Indoor V outdoor cat

GingerLily

Following on from a side discussion from another thread, what are everyone's thoughts on outdoor cats?

I've read the life expectancy statistics, and while they look convincing, I don't know I trust them to reflect the dangers of going outside V living outside.

We have two 8 month old kitties, and we've recently started letting them out for an hour or two in the evening, best thing we ever did! We can leave windows open and open doors freely now without worrying they'll escape! I'm also not worried they'll be lost if they escape because they know our garden/house now.

They're in every night before it gets dark, there's a Tom who likes to patrol at night which I don't like the look of.

They love chasing each other in the garden and hiding in the grass and it's definitely made them fitter too. They're still human shy so I don't think they'll be annoying neighbours just yet. They don't beg for food with us anyway so hopefully they won't pester neighbours!

Both kitties are neutered BTW!

Anyway, I thought it was an interesting discussion anyway, I'm interested in learning more about people's experiences in Ireland with the indoor V outdoor cat debate.

Graces7

GingerLily wrote: »

Following on from a side discussion from another thread, what are everyone's thoughts on outdoor cats?

I've read the life expectancy statistics, and while they look convincing, I don't know I trust them to reflect the dangers of going outside V living outside.

We have two 8 month old kitties, and we've recently started letting them out for an hour or two in the evening, best thing we ever did! We can leave windows open and open doors freely now without worrying they'll escape! I'm also not worried they'll be lost if they escape because they know our garden/house now.

They're in every night before it gets dark, there's a Tom who likes to patrol at night which I don't like the look of.

They love chasing each other in the garden and hiding in the grass and it's definitely made them fitter too. They're still human shy so I don't think they'll be annoying neighbours just yet. They don't beg for food with us anyway so hopefully they won't pester neighbours!

Both kitties are neutered BTW!

Anyway, I thought it was an interesting discussion anyway, I'm interested in learning more about people's experiences in Ireland with the indoor V outdoor cat debate.

This is a perennial. often mooted for reasons other than cats..

my experience; when I lived in towns etc and then was breeding Siamese, my cats were indoors all the time.

When I moved to the North isles, with 12 cats, and was tailing off breeding, I started letting them out as it was safe. Also I kept chickens and that meant i was losing eggs and baby chicks to rats.

they loved it and I loved watching them run and play and climbing ,,

When i came to Ireland 20 years ago with three cats, they were never confined. Never since have I kept cats in.

As you are finding they are healthier, fitter and happier. Some cats adjust well to indoor life.. Jacob, one of my rescues, had never been outside when I got him, a few years ago now. He was intrigued but scared by open doors, but then discovered gradually the sheer joy of the world out there and I would never take that away from any cat.
I lived deep rural all these years in Ireland; now on a small island with only 2 other cats resident here

There are no dangers here.

They are healthy and happy and my oldest is 15 and as active as ever. He has never been confined and can open almost any windows. all my cats live to a good age.

The three new ones are young ex street cats. it would be utterly cruel and inappropriate to confine them and watching them chase each other across fields is a sheer joy.

what you are doing is perfect; very different from folk who just throw a cat out and maybe put food out. One of the 2 local cats is treated like that; never any caring. He has never been a pet whereas ours are. Just to keep vermin down which mine all do efficiently anyway

and I think that it is the latter that is the real problem.
Cats who have no home excpet the outdoors

We used to describe what you and I do as "indoor/outdoor cats".ie they can come and go as they please and are not shut out. At present. I have the three young ones flat out asleep on my bed here and the 2 older ones are sleeping under a bush outside. ( they think i do not know that..)

And my cats are workers; there was a sizable rat problem including one huge one, and they have sorted that and their presence ensures a rat free place

baby and crumble

I'd love to let ours out, but both have some level of disability that would make it too dangerous, especially around our area. Lots of scrotes on scramblers in particular. It'd be far too dangerous. I'm looking into a way to secure even our back yard so they could go out and relax and get some air etc.

Graces7

baby and crumble wrote: »

I'd love to let ours out, but both have some level of disability that would make it too dangerous, especially around our area. Lots of scrotes on scramblers in particular. It'd be far too dangerous. I'm looking into a way to secure even our back yard so they could go out and relax and get some air etc.

Some of my cats in towns learned to walk on leads... hope you get that sorted.

Mollyb60

As an alternative to nervous parents (ie me) allowing their cats free roam outside what's the general opinion on catio's? We're getting something like this built for our cat who enjoys lying in the sun. It's an expense but I'm hoping it'll satisfy both my need to keep my cat safe and her need to be outside.

uck51js9zml2yt

Our kitten is starting to venture outside.
It's a safer place than inside where the dog seems to think it's for chewing on though the cat tries it's best to reciprocate.

pawrick

I have separate indoor and semi outdoor cats (neighbours cats originally)

Our semi outdoor cats require more vet visits on account of other cats straying in to the area fighting with them, one also suffered a suspected rat bite. All our cats are neutered or spayed and kept in a high risk times to avoid other cats.
Our indoor only cats tend to need their weight monitored more, they simply aren't burning off as many calories as an outdoor cat which goes around stalking, climbing trees etc would.

