Queuing etiquette, fast charger / slow charger

kmc25_1

So buddy of mine came back to his car when fast charging last night. When he got there there were 2 other drivers there. One was on the slow charger. Driver two was waiting for any free charger. When my friend was unplugging he could hear the other drivers discussing who gets the fast charger. What do people of boards think?
Apparently the discussion revolved around who had to go where. Both thought their journey needed the fast charger.

ELM327

Whoever was there first of the 2.

fricatus

I would think that all else being equal, it's first come, first served. If you're second along and have plugged in on the AC connector, you should by rights get the CCS or ChaDeMo connector once the first driver has freed it up. The third person can wait or plug into the AC.

Tempering that, personally I would give way to the other person if they were in a hurry or had passengers (especially kids). I'd also expect if I did, that they'd only take enough juice to get them to where they were going. If they were pulling a very slow charge at a high percentage, I'd consider that taking the p155 and tell them they'd be better off moving to an AC charger.

ELM327

I wouldn't engage in any of that, it's first come first served.

Mickeroo

I'd happily let someone go ahead of me if their need was greater and I was in no rush but first come first served should be a given in general.

eddhorse

Mickeroo wrote: »

I'd happily let someone go ahead of me if their need was greater and I was in no rush but first come first served should be a given in general.

Agreed i would plug in first and then see what their situation is.

Soarer

This thread won't end well.

But for the record, I agree with fricatus, Mickeroo and eddhorse.

slave1

First come first serve at fast charger unless the later of the two was in greater need and was sound in their "request" to jump the queue.
At a slow charger absolutely first come first serve

Shefwedfan

First come first served....

If the first person to arrive wants to give up fast charger to another person that is their decision.....personally I wouldn't bother as everyone has some sob story :-)

kanuseeme

Charging for charging will eliminate all this, I believe

slave1

kanuseeme wrote: »

Charging for charging will eliminate all this, I believe

to a degree...

Shefwedfan

kanuseeme wrote: »

Charging for charging will eliminate all this, I believe

Multiple chargers at locations will reduce this. The approach of a single charger in one location and then none for miles was idiotic and should never have been introduced.



Yes people having to pay will also reduce the freeloaders off the network but large sites with multiple chargers is best, as shown in every other country in Europe

kaahooters

first come, first served, its the only way it can work.

fricatus

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Yes people having to pay will also reduce the freeloaders off the network but large sites with multiple chargers is best, as shown in every other country in Europe

And a single head on the charger too - like the Ionity CCS ones. More than once I've been plugged in on CCS on the triple headers, and then someone in a Leaf comes along, starts ChaDeMo, and then I get kicked off. :mad:

Pretty sure that's not supposed to happen, but it has. Twice, it was sound women who were mortified and stopped their charge right away to allow me to continue. Another time it was this pr1ck who even took the CCS cable out of my car with the comment "you probably had enough anyway, there are other people queueing". There were, with local license plates, I'll say no more.

kanuseeme

fricatus wrote: »

And a single head on the charger too - like the Ionity CCS ones. More than once I've been plugged in on CCS on the triple headers, and then someone in a Leaf comes along, starts ChaDeMo, and then I get kicked off. :mad:

Pretty sure that's not supposed to happen, but it has. Twice, it was sound women who were mortified and stopped their charge right away to allow me to continue. Another time it was this pr1ck who even took the CCS cable out of my car with the comment "you probably had enough anyway, there are other people queueing". There were, with local license plates, I'll say no more.

I would disagree with the single head, the charger itself should give to the first car as much as the car can handle and any thing remaining should go to the 2nd car. 2 people can be happy then.

The cables are locked in how did he remove it?

irishgrover

firs come first served, regardless of all else. If others want to allow people to go ahead of them due to circumstance than that is nice of them. However there should be no expectation of anything other than 1st come 1st served by any party

Round Cable

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Multiple chargers at locations will reduce this. The approach of a single charger in one location and then none for miles was idiotic and should never have been introduced.

Yes people having to pay will also reduce the freeloaders off the network but large sites with multiple chargers is best, as shown in every other country in Europe

Absolutely, there are very few petrol/diesel stations with a single pump. And to be fair it is the ultimate form of fast charging, so to have a single charge point where refuelling can take 30 minute to over an hour is not a great idea. When they were building the network originally, they would probably have been better to group multiple rapid chargers at one site, and keep the overall number of units in the country.

