Want claritiy on flirting with a woman at work [title edited by mod]

LegacyUser

Going un-reg for this post if thats ok
I work in a fairly big office, good mix of folks and for the most part everyone gets on. I am in a senior managerial position, I can and do on a regular basis coach people both in and outside of my team for new roles, review and suggest changes to CV and help coach for Interviews. I also operate an open door policy so lots of people on a regular basis drop in for advice on work /personal issues which is all fine.

A few weeks back a women i interact with on a semi frequent basis on talking to me dropped that she was having a hard time coping with certain things and we had a long chat and something sparked between us. This never happened with any other woman ( or man) i have coached or sat with. We have talked lots more over the past few weeks and things progressed to some serious flirting.

To be honest its been a while since a women flirted with me and I am not ashamed to admit I had to google the signs, dont get me wrong I am somewhat ok in the looks dept. no Brad Pit but also no Adam Sandler... slim, 45 and approachable, polite and a nice person. However this threw me a curve ball. We go on coffee breaks together, text via web app/email, no sex talk just stuff in general. Now i can handle a bit of flirting thats all good and to be honest its a nice ego boost. I have/had no intention of anything further but like it for what it is.

Yesterday out of nowhere she asked "do you know any nudist sun bathing areas in Dublin?" This threw me completely, either I am over reacting or she with that questions on a conscious or unconscious level took this into another place entirely. I had to pause and think on this and she pinged me a couple times for a answer. I told her that it would be a bad move to search in work for that but I knew a place in Dalkey and she was happy with that answer. I have never been to this location or spoken with anyone about nudist sun bathing so this was a bolt out of the blue.

We moved on like it was a nothing question, maybe it was and had a cheeky back and forth and then headed home.

I suppose I am trying to understand was the nudist question a move on her part to move this playful flirting to a different level....?

For clarity I am married long term with kids in a somewhat happy place in life, both myself and wife are "flirters" and happy that it goes no further

Please dont judge for the flirting,
Thanks in Advance
MJW

leggo

I don’t judge the flirting, but why are you posting in PI if that’s all it is? Question: have you told your wife about all this?

Given you’re senior management, and it would be something worth thinking about even if you were single, I’d back off personal interactions and draw a line here. It’s not that hard to do in work, really, once you’re happy to lose the attention that comes with it.

antix80

She sounds nuts and you're playing with fire for 2 reasons: you're happy with your job and happy with your marriage. You could lose both if she makes a complaint about you.

LegacyUser

Anon1227 wrote: »

<snip>

Happened to me last year, op this can get out of control very quickly, I was in a happy place, married, 2 kids. But the lady in question started to text me out of office hours, I tried to hide it, but then the wife found out. Even though nothing was going on, she didn't believe me, our marraige disintegrated over the folllowing year and we are now seperated in the same house....and for what? Nothing

qwerty13

She has poor judgement in flirting with you. Your judgment is even worse (I’m talking solely about your workplace).

She escalated her poor judgement by using a word that can cause searches and/or messages to be alerted to your IT function.
And you engaged with that. Where is your head at?

And the biggest red flag of all - she kept pushing you until you answered - and you did. Holy sh*t OP. Have you lost the plot? You’re playing with FIRE. You need to back off as quickly and completely as you possibly can. I can’t believe how stupid you are being in your position in work. And before I get blasted by a mod, I actually think you really need to hear that you are being incredibly stupid.

And you flirted with a subordinate who was having a hard time. SERIOUSLY. Can you not see the HR complaint screaming at you.

killbillvol2

qwerty13 wrote: »

She has poor judgement in flirting with you. Your judgment is even worse (I’m talking solely about your workplace).

She escalated her poor judgement by using a word that can cause searches and/or messages to be alerted to your IT function.
And you engaged with that. Where is your head at?

And the biggest red flag of all - she kept pushing you until you answered - and you did. Holy sh*t OP. Have you lost the plot? You’re playing with FIRE. You need to back off as quickly and completely as you possibly can. I can’t believe how stupid you are being in your position in work. And before I get blasted by a mod, I actually think you really need to hear that you are being incredibly stupid.

And you flirted with a subordinate who was having a hard time. SERIOUSLY. Can you not see the HR complaint screaming at you.

^^^^ This. Back off and then run away.

antix80

Just to add op, there's a saying for this. Don't **** where you eat.

Ursus Horribilis

Should anything be read into you only mentioning your wife and family right at the end of this? Do you want to have an affair with this woman? I'm not seeing any signs that you want to put the brakes on this. Is part of you secretly pleased that she seems to want to step this up a notch?