I'm lucky that I live in an area where traffic is not an issue however on my way to work I regularly see cats dead on the road outside a particular house which has a colony of outdoor only cats. Simply put an indoor cat will not be hit by a car once it remains indoors.

Best of both worlds imo would be to have a large enclosed outdoor space, it could be a cat run or an enclosed cat proof garden, this is far better overall imo compared to fully indoor or fully outdoor.

personally I am against free roam cats mostly due to their impact on wildlife but you can mitigate against this to a limited degree.

SillyMangoX

Getting a catio was hands down the best money I have ever spent.
Peach and Cream, who were born outside on a farm, spent their first year indoors only when they came to me, with outside walks on the lead. After that, they started going out by day and always came in at night. Moose, who I got from a breeder, had it stated in the contract that he had to remain an indoor cat.
Two and a half years ago I opened a grooming business at home which meant lots of dogs coming in and out every day. I was so stressed making sure peach and cream weren’t around the areas where cars were driving or dogs would be walking, plus the added stress of people bringing their dogs without leads and giving chase to the cats. And Moose was becoming more active and needed room to run. So I bit the bullet and bought a catio from omlet.co.uk, installed the cats and have never looked back!
They love it up there, I put them up before work in the morning, and it’s beside where I work so I can keep an eye on them during the day, then bring them back to the house when I finish up in the evenings. It’s brilliant knowing they’re somewhere safe, they can’t be attacked by stray animals, they won’t come into contact with cars or poison, and it has the added benefit of a lot more small song birds coming back into our garden. They love being out there, basking in the sun, watching the birds. And if there’s ever an emergency or we have people over that we can’t trust to keep doors closed, there’s someplace safe and secure for them.
I don’t know why I waited so long to get one, but I’ll never be without a catio again!

looksee

I think it mostly depends on where you live. If you live by a main road or in an urban area with a lot of traffic then there is some sense to keeping cats indoors, especially if that is what they have been reared to.

On the other hand if you live in a rural area or even a town area where there is plenty of space to roam in a 'wild' environment, then let them out. Ours come and go as they please, some nights, especially in summer, they stay out all night - they will come in and have a bit to eat then ask to go out again. Or they sleep in the house, whichever they choose. Previous cats lived to 13 (died of an illness), 21, and the current cats are all getting a bit elderly at this stage.

Foweva Awone

I'm in a first floor apartment with a large balcony, my cat is mostly indoors but I've started sometimes letting her out to lie in the sun on my balcony. She enjoys it, my only fear is that she'd jump off some day and I'm not sure I'd be able to coax her back in. Hasn't happened so far though!

I don't think my nerves would cope with a cat wandering freely outside, too much potential for diseases, fights, cruel humans etc.

Graces7

Foweva Awone wrote: »

I'm in a first floor apartment with a large balcony, my cat is mostly indoors but I've started sometimes letting her out to lie in the sun on my balcony. She enjoys it, my only fear is that she'd jump off some day and I'm not sure I'd be able to coax her back in. Hasn't happened so far though!

I don't think my nerves would cope with a cat wandering freely outside, too much potential for diseases, fights, cruel humans etc.

I once had a Siamese who simply walked out through a 4th floor window as they have odd "flat" vision at night? .

i scooted down the stairs to find him sitting on the grass looking bemused. No harm done except to my nerves.

If i tried to keep this lot in! My oldest can open most windows..

kylith

Speaking as someone who doesn't have cats, I think it's very unfair on your neighbours to get a pet that your entire neighbourhood has to deal with. They may not want your cat in their garden fouling their flower beds and potentially upsetting their pets.

I have been in the situation previously of having to sit in the semi-dark with my curtains closed because a big ginger cat would sit on the back wall and drive my dogs mental. Currently I have to have chairs across my back door, which is glass, because when a cat passes my dog throws himself at it and 25kg of dog hitting a glass door at speed is seriously frightening.

I don't dislike cats. I enjoy playing with friends' cats when I visit, I just don't want cats myself. I have one friend whose cats had to go from roaming to indoors because they got fHIV, and another who lost two cats within weeks of each other when they were hit by cars, and I just don't understand how people can put their pets in such danger.

Graces7

kylith wrote: »

Speaking as someone who doesn't have cats, I think it's very unfair on your neighbours to get a pet that your entire neighbourhood has to deal with. They may not want your cat in their garden fouling their flower beds and potentially upsetting their pets.

