Overtime - yes or no

jamesd

Hopefully I can explain this and make it easy to understand.

My normal work hours are 9am to 5:30pm , I usually start at 08:30am as it gives me a head start on the day in peace.
I commute to work 45min drive daily.

The company has a new office in Dublin that is opening and I am required for a few weeks for its setup and maybe a while after opening,
the local train station from me is 25min away and the train leaves at 8am and has me in Dublin and at work for 10am.
I then take the 4:30pm train home and I am home for 6:45pm.
I work on my laptop from when I get onto it until I get off between work phone calls so the same as I am at a desk.

I am trying to keep track of my hours, so my typical day is train for 8am, Dublin for 10am and then train home at 4:30pm and at my house at 6:45pm.

Should I be putting in for 1hr overtime per day

Twenty Grand

Good luck actually working on the train at rush hour.

amcalester

Are you on a salary or paid hourly?

I’d have expected this to have been agreed in advance of the secondment.

Tell me how

Agree with view that I would have thought this would have been discussed ahead of agreeing to the placement.
Also relevant question whether you are getting paid OT currently or are on salary.

This might be one of those 'additional hours will be expected to be worked at times' lines from a contract and if you are currently salary, I wouldn't expect that you would get paid. But, if you ask is it Ok if you finish say half day on a Friday the company might allow it as a recognition of the extra hours without actually paying for them.

Strumms

If you are working you should be getting paid. Whether at home, in the office or en route.

I have a hard and fast rule, when I leave the office I’m done, work phone off, laptop off. I wasn’t always like that and it meant the mobile (personal one) would ring from time to time too, not any more..separation of work and personal life is vital.

jamesd

amcalester wrote: »

Are you on a salary or paid hourly?

I’d have expected this to have been agreed in advance of the secondment.

Salary paid, no all that was said was let's chat about any overtime that is done at this project.

I have been paid overtime before or received time (time and a half) against it but this time since the time is travelling is what is making me ask the question.

OMM 0000

If I were you I'd have this exact discussion with your manager, saying you can get another hours work done on the commute, and see how they respond.

jamesd

OMM 0000 wrote: »

If I were you I'd have this exact discussion with your manager, saying you can get another hours work done on the commute, and see how they respond.

If he says do not work on the commute would I still be entitled to an hour with the 8am commute start ?

qwerty13

Personally, I wouldn’t go there. You’re looking to be paid OT for your commute. You say that you’ll work during that time, but more than likely you’ll be standing and not able to work.

Even if you were able to work, looking for that time as OT opens up cans of worms re precedent. I think if anything, it would better to try to count the commute time as working hours, so that you can finish earlier. Tbh, I’m not seeing that being accepted from a HR point of view tho.

I think I’d talk to your manager and emphasise how you’re short term facilitating them. And use that in future negotiations

Tell me how

jamesd wrote: »

If he says do not work on the commute would I still be entitled to an hour with the 8am commute start ?

I wouldn't push for it.
If he knows you're doing the hour, it should came back to you in some form. Either time in lieu, Goodwill if you need to take time off or future pay rise negotiations.
It'll have shown you to be a team player.

dazed+confused

You're at work from 10-4:30 and you want overtime? Are you kidding me?

Everyone has some form of commute, that's life!

Strumms

Let the commute be just that, a commute. Arriving at your workplace ready, rested and primed to begin your working day.

If you set a precedent by working on public transport that will be EXPECTED as the norm and indeed an important point...it could become expected from other too...ie. Denise takes a train too, likes to sit back with a coffee and relax, now when things are busy with people off they are wondering if she too can get a ‘head start’...

Also.. If you get on and you can’t find a seat, comfortable space which you can work then in their eyes you will have fallen behind.

The more you do, the more will be expected, if you can be ‘flexible’ enough to touch your toes they will then want to know why you aren’t reaching for the stars.

There is many a ‘work super hero’ who found this out the hard way. Know when are appropriate times to relax, when the cut off is...when this line becomes blurred you will have issues. Been there.

If your working hours are 9-5:30, are you not already being paid while you are commuting and arriving at work at 10am?

CramCycle

No, there is no over time there. I can't figure out why you think there is, you appear to be working an hour less per day.

CramCycle

CramCycle wrote: »

No, there is no over time there. I can't figure out why you think there is, you appear to be working an hour less per day.