You're 45 years old. That's getting to the age where being "flirty" could also be misconstrued as being a dirty old man. It goes without saying that unless you want to jeopardise your job and your marriage, you should step away from this now. And you should reevaluate how you relate to colleagues.

Mr. Incognito

This is a vulnerable person who has latched onto you as a stable person.

I would send her ask HR for a list of places that offer Counselling. See if the company will part fund a few sessions and I would make that suggesting and back off as you are not a Counsellor. You are her boss.

ManOfMystery

You need to re-evaluate this situation not as a red-blooded male, but as her superior in a the workplace. She has approached you on a professional basis and you are now engaged in flirting and inappropriate conversations with her. It doesn't really matter if she is the one who initiated it or asked the questions - you are the senior, the onus is on you to manage the situation and if you feel it's inappropriate, then remove yourself from it.

Situations like this have a way of rapidly escalating into something very different, and the next thing you know you'll find yourself in a tribunal or as the subject of a newspaper article about a 'vulnerable' female in the workplace being harangued by a leech of a boss. That may not be the truth, and certainly not your perspective on things, but as I say these situations can escalate and mutate extremely quickly and more often than not one party will be painted as innocent and the other as guilty. You need to put an end to this now.

qwerty13

Why are you giving people who report to you / are subordinate to you advice on personal issues?

You’ve flirted in writing with this woman. I actually wouldn’t just drop her, as she can easily screenshot anything you’ve sent. You need to back off though, but without dropping her like a stone.

You need to consider what will happen if she goes for an interview for a new role, and despite your ‘coaching’ doesn’t get it, and how she will react to that if you’ve dropped her.

You say that you and your wife enjoying flirting as long as it goes no further - it HAS gone further. Coffee, what sounds like extensive texting, “serious flirting”, and sexual innuendoes.

What makes you think this woman hasn’t told all of her buddies in work / shown them your messages?

skallywag

I will try my best to give you some grounded feedback with minimal hysterics.

You have left this whole fiasco progress way too far and you subsequently now find yourself in quite a difficult position, but I somehow think you know this already from the tone of your post. From my perspective the fault here lies squarely at your door. I know only too well from my own experience that one's head can be turned in such a situation, we all like the attention, etc., but I firmly believe that you should have shot this down right from the get go.

You mention ...

Anon1227 wrote: »

... and something sparked between us...

... this was the point at which should have heard the warning bells. I had a very similar incident relatively recently with a colleague, where it very quickly became apparent that there was a spark there. Instead of going down the coffee/flirting road though I did the opposite, I actually minimized such contact as much as possible. I was not so much worried about an eventual tribunal etc. but more that I am a happy family man and want to stay so.

So I guess what I am saying is that I think you really need to make a conscious effort not to let things progress in such situations, regardless of what your ego is telling you.

As for what to do now, I really think you need to ramp down the contact level with this woman. Coffee now and again, fine. Random instant messaging, and chat of nudist beaches? Forget it.

LegacyUser

Lovely. If she goes to HR with a message about nudist beaches from you, you are a goner. She could even cite stress at older management harassing her and get a nice pay out. She can also delete stuff from her side and make you look so much worse. Was the constant goading for a response not a huge red flag. Is it worth your career and marriage? Run it by your wife and see if she sees it as harmless flirting.

LegacyUser

Thanks and i needed the jolt back to reality - like a Deer in headlights i got caught but knew it and needed confirmation. You are all correct. action now being taken to remedy,

ILoveYourVibes

Flirting is just flirting. That's all It's harmless.

leggo

While I’d always be wary of the worst case scenario OP, there’s a lot of catastrophising going on here. You can sleep at night like, your job or marriage is almost definitely not going to be the slightest bit affected by this. But yeah, if it escalated then some of the responses here could be what you’re looking at so dial it back.

mazwell

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

Flirting is just flirting. That's all It's harmless.

No it isn't when it could destroy your marriage, family, career and reputation. Thankfully from his last reply OP seems to realise this

LegacyUser

Hi All,
To draw a line under this, While flirting is just that, it can be harmless and for the most part is I knew that this escalated beyond such but needed a reality check. I needed to assure myself that for some reason, this interaction went a little left of centre quickly and without design.

We had a conversation yesterday and found that while there was a attraction of sorts it will never go any where as we both have jobs & family etc.. There are no hard feelings we are still friends but very much know the line in the sand. In relation to the "nudist" question she explained that as a non irish person this is a normal activity from back home and did not think of the ramifications of asking a question like that and the possible fall out. It was an honest mistake on her part and I am taking it as such.

