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https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2055940817/signature-rules
The eBike thread
Comments
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Aye. I have ordered the €19 controller I linked to and a €3 throttle. €22 shipped for the lot. Gonna bypass current system, see what it's like.
Did a bit of eBay searching for a front wheel (only) geared motor but there don't seem to be any decent deals about at the moment. Like the idea of AWD though
Will probably stay with the geared hub motors though. My bike is totally fine to ride when the battery is goosed. Unlike the conversion kit bike I started with. It was just a big dead weight very hard to start from zero too.My ads on adverts.ie:
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Aye. I have ordered the €19 controller I linked to and a €3 throttle. €22 shipped for the lot. Gonna bypass current system, see what it's like.
Did a bit of eBay searching for a front wheel (only) geared motor but there don't seem to be any decent deals about at the moment. Like the idea of AWD though
Will probably stay with the geared hub motors though. My bike is totally fine to ride when the battery is goosed. Unlike the conversion kit bike I started with. It was just a big dead weight very hard to start from zero too.
Yep, too much motor drag with direct drive but great for raw power.0 -
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Here's some eBike pr0n for ya Mad_Lad - but I presume you follow this dude already?
Some controller. The price of it and all his other stuff is just eye watering though
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Here's some eBike pr0n for ya Mad_Lad - but I presume you follow this dude already?
Some controller. The price of it and all his other stuff is just eye watering though
Cool, yes , expensive hobby, since I had 2 Kids my cycling time is severely limited to non existent so I got into Amateur Radio, another expensive hobby, if you think ebikes are expensive , though it doesn't have to be expensive, it doesn't take a lot or expensive equipment to get on the air but the more you want the better you want the more your bank account drains lol.0 -
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Not going to butcher the current battery / controller up until I have bypassed them successfully. Opened up the battery pack and it looks like this:
There's also another cable coming out at the other end of the battery connected to an on / off switch
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Deleted User wrote: »The little board ? God knows. Could be some kind of step down voltage regulator to power a light
Yeah it looks like it is connected to the plug that is connected to the lights on the outside of the case
Ordered a load more stuff last night. All cheap, i.e. 13S balance board BMS for €7 including shipping
Pulled the plug on a vruzend kit too. Not cheap. Feel like I'm only doing a half job if I don't build my own battery
What do you do with all the stuff you're no longer using?My ads on adverts.ie:
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Pain in the neck waiting for the various items to arrive by snail mail. Patience is not one of my virtues
Anyway, thinking ahead already/ Once I get the current setup beefed up with 30A 48V controller, I'll probably want to make the bike AWD. Similar to the rear I could get one of these bad boys:
Bafang 48V geared hub motor €119 including shipping.
Linky
Various setups possible. Simplest would be for the motors to have their own 30A controllers and their own throttles, both drawing from the same 48V battery. 3kW in total
Was talking to Stagg cycles in Lucan and they would re-build my front wheel with it for very reasonable cost of about €35 + cost of the spokes (which can vary quite a bit)My ads on adverts.ie:
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Pain in the neck waiting for the various items to arrive by snail mail. Patience is not one of my virtues
Anyway, thinking ahead already/ Once I get the current setup beefed up with 30A 48V controller, I'll probably want to make the bike AWD. Similar to the rear I could get one of these bad boys:
Bafang 48V geared hub motor €119 including shipping.
Linky
Various setups possible. Simplest would be for the motors to have their own 30A controllers and their own throttles, both drawing from the same 48V battery. 3kW in total
Was talking to Stagg cycles in Lucan and they would re-build my front wheel with it for very reasonable cost of about €35 + cost of the spokes (which can vary quite a bit)
Just get one of the Em3ev upgraded MAC motors and run 2 Kw through it. Save you all the hassle.0 -
Like that one that you linked to before?
linky
AT €550 + shipping that's a lot of money for just a motor kit with max 1500W. More than my whole setup including bike itself with 1500W max on front + 1500W max on rear plus + beefed up battery + new controllers and everything else would cost me
And I can understand how torque can be problematic for wheels and forks in hub motors, but surely it must be far more problematic for wear on the drive train (with gears!!!) for a mid drive? The whole mid drive motor setup doesn't make sense to me - unless it is of course the human powering it My ads on adverts.ie:
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Like that one that you linked to before?
linky
AT €550 + shipping that's a lot of money for just a motor kit with max 1500W. More than my whole setup including bike itself with 1500W max on front + 1500W max on rear plus + beefed up battery + new controllers and everything else would cost me
And I can understand how torque can be problematic for wheels and forks in hub motors, but surely it must be far more problematic for wear on the drive train (with gears!!!) for a mid drive? The whole mid drive motor setup doesn't make sense to me - unless it is of course the human powering it
Get a rear hub like this
https://em3ev.com/shop/upgrade-mac-ebike-kit-with-47-50v-battery-option-and-black-case-controller-2000w-max/
8T mac, 48 Volts 28 Mph and great fun.