Two by my count, arriving at 10, on train home by 4:30. Unless the op is being told he/she is expected to work 8-6:45. Obvious answer seems to me to turn on phone/laptop at 9am, off at 5:30, and be available/able to work during those hours on commute.

jamesd

Thanks guys, I am expected to work up and down on the train as work have me responding to mails and phone calls and so far I have been working on the trip up and down but maybe the answer is not to work on the train.

jamesd

jamesd wrote: »

Thanks guys, I am expected to work up and down on the train as work have me responding to mails and phone calls and so far I have been working on the trip up and down but maybe the answer is not to work on the train.

Would you be giving up two hours per day in wages if you are arriving to work at 10 and leaving at 4 to catch 4:30 train?

Strumms

jamesd wrote: »

Thanks guys, I am expected to work up and down on the train as work have me responding to mails and phone calls and so far I have been working on the trip up and down but maybe the answer is not to work on the train.

Just tell them it isn’t appropriate, that you don’t always get a seat and you would rather just work in the professional environment of the office where you can do your work in space, comfort and without prying eyes and ears all around you. Next sure, they’ll have you taking calls at breakfast...”aghhh sure, he’s up !”

my3cents

OP what does your contract say about your place of work? If there is nothing about having to work in different locations then you can also have the conversation with your boss as to expenses for travelling to a different location. However its just as likely a well written contract will have that covered.

jamesd

my3cents wrote: »

OP what does your contract say about your place of work? If there is nothing about having to work in different locations then you can also have the conversation with your boss as to expenses for travelling to a different location. However its just as likely a well written contract will have that covered.

I have no contract as HR never gave me one, 9 years working here without one.
They cover all my expenses for travelling up and down plus a carvery dinner in Dublin.

con___manx1

They are not giving you any recognition for this work. You could be sleeping or watching netflix on the train instead. Nothing is for free dont be a mug op.
Tell them yr thinking of getting a car and driving t work. You have the theory test booked for next week. Be really enthusiastic about it. They might take the hint : )

Tell me how

con___manx1 wrote: »

They are not giving you any recognition for this work. You could be sleeping or watching netflix on the train instead. Nothing is for free dont be a mug op.
Tell them yr thinking of getting a car and driving t work. You have the theory test booked for next week. Be really enthusiastic about it. They might take the hint : )

This attitude is what really ticked me of when I managed people. Those that were quick to say anything different meant they had to be paid extra were always the ones who were strolling in late, wrapping up early and on their phone most often.

This is an exceptional circumstance. In a future job interview, the OP could be asked to give an example where he showed himself to be willing to go the extra mile for the company. I don't get the impression that the company is either looking like changing their work location long term or trying to take advantage in this instance.
(I don't get the impression the OP is purely thinking about the money either fwiw)

amcalester

con___manx1 wrote: »

They are not giving you any recognition for this work. You could be sleeping or watching netflix on the train instead. Nothing is for free dont be a mug op.
Tell them yr thinking of getting a car and driving t work. You have the theory test booked for next week. Be really enthusiastic about it. They might take the hint : )

Well apart from allowing him start late, leave early, pay for his travel expenses and lunch.

Did you even read the OP? He already drives to his normal place of work, this is just temporary.

Strumms

Strumms wrote: »

Just tell them it isn’t appropriate, that you don’t always get a seat and you would rather just work in the professional environment of the office where you can do your work in space, comfort and without prying eyes and ears all around you. Next sure, they’ll have you taking calls at breakfast...”aghhh sure, he’s up !”

So you are saying the op should be at his her desk at 9:00 until 5:30?

Strumms

Dav010 wrote: »

So you are saying the op should be at his her desk at 9:00 until 5:30?

I’m saying the OP should be at work during the times agreed. I’m saying that they shouldn’t be anywhere near working or thinking about work when not ‘on the clock’.


If tonight at 7pm I get a call from a boss... “here, the senior manager is in tomorrow only just heard, when you get a chance can you come up with an idea for xxx and we’ll look like we are ahead of the curve.”

The reply would be, “I’ll come up with work ideas for that at 9am tomorrow, when I’m in work, tonight I’m not going to be doing that, thinking about that, or otherwise, talk to you tomorrow.”

Tell me how

Strumms wrote: »

I’m saying the OP should be at work during the times agreed. I’m saying that they shouldn’t be anywhere near working or thinking about work when not ‘on the clock’.


