The new LDV EV30

Fox Hound

Pretty much think this is a game changer for EV Vans, LDV EV30 seems to be awesome!! Not out until 2020. 
Link here https://ldv.ie/ev30/

zilog_jones

Harris Group are the distributors for LDV in Ireland, they seem to have a reputation for treating their customers well so I would be surprised if they weren't confident that their products would sell. They were the ones who made Hino trucks commonplace in Ireland for decades (not so much recently due to them not meeting newer emissions standards).

Mike9832

70km of real world range?

How much are these vans?

Fox Hound

No price released yet, however on the LDV facebook page it says it will be similar price to its competitors! Great looking Van tho and the range, and the range is over 300km

56 Kwh and 45 min to 80 % ? seriously ? That's ok for a local delivery van sure but come on, not even AC charging figures. 3 phase AC charging would be expected this day and age.

zilog_jones

I'd imagine the main use case for these vans are for local delivery. I'm surprised they have any sort of fast charging.

Old diesel

I found an auto express article from April that said AC charging can take 5 hours.

Same article also spoke of two battery choices - 35 kwh and 56 kwh

Old diesel

Old diesel wrote: »

I found an auto express article from April that said AC charging can take 5 hours.

Same article also spoke of two battery choices - 35 kwh and 56 kwh

Probably 5 hrs on AC @7 Kw.

I'd hope the big Auto companies would do a hell of a lot better than that when they start producing electric vans which seems many years away........

Old diesel

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Probably 5 hrs on AC @7 Kw.

I'd hope the big Auto companies would do a hell of a lot better than that when they start producing electric vans which seems many years away........

Remember though that unlike Renault* - LDV do at least offer rapid charging.

So the van can easily top up while the driver has lunch etc - extending what it can do in the working day.

Even if this van is flawed - it's still a stepping stone to more electric vans.

*On vans

Old diesel

Old diesel wrote: »

Remember though that unlike Renault* - LDV do at least offer rapid charging.

So the van can easily top up while the driver has lunch etc - extending what it can do in the working day.

Even if this van is flawed - it's still a stepping stone to more electric vans.

*On vans

It is flawed , recharge times are critical for mass acceptance, unless the van is within most delivery drivers expected route then they won't drive it because they won't spend 45-50 mins waiting for an 80% charge and they'll have to be thousands more chargers too because there's no delivery driver going to queue for up to 1-2 hrs for a charge and then have to wait 45 mins to charge and longer with a cold battery.

+I don't think too many van drivers would be too happy about charging at home meaning DC is even more important.

redcup342

Deleted User wrote: »

Old diesel wrote: »

Remember though that unlike Renault* - LDV do at least offer rapid charging.

So the van can easily top up while the driver has lunch etc - extending what it can do in the working day.

Even if this van is flawed - it's still a stepping stone to more electric vans.

*On vans

It is flawed , recharge times are critical for mass acceptance, unless the van is within most delivery drivers expected route then they won't drive it because they won't spend 45-50 mins waiting for an 80% charge and they'll have to be thousands more chargers too because there's no delivery driver going to queue for up to 1-2 hrs for a charge and then have to wait 45 mins to charge and longer with a cold battery.

+I don't think too many van drivers would be too happy about charging at home meaning DC is even more important.

Works here in Dusseldorf, lots of local companies are using e-NV200's, since they are doing local city driving the 250 km range is enough.

Fox Hound

For a van, I don't see any other company on the market that can do what this will do. Plus, charging in-between deliveries is always an option, if the range is not suitable on first charge??

zilog_jones

I'm just guessing but I can't imagine most van drivers are doing more than 300 km a day. I don't think charging times is going to be as big a deal as people are making it out to be.

What van can do 200 let alone 300 kms ?

And I'd say there are a lot of couriers that regularly drive more than 200 kms a day.

