Worried I won't be able to sell

SusanC10

An elderly relative died and the house needed to be sold to pay the Fair Deal. My Mum was Executor.
She was advised to do all sorts to the very dated house before sale. She didn't want to spend her own money when she would only inherit a small amount. So, she got it cleaned out, painted internally and front facade outside and professionally cleaned and put it on the market at a realistic asking price and it sold within a few months. Rural location not particularly popular.

Donie75

I have recently put a house that I bought in 2006 on the market. I lived in it for a few years and then had to rent it as I moved with work. Accidental landlord/negative equity, etc. The tenants recently moved out so I painted the inside, did some repairs on windows and doors, did the garden, etc. Overall I spent €3k. The estate agent was very happy that I did this as he said ex rentals with no refresh are very hard to shift.
It's been on the market 3 weeks today. There have been a few viewings, one was the local council. They are getting an engineers report and a valuation done at the moment and the EA thinks they will make an offer next week.
Otherwise the EA told me thins morning that viewings are "worryingly quiet at the moment". They are his exact words.
Maybe buyers are holding out for the budget on the 8th of October.

MrMusician18

I can understand why the OP is being coy but without a general location, ballpark what's she's looking for it and number of beds no one can really say how much overpriced this is.

Just as a buyer myself, I'm holding out until how I see Brexit panning out. I think you'd be crazy to go into the market now

MrMusician18

MrMusician18 wrote: »

I can understand why the OP is being coy but without a general location, ballpark what's she's looking for it and number of beds no one can really say how much overpriced this is.

Just as a buyer myself, I'm holding out until how I see Brexit panning out. I think you'd be crazy to go into the market now

Yeah I find it a bit mad she won't just link to the advert and then at least any advice can be given properly and tailored to her issues.

For example, I'm a photographer, and I've often been hired by people to shoot their house, as the photos taken by the EA were crap, and they felt better photos would help shift the house (which, believe it or not, does actually work - well worth the €100 or so you'd pay a 'proper' photographer).

So it could just be that the house looks dark, damp and run down based on bad photos.

But without the ad, it's not something anyone can comment on.

zapper55

Price reduction of 10k is nothing. Considering the work you described I would need a fairly significant drop to consider it. I have a sneaking suspicion that if you dropped it by another 30/40k there be interest again.

It's flawed thinking that you'll rent it for while and maybe sell it again. Assuming prices do rise it means any house you want to buy will rise.

Cat_M

zapper55 wrote: »

Price reduction of 10k is nothing. Considering the work you described I would need a fairly significant drop to consider it. I have a sneaking suspicion that if you dropped it by another 30/40k there be interest again.

It's flawed thinking that you'll rent it for while and maybe sell it again. Assuming prices do rise it means any house you want to buy will rise.

Okay. An hour from Dublin. Mins from M3. 4 bedrooms. Asking price has been dropped from 220 to 210. It was valued at 245/50 a year agovanf pitched to sell easily. Hence my emotion about the whole thing. You could get a kitchen for 10K if that was really so offensive. Soffit and fascia 1.5 max but getting priced on that at the moment and will probably get it done. I haven't heard of houses dropping on price by 20% in that area in that bracket. It was fully repainted and inside and out and professionally cleaned inside and out. Maybe it's the photos. Maybe it's Brexit. Other houses in similar bracket have dropped about 6k in last few months. Most of them are 3beds. Possibly a few years newer tho. Other houses of similar vintage are also asking 220 even tho their BER is way worse, some are F and G! Mine is a C rating. EA has said the BER doesn't matter which I find very odd and seemingly people are happy to spend money improving efficiency over time. I can't understand why in that case, you wouldn't be prepared to change a few kitchen doors if they are dated if they are such an issue. That's just an example. The house is not a wreck by any means. But I've dropped price and will see what that brings.

Renting is a last resort. A very last resort. Will drop price as much as I can stomach before that.

Addle

But why would someone buy a grubby house that they can’t immediately move into because they’ll have to do work, when they can move in to a fresh new one down the road. That has a value.

JP 1800

Had a look at the photos, my opinions are.
All the skirting boards look dirty and the paint does not look fresh
The kitchen has doors that look like they are broken or about to fall apart, the bathroom is very tired looking and grubby in places
There are missing or broken lights and obliviously the furniture looks tired. These are cheap to rectify

Now these are small things and obliviously these things will be changed with a new owner however it does look like an ex rental and anyone with an ounce of imagination would see past these issues but you need to set an inviting and appealing scene as a lot of FTBs will be strapped for cash and will not want to invest thousands more into a house.