Of course the battery will cost a lot or make a LiPo pack.
do it once, do it right. 0 -
Yeah I was looking at them alright. But I already have a perfectly fine rear hub motor. Not going to replace that. And you confuse my budget with the one you used to have. I like a champagne lifestyle but I only have a beer income, remember?
I've done a good bit more research today and decided that indeed a mid drive is not for me. I understand this is the superior setup for serious trail bikers or people climbing mountains, but I'm not either. And the motor is far more expensive than a hub motor. Add in the chance of drivetrain failure leaving you by the side of the road (even if you replace all the drivetrain bits with expensive ones) vs the redundancy of hub motors and that's me out of ever wanting a mid motor.
My next steps:
1. Use 8Ah new 36V battery to prove that the problem with the kit cutting out is caused by the current degraded battery
2. If proven, bypass the current weak controller, stick in the new 30A Chinese one, connect a throttle, build a small 48V (13S2p) battery for up to 1.5kW (minus losses) through the rear hub motor If proven to work, rip out the current battery / controller setup and customise it for a larger 48V (13S4P) battery with BMS and cell balancing
3. Eventually turn it into an AWD bike. If anyone sees a dirt cheap front geared hub motor kit for 27.5" wheels, let me know
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Yeah I was looking at them alright. But I already have a perfectly fine rear hub motor. Not going to replace that. And you confuse my budget with the one you used to have. I like a champagne lifestyle but I only have a beer income, remember?
I've done a good bit more research today and decided that indeed a mid drive is not for me. I understand this is the superior setup for serious trail bikers or people climbing mountains, but I'm not either. And the motor is far more expensive than a hub motor. Add in the chance of drivetrain failure leaving you by the side of the road (even if you replace all the drivetrain bits with expensive ones) vs the redundancy of hub motors and that's me out of ever wanting a mid motor.
My next steps:
1. Use 8Ah new 36V battery to prove that the problem with the kit cutting out is caused by the current degraded battery
2. If proven, bypass the current weak controller, stick in the new 30A Chinese one, connect a throttle, build a small 48V (13S2p) battery for up to 1.5kW (minus losses) through the rear hub motor If proven to work, rip out the current battery / controller setup and customise it for a larger 48V (13S4P) battery with BMS and cell balancing
3. Eventually turn it into an AWD bike. If anyone sees a dirt cheap front geared hub motor kit for 27.5" wheels, let me know
See , you'd be very surprised how quick everything adds up and you could find yourself spending a lot more than you intended anyway.
Yeah Hubs are fine but you'd be surprised how many big hills I climbed with the 8T Mac and even a magic pie II motor, I ripped out the internal controller and rewired it.
That direct drive motor you have should take a lot of abuse but you might first want to re-wire the phase wires to the motor but see how it goes first, should be good for 2 Kw.
8Ah of battery won't last long. Lipo is your man ! some day you'll believe me ! 0 -
Oh I believe you alright.
But the budget just isn't there for spending on batteries. I've decided to go the self build route. Bought the cheap tester that the likes of Jehu Garcia uses. Got vruzend kit, got soldering iron on the way too. Going to rip apart the existing degraded battery and hopefully between that, and the 40 odd batteries I already have, I can get to a decent pack. If not, it's fairly easy for me to get my hands on laptop batteries.
Quite likely that I will come out the other end of this wanting to build a LiFePo4 battery alright
Any cells you would recommend (eBay etc. link with reasonable prices incl shipping)? And what setup did you make, 15S?My ads on adverts.ie:
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Oh I believe you alright.
But the budget just isn't there for spending on batteries. I've decided to go the self build route. Bought the cheap tester that the likes of Jehu Garcia uses. Got vruzend kit, got soldering iron on the way too. Going to rip apart the existing degraded battery and hopefully between that, and the 40 odd batteries I already have, I can get to a decent pack. If not, it's fairly easy for me to get my hands on laptop batteries.
Quite likely that I will come out the other end of this wanting to build a LiFePo4 battery alright
Any cells you would recommend (eBay etc. link with reasonable prices incl shipping)? And what setup did you make, 15S?
To run 48V originally I used the ping battery I linked to earlier in the thread , remember ?
Then I upped that to around 64 volts with LiPo with the Mac 8T kit. Even 44 volts will be plenty fast with the 8T Mac but with direct drive, depending on the winding you'd probably want 52 volts but it's not going to make a huge difference.
LiPo is 4.2 Volts per cell hot off the charger so 4.2 X 12 S would give you 50 volts, so 4 x 5 Ah 6 S packs would give you 10 Ah 50 volts hot off the charger but, ideally you'd charge it to 4.15 volts max to help extend the life, you can set this in the RC charger.