Faster charging is essential, there isn't any van driver who is going to charge the van at home unless they own it for their business and I seriously doubt any van driver is going to want to charge up for 45 mins to 1 hr after work and an 80% charge will provide 20% less range unless they want to sit for potentially 20-30 mins more for a near 100% charge.

That is of course if they can get to charge when they get there and not have to queue.......

Horses for courses. With a range of 200+ km you can drive all day in Dublin for example without charging. I don't think this van targets for users who do a Dublin-Cork return daily ;-) There are better options on the market for that sort of thing.

kennethsmyth

Ehhh...guys I believe I have being seeing these ldv electric vans being used by an post in all there dublin deliveries, you dont really notice them other than the zero emission written on back (but its up high on vehicle so completely inconspicuous).

ted1

[Deleted User] wrote: »

What van can do 200 let alone 300 kms ?

And I'd say there are a lot of couriers that regularly drive more than 200 kms a day.

Faster charging is essential, there isn't any van driver who is going to charge the van at home unless they own it for their business and I seriously doubt any van driver is going to want to charge up for 45 mins to 1 hr after work and an 80% charge will provide 20% less range unless they want to sit for potentially 20-30 mins more for a near 100% charge.

That is of course if they can get to charge when they get there and not have to queue.......

Council van, clamper vans, Milk round vans, an post vans, ESB depot based vans, local delivery vans etc all would do less than 200 daily

josip

kennethsmyth wrote: »

Ehhh...guys I believe I have being seeing these ldv electric vans being used by an post in all there dublin deliveries, you dont really notice them other than the zero emission written on back (but its up high on vehicle so completely inconspicuous).

I can't imagine a more suitable business case for them than An Post, especially in Urban Areas.
Most companies operating a fleet from a base would surely have to consider mixing in EVs now for the lower range stuff?
The decrease in fuel and maintenance costs would justify it for a business?

zilog_jones

Yeah, most of the vans of that class I see on a daily basis around here are post, courier, council or infrastructure-related e.g. ESB Networks. I don't know the typical working day for a van like these but in most of those cases when I see them they're within 20 km of their depot. Cork City Council are already have some smaller EV vans (Renault Kangoo or similar), and An Post also have in the past (I haven't seen the LDV EVs in Cork yet but they had Kangoo ZE's for a while). If they're going to get more EVs they need to have their own charging infrastructure at their depots - they're not going to be relying on public chargers or home charging. Larger places probably have their own diesel pumps already, so having to provide their own fuelling infrastructure is not new to them.

ewj1978

Only other van on the market is the ENV200 from Nissan. With the 40kW battery she'd easily do 300km+ around a city.
Really don't know why transport companies aren't all over them.

40 Kwh ENv200 wouldn't be just doing city driving the driver would be on the M50, N11 etc with the foot down won't do anywhere near 300 Kms especially in Winter.

There's still the issue with charging, the van driver isn't going to charge at home and will want to fast charge, can anyone see a van driver plugging in every evening for 45 mins to 1 hr when the battery is cold ? I certainly can't. That's if they can get to charge but I suppose by the time we see decent electric vans there's be a lot more chargers but we're a very long way from having fleets of decent electric vans.

kennethsmyth

Deleted User wrote: »

40 Kwh ENv200 wouldn't be just doing city driving the driver would be on the M50, N11 etc with the foot down won't do anywhere near 300 Kms especially in Winter.

There's still the issue with charging, the van driver isn't going to charge at home and will want to fast charge, can anyone see a van driver plugging in every evening for 45 mins to 1 hr when the battery is cold ? I certainly can't. That's if they can get to charge but I suppose by the time we see decent electric vans there's be a lot more chargers but we're a very long way from having fleets of decent electric vans.

Ha ha foot down on M50, still max of 100km (when traffic allows!) An Post seem to think that a fleet of electric vans make perfect sense right now.

colm_mcm

LDV/Harris must have some pull in An Post. Otherwise they must have massively discounted the V80s

redcup342

Deleted User wrote: »

40 Kwh ENv200 wouldn't be just doing city driving the driver would be on the M50, N11 etc with the foot down won't do anywhere near 300 Kms especially in Winter.