The main points that would put me off are, the house backs onto an industrial estate, the rooms are small- a case of quantity over quality with some of the windows too small for the rooms and the main one that would put me off is that type of house is the type built from the late 90s to the boom, to me they lack quality.

If I was in the market again I can see why a new house would appeal to me with better building regs, the HTB and ready to move into.

skooterblue2

I wouldnt be bothered with the Bus but my missus would be.
I would be bothered by the obviously vacant house next door for damp and antisocial reasons.
I would say use the carrot more than the stick and make friends with the neighbours and try and shift the house ASAP before anyone realises there will be a recession next year.

JP 1800

JP 1800 wrote: »

Had a look at the photos, my opinions are.
All the skirting boards look dirty and the paint does not look fresh
The kitchen has doors that look like they are broken or about to fall apart, the bathroom is very tired looking and grubby in places
There are missing or broken lights and obliviously the furniture looks tired. These are cheap to rectify

Now these are small things and obliviously these things will be changed with a new owner however it does look like an ex rental and anyone with an ounce of imagination would see past these issues but you need to set an inviting and appealing scene as a lot of FTBs will be strapped for cash and will not want to invest thousands more into a house.

The main points that would put me off are, the house backs onto an industrial estate, the rooms are small- a case of quantity over quality with some of the windows too small for the rooms and the main one that would put me off is that type of house is the type built from the late 90s to the boom, to me they lack quality.

If I was in the market again I can see why a new house would appeal to me with better building regs, the HTB and ready to move into.

Based on your post and I haven’t had the advantage of seeing the photos, the biggest deterrent for me would be the fact it backs onto an industrial estate and the small windows which would mean house could lack light. Light is the biggest selling point for me , it’s really important. Tired, dull, old fixtures, fittings and furniture can all be fixed but if the surrounds aren’t great and the quality of the house can’t compete with new builds, I’d be reducing the price right down and selling as fast as possible.

I’ve had to reduce prices down (I’ve bought and sold 5houses myself ) and I feel it’s sometimes better to shift a house that has issues rather than cling on to the thought of getting a higher price but nobody is interested. I’ve never regretted the decision either.

kirving

Cat_M wrote: »

. You could get a kitchen for 10K if that was really so offensive. Soffit and fascia 1.5 max but getting priced on that at the moment and will probably get it done.

It's not the price of the updates that put people off, its that the house it undesirable without them.

When buying a car, people pay dealerships thousands of euro for a car thats been properly valeted, had a few scuffs resprayed and a warranty. These can all be sorted after purchase (including warranty) from a private seller for literally a fraction of the cost and saving the buyer a lot of cash.

Likewise, prospective buyers aren't doing the maths that you are to justify the refurbishment cost vs the selling price. They're skipping to the next advert because they don't like what they see unfortunately.

If it was me, I'd put 5k or whatever into making the house more desirable and have a much better chance of selling at all.

Kevin Irving

Kevin Irving wrote: »

It's not the price of the updates that put people off, its that the house it undesirable without them.

When buying a car, people pay dealerships thousands of euro for a car thats been properly valeted, had a few scuffs resprayed and a warranty. These can all be sorted after purchase (including warranty) from a private seller for literally a fraction of the cost and saving the buyer a lot of cash.

Likewise, prospective buyers aren't doing the maths that you are to justify the refurbishment cost vs the selling price. They're skipping to the next advert because they don't like what they see unfortunately.

If it was me, I'd put 5k or whatever into making the house more desirable and have a much better chance of selling at all.

+100. I’d also pretty up the garden, even though it’s Autumn. Make it tidy and put some window boxes and planters around with colorful plants. That makes a house look like someone actually cares about it and will show up in photos or when people drive past. OP needs to attract buyers out to view the house, if the photos are bad they won’t bother, the power of the first impression is hugely important.

Unfortunately a house that has been rented out for years probably doesn’t have the same feel as owner occupied. I’ve only ever sold my own houses (ones I was living in) so always had lamps on, maybe a fire lighting if it was a wet, cold day or heating on. I’d also have bought new duvet covers, a new throw and cushions for the couch , sparkling clean kitchen and bathrooms. They’re only little things but make a huge difference to prospective buyers.

LionelNashe

Why is their a vacant house next door? Can that owner not sell or rent his house either?

skooterblue2

Addle wrote: »

But why would someone buy a grubby house that they can’t immediately move into because they’ll have to do work, when they can move in to a fresh new one down the road. That has a value.