I have been in the situation previously of having to sit in the semi-dark with my curtains closed because a big ginger cat would sit on the back wall and drive my dogs mental. Currently I have to have chairs across my back door, which is glass, because when a cat passes my dog throws himself at it and 25kg of dog hitting a glass door at speed is seriously frightening.

I don't dislike cats. I enjoy playing with friends' cats when I visit, I just don't want cats myself. I have one friend whose cats had to go from roaming to indoors because they got fHIV, and another who lost two cats within weeks of each other when they were hit by cars, and I just don't understand how people can put their pets in such danger.

If you, please, read the posts you will see that all of us are very careful where we let our cats out for the reasons you say.

So where is this coming from? I understand you have had bad experiences but that should make the posts here reassuring reading.

I certainly did say that; when we were in towns there was no way I would let the cats out. NO WAY. .

Where I live, I have no close neighbours and the only garden is mine, which by the way they respect as I provide for their toilet needs needs elsewhere. NB my nearest neighbour and others, at least half a mile away, are very glad of my cats to keep the rats away.

There are no dogs around, this being farming land, and only 2 other cats on the whole island. One comes to me anyways. And there is peace between him and mine.

And like many deep rural areas, there are rats that need keeping down

Yes we love our cats and are careful and responsible owners. Please read the posts and be reassured of that!

And to see them running and playing out in the good air and grass... they bother no one

kylith

How is it supposed to make someone feel better? _You_ May not let your cat’s roam in cities, but do you think all cat owners are like that? How can one be careful about letting them out when you can have literally no idea where they go or what they do? Roaming cats certainly do bother people, as you well know from the gardening forum. If every cat owner lived miles from anyone else with no dogs around it’d be grand, but they don’t. IMO the only way to responsibly have cats in an urban or suburban setting is with a catio.

loveisdivine

To be honest Graces, I think your situation is entirely unique. I'd say 99.9% of other cat owners in Ireland don't have the ideal situation that you do. I would certainly let ours out if we had the same set up as you. We live somewhat rural but I still wouldn't let them out, I see so many stray cats dead on the road that I could just never risk it. We have a catio instead and everyone is happy.

Incidentally, 2 of ours have FIV so they wouldn't be out anyway, but even if they didn't the situation would be the same for us.

Graces7

loveisdivine wrote: »

To be honest Graces, I think your situation is entirely unique. I'd say 99.9% of other cat owners in Ireland don't have the ideal situation that you do. I would certainly let ours out if we had the same set up as you. We live somewhat rural but I still wouldn't let them out, I see so many stray cats dead on the road that I could just never risk it. We have a catio instead and everyone is happy.

Incidentally, 2 of ours have FIV so they wouldn't be out anyway, but even if they didn't the situation would be the same for us.

I know and I understand, As I have said for 25 of my 50 cat keeping years mine were inside. It was not safe else and pedigree Siamese need to be safe

I think though that your estimate of 99,9 % is way too high and my situation is far from unique. much of Ireland IS deeply rural ; before the island I lived in several deep rural rentals and my cats were safe, non-nuisance and happy. No big roads, or even small roads. The one before this was two miles up the side of a Connemara mountain on a dirt track. and before that up a Kerry mountain, No close neighbours ever. I would never live anywhere my cats could not run free,

Towns etc are of course different, as I have said.

and I said clearly in my post that my five are free to roam because they are safe here. and no trouble to anyone.

No way am I going to criticise or judge cat owners i do not know ; all I can answer for is my own experience and decisions, My cats have never troubled anyone and nor have anyone else's cats every troubled me. all spayed and neutered.

Outdoor running cats are far healthier and happier then indoor cats, in my long experience, The three rescues I took in last winter have made huge strides. a joy to see them racing after me. We love our cats and do the very best we can for them, responsibly and carefully and the posts ere by other devoted owners reflect this.

as you are doing for yours in a very different situation. we both care deeply and responsibly as do all cat folk on the forum here. The variety is wonderful, as are all the cats!

tedpan

Mollyb60 wrote:

As an alternative to nervous parents (ie me) allowing their cats free roam outside what's the general opinion on catio's? We're getting something like this built for our cat who enjoys lying in the sun. It's an expense but I'm hoping it'll satisfy both my need to keep my cat safe and her need to be outside.

Who's building that for you? I have 3 indoor cats and that looks interesting!

boomerang

I have two catios, one north facing and one south facing so they always get good sunlight. 😄 The catios transformed my cats’ lives. Best money I ever spent. I was lucky in that a friend made them for me so the only cost was the materials, probably €1k for wood, wire and Perspex. The catios are 12ft by 4ft and they access them through an open window. During the summer they are out there all day.

Mollyb60

tedpan wrote: »

Who's building that for you? I have 3 indoor cats and that looks interesting!