Overheal

Mortal combat would settle this.

Shefwedfan

Round Cable wrote: »

Absolutely, there are very few petrol/diesel stations with a single pump. And to be fair it is the ultimate form of fast charging, so to have a single charge point where refuelling can take 30 minute to over an hour is not a great idea. When they were building the network originally, they would probably have been better to group multiple rapid chargers at one site, and keep the overall number of units in the country.

I would guess they tried to cover more of the country so done a single charger per location.

What they should have done was multiple chargers in single locations and base in high population areas. Even with trying to cover most of the country with single charge points they have huge gaps and then even bigger gaps with the loss of a single charge point.



Whichever genius came up with the single charger per location should be sacked and retired.....

creedp

Shefwedfan wrote: »

I would guess they tried to cover more of the country so done a single charger per location.

What they should have done was multiple chargers in single locations and base in high population areas. Even with trying to cover most of the country with single charge points they have huge gaps and then even bigger gaps with the loss of a single charge point.



Whichever genius came up with the single charger per location should be sacked and retired.....

Starting off with single chargers per site was probably an OK strategy when there was only a handful of EVs in the country. The problem was not bringing additional units on stream, even though some sites already have the necessary infrastructure in place to operate multiple units, to cater for increased demand as the number of EV's has increased dramatically in recent years.

KCross

The current network was a pilot project from 2011 which was time and budget limited (hence the single charger per location) and never intended to serve the market as it is now.

It was a superb network in its day when there were only a few hundred EV's. Wholly inadequate now and it should have been updated years ago but the regulator fell asleep at the wheel and eCars had no incentive to pump in their money when they had nothing to get back out.

ELM327

KCross wrote: »

The current network was a pilot project from 2011 which was time and budget limited (hence the single charger per location) and never intended to serve the market as it is now.

It was a superb network in its day when there were only a few hundred EV's. Wholly inadequate now and it should have been updated years ago but the regulator fell asleep at the wheel and eCars had no incentive to pump in their money when they had nothing to get back out.

Not only was it time and budget limited it was also location limited. Hence the ridiculous locations for fast chargers (none on the N7 but one in Tesco, also blanch and lucan etc) as it was essentially a case of putting them wherever the landowner agreed.


It was grand then (back 3-4 years ago when I had my first EV there were rarely queues, even in Dublin/GDA)

September1

Back when when network started there was only LEAF and triplets on the market, so very small and short range vehicles where you would need to frequently fast charge. From this perspective it was better to have denser network of single chargers, then clusters like Ionity - this meant that more areas of the country were accessible to EVs.

Fiery mutant

fricatus wrote: »

And a single head on the charger too - like the Ionity CCS ones. More than once I've been plugged in on CCS on the triple headers, and then someone in a Leaf comes along, starts ChaDeMo, and then I get kicked off. :mad:

Pretty sure that's not supposed to happen, but it has. Twice, it was sound women who were mortified and stopped their charge right away to allow me to continue. Another time it was this pr1ck who even took the CCS cable out of my car with the comment "you probably had enough anywajy, there are other people queueing". There were, with local license plates, I'll say no more.

I hate pricks like this. Emergency stop button would have been my response here.

DrPhilG

KCross wrote: »

The current network was a pilot project from 2011 which was time and budget limited (hence the single charger per location)

Yet eCars have been putting in shiny new triple heads in numerous locations, and removing perfectly functional rapids at the same time. Rather than installing the new ones alongside the old. And they consistently refuse to explain why.

DrPhilG

kmc25_1 wrote: »

So buddy of mine came back to his car when fast charging last night.

If your buddy was registered on the needtocharge app then the 2 waiting could have contacted him for an update on his time of departure.

The app will never resolve the likes of the asshole mentioned earlier who physically unplugged someone because "they probably had enough" but for a situation where there is a queue of amicable users, the app works a treat.

liamog

DrPhilG wrote: »

Yet eCars have been putting in shiny new triple heads in numerous locations, and removing perfectly functional rapids at the same time. Rather than installing the new ones alongside the old. And they consistently refuse to explain why.

They are removing the older models because they have difficulty maintaining them. There were a couple of times faults occurred and it took way too long for them to be resolved due to lack of spare parts.

