Why do we keep voting in brutal governments?

Sunny Disposition

Leo Varadkar, a bit of a spoiled pompous out of touch millennial jackass is Taoiseach. Why? Brian Cowen was Taoiseach, as was Bertie Ahern, as was Charlie Haughey. Why don’t we vote in the likes of Michael D Higgins or the woman who set up Pieta House or someone like that?

Former Observer

Sunny Disposition wrote: »

Leo Varadkar, a bit of a spoiled pompous out of touch millennial jackass is Taoiseach. Why? Brian Cowen was Taoiseach, as was Bertie Ahern, as was Charlie Haughey. Why don’t we vote in the likes of Michael D Higgins or the woman who set up Pieta House or someone like that?

Ryan Tubridy would make a great Taoiseach I always felt. Very charismatic individual.

Stanford

We are hardly spoiled for choice in the quality of our politicians

Greyfox

Its hard to avoid when 90% of politicians are overpaid ar**holes

kneemos

Who would you like?

Sir Guy who smiles

Sunny Disposition wrote: »

Leo Varadkar, a bit of a spoiled pompous out of touch millennial jackass is Taoiseach. Why? Brian Cowen was Taoiseach, as was Bertie Ahern, as was Charlie Haughey. Why don’t we vote in the likes of Michael D Higgins or the woman who set up Pieta House or someone like that?

People have busy lives, and few of us can free up the time required to teach you the intricacies of parliamentary democracy.

Stanford

Why don't vote in the Taoiseach and we did vote in Michael D

kneemos

kneemos wrote: »

Who would you like?

A Taoiseach put to the public vote.

TheValeyard

What is the alternative? Seriously? They are all a bunch of dehydrated cabbages.

kneemos

[Deleted User] wrote: »

A Taoiseach put to the public vote.

What difference would that make?

Anyway we're doing great. Issues in some areas,but every country has problems.

gctest50

Sunny Disposition wrote: »

.........

or the woman who set up Pieta House or someone like that?

That c**t ?

I made our lord the financial manager of pieta house

https://mobile.twitter.com/newsworthy_ie/status/1036994445118464000?lang=en



.

Stanford

""Anyway we're doing great"......I'm off

kneemos

kneemos wrote: »

What difference would that make?

It would constitute democracy.

Aska

It really is the parish pump stuff. We constantly vote in children of politicans who pass away suddenly, every election this happens.

The 3 cllrs from primetime got back in along with some 88 (i think) year old from Donegal like tgat guy is going to do alot but the locals love them.

Aska

Aska wrote: »

We constantly vote in children of politicans who pass away suddenly, every election this happens.

We need to do away with this "he comes from dacent stock" nonsense. Competence should outweigh familiarity.

Popeleo

Politics everywhere attracts many a-holes and sociopaths due to all the possible power and money - and we vote for them! And then we expect a normal, caring individual to rise to the top of that shark tank, become leader and give good governance.

So don't vote for brutal politicians.

JupiterKid

The current government are one of the most inept and out of touch in my opinion, and in my 44 years I’ve seen a lot of governments come and go, most pretty bad.

Leo and Co are arrogant, smug, shallow, utterly lacking in vision and imagination and their handling of the housing and health crises is nothing short of scandalous.

The mid 1990s Rainbow Coalition was one of the best governments this country ever had. The laid a lot of the foundations for the Celtic Tiger and Ireland’s transition from one of Western Europe’s poorest countries to one of its richest.

The Tetrarch

Let's build a Dail with a few million seats.
We can all go in there and vote on every issue.
Now that's democracy. :rolleyes:

The Tetrarch

JupiterKid wrote: »

The mid 1990s Rainbow Coalition was one of the best governments this country ever had. The laid a lot of the foundations for the Celtic Tiger and Ireland’s transition from one of Western Europe’s poorest countries to one of its richest.

And then we found out we were broke and owed billions.

Red_Wake

All the nice guy politicians do everything they can to avoid making the hard decisions which need to be done, having one as Taoiseach would put the country to rack and ruin.

