Coffee bean grinder

The high horse brigade

I have the sage grinder pro, set at 19 seconds it dispenses the exact amount of coffee for my portafilter. It also has a start button at the back of the portafilter holder, push in the portafilter handle to start grinding

wersal gummage

alec76 wrote: »

Just get a kitchen digital scale if you want a precise amount of coffee.
Baratza Vario W great espresso grinder with integrated weight scale.

Thanks, I think weighing the coffee is again getting too troublesome for me, especially in the morning with kids running around etc.

How does this work generally with a precise integrated weight, you press a button an exact weight is dispensed into the portafilter, and then you tamp it down, so before you tamp it down is it piled up high overflowing the poetafilter and generally making a bit of a mess?

Shouldn't really need to weigh the coffee and maybe I can manage without this, I'd sooner grind the coffee into a container and then scoop a certain amount out, rather than use the rancilio thing to just guess how much to grind in and then flatten out a bit, maybe grind a bit more etc...

Presume there's nowhere you can actually view these things before buying? Most suppliers seem to be online /uk

wersal gummage

The high horse brigade wrote: »

I have the sage grinder pro, set at 19 seconds it dispenses the exact amount of coffee for my portafilter. It also has a start button at the back of the portafilter holder, push in the portafilter handle to start grinding

Does it take 19 seconds to grind for one espresso/ double espresso?? That seems like ages, is that normal in this price category? No idea what I was expecting, maybe 2 or 3 seconds!

The high horse brigade

wersal gummage wrote: »

Does it take 19 seconds to grind for one espresso/ double espresso?? That seems like ages, is that normal in this price category? No idea what I was expecting, maybe 2 or 3 seconds!

Yes, 17-19 seconds to grind to fill my portafilter (double) which is normal, mostly 19 seconds with my regular bean. It takes a few goes to dial in a new bean to get the grind right then it's consistent

alec76

wersal gummage wrote: »

Shouldn't really need to weigh the coffee and maybe I can manage without this, I'd sooner grind the coffee into a container and then scoop a certain amount out, rather than use the rancilio thing to just guess how much to grind in and then flatten out a bit, maybe grind a bit

Surely you can. Just use kitchen scale at the start , untill you could trust you judgment with out it
ps.We,the coffee snobs, measuring coffee to get recipe right and for results consistency , not to get rid of mess.
Different beans , different recipes , one required 17 g of coffee, another 19g etc. You could also shake portafilter while grinding to get even distribution without overflowing.

J_E

wersal gummage wrote: »

Does it take 19 seconds to grind for one espresso/ double espresso?? That seems like ages, is that normal in this price category? No idea what I was expecting, maybe 2 or 3 seconds!

These are smaller burrs than what you expect in industrial/cafe grinders. My Eureka Mignon does only about 1g/sec but it is pretty accurate.

wersal gummage wrote: »

Shouldn't really need to weigh the coffee and maybe I can manage without this, I'd sooner grind the coffee into a container and then scoop a certain amount out, rather than use the rancilio thing to just guess how much to grind in and then flatten out a bit, maybe grind a bit more etc...

If you are serious about getting the best out of your espresso, it's better to eliminate that uncertainty of weight, or you are going to get a lot of shots that didn't turn out right for some reason or another. The cheapest of scales will make your life a whole lot easier. Some beans are going to weigh differently than others even if you measure by how they fit in the PF.

wersal gummage

alec76 wrote: »

ps.We,the coffee snobs, measuring coffee to get recipe right and for results consistency , not to get rid of mess.
.

Thanks, yeah I understood that alright. I meant that I'd be more inclined towards convenience than making a mess (eg a grinder that can just put a set number of grammes of coffee into the portafilter).

wersal gummage

J_E wrote: »

If you are serious about getting the best out of your espresso, it's better to eliminate that uncertainty of weight, or you are going to get a lot of shots that didn't turn out right for some reason or another. The cheapest of scales will make your life a whole lot easier. Some beans are going to weigh differently than others even if you measure by how they fit in the PF.

Yeah that's an issue now alright. I'm using a bladed grinder and every time I use it I suppose the coffee is grinders to a slightly different degree, even though I do time it and try and keep it to what I know generally works. Then I'm using a "scoop" to put the coffee in, not weighing. So yeah, a fair bit of room for inconsistencies there. I don't tend to ger very bitter coffee, but I do occasionally find the coffee doesn't come through properly, just little drips (too much coffee or too tightly ramped I guess, or possibly error in thickness of coffee grind), I also find that I routinely don't get great crema, I mean it's fine and it's there, but it's not amazing and it tends to dissipate very quickly....

Thanks


Ps I read a few reviews suggesting that the baratza is so noisy that it would wake a whole house up, I think it was an American website so possibly bigger houses than we'd have here too....

alec76

wersal gummage wrote: »

Ps I read a few reviews suggesting that the baratza is so noisy that it would wake a whole house up, I think it was an American website so possibly bigger houses than we'd have here too....