I'm in Belfast so it's a company called Quinns Timber Craft. Just to stress it hasn't been built yet, that was just an example photo I got off the internet. It's supposed to be fitted next week so we're all very excited in the house atm. It's costing about £800 all in with the catflap.

tedpan

Mollyb60 wrote:

I'm in Belfast so it's a company called Quinns Timber Craft. Just to stress it hasn't been built yet, that was just an example photo I got off the internet. It's supposed to be fitted next week so we're all very excited in the house atm. It's costing about £800 all in with the catflap.

Nice one! I went a bit mad yesterday, bought timber and started building outside the kitchen window. Will update with pictures. It won't be huge but will at least allow the cats to get some time in the fresh air!

Would love to see some pics of yours once completed.

Realtine

We have five cats, three wander outside and two don't - Our eldest cat is 15 years old and she always went out, we live in the city, over time we acquired a feral kitten, we didn't let her out after a year our older cat pushed open a window and the younger cat followed her and we never saw her again, I was heartbroken. she went into feral mode and was lost forever.
WE have since acquired 4 other cats, waifs and strays who have made their home with us. One is from a feral family whom we adapted 5 years ago and he decided to live with us, his family are around and we take care of them, neutered and wormed but he is the most loving cat ever, he stays out the back and never goes out front.
Alfie was a lost cat also and he's very timid and the odd occasion he's gotten out he's not gone far but he's so afraid of everything so we keep him in.
Toby was another kitten who wandered into our house, feral also, now toby has escaped three times and they have been the most stressful times of our lives trying to find him and entice him back in, he goes into full feral mode and hides under the shed or deck and then disappears for a week or so, not a good time, so far we have always manage to get him back, which involves staying up very late at night a putting our food or a trap - then Milo another cat just turned up last year, he does his own thing, wouldn't see him for hours and hours then he comes in at night and for food.

Long post but if i could I think all cats should go be trained to go out, at least then hey will know how to behave outside and not go into flight mode as soon as the door is open.
The amount of times I have to shout, shut that door, or window or where's toby or Alfie so many times a day, then go searching for said cat to see where they are. I'd love to open my doors and windows in hot weather, but I can't.
It's stressful - train them to go out, use a lead, it's fairly common - too late for my lads but at least if your cats get out they should know how to come home again. (make sure they are neutered obviously).

PS liking the cat enclosures! will look into them.....

Graces7

Realtine wrote: »

We have five cats, three wander outside and two don't - Our eldest cat is 15 years old and she always went out, we live in the city, over time we acquired a feral kitten, we didn't let her out after a year our older cat pushed open a window and the younger cat followed her and we never saw her again, I was heartbroken. she went into feral mode and was lost forever.
WE have since acquired 4 other cats, waifs and strays who have made their home with us. One is from a feral family whom we adapted 5 years ago and he decided to live with us, his family are around and we take care of them, neutered and wormed but he is the most loving cat ever, he stays out the back and never goes out front.
Alfie was a lost cat also and he's very timid and the odd occasion he's gotten out he's not gone far but he's so afraid of everything so we keep him in.
Toby was another kitten who wandered into our house, feral also, now toby has escaped three times and they have been the most stressful times of our lives trying to find him and entice him back in, he goes into full feral mode and hides under the shed or deck and then disappears for a week or so, not a good time, so far we have always manage to get him back, which involves staying up very late at night a putting our food or a trap - then Milo another cat just turned up last year, he does his own thing, wouldn't see him for hours and hours then he comes in at night and for food.

Long post but if i could I think all cats should go be trained to go out, at least then hey will know how to behave outside and not go into flight mode as soon as the door is open.
The amount of times I have to shout, shut that door, or window or where's toby or Alfie so many times a day, then go searching for said cat to see where they are. I'd love to open my doors and windows in hot weather, but I can't.
It's stressful - train them to go out, use a lead, it's fairly common - too late for my lads but at least if your cats get out they should know how to come home again. (make sure they are neutered obviously).

PS liking the cat enclosures! will look into them.....

Ferals are a breed apart and if left to it many will come and go as they please and need. I had one attached for a while that came in once a week or so

Honestly there is no need to worry. The e'xperts say rightly that by the second generatiion they are wired to feed and breed and no matter how tame they seem to be that is still in them ..

I cared for 2; one i never let out as I needed to get her spayed before I moved house.. when that was done and I tried to pen her, there was no way so I left her to a great cat rescue..

The second I fed etc always outdoors; There was no need to force him in. he was lap tame.. Rarely away from the door but not seeking in and that was fine. i caught him to move house but then was too..... ignorant about ferals to know how territorial they adre and that they need keeping in a long while when you move them, when I let him out at the new place he vanished,

I would never ever confine a feral. It will make them more wary. Love them as they are and feed them where they want to be?

metaoblivia

I have two cats and they're indoor cats. I live on a residential street and have a small front and back garden, but otherwise the houses are pretty close to each other. And of course there's a street right out front.