Micheal D. is a case in point, pissed about from one political non-job to another. A lifelong career in politics with being involved in the founding of TG4 being his main political achievement says all that needs to be said.

Lantus

Because ironically we don't have a choice.

Bad system, good idea 100 years ago but can't be taken seriously today.

is_that_so

Sunny Disposition wrote: »

Leo Varadkar, a bit of a spoiled pompous out of touch millennial jackass is Taoiseach. Why? Brian Cowen was Taoiseach, as was Bertie Ahern, as was Charlie Haughey. Why don’t we vote in the likes of Michael D Higgins or the woman who set up Pieta House or someone like that?

The Dail votes for the Taoiseach. If you get enough votes you're in. Varadkar, Cowen, Ahern etc all did.

Tell me how

We don't do at all badly in my view.

By comparison.

• USA - A terrible two party focused, funder driven media circus leading to disastrous healthcare costs and massive student debt as well as a huge number living in poverty.
• UK - An absolute sh*tshow for the last 3 years
• NI - Record for longest period without functioning legislative assembly
• France - For at least ten years the country has been dominated by various levels of political unrest and protests
• Italy - Has had 61 governments since WW2
• Australia - NO PM has served full 3 year term since 2007
• Belgium - Previous record for longest period without functioning legislative assembly
• Russia - Really??
• China - Great bunch of lads (as long as you don't look at all closely)

I don't know what exactly people expect from a Government or Taoiseach. Ministers are appointed but to lead entrenched civil service bodies and semi-state organisations which are made up of Joe Public. Every one in the country complains about the health service. 1 in 10 workers in the country work for the HSE (either directly or contracted). How many of them are willing to see changes which would affect their position?
We have such frequent elections and have so many people working for government organisations that we need to accept that we get the government which we, the people want to have.

I'm not excusing all parish pump actions, poor accountability, non-disclosure, dragging of feet or so on (of which there are plenty) but, it is much bigger than just saying we need a new Taoiseach. I rate Leo for the most part as a kind of 'meh' Taoiseach, but, he is intelligent and experienced in politics and we, as a country have done very well so far in the whole Brexit fun and games. We managed to not shoot ourselves in the foot having a pointless GE 18 months ago and those front and centre for us on Brexit have represented us very well. Also, the OP must forget that Michael D was a stalwart in the Dail for the greatest part of his career.

kneemos

[Deleted User] wrote: »

It would constitute democracy.

Would they fix the health service or build tens of thousands of properties overnight?

kneemos

kneemos wrote: »

Would they fix the health service or build tens of thousands of properties overnight?

Shift the goalposts all you want, I'm not playing. Anyway, we're doing great...nothing to see here.

is_that_so

Lantus wrote: »

Because ironically we don't have a choice.

Bad system, good idea 100 years ago but can't be taken seriously today.

Pretty sure most representative systems do it this way.

Gimme A Pound

What do you suggest OP? People are always quick to throw it this "we" stuff but I've never seen them offer an alternative.

It's simple - poor calibre of politician who has good PR skills to market themselves to folk who want to use their vote and want change.

kneemos

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Shift the goalposts all you want, I'm not biting. Anyway, we're doing great...nothing to see here.

Just asking what difference an elected Taoiseach would make.

kneemos

kneemos wrote: »

Just asking what difference an elected Taoiseach would make.

And then you veered off on a tangent. An elected Taoiseach would ward off smug complacency a la Leo Varadkar, a kick up the backside to do their job properly and discourage cheap photo ops.

branie2

Because we don't know any better

One eyed Jack

JupiterKid wrote: »

The current government are one of the most inept and out of touch in my opinion, and in my 44 years I’ve seen a lot of governments come and go, most pretty bad.

Leo and Co are arrogant, smug, shallow, utterly lacking in vision and imagination and their handling of the housing and health crises is nothing short of scandalous.

The mid 1990s Rainbow Coalition was one of the best governments this country ever had. The laid a lot of the foundations for the Celtic Tiger and Ireland’s transition from one of Western Europe’s poorest countries to one of its richest.

Not a pop at you or anything JK but this is exactly why we keep voting in politicians that make as though they could actually deliver on their promises of the sun, moon and stars.