If tonight at 7pm I get a call from a boss... “here, the senior manager is in tomorrow only just heard, when you get a chance can you come up with an idea for xxx and we’ll look like we are ahead of the curve.”

The reply would be, “I’ll come up with work ideas for that at 9am tomorrow, when I’m in work, tonight I’m not going to be doing that, thinking about that, or otherwise, talk to you tomorrow.”

Are you at work right now (14:43 on a Thursday)? Is it part of your contract to be on Boards?

I'm sure you'll say that you are on a break or something but do you always adhere to the work/private separation in every instance? Do you use the company phone for any personal calls? Do you browse the internet on company time for personal reasons? Have you ever brought home a stapler or folder for you or done printing for tickets for a personal flight or concert or anything?

If I was your boss and you answered the above circumstance in that way, when it came time to your performance review, it would most definitely influence my view of you.

Strumms

Tell me how wrote: »

Are you at work right now (14:43 on a Thursday)? Is it part of your contract to be on Boards?

I'm sure you'll say that you are on a break or something but do you always adhere to the work/private separation in every instance? Do you use the company phone for any personal calls? Do you browse the internet on company time for personal reasons? Have you ever brought home a stapler or folder for you or done printing for tickets for a personal flight or concert or anything?

If I was your boss and you answered the above circumstance in that way, when it came time to your performance review, it would most definitely influence my view of you.

I’m not at work now no, I have just returned from a nice swim in fact, the aroma of a nice steak in coming from the oven, my feet are up and I’m relaxing.

I do use the work phone on occasion for personal calls, I’ve even used a personal phone for work calls. All within the scope of the policy.

I browse the internet on my own time.

I don’t use company stationery at home.

If what you have been told here would influence you negatively in scoring my performance review, you are not fit to occupy the position of manager or indeed any position with responsibility such as the one you allude to having.

You need to dispose of the aggression and show more empathy, common sense, understanding and intelligence as regards your role and the roles of those around you.

Tell me how

Strumms wrote: »

I’m not at work now no, I have just returned from a nice swim in fact, the aroma of a nice steak in coming from the oven, my feet are up and I’m relaxing.

I do use the work phone on occasion for personal calls, I’ve even used a personal phone for work calls. All within the scope of the policy.

I browse the internet on my own time.

I don’t use company stationery at home.

If what you have been told here would influence you negatively in scoring my performance review, you are not fit to occupy the position of manager or indeed any position with responsibility such as the one you allude to having.

You need to dispose of the aggression and show more empathy, common sense, understanding and intelligence as regards your role and the roles of those around you.

Blue bold. Sure. I believe you. This is the internet, our word is our bond.
Red bold. So, you want me to discount what you said as to how you would behave in a particular example pertaining to work.
Black bold. Doesn't make any sense in the content of this discussion. Was it meant for another thread?

Might be easier if you only post what you are comfortable with people responding to.

facehugger99

Your place of work should be defined in your contract of employment. If you are being asked to work in a different location, the additional commute time is part of your working day - even if you're not working during the commute.

I presume you entitled to travel expenses for what you are now doing?

jamesd

facehugger99 wrote: »

Your place of work should be defined in your contract of employment. If you are being asked to work in a different location, the additional commute time is part of your working day - even if you're not working during the commute.

I presume you entitled to travel expenses for what you are now doing?

Yes I am getting all my travel expenses plus a meal paid for.

hickory

It's worth having a chat with your manager, maybe getting time in lieu if not overtime. Just say you are losing hour a day versus working in your normal office and you just wanted to check out if this qualified for time in lieu or overtime. If you don't ask you'll never know, and if you are not demanding it your manager can have an open chat about it.

jamesd

Thanks very much all for advise ans views, I'll have a chat ans see where it goes.

facehugger99

jamesd wrote: »

Yes I am getting all my travel expenses plus a meal paid for.

That's good and it's also an acknowledgement by the company that you are not working in your normal place of employment - even if you don't have a formal contract.

I would be getting an earlier train home if you are not going to be paid overtime - you can suggest that you will do some work on the commute as a good will gesture but you are under no obligation to do this. If it was me I'd be reading, listening to music etc.

At the end of the day you are the one facilitating your employer by undertaking all this additional travel.

jamesd

Update, sat down today and I will be paid over time for any hours including train travel that are over my normal 8hr's.

my3cents

jamesd wrote: »

Update, sat down today and I will be paid over time for any hours including train travel that are over my normal 8hr's.

You sound like a fairly key member of your team