I am not worried about the things I can change I would be more worried about the things I cannot change (ie Vacant next door and antisocial neighbours)

skooterblue2

LionelNashe wrote: »

Why is their a vacant house next door? Can that owner not sell or rent his house either?

More likely relatives who cant sit down and settle on a will. Better to carry the spite than settle the property.

Addle

skooterblue2 wrote: »

I am not worried about the things I can change I would be more worried about the things I cannot change (ie Vacant next door and antisocial neighbours)

It’s such a waste of energy focusing on something you can’t control, rather than something you can.

LionelNashe

skooterblue2 wrote: »

I am not worried about the things I can change I would be more worried about the things I cannot change (ie Vacant next door and antisocial neighbours)

Addle wrote: »

It’s such a waste of energy focusing on something you can’t control, rather than something you can.

The Serenity Prayer: "God grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, courage to change the things I can, and wisdom to know the difference."
Or the secular version, just clench your fists and shout "Serenity now! Serenity now!" at the ceiling.

meathstevie

homer911 wrote: »

I'm pretty sure the parking of commercial vehicles at a residential premises is prohibited

Definitely, tell that to every builder, painter, plasterer, courier, electrician etc etc that they can’t park their van on their drive anymore or a farmer that he can’t park his Landcruiser at the house anymore....

Dav010

skooterblue2 wrote: »

More likely relatives who cant sit down and settle on a will. Better to carry the spite than settle the property.

There are many reasons why houses are empty, when you hear hooves, think horses, not zebras.

The owner parks his bus there.

Glass fused light

meathstevie wrote: »

Definitely, tell that to every builder, painter, plasterer, courier, electrician etc etc that they can’t park their van on their drive anymore or a farmer that he can’t park his Landcruiser at the house anymore....

Parking large commercials can be prohibited.

A number of the "secondhand" houses around here are bought by non locals are professional truckers and bigger commercial drivers and they pay the premium of secure onsite parking on a rural site. One guy was delighted to move out of the residential area as starting the truck in the morning was giving rise to noise complaints from the neighbours

In some of the new owned/managed it's against the lease to park a commercial vehicle so you buy in to the restriction. The larger tucks can be over the tonnage for resident areas and the commercials can be too long for the modern drive, and it only takes one grumpy neighbour and warfare begin.

Cat_M wrote: »

Okay. An hour from Dublin. Mins from M3. 4 bedrooms. Asking price has been dropped from 220 to 210. It was valued at 245/50 a year agovanf pitched to sell easily. Hence my emotion about the whole thing.

Not trying to be harsh but one in the hand, two in the bush applies here.

Your property is currently worth nothing €0 as you have had no interest from anyone willing to buy it.

If the property market rises or falls this will hold true until you look at the transaction as a commercial transaction.

As pointed out the relative value of the property will rise and fall with the market.
So if the new houses are worth 270 your property will remain valued at best as 220/270 of the price of a new build
However it's likely to be falling as your property continues to date in its appearance and experience wear and tear

Cat_M wrote: »

You could get a kitchen for 10K if that was really so offensive. Soffit and fascia 1.5 max but getting priced on that at the moment and will probably get it done.

Bathrooms and Kitchens sell housed not soffit and fascia.
So unless they are rotting and falling of the house in the pictures your investment here is of little or no value to getting people in the door to view.

Cat_M wrote: »

I can't understand why in that case, you wouldn't be prepared to change a few kitchen doors if they are dated if they are such an issue.

You are competing against modern walk in ready dream homes.

If I am looking at old kitchen doors in an ex rental, I am costing in the whole kitchen being pulled out and replaced. So its not nip down to the DIY store for new doors, it's finding a kitchen fitter, booking them only once I own the house, a week + of no kitchen and the full cost.
Then it's the exact thing with the bathrooms except for more mess and having to have access to toilet and shower for the full duration of the works.
Bathrooms are the biggest job for most people because they like to know they aren't out the back behind a bush or getting to know the neighbour to do bathroom runs.

I am also thinking poor quality flooring and fixtures & fittings, and low attention to maintance, so thats costing in too.

Cat_M wrote: »

Renting is a last resort. A very last resort. Will drop price as much as I can stomach before that.

You have a business asset so what is the real price an investor will pay to gain a rental income from your property.

Cat_M

Okay so it sounds like I have to get a loan out and do up the place and any equity i'd hoped for is majorly shrinking as is , minus what I have to spend on it I'm looking at a major loss as I paid 250 for it. I will be having a serious conversation with my EA about why she thinks there is no point spending any money on it when the majority of opinions are that I have no choice but to do so. Unless she thinks it's a lost cause to begin with. I also live 3 hours away so it is not that easy to project manage. It took us several weekends getting it to where is is today.