Leo and Co while they are deserving of criticism (and I’m not a fan of politicians generally speaking), they are undoubtedly in touch with the general public and who is responsible for keeping them in power. Undoubtedly there have been a few PR gaffes, but for the most part they’ve put in a pretty solid performance of acting like they give a damn what people think of them.

A Government laid the foundations for the Celtic Tiger? How is that possibly a good thing? It led to people having access to credit they could only ever have dreamed of, and people are still smarting from the effects of it today living in an overinflated economy which is anything but one of the wealthiest countries in Europe! In reality it’s one of the most expensive countries in Europe.

The phrase “all fur coat and no knickers” comes to mind tbh, purely because Leo and Co know how to appeal to people’s egos in order to maintain their popularity - allow people to feel as though they are wealthy, and they won’t complain about the fact that the current Government are still doing what every Government before them has done in order to keep the economy afloat - essentially robbing Peter to pay Paul, and switching positions every couple of years while the policies of all the main political parties essentially remains the same.

suicide_circus

Leo is a reflection of the wider society; his moral compass is set by sticking his finger in the air to check which way the wind is blowing.

kneemos

Leo is grand. An affable enough lad for the job.

nthclare

suicide_circus wrote: »

Leo is a reflection of the wider society; his moral compass is set by sticking his finger in the air to check which way the wind is blowing.

Have you ever seen him raving?

kneemos

kneemos wrote: »

Leo is grand. An affable enough lad for the job.

I'm not having a pop at you but this "shure he's grand" mentality is regressive. Either that, or you're on the wind-up.

is_that_so

suicide_circus wrote: »

Leo is a reflection of the wider society; his moral compass is set by sticking his finger in the air to check which way the wind is blowing.

Both Martin and Adams were nominated as well at the the time.

Chris_5339762

I don't like everything the current lot have done but they have steered the company fairly well out of the recession, despite some utter and complete bile from certain parts of the populace.

And more than anything, they gained my respect. When the UK started imploding, the two leaders basically came together and said "we don't agree on everything, but lets keep things on course, and lets present a united front until Brexit is done". Can you imagine the Conservatives and Labour doing the same in the UK if we were leaving.

kneemos

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I'm not having a pop at you but this "shure he's grand" mentality is regressive. Either that, or you're on the wind-up.

Who would you like?

ToddyDoody

kneemos wrote: »

Who would you like?

How about Colm Meaney? He's quite popular.

Sephiroth_dude

Mod

reopened

astrofool

Not sure why anyone thinks Michael D would be a good Taoiseach, he made one promise when running for president, and didn't keep it. The job of the president is to look presidential, and he manages that well enough.

Politicians are politicians the world over, they are not experts in running a country or in the numerous committees or departments they run, their job is to get re-elected, and they do it fairly well (if they happen to run the country well on the side of that, then it's a bonus for them).

To look at it another way, the health service has had money thrown at it for years, with very little improvements, but does a decent job at keeping people alive when sick, there is much worse and much better systems in the world. To improve it would mean getting rid of everyone currently working there, and re-hiring from scratch (many of the same people, but many wouldn't get a new job), yet the time is currently spent negotiating with unions over increments and allowances as they all take turns to strike.

Housing is another basketcase, those calling for social housing and building today, were calling for an end to all construction 10 years ago during the recession, we had enough housing supply for a century, and why do we need developers to build houses. Every reaction to the system has been to protect those who don't pay their way, and they wonder why people don't want to rent or build houses. Every repossession is a house on the market for the current "homeless".

feargale

[Deleted User] wrote: »

A Taoiseach put to the public vote.

And what would you say if that produced a Donald Trump rather than somebody tried and tested by years of political experience and years of being subject to public scrutiny? Look at polls for the greatest Irishman ever and see the people who scored highly because they could kick a ball or play a flute.

Tell me how

Deleted User wrote: »

It would constitute democracy.

You can't have management by committee. I think the structures we have are not at all bad. (I would like to see better use made of the Seanad).