The biggest expense at rapid charger sites is the grid connection. Replacing the charger is a relatively straightforward operation, I'd expect that they need to upgrade the grid connection to add extra chargers. Fastned were much smarter they over specced their connection to ensure that they could easily expand.

redcup342

I never arrive with less than 40km range remaining at a Rapid Charger, anytime i've come to stations that are in use I just drive onto the Next one. 

Once I did have a guy waiting as he was down to 2 km left or something, I just needed 10 minutes of Rapid to get to my destination and then plug in there on an AC anyways (with a 40 km buffer) 

Ireland doesn't sound like it's very good, in Germany now it's common to have a Rapid on almost every motorway stop with some having 10x 175 kw Ionity Chargers.

beanian

If i arrive and a Kona has just started fast charging I could be waiting up 50 mins. Is it acceptable to occupy the other EV parking spot while I wait potentially blocking someone from slow charging off the AC43?

kanuseeme

Don't worry too much about it, he could only be there 10 minutes or an hour either way, your next. Charging for charging whenever it comes in, will make the greedy BEV drivers move on quick enough.

If I saw someone struggling to connect to the AC 43, I would try to help.

zg3409

beanian wrote: »

If i arrive and a Kona has just started fast charging I could be waiting up 50 mins. Is it acceptable to occupy the other EV parking spot while I wait potentially blocking someone from slow charging off the AC43?

If you have a type 2 socket then charge slowly on AC43 while waiting (most chargers can do AC plus DC at same time, but be sure to stay with car or leave phone number/email/needtocharge sticker so if a Zoe turns up they can contact you immediately. I also have a sign with time I intend returning. If you are not there when other car finishes expect someone else to nip in. If you are not there you loose all queuing (moral) rights.

babybuilder

hi
I'm going to Croker tomorrow and hoping to charge while I'm at the match. Has anyone ever parked / charged at the street charger on Hollybank Road in Drumcondra? The ecars map shows that it is operational but I've discovered in the past this can be wrong. Thanks

KCross

babybuilder wrote: »

hi
I'm going to Croker tomorrow and hoping to charge while I'm at the match. Has anyone ever parked / charged at the street charger on Hollybank Road in Drumcondra? The ecars map shows that it is operational but I've discovered in the past this can be wrong. Thanks

I dont know about that one but I recently used the one on North Wall (53.347047, -6.232083) during match day and its an easy spin out the Long Mile Road from there... depends on what direction you want to go I suppose.

ELM327

Wouldnt rely on anything SCP related near croker on a match day

babybuilder

Drove down from Donegal in a leaf 40. Fast charged in Monaghan for 30 minutes. Arrived in hollybank road to see a leaf struggling to get parked at the charger due to ice parking. I think the leaf ended up on the pavement. Parked up nearby. After the match went to two different fast chargers. One had egolf charging and so I couldn't use chademo the other at lusk was in use despite eCars map showing available. Got to clonshaugh road FC and charged up for 40 mins. 30 mins at Monaghan again on way back up road. Weather brutal. Whatever about introducing pay for charging argument (1) the infrastructure is crap. (2) the leaf 40 is useless for 150+ mile or longer trips.

Although mine has the latest BMS update. The second charge was taking 40kw at 55% and on its third charge was still taking 30+ kw charging at 50% and the temperature was nearly at first red line.

Silent Running

Hypothetically... you arrive at a destination charger with 2 sockets. A car is plugged in to the only socket that's working (because the second socket hasn't worked in 2 years:rolleyes:). The car is fully charged according to the indicator lights.

Do you...

Unplug the other car, leave the cable coiled up tidily and connect your car for a charge.

Drive on with the hope that you'll find a working, available charger.

Sit and wait for a while to see if the driver returns.

If you were the car plugged in and you came back to your car unplugged, would you...

Accept that you've had a full charge and be happy that the other driver unplugged you.

Have a tantrum and get all huffy, ruining the rest of your day.

Key the car of the bastard that dared to touch your cable.



I would unplug a charged car and leave the cable tidy, and if I returned to my car to find it unplugged, I would be happy enough if it was fully charged.

Shefwedfan

The level of discussion about charge points seem to be very high in Ireland compared to other countries. I see some of the facebook groups and the forum is just full of posts about charge points.