More debt and expense while continuing to pay rent back home.

Thanks for all the advice. I'll have a chat with the credit union.

Graham

meathstevie wrote: »

Definitely, tell that to every builder, painter, plasterer, courier, electrician etc etc that they can’t park their van on their drive anymore or a farmer that he can’t park his Landcruiser at the house anymore....

Potential purchasers aren't likely to be put off by any of the above vehicles. I can understand why a 30 seater bus is less desirable.

beauf

Cat_M wrote: »

.... I will be having a serious conversation with my EA about why she thinks there is no point spending any money on it when the majority of opinions are that I have no choice but to do so. Unless she thinks it's a lost cause to begin with. ....

Estate agents aren't always right.

That said there is a difference in spending money with the expectation of getting a return on it. Or if it's a necessary expense to close a bigger deal.

SusanC10

Tbh, I would just drop the asking price rather than taking on more debt in trying to do it up. Know that is not the popular opinion here.

An ex-rental close to us sold last year. Would have been late 90s construction. The owners just emptied and professionally cleaned it and although it was on the market for a few months, it did sell for just 5k under a realistic asking price. New owners completely gutted it. They were down-sizing not FTBs.

Cat_M

[Deleted User] wrote: »

+100. I’d also pretty up the garden, even though it’s Autumn. Make it tidy and put some window boxes and planters around with colorful plants. That makes a house look like someone actually cares about it and will show up in photos or when people drive past. OP needs to attract buyers out to view the house, if the photos are bad they won’t bother, the power of the first impression is hugely important.

Unfortunately a house that has been rented out for years probably doesn’t have the same feel as owner occupied. I’ve only ever sold my own houses (ones I was living in) so always had lamps on, maybe a fire lighting if it was a wet, cold day or heating on. I’d also have bought new duvet covers, a new throw and cushions for the couch , sparkling clean kitchen and bathrooms. They’re only little things but make a huge difference to prospective buyers.

I get what you're saying. I would have done window boxes but not there to maintain them. I did buy new duvet covers for beds and new cushions and borrowed a few little pieces to make the place look bit brighter. I was going to add more furniture but advised against it as people" are expecting an empty house" yet I thought some furniture would be better than empty. Maybe that was a bad idea.

SusanC10

Cat_M wrote: »

I get what you're saying. I would have done window boxes but not there to maintain them. I did buy new duvet covers for beds and new cushions and borrowed a few little pieces to make the place look bit brighter. I was going to add more furniture but advised against it as people" are expecting an empty house" yet I thought some furniture would be better than empty. Maybe that was a bad idea.

That ex-rental near us was empty of furniture etc when put on the market.

Cat_M

SusanC10 wrote: »

Tbh, I would just drop the asking price rather than taking on more debt in trying to do it up. Know that is not the popular opinion here.

An ex-rental close to us sold last year. Would have been late 90s construction. The owners just emptied and professionally cleaned it and although it was on the market for a few months, it did sell for just 5k under a realistic asking price. New owners completely gutted it. They were down-sizing not FTBs.

That's what I was hoping for at the beginning. And what a lot of people I was talking to me about it were thinking ie that a prospective buyer would fit it and put their own stamp on it but maybe those people are not as much in the market now. I've been looking at second hand houses myself although that plan is being put further and further back. I would expect to have to do some amount of refurb but probably at a later point when we'd have the cash

Mike3549

SusanC10 wrote: »

That ex-rental near us was empty of furniture etc when put on the market.

You said this happened last year. A lot has changed in the last 12 months. Op could have easily got 30k more last year, but couldnt because tenants were still living there, and looks like he has to drop a price and spend some more on top of that today. Sadly op missed the top and now has to fix loses. Renting is tricky, you dont know what kind of new laws the government will introduce again.

skooterblue2

Addle wrote: »

It’s such a waste of energy focusing on something you can’t control, rather than something you can.

I was commenting from a potential buyers perspective.

skooterblue2

Dav010 wrote: »

There are many reasons why houses are empty, when you hear hooves, think horses, not zebras.

The owner parks his bus there.

Why a house be vacant in an other wise healthy economy. It seems long term vacant because the garden is in a state. Assuming it is either semi-detached or in a terrace that is not a feature I would find attractive. Ideally you want a tenant/relative in immediately for loads of reasons (security, maintenance, image).