I own Baratza Vario ( regular, not Weight version ) along with Sage Pro grinder, not sure which one is noisiest( probably Vario), but grinds quality wise Vario miles ahead of Sage .
PS. You’ve never said what espresso machine you’ve got. There is no point getting cheap grinder for hi end machine and vice versa

J_E

wersal gummage wrote: »

Ps I read a few reviews suggesting that the baratza is so noisy that it would wake a whole house up, I think it was an American website so possibly bigger houses than we'd have here too....

Yeah, the Baratza grinders can be a little bit noisy alright, not roaring loud but enough that it might wake someone in a quiet house.

If I were you, I would maybe get something like a Hario Mini Mill some time which is not overly expensive (€35) and see the difference when you use a more even grind. I used a Mini Mill with my espresso machine for a long time. Sure the hand-cranking is slow and a little tiresome but you can get an amazing espresso compared to using a blade grinder.

If you are still committed to your blade grinder, try time the grinding, and this might at least help get it down to a certain range. when I had a blade grinder I'd usually go in 3 10 second bursts and also feel the grind at each stage as I knew what coarseness was in the ballpark for the machine, although it will never make you happy compared to a burr grinder.

wersal gummage

alec76 wrote: »

PS. You’ve never said what espresso machine you’ve got. There is no point getting cheap grinder for hi end machine and vice versa

I don't have a very good machine, but I may well get one in the future so wouldn't want to have to upgrade the grinder as well.... Machine is Smeg ecf01.

wersal gummage

J_E wrote: »

If you are still committed to your blade grinder, try time the grinding, and this might at least help get it down to a certain range. when I had a blade grinder I'd usually go in 3 10 second bursts and also feel the grind at each stage as I knew what coarseness was in the ballpark for the machine, although it will never make you happy compared to a burr grinder.

I do that now, somewhere between 25 and 30 seconds in total seems to be the ballpark.

What do you mean never happy compared to a burr? There's a noticeable improvement with the burr in what sense, the consistency of the grind, the end results in terms of espresso taste etc??

I wouldn't have an incredibly sophisticated pallet and not sure I'd know the difference in terms of how the beams in my coffee were ground?

Day Lewin

wersal gummage wrote: »

What do you mean never happy compared to a burr? There's a noticeable improvement with the burr in what sense, the consistency of the grind, the end results in terms of espresso taste etc??

It's this: when the flat blade of a grinder spins around, it chops up the coffee beans, all right, - as it should, of course.
But the finer pieces get flung outwards into the edges of the container while the larger bits go on travelling round to be ground in their turn.

When all is ground as fine as you like it, you will find that the edges contain a much finer deposit of powdery particles while the middle has the biggest pieces.
That is what they mean by "an irregular grind", in these traditional types of coffee-grinder; I get around it by stopping every few seconds to shake or even stir the contents. (I keep a special chopstick for the purpose!)
Still, sometimes there is too much of the very finest grounds in the finished batch and then it escapes through the fine metal filter that I use, and creates a slightly dusty cup.

alec76

wersal gummage wrote: »

Machine is Smeg ecf01.

Couldn’t find much information about this machine. Is it the one with pressurised basket and thermoblock instead of boiler ?
Pressurised basket doesn’t require decent grinder, almost anything will do. You won’t pull great shot with it (regardless how good grinder you have),although it won’t be too bad ... Great machine for unskilled person IMO

wersal gummage

^
Yes that's it. Understand it's not for the purists but it's convenient. I wouldn't be willing to have a coffee machine that takes a long time to heat up / turn on.

So waste of money buying a grinder, that's useful thank you! Maybe I'll go with the scale and start weighing the coffee instead, I've been judging the amount of coffee by how full the portafilter is. I'm finding when I put too much coffee in it comes out in little drips, but if I don't put in a good bit of coffee it comes out a relatively weak looking colour. It may be a nice brown syrupy looking texture for about a second or two but rapidly turns to a watery colour.

Would you recommend an alternative machine, that turns on quickly??

wersal gummage

Day Lewin wrote: »

I get around it by stopping every few seconds to shake.... .

That's what I do, don't even have to turn it off, can shake it a bit while it's still going. Seems to do an OK job but as I say, getting some inconsistent results (with what seems to be a sort of idiot proof machine). Probably 85% of the time that shot of espresso is fine (never amazing, even with good coffee and the crema always just disappears quickly), then now and again I just get drips, which I think is more related to too much coffee or tamping down too hard?

Thanks for the info

alec76

wersal gummage wrote: »

Would you recommend an alternative machine, that turns on quickly??

