Amazon & refusing delivery

antix80

Let's see what people make of this..
15th July - I ordered a phone but cancelled it later that evening. I got an email saying as the order is being processed it could not be cancelled, but I should refuse delivery and it would be returned to Amazon.
24th July - I see the order still has not been processed and contact Amazon customer care. Whatever the delay was, he said he would get it shipped but redirect it so that it would be returned to Amazon.
25th. Order Despatched.
26th.. Out for Delivery. I wasn't at work so I told my workmate not to accept the package as it would be returned to Amazon.

I got a call from my workmate saying the courier "is not taking no for an answer. He'd already rang the buzzer twice and is sitting outside in his van"
I was pretty furious and rang nightline. They patched me through to the driver who apologise but thought the people in the office were "taking the piss" that they wouldnt accept the package. Didn't help that he'd signed my name for the package. Turns out, the person who answered the buzzer was not the same person I told the package was to be returned to Amazon, so they didn't relay the full message.

Still, I thought the whole thing was bad form.
Just thought I'd post here, it's still a consumer issue just one that's (hopefully) resolved.

2Mad2BeMad

Abit premature posting this.
Amazon will take it back from you and give you a refund once it's not opened.

Not Amazon's fault or couriers to be honest.

If anything Amazon probably have the best customer service in the world

What’s your gripe? Reads like you ordered something, you changed your mind, you weren’t there to refuse delivery, your instructions weren’t passed on to whoever was there, are you posting about your annoyance with yourself, or is this all amazon/nightline/your colleague’s fault?

What’s the “consumer issue”?

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

All down to you. Nothing whatsoever to do with Amazon or Nightline.

DaveyDave

They can be tricky with cancelling orders but they have a good return policy. Provided it was shipped via Amazon you have free returns. It's just a matter of printing the label and going to the post office. Not as convenient as cancelling an order unfortunately.

Their customer service is pretty good too.

antix80

Dav010 wrote: »

What’s your gripe? Reads like you ordered something, you changed your mind, you weren’t there to refuse delivery, your instructions weren’t passed on to whoever was there, are you posting about your annoyance with yourself, or is this all amazon/nightline/your colleague’s fault?

Annoyance with myself- no. I did what Amazon asked.
Annoyance with amazon. Nope, their customer service was fine and their instructions were clear.
Annoyance with colleague.. nope, she stuck to her guns.

Delivery was refused. Twice. Then the driver sat outside in his van because "wouldn't accept no for an answer". That's not acceptable in my view.

Second, he signed my name for the package. Not sure if that involves forging my signature but either way, he shouldn't have done that.

I don't even think I blame nightline. I'm sure it isn't their policy to sign for something and hassle people who refuse a delivery. All he had to do was go back to the depot. Chances are I would have got an automated text or email allowing me to redirect/return to sender as I've often got in the past with other couriers.

What's the issue? well that's one issue. I'm hoping it's resolved. The only problem is Amazon show it as delivered because it was signed for so it may require another chat with customer service to get a refund.

Jasmine Deep Klutz wrote: »

All down to you. Nothing whatsoever to do with Amazon or Nightline.

Did you read my post before putting on your keyboard warrior hat?
You do realise there are distance selling regulations that allow people to change their mind about online purchases?

Phileas Frog

antix80 wrote: »

Did you read my post before putting on your keyboard warrior hat?
You do realise there are distance selling regulations that allow people to change their mind about online purchases?

We did, the only person at fault here is *you*

antix80

Thought I'd post this as it may come in handy for people in future. Some people might as well benefit from this thread

When you receive your order, you're welcome to refuse the package and it will be returned to us. If you are unable to refuse delivery, please visit our Online Returns Support Centre to create your personalised returns label so you can send this item back to us for a full refund:
www.amazon.co.uk/returns-support

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

antix80 wrote: »

Did you read my post before putting on your keyboard warrior hat?
You do realise there are distance selling regulations that allow people to change their mind about online purchases?

And perhaps we could concentrate on where it fell down. You did not refuse delivery correctly and admitted that the story for the courier got lost in translation.

antix80

Jasmine Deep Klutz wrote: »

And perhaps we could concentrate on where it fell down. You did not refuse delivery correctly and admitted that the story for the courier got lost in translation.

In what way was delivery not refused "correctly"? Yes, there was a story and an agreement between me and Amazon. As far as the courier is concerned, if the consignee is not present and no one else will accept the delivery they should revert to the sender for further instructions. Not forge signatures (possibly) or hassle the person's coworkers.

I'd like to say you're trying to be helpful, Jasmine Deep Klutz, or contributing in a meaningful way to discussion. I notice you have a high post count and can only assume it's because you reply with nonsense to a lot of posts even though you don't know what you're talking about and don't have the intellectual capacity to follow an argument or make any meaningful contribution.

L1011

Report posts if you have an issue with them. Attack the post and not the poster. Two rather fundamental basics you're not adhering to here and I should be carding you for the accumulation of them, but I'm on mobile. Stop it

corks finest

antix80 wrote:

Did you read my post before putting on your keyboard warrior hat? You do realise there are distance selling regulations that allow people to change their mind about online purchases?

