top down and the want to bring the language back on par at least with the English language is not there ( this is the nicest way to put it online). There is no reason why Gael scoileanna and colaiste can't be rolled out instead of english speaking schools and over a period of time replace all english speaking schools. The english language would still be taught. Drop all other languages ie french and German There are foreigners learning our language FFS. We are a joke of a nation regarding the language. We are just a province of the UK/ USA.
My own opinion and experience is that it's quite easy for children to learn the language once they are immersed in the correct environment.
The politicians want to kill it off. The Gaeltacht areas are in the arse hole of nowhere, no population, no money, no jobs etc etc, basically pushed into the ocean. Look how the Welsh language was revived, they brought it into the city centres, population increase, money, day to day business etc
What has the ombudsman done ????
Money wasted.....

Badly Drunk Boy

The Alpha wrote: »

Do you take everything in life so literally? 70k is nothing in the grand scheme of things.
Spanish: 400 million speakers.

What is more useful?

Learning Spanish is only handy if you're going to places where it's spoken. In my 46 years, I've spent 5 days in a place were Spanish was widely spoken. And just because there are over a billion Chinese people in the world doesn't mean that I will ever have to speak to any of them in Chinese.

You'll probably say that I'm limiting my options by ruling out these other places by not knowing the language, but what if I don't have any intention of ever visiting them?

Captain Havoc

People speak Irish, get over it. If you don't want to speak Irish just don't try. Why does it matter if only 73,000 people speak Irish? I watched the Tour de France on TG4 this week, I got my head around that it's not available on terrestrial telly in English. It's an indigenous language which people have a right to speak, we're one of many bilingual countries in the world.

Pinch Flat

Is maith liom cáca milis

JohnnyFlash

Captain Havoc wrote: »

People speak Irish, get over it. If you don't want to speak Irish just don't try. Why does it matter if only 73,000 people speak Irish? I watched the Tour de France on TG4 this week, I got my head around that it's not available on terrestrial telly in English. It's an indigenous language which people have a right to speak, we're one of many bilingual countries in the world.

TG4 was a great idea. It’s a top class channel, and yet another reason why people should be made pay for a public service broadcaster.

spurious

Twenty euro per Irish word you can remember would be an interesting test.

Greyfox

JohnnyFlash wrote: »

TG4 was a great idea. It’s a top class channel, and yet another reason why people should be made pay for a public service broadcaster.

We shouldnt be made to pay for a public service broadcaster, forcing people to spend money on things they dont use is never a good idea.

khalessi

Greyfox wrote: »

We shouldnt be made to pay for a public service broadcaster, forcing people to spend money on things they dont use is never a good idea.

True but luckily TG4 is a free-to-air channel, available across all the viewing platforms, with a strong viewer base throughout the island of Ireland. An average of 650,000 viewers a day watch TG4 in the Republic of Ireland. This daily figure exceeds 1 million people on major viewing days like Christmas Day and St. Patrick’s Day.

not bad considering that the total TV Licence sales for 2017 were 1,027,596 –

touts

Irish is a dead language kept on expensive life support by a lobby group powerful way beyond their numbers. Some students leave school with a love of Irish. I suspect an equal number leave school with a hatred for the language. Most leave school simply relieved that they will never have to use it again. After almost a century of compulsion and massive spending the language has never been weaker. 800 years of attempted eradication and genocide by the British did less damage than 80 years of forced learning by the Irish.

Franz Von Peppercorn II

The Alpha wrote: »

Ok what is the practical reason for this stupid language that 5 people in the world use.

How about spanish, french or chinese? No let's waste our time on a useless language which barely has any use in Ireland, nevermind the world.

Were you perhaps dropped on your head as a child, though?

And who is forcing you to learn Irish in Blighty?

The Alpha

Franz Von Peppercorn II wrote: »

Were you perhaps dropped on your head as a child, though?

And who is forcing you to learn Irish in Blighty?

What are you talking about? I think you are mixing me up with the IQ. So who was dropped? I never said anything about forcing.
Here people you see a prime example of the dunning kruger effect.

Franz Von Peppercorn II

As I always say on these threads. Where is the political demand for not teaching Irish in real life? Or shutting down TG4? Or not funding the Gaeltacht. Or taking it out of the constitution.