There is no such a thing. You could get Timer switch though or just try to source non pressurised basket for your machine first .

https://youtu.be/vB2bOZ1V99M

some helpful guides
https://www.home-barista.com/espresso-guide-skills.html

Zagato

I have my espresso machine plugged in via a smart plug, that is on a timer to come on at 7.15 every weekday morning, works perfectly. I have a widget on my phone to turn it on/off as well, which is handy at weekends or if I think I'll have a coffee when I get home from work.

wersal gummage

alec76 wrote: »

There is no such a thing. You could get Timer switch though or just try to source non pressurised basket for your machine first .

https://youtu.be/vB2bOZ1V99M

some helpful guides
https://www.home-barista.com/espresso-guide-skills.html

Thanks that's very informative and shows me how little I know, I didn't even realise there was different types of baskets. I'm doing some searching on-line now, but wonder if you know whether the baskets tend to be proprietary? I think the smeg is an odd size, possibly 49mm or 51 or something like that.... I'll measure it up and see if I can find something similar

Having to wait a while for a coffee machine to warm up is a bit of a deal breaker for me... If you are busy at the weekend and in and out of the house, not at very predictable times, or people visit etc... How do you manage?! Once it's warned up in the morning, does it fire up quicker then later in the day?

Thanks again, appreciate your help

wersal gummage

Zagato wrote: »

I have my espresso machine plugged in via a smart plug, that is on a timer to come on at 7.15 every weekday morning, works perfectly. I have a widget on my phone to turn it on/off as well, which is handy at weekends or if I think I'll have a coffee when I get home from work.

That would work for me Monday to Friday alright, but I would find it very annoying at the weekend if I wanted a "spontaneous" coffee.... How long does it take to fire up?

I obviously don't appreciate my coffee enough to go to the necessary trouble, I must say I'm finding the current espresso machine pretty underwhelming though...

alec76

wersal gummage wrote: »

but wonder if you know whether the baskets tend to be proprietary? I think the smeg is an odd size, possibly 49mm or 51 or something like that.... I'll measure it up and see if I can find

58mm would be industry standard for the basket.
Yours machine probably use 54mm .. Just measure tamper diameter. Probably proprietary type though , might need to modify basket to use it correctly.

wersal gummage

Did a fair bit of digging last night and the Smeg is basically an expensive Delonghi.... Once I had that info and started googling the delonghi model numbers I immediately started finding parts and more info (which are clearly the exact same).

So I've ordered an 18mg basket which apparently will require a minor modification of the portafilter alright, which is fine. I also found (expensive) bottomless portafilters, don't plan to go down that road.

Thanks again for the info ðŸ‘

alec76

You are right , no reason of getting proprietary bottomless portafilter unless it is standard ,58mm portafilter you could use after with any other coffee machine .

J_E

wersal gummage wrote: »

I do that now, somewhere between 25 and 30 seconds in total seems to be the ballpark.

What do you mean never happy compared to a burr? There's a noticeable improvement with the burr in what sense, the consistency of the grind, the end results in terms of espresso taste etc??

I wouldn't have an incredibly sophisticated pallet and not sure I'd know the difference in terms of how the beams in my coffee were ground?

There's absolutely no comparison, it's night and day between a blade and burr grinder. You suddenly have a consistency that repeats every time, can tweak it to taste, reduces so much frustration or bad shots.

As other posters have said though, pressurised portafilters work a little differently.

wersal gummage

Thanks for all the info, very useful.

Possibly starting to go down the rabbit hole now, currently looking at a la pavoni Europiccola.... From one extreme to the other.... Probably a terrible idea. It seems to warm up in 10 mins, which I could live with. It only does 3 or 4 shots apparently before overheating, but that would work for me.....

In six months or so I haven't had one really excellent espresso from the current machine, even using reasonably good coffee.... Mind you, I haven't had a really excellent espresso from any coffee shop in a long time either, I mean they are fine, perfectly acceptable, but not wow, I need to have another of those...

alec76

.la pavoni Europiccola

oh boy...Not a machine for the newbie...It is for hardcore coffee snobs.
I would stay far away from it .

Planet X

alec76 wrote: »

oh boy...Not a machine for the newbie...It is for hardcore coffee snobs.
I would stay far away from it .

You’ll want a “serious” grinder for a La Pavoni. You’ll need to grind quite fine.

wersal gummage

Planet X wrote: »

You’ll want a “serious” grinder for a La Pavoni. You’ll need to grind quite fine.

Like the grinders mentioned already, the rancilio rocky or the like?? Or something more expensive?

wersal gummage

alec76 wrote: »

oh boy...Not a machine for the newbie...It is for hardcore coffee snobs.
I would stay far away from it .

Yeah I've spent quite a while reading about them and, while I have to say the coffee snob thing didn't come across in anything I read, I got the impression it would be a bit of a leap into the dark alright.....

What would you recommend? The gaggia classic?

Planet X

Had a Rocky for a couple of years. Great grinder paired with a GC.
It’s a stepped grinder. Don’t think it would be sensitive enough to go with a La Pav. Could be wrong though.....