Yes but it's not going to kill you just to send it back? I've dealt with Amazon for years and find returning an item a doddle ,save yourself grief and possible trolling- send it back and accept what's happened

Del2005

antix80 wrote: »

In what way was delivery not refused "correctly"? Yes, there was a story and an agreement between me and Amazon. As far as the courier is concerned, if the consignee is not present and no one else will accept the delivery they should revert to the sender for further instructions. Not forge signatures (possibly) or hassle the person's coworkers.

The courier won't get paid for a refused delivery, they get paid too little for the actual delivers they do make. So it's easy for Amazon to say refuse the delivery and for you to refuse it, but why should the driver is out of pocket through no fault of theirs?

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

Much better to simply let the courier deliver and use the simple, fast and efficient Amazon returns procedure. Why go the Refuse Delivery route?

antix80

Jasmine Deep Klutz wrote: »

Why go the Refuse Delivery route?

The answer to that question and more is already in the thread.

You'd argue with you nails, as my granny used to say.

Sleeper12

Amazon have a no quibble 30 day money back guarantee. They even provide free postage for you to return to item.

I don't understand what has you annoyed? Amazon did their job as did Nightline. You still have a way to return the item at no cost to yourself and receive a full refund.

Mike3549

Well technically nightline didnt do their job, but forged a signature just to get paid €1 or €2 which i think might be a criminal offence

Del2005

Mike3549 wrote: »

Well technically nightline didnt do their job, but forged a signature just to get paid €1 or €2 which i think might be a criminal offence

So the driver should have driven to the OPs for free? They did their job and delivered it to the address. Amazon, and the OP, were doing them out of the money for doing their job, do you often work for free?

Sleeper12

Mike3549 wrote:

Well technically nightline didnt do their job, but forged a signature just to get paid €1 or €2 which i think might be a criminal offence

Not all of Amazon deliveries need to be signed for. Some do & some don't

L1011

Del2005 wrote: »

So the driver should have driven to the OPs for free? They did their job and delivered it to the address. Amazon, and the OP, were doing them out of the money for doing their job, do you often work for free?

Nightline will still be paid for a rejected delivery. If they don't pay the driver that is an issue with nightline, and more of a societal than consumer issue

Mike3549

Del2005 wrote: »

Mike3549 wrote: »

Well technically nightline didnt do their job, but forged a signature just to get paid €1 or €2 which i think might be a criminal offence

So the driver should have driven to the OPs for free? They did their job and delivered it to the address. Amazon, and the OP, were doing them out of the money for doing their job, do you often work for free?

Most drivers are self employed and they know about all risks associated with this. Refused delivery is one of them. If they dont like the terms, they shouldnt accept them in first place. Forging signature is not acceptable.
Im self employed, so the answer is yes. I did some "free" work.

Del2005

L1011 wrote: »

Nightline will still be paid for a rejected delivery. If they don't pay the driver that is an issue with nightline, and more of a societal than consumer issue

How do you know the courier company is paid for a refused delivery? Amazon won't be paying the courier company in advance for their deliveries.

L1011

Del2005 wrote: »

How do you know the courier company is paid for a refused delivery? Amazon won't be paying the courier company in advance for their deliveries.

Have you ever booked a courier?

If nightline agreed an awful contract it also isn't your problem. A general understanding of what firms abuse spurious self employment may be a good thing though

You've paid Amazon, for all their faults, and how they or their suppliers may screw people along the way shouldn't impact your service. If you don't like it, get politically involved.

antix80

Folks.. anyone criticizing me because they feel the courier isn't getting paid...couriers will usually bill the sender the fee for returning the parcel.

I have no idea what Amazon have agreed with nightline and i dont know what nightline have agreed with the driver (who may be self employed). I do know Amazon have an agreement with An Post to attempt redelivery. As for nightline, I've no idea. I'm well within my rights to refuse delivery of an unwanted item, as agreed with amazon.

There's a lot of people making assumptions here and they're missing a crucial point. My contract is with Amazon. Not the courier.

antix80

antix80 wrote: »

Folks.. anyone criticizing me because they feel the courier isn't getting paid...couriers will usually bill the sender the fee for returning the parcel.

I have no idea what Amazon have agreed with nightline and i dont know what nightline have agreed with the driver (who may be self employed). I do know Amazon have an agreement with An Post to attempt redelivery. As for nightline, I've no idea. I'm well within my rights to refuse delivery of an unwanted item, as agreed with amazon.

There's a lot of people making assumptions here and they're missing a crucial point. My contract is with Amazon. Not the courier.

Everyone agrees that you have rights under distance selling legislation, most of us just don’t understand what you are complaining about, even if the parcel was accepted, you just send it back.

JDxtra

Be more careful next time you order something online, just to save yourself potential grief.

antix80

Dav010 wrote: »

Everyone agrees that you have rights under distance selling legislation, most of us just don’t understand what you are complaining about, even if the parcel was accepted, you just send it back.

Ok. First of all, it's been sent back. I refused delivery.

The discussion surrounds the courier's behaviour. Informing amazon i accepted delivery, hassling my co-workers... that's all.