There's still the issue with charging, the van driver isn't going to charge at home and will want to fast charge, can anyone see a van driver plugging in every evening for 45 mins to 1 hr when the battery is cold ? I certainly can't. That's if they can get to charge but I suppose by the time we see decent electric vans there's be a lot more chargers but we're a very long way from having fleets of decent electric vans.

You wouldn't be plugging in every 1 hour, it would be more like every 3-4 hours driving in City Traffic. 

And the M50 is a rolling car park anyway.

zilog_jones

colm_mcm wrote: »

LDV/Harris must have some pull in An Post. Otherwise they must have massively discounted the V80s

Why, are they bad? They're not the prettiest things on the road, but that's not really that important for a van. I don't know what they're like to use, or in terms of reliability, etc. Maybe Chinese vehicles are finally good enough? I'd imagine Harris wouldn't be the type to sell junk...

redcup342

redcup342 wrote: »

You wouldn't be plugging in every 1 hour, it would be more like every 3-4 hours driving in City Traffic. 

And the M50 is a rolling car park anyway.

The M50 is a car park but mostly at peak traffic which Post drivers would be mainly driving off peak.

I'm not saying it wouldn't work but a few problems have to be over come first and charging speed is a huge one because they will have to return to the depot every evening to recharge unless they're given an allowance for charging at home then I would say it would work pretty well because the fuel costs would be dramatically reduced.

Even out here in the sticks a 40 Kwh small van could work if they are given an allowance for charging at home.

colm_mcm

zilog_jones wrote: »

Why, are they bad? They're not the prettiest things on the road, but that's not really that important for a van. I don't know what they're like to use, or in terms of reliability, etc. Maybe Chinese vehicles are finally good enough? I'd imagine Harris wouldn't be the type to sell junk...

It’s a 2004 model. It was initially developed by Daewoo then they went bust, then LDV bought the tooling and they went bust, now SAIC are making them.
They weren’t anywhere near class leading in 2004. Safety would be on a different planet to the likes of a Crafter or Transit.
They are cheap though.

I admire what they’re doing with electric vans and this newer small van looks a lot more modern.

Should also be noted that the Co2 figures for the V80 are 40% higher than a full size Transit.

bk

Mad_Lad, big fleet operators like An Post, etc. track all their fleets with GPS and know what range they do every day. So they have a very good idea what will and won't work.

Of course a van with this range won't work for all routes, the most rural routes. But it should work fine for most of their urban routes and they will know that from the tracking. They will put these vans just in areas and on routes which have sufficient range.

zilog_jones

colm_mcm wrote: »

It’s a 2004 model. It was initially developed by Daewoo then they went bust, then LDV bought the tooling and they went bust, now SAIC are making them.
They weren’t anywhere near class leading in 2004. Safety would be on a different planet to the likes of a Crafter or Transit.
They are cheap though.

I admire what they’re doing with electric vans and this newer small van looks a lot more modern.

Should also be noted that the Co2 figures for the V80 are 40% higher than a full size Transit.

An Post were still buying Renault 4 vans in the early '90s, so maybe they just don't care about most of those things...

colm_mcm

zilog_jones wrote: »

An Post were still buying Renault 4 vans in the early '90s, so maybe they just don't care about most of those things...

Buy electric vans as well as diesel ones that have huge Co2 emissions compared to similar vans.

If they replaced the V80s with Transits for example they would reduce their carbon emissions on those vans by 40%

Anyway they're much larger than your average post van.

Why not the 40 Kwh E-Nv200 ?

ted1

bk wrote: »

Mad_Lad, big fleet operators like An Post, etc. track all their fleets with GPS and know what range they do every day. So they have a very good idea what will and won't work.

.

^^^ this, That’s exactly how ESB choose which depots got EVs. South lots road got several as the vans just potter around the ringsend area.