One of my cats loves going outside and he's learned to walk on a leash. I'm not keen on letting him out by himself because:

1. The street is right there with neighbors coming in and out
2. Many other animals roam, including feral cats, possums and raccoons. I don't know what diseases they carry, and my cat is very... bold. He'll start shite if given the opportunity.
3. There are big dogs in the yards on either side of us. They're friendly, but they're huge. My cat did sneak out one morning and antagonized the pit bull next door so much that the dog busted through the 6 foot fence and got into my garden (I say antagonize - my cat thought he was antagonizing the dog; the dog thought my cat really wanted to play and was SUPER EXCITED about it so he came through the fence).

In a lot of ways, I'm just protecting the neighborhood from my bold cat (who's otherwise a perfect gentleman around humans of all sizes. He's never scratched, bitten or hissed at any human. He has tackled several stray cats and has prepared himself to throw down with small dogs - I intervened before any of those incidents escalated). My other cat is much more deliberate. We do go outside together, but she doesn't need a leash as she won't go past the front yard and she doesn't like to lose sight of me.

Graces7

metaoblivia wrote: »

I have two cats and they're indoor cats. I live on a residential street and have a small front and back garden, but otherwise the houses are pretty close to each other. And of course there's a street right out front.

One of my cats loves going outside and he's learned to walk on a leash. I'm not keen on letting him out by himself because:

1. The street is right there with neighbors coming in and out
2. Many other animals roam, including feral cats, possums and raccoons. I don't know what diseases they carry, and my cat is very... bold. He'll start shite if given the opportunity.
3. There are big dogs in the yards on either side of us. They're friendly, but they're huge. My cat did sneak out one morning and antagonized the pit bull next door so much that the dog busted through the 6 foot fence and got into my garden (I say antagonize - my cat thought he was antagonizing the dog; the dog thought my cat really wanted to play and was SUPER EXCITED about it so he came through the fence).

In a lot of ways, I'm just protecting the neighborhood from my bold cat (who's otherwise a perfect gentleman around humans of all sizes. He's never scratched, bitten or hissed at any human. He has tackled several stray cats and has prepared himself to throw down with small dogs - I intervened before any of those incidents escalated). My other cat is much more deliberate. We do go outside together, but she doesn't need a leash as she won't go past the front yard and she doesn't like to lose sight of me.

tedpan

So after a 4 afternoon's work, it's done. I'm wrecked but the cats are really happy!

Mollyb60

Ted that looks amazing!!!! Well done! We're getting ours installed either tomorrow or Monday.

tedpan

Mollyb60 wrote:

Ted that looks amazing!!!! Well done! We're getting ours installed either tomorrow or Monday.

Cheers, the build was fun and stressful at the same time, but totally worth it! Can't wait to see how yours turns out!

Mollyb60

How much DIY skill did you need to put that together? Both myself and my husband are useless at DIY so completely talked ourselves out of trying to make it and got someone in to do it instead. Yours looks straightforward enough.

tedpan

Mollyb60 wrote:

How much DIY skill did you need to put that together? Both myself and my husband are useless at DIY so completely talked ourselves out of trying to make it and got someone in to do it instead. Yours looks straightforward enough.

Yeah, I've done a few bits of diy in the past, watched a lot of videos online too. It took some thought and planning, but I'm sure you'd be able to do something similar.

Here's what we used, I'd say around 350e in total

Wood - 160e
Wire mesh 10m - 45e
Clear plastic roofing - 45e(used my Dremel to cut this)
Staple gun - 20e
Wood paint 2.5l - 25e
Saw - 10e
Wood screws - 35e
Measuring tape
Level
Drill
Carpet and scrap wood - attic
Time and patience - priceless

tedpan

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WZJMESDwva8

Warning - Only wacth if you like cats..

Mostly video of them exploring and playing! It's plenty of outdoor space for the four of them.

DBB

Fantastic tedpan, seriously impressive bit of DIY there
Your cats are absolutely beautiful too

tedpan

DBB wrote:

Fantastic tedpan, seriously impressive bit of DIY there Your cats are absolutely beautiful too

Thanks very much, very proud of it! The cats are great big balls of fluff

sdp

A credit to you Tedpan! and great video of your lovely cats:)

Stratvs

Tedpan fantastic job. Looks like they will get great use out of that. Methinks the weekend will now be spent trying to figure out how to do something like that for our indoors ones !