DaveyDave

antix80 wrote: »

Ok. First of all, it's been sent back. I refused delivery.

The discussion surrounds the courier's behaviour. Informing amazon i accepted delivery, hassling my co-workers... that's all.

This is the risk Amazon takes by using a bottom tier courier with self employed drivers. They frequently forge signatures for my house, my sister has often found a package thrown over the side gate left in the pissing rain all day, while someone was home. They don't even ring the doorbell most of the time. They sign it themselves, dump it, then leave. Couldn't find a parcel because it was under one of the cars.

These drivers know not everyone is home during work hours, some parcels won't be delivered. That's a fact. If they didn't want a crap job that pays €2 an hour then they shouldn't be doing it. It's nobody else's problem but by forging signatures they're opening themselves up to the recipient claiming they never got it and then being on the hook for Amazon refunding them or sending a replacement.

There's better options out there but this is what they get by penny pinching.

antix80

antix80 wrote: »

Ok. First of all, it's been sent back. I refused delivery.

The discussion surrounds the courier's behaviour. Informing amazon i accepted delivery, hassling my co-workers... that's all.

Why did you put your colleagues in that position of refusing delivery? I can understand the drivers point of view, he thought they were taking the piss, and he probably thought he is going to get an earful from you/nightline if delivery wasn’t made.

Next time, if you change your mind after buying online, look after the return yourself, don’t have your colleagues/a driver have to do it for you. And, don’t blame others.

Sleeper12

JDxtra wrote:

Be more careful next time you order something online, just to save yourself potential grief.

Or just return it free of charge in the manner set down in consumer law. Anything bought online within the EU has a cooling off period of 14 days & can be returned for full refund inc postage. There is no reason why someone would have to refuse delivery.

Cabaal

Sleeper12 wrote: »

Or just return it free of charge in the manner set down in consumer law. Anything bought online within the EU has a cooling off period of 14 days & can be returned for full refund inc postage. There is no reason why someone would have to refuse delivery.

Incorrect,
an online company does not have to pay for or refund return postage for a change of mind reason.

If for example you order a dvd and when it arrives you don't like the colour of the box you are welcome to certainly return it. But you are not entitled to free return postage.

Some company's may offer free returns for any return reason for any item, but in the case of amazon that is not the case.

Quackster

Cabaal wrote: »

Incorrect,
an online company does not have to pay for or refund return postage for a change of mind reason.

If for example you order a dvd and when it arrives you don't like the colour of the box you are welcome to certainly return it. But you are not entitled to free return postage.

Some company's may offer free returns for any return reason for any item, but in the case of amazon that is not the case.

Spot on.

https://www.eccireland.ie/popular-consumer-topics/shopping-online-consumer-rights/

antix80

Quackster wrote: »

Spot on.

https://www.eccireland.ie/popular-consumer-topics/shopping-online-consumer-rights/

postage is refunded. With Amazon, return postage isnt covered except in some circumstances.

Sleeper12

Cabaal wrote:

Incorrect, an online company does not have to pay for or refund return postage for a change of mind reason.

An online shop must tell you before you make the purchase that you will have to pay the return postage. If they don't tell you this before you order & pay then they cannot charge return postage fees. They can not charge you any fees not pointed out to you before you make the purchase

Sleeper12

"Some traders may not charge you for returning your goods. However, they should tell you in advance (before you order) if you will have to pay if you decide to return your order. If they don't tell you that you must pay for your return, the trader will have to pay for it. You don't have to pay any other charges that you were not informed of."

https://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/consumers/shopping/guarantees-returns/index_en.htm

killanena

If its off amazon directly and not a retailer that uses their platform, they are very easy to deal with in terms of returns. They give you a paid for label to print out and stick on the box. Bring it to a post office and your done. They usually refund me before I even send it back and give me a month to do so. Failing to send back in the timeframe they give you means they will just change your card for the item again.

Dav010

Dav010 wrote: »

Why did you put your colleagues in that position of refusing delivery? I can understand the drivers point of view, he thought they were taking the piss, and he probably thought he is going to get an earful from you/nightline if delivery wasn’t made.

Next time, if you change your mind after buying online, look after the return yourself, don’t have your colleagues/a driver have to do it for you. And, don’t blame others.

Why are you so antagonistic, towards the OP?

They have a valid point. No one should be forging their signature. Amazon instructed a delivery refusal, OP did as instructed

Sarn

In fairness to the OP, if you request the cancellation of an order within a few hours of placing it and it then takes nine more days of processing, it should be possible for it to be cancelled before dispatch. Amazon should really implement a better way of cancelling before shipping (I’m guessing they hope you change your mind again).

Cabaal

Sleeper12 wrote: »

An online shop must tell you before you make the purchase that you will have to pay the return postage. If they don't tell you this before you order & pay then they cannot charge return postage fees. They can not charge you any fees not pointed out to you before you make the purchase

Amazon make the information freely available to all its customers,

https://www.amazon.co.uk/returns/

For cancellations it clearly states:
Refund of costs of sending the item back to us if cancellation? No
No (unless Shoes, Clothing, Jewellery & Watches, see next row)