Both a little red faced, both a little wiser... end of

thanks for all replies

skallywag

You seem to be making a hard play to convince yourself that 'flirting can be harmless and for the most part is', but I would have to disagree with you there.

Perhaps so when you are sixteen, but most people I at least know in their mid forties do not carry on like this. You tend to have enough cop on and that stage to know that behaving like this is never going to end well. I do not mean to be harsh on you by saying that, it is just something that I have also learned myself. I tend to make an extra effort to keep my distance sometimes, because I would be genuinely worried what may happen if the stars were to align, e.g. business trip, drink taken, etc.

Sounds like you have the situation under control now though, fair play.

facehugger99

Ignore the usual 'Boards-hysteria'.

There is no harm done at present but it is time to disengage from this lady.

ILoveYourVibes

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

Flirting is just flirting. That's all It's harmless.

I don't agree that it's harmless. It depends on the context. Ask yourself what would your children think if they saw you doing it with mammy or daddy not there.

LegacyUser

Well done op, I was in a position that a work collegue did this to me. I was so caught up in the " Jesus am I still attractive?" I was kinda bowled over. Little did I know, it was a ruse. I was absolutely flattered by her and never had any interest, just thought I could keep it on the long finger.

Then the out of work texting started, it was impossible to keep up, tried nipping it in the bud...Then came ,does your boss know about this? Then I told her to get fecked, my wife found out. We are seperated. I'm paying the price for being bloody naieve.

Glad you came out the other side...just so know this woman was married with two kids also. I don't know the dynamics of her relationship, but it's obviously not healthy if she targeted me for destruction...and what have got out of it? A failed marraige and 2 teenagers wondering where it went wrong.

Lotus Flower

facehugger99 wrote: »

Ignore the usual 'Boards-hysteria'.

There is no harm done at present but it is time to disengage from this lady.

This. If there's an attraction of sorts, you need to disengage and keep your distance. Be courteous & professional and leave it at that.

By the way, the stuff about the nude beach is BS- there's no way it was an honest mistake. She knew what she was doing. She literally could have asked anyone other than a superior she's attracted to or googled it. That's just her attempt at explaining it away when she didn't get the reaction she was looking for.

cannotlogin

I'm shocked at the level of naivety given you are a 45 year old senior manager. You are so quick to put your job and marriage on the line for someone who is unstable at best!

First, you need to re-establish professional boundaries, not just with her but with all staff - any open door policy mentoring should be work related topics only. If anything else arises, point out it's not something you can assist with and refer them to the work well-being programme if there is one or recommend they talk to a personal friend. This protects you.

Secondly, if you are this easily flattered do you need to look at your marriage? Has it gone stale? Do you need to inject some fun back into it? A few dates? Weekends away without the kids etc.

Most women in a workplace know who they could "have" easily. They know the guys who are professional and don't **** on their own doorstep & they know who the guible fools are that are easily flattered and probably starved off attention elsewhere. Time & time I've seen it happen, often purely just for fun, while the rest of us watch the stupidity. I'm sure men can tell vice versa but can only speak as a woman.

I'm sorry but you need to wise up because women like that (who hit on married men) will hang you out to dry if you start something and change your mind.

antix80

cannotlogin wrote: »

Time & time I've seen it happen, often purely just for fun, while the rest of us watch the stupidity.

Oh absolutely she's just having her fun. She got her kicks from asking him in person. Then following it up by PM. Next step, have a giggle with one of her mates about it. Then maybe let the rumour float around the office a bit. Maybe a bit more drama if it gets back to HR or his wife.
It's possible she genuinely likes flirting, or that she genuinely likes the Op. I think she's just having her fun and I'd question her motives and her boundaries (and not in a good way).

Wheety

Been there already wrote: »

Well done op, I was in a position that a work collegue did this to me. I was so caught up in the " Jesus am I still attractive?" I was kinda bowled over. Little did I know, it was a ruse. I was absolutely flattered by her and never had any interest, just thought I could keep it on the long finger.

Then the out of work texting started, it was impossible to keep up, tried nipping it in the bud...Then came ,does your boss know about this? Then I told her to get fecked, my wife found out. We are seperated. I'm paying the price for being bloody naieve.

Glad you came out the other side...just so know this woman was married with two kids also. I don't know the dynamics of her relationship, but it's obviously not healthy if she targeted me for destruction...and what have got out of it? A failed marraige and 2 teenagers wondering where it went wrong.

I'm not even sure if you'll be back in this thread but are you saying your marriage is over because of flirting?