( ok I just YouTube'd Catio....this could be a long weekend ! )

Mollyb60

Amazing job ted, the kittys obviously love it too. I really like the clear plastic roof, it's a great idea. Lets the sun in for them but keeps them dry too. Have you thought of how you're gonna clean the outside of your window now? Is there a hatch that you can open to get in at them?

tedpan

Stratvs wrote:

Tedpan fantastic job. Looks like they will get great use out of that. Methinks the weekend will now be spent trying to figure out how to do something like that for our indoors ones !

Stratvs wrote:

( ok I just YouTube'd Catio....this could be a long weekend ! )

Yes, planning and figuring out what to do took most of the time, once you find your rhythm you'll be flying!

sdp wrote:

A credit to you Tedpan! and great video of your lovely cats

Cheers!

Mollyb60 wrote:

Amazing job ted, the kittys obviously love it too. I really like the clear plastic roof, it's a great idea. Lets the sun in for them but keeps them dry too. Have you thought of how you're gonna clean the outside of your window now? Is there a hatch that you can open to get in at them?

Thanks! Yes the front panel on the front middle is removable so plenty of room for cleaning and hoovering! Didn't install a hatch though, they're pretty fond of their food so they come running in through the window when called. I don't think they're normal cats


FYI
When I built the back frame(next to the wall) I measured around the frame of the window and sill.

I built the left, top and bottom, then stood it up over the window frame, made sure it was level and in line with the existing window, then drilled and screwed the right side of the frame and used the cement window sill to secure the wooden frame, it is extremely sturdy and basically now attached to the cement window sill.(no drilling to the wall)

Once the back frame was secured, i built an identical frame for the front and then went from there.

Don't forget to measure twice and always use a level

I am about 100kgs, it can easily hold my weight and does not move at all.

I hope that makes sense!

That's amazing Tedpan! Well done. I can't believe how quick and eager your cats were to go out and explore! They're loving it!!

My two are indoor cats and they have no interest in that big bad world. I'm sitting here now with the window behind me wide open and neither of them even look at it.

I still hope to build an enclosure for them and just slowly let them get used to it. But I am tempted by that now though. You made it seem so easy!

tedpan

Deleted User wrote: »

That's amazing Tedpan! Well done. I can't believe how quick and eager your cats were to go out and explore! They're loving it!!

My two are indoor cats and they have no interest in that big bad world. I'm sitting here now with the window behind me wide open and neither of them even look at it.

I still hope to build an enclosure for them and just slowly let them get used to it. But I am tempted by that now though. You made it seem so easy!

Haha, thanks! Yes, they watch the dogs go outside and are always sad when they are left inside, they always wanted to explore, could be down to their age!(Boots and Moon are 1 year old, Cosmo is almost 2 and Biggie's 6)


You'll need some patience, but I'd say you'd be grand. Start building this evening!!! lol!

tedpan

tedpan wrote: »

Haha, thanks! Yes, they watch the dogs go outside and are always sad when they are left inside, they always wanted to explore, could be down to their age!(Boots and Moon are 1 year old, Cosmo is almost 2 and Biggie's 6)


You'll need some patience, but I'd say you'd be grand. Start building this evening!!! lol!

Ah well when I said I'm tempted what I really meant was I'm tempted to coerce my partner into doing it! I'll start putting the pressure on this evening for sure!

Mine watch the dogs go out and are waiting at the door to greet them when they come back in but don't try to go out with them.

Ms2011

We have one cat who spends most of her time inside in the winter & outside in the summer.
She spent the first 15.5 years in a housing estate & the last 2 years rurally. Only in the last year has she started to slow down otherwise she has been the healthiest, low maintenance pets I've had.
I don't think I would keep a cat indoors, even a nice fish bowl is a fish bowl no less.
Would I rather spend 50 years free or 100 years in a safe, secure jail? I'd choose 50 years of freedom everytime.

tedpan

Ms2011 wrote: »

We have one cat who spends most of her time inside in the winter & outside in the summer.
She spent the first 15.5 years in a housing estate & the last 2 years rurally. Only in the last year has she started to slow down otherwise she has been the healthiest, low maintenance pets I've had.
I don't think I would keep a cat indoors, even a nice fish bowl is a fish bowl no less.
Would I rather spend 50 years free or 100 years in a safe, secure jail? I'd choose 50 years of freedom everytime.

My wife has had cats all her life. She used to let them roam in the town she grew up in and the amount of cats killed on the road is not worth talking about. I wouldn't want to take the risk, especially with my scaredy cats, they're definitely happy indoors!

Graces7

tedpan wrote: »

My wife has had cats all her life. She used to let them roam in the town she grew up in and the amount of cats killed on the road is not worth talking about. I wouldn't want to take the risk, especially with my scaredy cats, they're definitely happy indoors!

Here if six vehicles ( same one 4 times!) pass in a day it is a traffic jam ..

kylith

Graces7 wrote: »

Here if six vehicles ( same one 4 times!) pass in a day it is a traffic jam ..