Going for a directly elected Taoiseach would mean re-inventing our system as focus would shift to just playing to whoever you think is going to get that job.

It would inevitably lead to a populist character getting the job and I don't think there is any evidence that that would be a good thing.

KaneToad

I don't see why people feel they have to 'like' the Taoiseach. I don't give a toss about Vradkars personality or likeability - I want him to run the country, I don't want to date him.

I'd rate the current govt as a safe pair of hands. A few f-ups along the way but they have done relatively well considering the $hitshow they inherited. Not much difference between FG political outlook & FF political outlook...the obvious one, in my opinion, is that FG wouldn't have 'led' the country over the cliff like FF did.

Ultimately, Irish people prefer FF because they give out more goodies. We will vote them back in again (not next GE, but one after). They will slowly run country into ground again and FG will return to pick up the pieces.

Lather, rinse, repeat...

jaxxx

KaneToad wrote: »

I don't see why people feel they have to 'like' the Taoiseach. I don't give a toss about Vradkars personality or likeability - I want him to run the country, I don't want to date him.

I'd rate the current govt as a safe pair of hands. A few f-ups along the way but they have done relatively well considering the $hitshow they inherited. Not much difference between FG political outlook & FF political outlook...the obvious one, in my opinion, is that FG wouldn't have 'led' the country over the cliff like FF did.

Ultimately, Irish people prefer FF because they give out more goodies. We will vote them back in again (not next GE, but one after). They will slowly run country into ground again and FG will return to pick up the pieces.

Lather, rinse, repeat...

That's exactly what's going to happen, or certainly the most likely to happen at least. People collectively, are stupid. One of my favourite movie quotes is from Men in Black: "A person is smart; people are dumb, panicky, dangerous animals". I know people who will only ever vote FF because their own parents did, or they've always voted for them, or some similar ridiculous excuse like that. In fact I think everyone knows people like that. I haven't voted FF or FG in years and vow to never vote for them again. Not unless hell freezes over and an actual leader emerges among them with the integrity to put the country first and their own pockets second.

JohnnyFlash

The vast vast majority of politicians are inherently decent and hardworking people with a deep sense of civic duty. They come from their communities and represent the wishes of the electorate who vote them in. That’s democracy.

We’ve also gone from being the poorest country in Europe when we joined the EEC in 1972 to being:

Rated the 4th in the world for living conditions under the UN Human Development Index. Living conditions have improved faster in Ireland than anywhere else in the world over the past five years according to them.

One of the wealthiest countries in the world.

15th in the world for Journalistic Freedom.

18th in the world for Corruption Perception Index

Fastest growing economy in Europe


We live in an extraordinary country. Of course there are issues, some of them of our own making, and some of them due to wider macro economic issues. You’d think from some of the 18 hour a day moaners on this site that we lived in Moldova though. They haven’t a clue.

Franz Von Peppercorn II

I’d vote for a sane left party myself. The Labour Party of old. That rainbow coalition. The present left are a rabble. A anti tax anti housing development pro homeless group of wombats.

Sinn Fein are Sinn Fein. There are few options.

ILoveYourVibes

lola85 wrote: »

250,000 homeless in Germany.

about 10k homeless in Ireland with a population of 5 million

250 k homeless in Germany with a population of 82 million

That means one in 500 people in Ireland is homeless.

Whereas one in 328 people in germany are.

astrofool

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

about 10k homeless in Ireland with a population of 5 million

250 k homeless in Germany with a population of 82 million

That means one in 500 people in Ireland is homeless.

Whereas one in 328 people in germany are.

So more are homeless in Germany (and Sweden), not sure of your point.

Tell me how

astrofool wrote: »

So more are homeless in Germany (and Sweden), not sure of your point.

Point is we're not doing too bad, comparatively speaking.

rossie1977

Unemployment rate in 2012 = 16%
Unemployment rate in June 2019 = 4.4%

Expected GDP growth in Ireland is 8.3% in 2019

First budget surplus in 2018 in a decade.

I said it in another thread but if the current government were American especially Republican, Fox News and right wing radio, Youtubers, bloggers/vloggers etc would be proclaiming Leo an all time great..