LegacyUser

Wheety wrote: »

I'm not even sure if you'll be back in this thread but are you saying your marriage is over because of flirting?

Yes, because my wife thinks it was something more and she believes I had an affair. I didn't, I should have told her to stop texting me outside work, but I didn't. Now I'm paying the price for being stupid.

If it was the other way round I'd think my wife was having an affair. My wife is so convinced I had an affair that she got tested for STD's. I wish I never crossed paths with this woman.

leggo

Well from the sounds of it you did have an emotional affair. It’s just the worst of both worlds where you got caught and didn’t even have anything to show for it beyond a few texts. A harsh lesson to learn and steep price to pay, but if you harbour hopes of getting your wife back I’d say the first step is definitely accepting and taking responsibility for the fact that you did have an affair. I’d imagine it brings an almost allergic reaction to her ears every time you insist that you didn’t.

Been there already

Been there already wrote: »

Yes, because my wife thinks it was something more and she believes I had an affair. I didn't, I should have told her to stop texting me outside work, but I didn't. Now I'm paying the price for being stupid.

If it was the other way round I'd think my wife was having an affair. My wife is so convinced I had an affair that she got tested for STD's. I wish I never crossed paths with this woman.

I hear this story almost every day of the week and am in the exact same situation as your wife, it doesn't even matter if you had a physical affair what hurts is the deceit, the lies,thinking that someone else could so easily make your OH forget about you so easily and that if it happened once it may have happened other times but he wasn't caught and it probably will happen again, every time the phone beeps you're convinced its from her or some other woman...the list goes on and on,I'm just giving the other side to the story,it cant be erased or forgotten imo and theres no going back to the original relationship with your OH and all for a bit of flattery, sad but true.

OP you're being played big time and have no one to blame but yourself. No one made you reply to texts etc and you cant blame her ,you're not a child and have a mind of your own..btw you can be sure it's been noticed in work, it happens in most big offices and every knows it,I'd totally blame yourself, lots of opportunities for people to do the same but most people know better and don't fall for it..sorry if that's harsh but it's my opinion.

LegacyUser

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I hear this story almost every day of the week and am in the exact same situation as your wife, it doesn't even matter if you had a physical affair what hurts is the deceit, the lies,thinking that someone else could so easily make your OH forget about you so easily and that if it happened once it may have happened other times but he wasn't caught and it probably will happen again, every time the phone beeps you're convinced its from her or some other woman...the list goes on and on,I'm just giving the other side to the story,it cant be erased or forgotten imo and theres no going back to the original relationship with your OH and all for a bit of flattery, sad but true.

OP you're being played big time and have no one to blame but yourself. No one made you reply to texts etc and you cant blame her ,you're not a child and have a mind of your own..btw you can be sure it's been noticed in work, it happens in most big offices and every knows it,I'd totally blame yourself, lots of opportunities for people to do the same but most people know better and don't fall for it..sorry if that's harsh but it's my opinion.

Thank you for giving the emotional side that you're feeling. I've just admitted to an emotional affair to my wife, I'm terribly sorry for it. My wife now thinks we can move on, closure but it will take years to heal. If I hadn't seen your post I woudnt have admitted to that..thanks for the perspective of a woman.

Spencer Winterbotham

Look mate....man to man here..... don't mind the hysterics going on on this thread...

You know what you have to do....

Take her out for a boozy lunch, head to a hotel.... get it out of your system and move on..

Simples.

antix80

Spencer Winterbotham wrote: »

Take her out for a boozy lunch, head to a hotel.... get it out of your system and move on..

Great advice 15-20 years ago.

ManOfMystery

Spencer Winterbotham wrote: »

Look mate....man to man here..... don't mind the hysterics going on on this thread...

You know what you have to do....

Take her out for a boozy lunch, head to a hotel.... get it out of your system and move on..

Simples.

You're not the only man who's posted in this thread. Ridiculous advice which could lead him into a whole heap of trouble.

LegacyUser

Ah here! Nudist sunbathing is not de rigueur in any country and workplace convo about the same (especially with seniority) isn't the norm anywhere. The fact you even accept that as a plausible excuse is ridiculous. She's dangerous, not worth it.

wiggle16

I'm glad you've clarified things with her.

Friendly flirting itself can be harmless, it's not always something to catastrophise about. The trouble is that if one person considers it to be a bit of flirting with no intention of it going anywhere else but the other wants or expects something more, hurt feelings can develop and in a work situation that can be a disaster. I'm glad it's worked out for you.

Mod:

OP as you seem to have drawn a line under it I'll take it I can close this thread.

Thanks & grma all who posted. Thread locked.