Unfortunately most people live in urban areas where there are lots of cars and seeing animals killed on roads is not an uncommon sight, not on semi-deserted islands.

Sheepdish1

I had an indoor cat and I used to do the same with her letting her in and out under close supervision. It worked really well for a few months and then she was let out one morning and didn’t come back. Found her after four extremely upsetting and stressful weeks which involved me looking for her during any free time I had. She was very distressed and dropped nearly 2kg so I’m too nervous to let her out again as she’s way too skittish. Vet reckons she had another few days left max as she was so underweight.

She’s feral with everyone apart from me and who she lives with and scared of wind, rain, anything that moves really so cars and bin trucks etc would scare her a lot.

Im starting to find it very stressful as I have open plan and live in a relatively small space and any time anyone opens the doors she needs to be locked away. It is really starting to frustrate me and I can’t build a catio as I don’t own the land outside of my house. Really don’t know what to do. Have a tracking collar on her but don’t trust it fully. It’s a back up.

My other cat is also semi feral. She wants to go outside and doesn’t like being around people but she loves being outside. She has some road sense but it is a risk. The other cat described above will never be able to go out. I don’t know what to do and if anyone has any solutions I would really welcome them as I was going to start a thread on it. How do people manage the stress of them not getting out all the time

Graces7

kylith wrote: »

Unfortunately most people live in urban areas where there are lots of cars and seeing animals killed on roads is not an uncommon sight, not on semi-deserted islands.

I know, I know. I rejoice in their freedom here and mine. We pay in other ways for it here. Nothing comes free except our caring for our pets.

Graces7

Sheepdish1 wrote: »

I had an indoor cat and I used to do the same with her letting her in and out under close supervision. It worked really well for a few months and then she was let out one morning and didn’t come back. Found her after four extremely upsetting and stressful weeks which involved me looking for her during any free time I had. She was very distressed and dropped nearly 2kg so I’m too nervous to let her out again as she’s way too skittish. Vet reckons she had another few days left max as she was so underweight.

She’s feral with everyone apart from me and who she lives with and scared of wind, rain, anything that moves really so cars and bin trucks etc would scare her a lot.

Im starting to find it very stressful as I have open plan and live in a relatively small space and any time anyone opens the doors she needs to be locked away. It is really starting to frustrate me and I can’t build a catio as I don’t own the land outside of my house. Really don’t know what to do. Have a tracking collar on her but don’t trust it fully. It’s a back up.

My other cat is also semi feral. She wants to go outside and doesn’t like being around people but she loves being outside. She has some road sense but it is a risk. The other cat described above will never be able to go out. I don’t know what to do and if anyone has any solutions I would really welcome them as I was going to start a thread on it. How do people manage the stress of them not getting out all the time

I had a feral who I knew would vanish if she got out so I kept her in. I used the dog crate, and a room that was not by the main door. she loved the crate. covered it with a blanket and it was her safe place.

Even in wild Kerry there were risks. One of my perfectly tame cats vanished for weeks; I was pretty sure she had been taken in by holiday makers as some had written online that they did this then left the cat when they went home. She finally dragged herself home after I had emailed all the local holiday lets asking them to check .. she had clearly somehow been shut in when they closed for the winter. She was emaciated and distressed and after that was kept in totally.

Caring is a hard road. My other feral was streetwise and came for food and petting only.

Blondie919

Our cat is nearly one years old and we've been letting her out for the last 3 (ish) months. We used live in a small town and we had a nice back garden with plenty of neighboring trees and high grass. Perfect for stalking birds. She loved it! She stayed mostly out the back as I never saw her roaming out front much. She always came home, especially whenever I turned on some music. I would always keep her in at night once she came back.

But we had to move to the city suburbs in the last 2 or 3 weeks. It's an estate a bit in from a major junction. But there's lots of bushes and trees out front. We did our research and tried to keep her indoor for the recommended 3/4 weeks. But because she loves it outside, and was practically begging us to be let out, we relented. We couldn't keep her in! Didn't seem fair on her.

Now, I know there are risks out there. I dread the day she doesn't come back. But, there is no way we can't not let her out, is there? She's young, she is experiencing outdoors, she absolutely loves it. Who are we to put a stop to that? It's not even possible, unless I build a catio but I don't think that's going to happen anytime soon. So, we have to let her be free to move about and hope nothing bad happens to her. She's a smart little cat, is Neo.