I am feeling left out by not posting.

I don't see the same discussion in other countries. Not to the level we see in Ireland. Yes the network ain't great but seriously we have to have better things to discuss than a charge point.

eddhorse

Shefwedfan wrote: »

The level of discussion about charge points seem to be very high in Ireland compared to other countries. I see some of the facebook groups and the forum is just full of posts about charge points.

I am feeling left out by not posting.

I don't see the same discussion in other countries. Not to the level we see in Ireland. Yes the network ain't great but seriously we have to have better things to discuss than a charge point.

But its a common problem and its a discussion forum?

rivegauche

All the 100 charging spots in work today are mostly occupied by GLCs, 330e, 530e, Passats of which most are black or grey metallic. Only one ICE car that I could see.
Reason: It is the hottest week of the year so far with temperatures between 35 and 40 degrees and the multi-storey car park will keep their cars cool until they leave work this afternoon.
Inconsiderate sods. some didn't even bother with the pretence of plugging in their cables.
A 22kwh zoe and a leaf were rolling around in the forlorn hope that they might find a spot.
First world problems.

kanuseeme

Early bird catches the worm, in fairness who wants to see a BMW baking in the sun, impressive amount of chargers, I can hope for a time, when all parking spaces have a charger.

DrPhilG

Silent Running wrote: »

Hypothetically... you arrive at a destination charger with 2 sockets.
Do you...

Unplug the other car

1 - I hate the term destination charger. People seem to accept that you should be able to use it for as long as you want, even if that's 12+ hours. Blocking it for a day shouldn't be acceptable.

2 - at a "destination charger" the cable stays locked even after the charge ends, to prevent cable theft.

this.lad

Shefwedfan wrote: »

The level of discussion about charge points seem to be very high in Ireland compared to other countries. I see some of the facebook groups and the forum is just full of posts about charge points.

I am feeling left out by not posting.

I don't see the same discussion in other countries. Not to the level we see in Ireland. Yes the network ain't great but seriously we have to have better things to discuss than a charge point.

I recently joined the Facebook pages. Have unfollowed them and may leave altogether.

If I didn't have have an EV looking at some of the carry on on there I would never buy one.

Thankfully, boards is more balanced. Payment for charging is badly needed, it will stop hogging, and hopefully provide a revenue stream for improvement.

At 5x the price of home charging hopefully more people will go that route and ease the problems.

kanuseeme

this.lad wrote: »

I recently joined the Facebook pages. Have unfollowed them and may leave altogether.

If I didn't have have an EV looking at some of the carry on on there I would never buy one.

Thankfully, boards is more balanced. Payment for charging is badly needed, it will stop hogging, and hopefully provide a revenue stream for improvement.

At 5x the price of home charging hopefully more people will go that route and ease the problems.

Honestly I do not know, look at it this way, you have a piece of equipment, the more its used the more profit it makes, if you charge too much, then people will not use it, or just enough to get home etc.

if you plug in and the price is reasonable, if your need is only 10 minutes worth of charge, another 10 minutes is not going to kill you, they get the sale of an extra few kWh.

Then another person comes and see the first and thinks hogger and complains on facebook or boards.

this.lad

kanuseeme wrote: »

Honestly I do not know, look at it this way, you have a piece of equipment, the more its used the more profit it makes, if you charge too much, then people will not use it, or just enough to get home etc.

if you plug in and the price is reasonable, if your need is only 10 minutes worth of charge, another 10 minutes is not going to kill you, they get the sale of an extra few kWh.

Then another person comes and see the first and thinks hogger and complains on facebook or boards.

I know there's no winning at all really. I haven't used a public charger in about 18 months so maybe I don't understand it fully.

Old diesel

Shefwedfan wrote: »

The level of discussion about charge points seem to be very high in Ireland compared to other countries. I see some of the facebook groups and the forum is just full of posts about charge points.

I am feeling left out by not posting.

I don't see the same discussion in other countries. Not to the level we see in Ireland. Yes the network ain't great but seriously we have to have better things to discuss than a charge point.

The problem with charge points is that it directly impacts the usability of the cars.

Particularly problematic are journeys just out of round trip range from home.

So your 170 km trip in winter in an Ioniq* that is 160 km safe range.

Easy availability of RELIABLE charging makes a massive difference in that scenario. Gives the driver confidence to make the trip. Reduces the need to keep an ICE car "for long trips".