No, I would not recommend old Li Laptop cells, too risky if you short something you risk fire, too easy happen.
You will need a way to weld the tabs with proper fuseable links.
You'll also need to match cells with similar internal resistance.
That would be a major pain in the ass.
At least with a couple of LiPo bricks you can join them together with the 30 Amp Anderson connectors and if you create a short the connection vaporises and acts like a handy safety device.
LiFeP04 is not ideal for ebikes, too bulky and heavy, there's much better alternatives these days.0 -
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Deleted User wrote: »No, I would not recommend old Li Laptop cells, too risky if you short something you risk fire, too easy happen.
You will need a way to weld the tabs with proper fuseable links.
You'll also need to match cells with similar internal resistance.
That would be a major pain in the ass.
Yes, pain in the ass, but cheap (free).
Using the vruzend kit (expensive, but won't depreciate), you're not familiar with it? No need for any welding. Will use BMS and battery as a whole will be fused. Only soldering needed is the BMS main wires, even the balance wires can all be crimped and connected to the screw on terminals. None of this will ever be stored or worked on indoors (apart from shed). You really need to take the piss for this to be going on fire like purposefully shorting it or piercing a cellDeleted User wrote: »LiFeP04 is not ideal for ebikes, too bulky and heavy, there's much better alternatives these days.
Like what? Link to any cell on eBay?My ads on adverts.ie:
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Deleted User wrote: »No I'm not familiar with that particular kit but seem similar before. The problem you're going to have is matching cells with close internal resistance and it's still not fool proof as you can easily connect one cell with wrong polarity.
You haven't heard of Micah Toll then either? The vruzend kit was a big success on kickstarter last year. It has improved since then and here is the latest version of the kit
I guess you were out of the scene by the time all this came up?
But yeah have to be careful not to short the pack. I'll do a few practice dry runs first I think. I don't see it as a pain, more an interesting hobby. And when I'm done with the kit, I have no doubt I can sell it on with minimal loss - like I usually do. So no money wasted.My ads on adverts.ie:
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You haven't heard of Micah Toll then either? The vruzend kit was a big success on kickstarter last year. It has improved since then and here is the latest version of the kit
I guess you were out of the scene by the time all this came up?
But yeah have to be careful not to short the pack. I'll do a few practice dry runs first I think. I don't see it as a pain, more an interesting hobby. And when I'm done with the kit, I have no doubt I can sell it on with minimal loss - like I usually do. So no money wasted.
Not at all, there's been kits similar to that long ago when the Headway LiFePo4 cylindrical cells came on the scene but the problem for me was weight and bulk, and LiFeP04 is heavy and bulky enough without adding those plastic cell holders but it would be handy actually maybe to make up a small battery for one of my Ham Radios, but LiPo Pouch cells are just a whole lot easier , they are lighter and they can give out all the amps I ever need and they are cheap.0 -
This is the only solderless 18650 kit I have heard off. Not even yet cloned by the Chinese. Obviously LiFePo4 cells already have built in screw terminals, making it far easier to connect them with plates. These are of course still far too expensive for me to start using
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It's easy to do this but remember , the greatest and most absolute pain in the arse you'll have is matching cells unless the source has already done this and you're ok with trusting them, again, over to endless-sphere and try get recommendations.
For me another beauty of using RC LiPo is that I do not have to use an expensive BMS which can be another point of failure and I can run all the power I want direct through the battery, to me a BMS is not required. Of course I have to use an RC charger if they go out of balance but have that anyway.
You can bulk charge LiPO, without BMS easily as long as the cell voltages are monitored and you use a proper charger for LiPo.
If your cells are old and high internal resistance and are too mismatched you will have issues with out of balance , so closely matched cells are a must really.
Best of luck , it will be a good learning experience for you too. Keep us updated 0 -
The cells are all from unknown sources, so will have to be tested. A bit of a pain, but we are talking dozens here, not hundreds. I'd do it for the experience alone. You can't become a proper chef without doing the dishes burning your hands and chopping the veg cutting your fingersDeleted User wrote: »that I do not have to use an expensive BMS
Expensive BMS? The 13S I just ordered was €7 including shipping and that includes the balancing leads too My ads on adverts.ie:
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The cells are all from unknown sources, so will have to be tested. A bit of a pain, but we are talking dozens here, not hundreds. I'd do it for the experience alone. You can't become a proper chef without doing the dishes burning your hands and chopping the veg cutting your fingers
Expensive BMS? The 13S I just ordered was €7 including shipping and that includes the balancing leads too
LOL Holy Sh1t ! Can't wait to see this up and running !
Don't leave it in the house lol.0 -
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