Rubberchikken

ours are always outdoor due to a family member eith severe cat allergy.
our first cat was a kitten we were given. he lived to a year and was to our horror killed by a car even though we live in a quiet cul de sac.
after visiting family shortly after we discovered a little stoaway had come home with us presumably under the bonnet.

we had her for 13 years and she gave us four kittens which in time gave us two kittens and one if them is still with us and is 13 years old. she had kittens, 2 if which. at 12 are still with us.
thst little family of 3 live in our back garden which is big and they have their own garden shed (very cosy).
we also have a 13 yo stray. she showed up about 12 years ago and lives in our front garden.

all hail and hearty. a couole of doses of cat flu over the years but theyre in great shape and health. currently enjoying our summer and happy out

acequion

Sheepdish1 wrote: »

I had an indoor cat and I used to do the same with her letting her in and out under close supervision. It worked really well for a few months and then she was let out one morning and didn’t come back. Found her after four extremely upsetting and stressful weeks which involved me looking for her during any free time I had. She was very distressed and dropped nearly 2kg so I’m too nervous to let her out again as she’s way too skittish. Vet reckons she had another few days left max as she was so underweight.

She’s feral with everyone apart from me and who she lives with and scared of wind, rain, anything that moves really so cars and bin trucks etc would scare her a lot.

Im starting to find it very stressful as I have open plan and live in a relatively small space and any time anyone opens the doors she needs to be locked away. It is really starting to frustrate me and I can’t build a catio as I don’t own the land outside of my house. Really don’t know what to do. Have a tracking collar on her but don’t trust it fully. It’s a back up.

My other cat is also semi feral. She wants to go outside and doesn’t like being around people but she loves being outside. She has some road sense but it is a risk. The other cat described above will never be able to go out. I don’t know what to do and if anyone has any solutions I would really welcome them as I was going to start a thread on it. How do people manage the stress of them not getting out all the time

Hi Sheepdish1, I well remember your thread about that little kitty and the huge excitement that everyone felt when you eventually found her. So glad to hear that she's well,even if still a little furry handful Have you tried her on a lead? That can work great with some cats but with others not at all. Where it works it's the perfect solution as they get to go out in the fresh air in total security. Vets or large pet stores give good advice on this.

ibarelycare

I'm glad I came across this thread. I have two one-year-old tom cats, who were originally (by my choice) indoor cats that we would let outdoors supervised as much as we could. But it was clear that they (well one in particular) didn't want to be indoor cats. I feel like it's no up to us to make that decision for them. I'm such a worrier and I dread to think what could happen to them but they're much happier being able to roam. They've only been allowed out freely for the last couple of months, and always "check in" every few hours, we always make sure they're in before we go anywhere, and they're always in at night. One of them doesn't wander far, often only around the garden for a bit, then comes back in to sleep the day away. The other fella is much more of an adventurer, and both of them are getting braver as the days go by.

I've read so many conflicting opinions, but I do feel less guilty now knowing they're out enjoying themselves and having happier lives. They're eating better, sleeping right through the night in our bed, and much less vocal since we've been letting them out. We toyed with the idea of a catio but it just isn't an option for us right now. I worry every day about cars, dogs, etc, but I have to trust that they're wise and cautious and just hope that nothing will happen them

acequion

A very interesting thread which I've only just discovered as I've been away.

@tedpan, congrats on that fabulous state of the art catio you built!! There could be a new career in that line if you were so inclined

But re the OP's original question, I would be a big advocate for allowing cats out to explore the great big world out there. Cats are naturally curious little explorers and I'd prefer a cat with a shorter life span but living life to the full.

But I also get that owners have very genuine fears for the safety of their beloved pets.

In my own case, I've had two dearly loved kitties over the past 30 years. 30 years ago I was very young and living alone in Brussels when I happened to take in a little abandoned kitty. She was an outdoor cat and adored prowling the city roof tops so I'd leave the windows open on warm summer nights in my top floor appartment. Never a bother until I moved some years later and wanted to continue allowing the night time prowls but something really frightened her, as literally overnight she became a house cat and adapted without the slightest problem. Fast forward more years and I returned to Ireland and no question that she wasn't coming with me. She alternated between my mother's home in Kerry and my rented accommodation in Dublin. In Kerry she would happily enjoy the garden on a longish lead which was firmly secured while in Dublin she was indoor.Never a bother, she was just very adaptable and she lived to a ripe old age.

Nowadays I live in a very quiet suburb of a large town and my present cat who is 7 has always been outdoor /indoor. Spooked by stories of the dangers outside I tried to train her to the lead like the previous cat, but not a hope.I also tried keeping her in but not a hope there either. She went mental and eventually escaped through an upstairs window. So I resigned myself to letting her come and go as she pleases so that she can enjoy her life and touch wood, no problems. She never wanders far and loves her indoor comforts too, always sleeping in a cosy bed and it's nice to see her running and rolling around in the grass and chasing all sorts of creatures great and small and snoozing outside on warm days. And she doesn't bother the neighbours,though she is a very friendly cat.

So it really is down to each individual case imo.