There are three angles to charge point upset.....

1) the EV enthusiast who just wants EVs to be able to work well. They know that EVs can work if charging available as needed but Ireland is sub par.

2) the driver who gave EVs a go but ran into issues getting the car charged on a trip - and now have lost faith in the EV.

3) people taking the urine in how they use chargers by leaving cars on a rapid for too long etc.

Chargers CAN be done better then we do them in Ireland - so yes it's an area of frustration.

*Example to illustrate

Old diesel

In countries like Scotland, Holland and Norway - the infrastructure seems better, so you will certainly unsurprisingly see charge points less widely discussed negatively.

Folk in Dundee are a lot less likely to run into "can't charge my car" issues then someone trying to use public charging in Cork or Dublin.

Shefwedfan

Old diesel wrote: »

The problem with charge points is that it directly impacts the usability of the cars.

Particularly problematic are journeys just out of round trip range from home.

So your 170 km trip in winter in an Ioniq* that is 160 km safe range.

Easy availability of RELIABLE charging makes a massive difference in that scenario. Gives the driver confidence to make the trip. Reduces the need to keep an ICE car "for long trips".

There are three angles to charge point upset.....

1) the EV enthusiast who just wants EVs to be able to work well. They know that EVs can work if charging available as needed but Ireland is sub par.

2) the driver who gave EVs a go but ran into issues getting the car charged on a trip - and now have lost faith in the EV.

3) people taking the urine in how they use chargers by leaving cars on a rapid for too long etc.

Chargers CAN be done better then we do them in Ireland - so yes it's an area of frustration.

*Example to illustrate

It's mind numbling the level of discussion. Even if someone is able to charge without any issue they seem to want to tell the World....I seen post today explaining how someone complained to some poor man because he wasn't sure how to use a charge point...the rest of the posters pushing her on to give out more......seriously these are grown adults




Charging can be easily fixed, 10 euro fine if person stays over 40 mins at fast charger.....done

Black_Knight

Silent Running wrote: »

Hypothetically... you arrive at a destination charger with 2 sockets. A car is plugged in to the only socket that's working (because the second socket hasn't worked in 2 years:rolleyes:). The car is fully charged according to the indicator lights.

Do you...

Unplug the other car, leave the cable coiled up tidily and connect your car for a charge.

Drive on with the hope that you'll find a working, available charger.

Sit and wait for a while to see if the driver returns.

If you were the car plugged in and you came back to your car unplugged, would you...

Accept that you've had a full charge and be happy that the other driver unplugged you.

Have a tantrum and get all huffy, ruining the rest of your day.

Key the car of the bastard that dared to touch your cable.



I would unplug a charged car and leave the cable tidy, and if I returned to my car to find it unplugged, I would be happy enough if it was fully charged.

If I could unplug a fully charged/non charging car, I would.

If I came back to my car unplugged, I'd be ashamed of myself for letting that happen.

Silent Running

Black_Knight wrote: »

If I could unplug a fully charged/non charging car, I would.

If I came back to my car unplugged, I'd be ashamed of myself for letting that happen.

It has been stated earlier that it's not possible to unplug a car from a slow charger. In my experience, it is. Some people just unplug without using the card to end the session. I don't know how many times I've arrived at a charge point and have to ring Ecars to reset the charger because some dope has just unplugged and driven away.

redcup342

DrPhilG wrote: »

Silent Running wrote: »

Hypothetically... you arrive at a destination charger with 2 sockets.
Do you...

Unplug the other car

1 - I hate the term destination charger. People seem to accept that you should be able to use it for as long as you want, even if that's 12+ hours. Blocking it for a day shouldn't be acceptable.

2 - at a "destination charger" the cable stays locked even after the charge ends, to prevent cable theft.

In Holland the parking rules are that you can only park on a charging space when you are drawing current, you have 30 minutes grace period to move before you get a fine. \
Many of the "destination chargers" staying locked are dependent on your car. 
If your car unlocks then the charger will unlock too in many cases.

cafard

In NUIG, you see the same hybrids plugged in, every single day, all day. Some of those charging spots are basically used as private parking spaces.

It's kind of ok as there aren't too many EVs just yet on campus, but that isn't going to scale well as the numbers ramp up...