Franz Von Peppercorn II

The Alpha wrote: »

What are you talking about? I think you are mixing me up with the IQ. So who was dropped? I never said anything about forcing.
Here people you see a prime example of the dunning kruger effect.

If you are going to accuse people of having the dunner Kruger effect you might want to make more sense.

I’ve no idea what “mixing me up with the IQ” means.

The Alpha

robman60 wrote: »

This. I'm always amused at these feckin eejits who say we should all be learning Chinese when they don't even have a single word of French after their six years in school.

I think it's an excuse made by the lazy or the dumb, who try to say they're only bad at Irish because it is of low economic utility.

Is aoibhinn liom Gaeilge agus laibhríom í le mo thuismitheori gach uile lá, cé go bhfuil Béarla ár dteanga máithreach.

Anecdotal evidence. Example of dunning krugger effect. "I'm smart because I want to learn an useless language".
I personally learned French. Unless you can provide proof of this then you are talking out of your arse. How about we see a chart of hierarchy of evidence. Oh what's that? Where is anecdotal evidence? Uh? I cannot seem to find it. But I guess low IQ people like you do not know that they are the dumb ones. No everyone else is dumb but not me for the sole reason that they don't want to learn an useless language.
It's good to know that you're amused, I guess that is the benefit of such IQ.

careless sherpa

The Alpha wrote: »

Ok what is the practical reason for this stupid language that 5 people in the world use.

How about spanish, french or chinese? No let's waste our time on a useless language which barely has any use in Ireland, nevermind the world.

I did French in school but haven't used it since I finished the leaving cert. Waste of time

Franz Von Peppercorn II

The Alpha wrote: »

Anecdotal evidence. Example of dunning krugger effect. "I'm smart because I want to learn an useless language".
I personally learned French. Unless you can provide proof of this then you are talking out of your arse. How about we see a chart of hierarchy of evidence. Oh what's that? Where is anecdotal evidence? Uh? I cannot seem to find it. But I guess low IQ people like you do not know that they are the dumb ones. No everyone else is dumb but not me for the sole reason that they don't want to learn an useless language.
It's good to know that you're amused, I guess that is the benefit of such IQ.

Dude. You’ve got a severe problem with the English language. You can’t write it. Maybe rather than worry if Ireland is teaching Irish or not you should spend more time on the way English and logic is taught in Blighty?

Because it isn’t working.

The Alpha

Franz Von Peppercorn II wrote: »

Dude. You’ve got a severe problem with the English language. You can’t write it. Maybe rather than worry if Ireland is teaching Irish or not you should spend more time on the way English and logic is taught in Blighty?

Because it isn’t working.

This is irrelevant to my argument. Nice red herring. One of the main signs of high IQ for sure.

Stop moaning ffs

These threads crapping on Irish always remind of the quote.

The English invented the language. It took the Irish to show them how to use it.

Not sure who said it but referencing our contribution to literature and the way it’s used as a language. But it is fair and the constant ranting against all things Irish by those claiming to be English speaks to al larger insecurity of the older language and culture next door. That they tried to eradicate and didn’t quite manage it.

bless

Fourier

JohnnyFlash wrote: »

The other Gaeltacht areas are that in name only to be honest.

The Kerry Gaeltacht is about the same strength as the Galway one no? My family's Gaeltacht area in Mayo is very weak, but I always thought Kerry was fairly strong.

Stop moaning ffs

The Alpha wrote: »

This is irrelevant to my argument. Nice red herring. One of the main signs of high IQ for sure.

That’s your third or fourth IQ remark.

Speaks volumes.

Arghus

I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt by assuming he's not a bot - just a common troll.

The Alpha

This is making me a bit more excited than it should...
I doubt there are many more pleasurable things than seeing leprechauns getting red in the face with anger and making your ma jokes.

Arghus

The Alpha wrote: »

This is making me a bit more excited than it should...
I doubt there are many more pleasurable things than seeing leprechauns getting red in the face with anger and making your ma jokes.

I just feel sorry for you tbh.

BeerWolf

Hold LARPing events and speak Elvish-- I mean Gaelic at them.

Franz Von Peppercorn II

The Alpha wrote: »

This is making me a bit more excited than it should...
I doubt there are many more pleasurable things than seeing leprechauns getting red in the face with anger and making your ma jokes.

Well, you live a very sad life in your mother’s basement so every little helps.