Zanussi gas cooker (plug fuse keeps blowing)

Kealyboy

Hi I have a Zanussi gas cooker model number ZCG551GNC. I was using the oven and hobs this evening when cooking. Then all of a sudden the cooker lost power. The cooker is just plugged into a wall socket so I plugged it out and then established that there was power at the socket. The plug is a molded type plug that is fused with a 3amp fuse. I took out the fuse and tested that with my multi meter and established that the fuse had blown. So I had a spare 3amp fuse that I then replaced in the plug but as soon as I plugged that into the wall socket that fuse blew aswell.

When i replaced the fuse all knobs where off. Usually the electronic programmer turns on first but in this instance this did not happen and the fuse just blew straight away in the plug.

Any thoughts on what could be blown the fuses. I have a multi meter so I can do electrical checks on the appliances.

Thank you

DublinDilbert

I'd be fairly sure what's wrong with your cooker, the EMC line filter has failed. Its a direct connection across live/nuetral causing a hard short when it fails.

With the device plugged out there's a mental panel on the back you can open up, on the main L/N connections there's two back wires for the line filter. If you disconnect these and test them with the meter you'll see a dead short.

Had one fail with the cooker just 13months old, zanussi wanted me to pay silly money for a technican + parts costs. Its obviously a fairly widespread problem. From talking to some people in the gas trade, these zanussi cookers are just a re-bradged other brand.

Kealyboy

DublinDilbert wrote: »

I'd be fairly sure what's wrong with your cooker, the EMC line filter has failed. Its a direct connection across live/nuetral causing a hard short when it fails.

With the device plugged out there's a mental panel on the back you can open up, on the main L/N connections there's two back wires for the line filter. If you disconnect these and test them with the meter you'll see a dead short.

Had one fail with the cooker just 13months old, zanussi wanted me to pay silly money for a technican + parts costs. Its obviously a fairly widespread problem. From talking to some people in the gas trade, these zanussi cookers are just a re-bradged other brand.

Brilliant I've tested resistance between the plug L and N pin and I am getting a reading of 15.70 KOhms. I presume this does suggest what you are saying and the mostly likely cause is the EMC line filter has failed? If I test this component and it does need replacing is this component expensive?

Furthermore just to clarify if I disconnect the EMC line filter do i just test for continuity across it and if the multimeter beeps that means it faulty?

Thanks

DublinDilbert

Kealyboy wrote: »

Brilliant I've tested resistance between the plug L and N pin and I am getting a reading of 15.70 KOhms. I presume this does suggest what you are saying and the mostly likely cause is the EMC line filter has failed? If I test this component and it does need replacing is this component expensive?

Furthermore just to clarify if I disconnect the EMC line filter do i just test for continuity across it and if the multimeter beeps that means it faulty?

Thanks

If the line filter has failed, I'd expect you to see a hard short between live and neutral. Check it again. At 15k I would not expect the fuse to blow.

I think that emc filter also has a cap to ground, see If it's failed (shorted) between the live and earth.

DublinDilbert

To answer your other question, if this has failed, you can disconnect all 3 wires and the appliance should function correctly. It's there to prevent emissions / give immunity to rf.

The correct thing to do is replace it like for like, although more than likely no issue would result from it not being fitted.

Kealyboy

DublinDilbert wrote: »

To answer your other question, if this has failed, you can disconnect all 3 wires and the appliance should function correctly. It's there to prevent emissions / give immunity to rf.

The correct thing to do is replace it like for like, although more than likely no issue would result from it not being fitted.

I am after putting replacing the fuse once again but by mistake I put a 13amp fuse in it and when I plugged it in there was a bang and a small flash from the back of it. Hope I didn't cause further damage and it just the faulty electrical component that banged. Service engineer cant call till Monday

DublinDilbert

That was the emc filter finally failing. Replace the fuse and measure the continuity at the plug the the appliance.

Hopefully the technician has the part with him, I’d guess he will as it seems like a common fault.

Bikerman2019

Dont mean to derail the thread, but dont bother with anything above. You can demand the shop looks after it as it is only 13 months old and under the supply of goods and services act, the shop has liability. Any warranty offered - ie one year, is only a promise. You can demand them to sort it under irish legislation.



If not, small claims court !

Kealyboy

Bikerman2019 wrote: »

Dont mean to derail the thread, but dont bother with anything above. You can demand the shop looks after it as it is only 13 months old and under the supply of goods and services act, the shop has liability. Any warranty offered - ie one year, is only a promise. You can demand them to sort it under irish legislation.



If not, small claims court !

Its 6 years old.

babi-hrse

Does the cooker work when you just remove the affected part as Dublindilbert said?

Kealyboy

A quick update the engineer came around and put a new cable in from the socket to the main terminal block on the cooker and that did the trick. I was very curious so I wanted to see what was wrong with the old cable, so I stripped that wire expecting to some sort of internal damage (short circuiting) but to my surprise saw none. Nor did I see him do any sort of fault find with a multimeter.

Initially he taught it would be the holder for the oven bulb/lamp burnt out as he said that they always give trouble but he took one look at that and said that was fine.

Anyway it works now so happy days and only costed 40 euro for the call out.

DublinDilbert

That's very strange, cause a flex wouldn't cause a short like that. A break in the flex would cause the appliance to stop working. I've fixed a few flexes on very old power tools where there's bending and stress, but never on an appliance where it would be static. Unless somehow heat got at the cable, but then you would see some damage.

Did you strip the cable completely?

Kealyboy

DublinDilbert wrote: »

That's very strange, cause a flex wouldn't cause a short like that. A break in the flex would cause the appliance to stop working. I've fixed a few flexes on very old power tools where there's bending and stress, but never on an appliance where it would be static. Unless somehow heat got at the cable, but then you would see some damage.

Did you strip the cable completely?

Yep I did, attached is a picture of the cable

DublinDilbert

That cable looks fine to me.

If I had to guess i would say your last try with the 13A fuse fitted took out the EMC line filter completely and effectively removed the short circuit from the cooker.

Kealyboy

DublinDilbert wrote: »

That cable looks fine to me.

If I had to guess i would say your last try with the 13A fuse fitted took out the EMC line filter completely and effectively removed the short circuit from the cooker.

Is it safe to be running without the EMC line filter working??? Or should I call the engineer back to investigate further?

Maybe this is just me being paranoid but I think when the oven is on there is a lot more heat coming up from the lefthand side of the cooker (vent area).m compared to the righthand side.

DublinDilbert

Kealyboy wrote: »

Is it safe to be running without the EMC line filter working??? Or should I call the engineer back to investigate further?

Maybe this is just me being paranoid but I think when the oven is on there is a lot more heat coming up from the lefthand side of the cooker (vent area).m compared to the righthand side.

Yea the EMC line filter won't effect the operation of the appliance. If you took it to an EMC test chamber you might be marginally over the tight EMC limits, but in the day to day operation you won't see any difference.

I doubt your technican would want to come back, sure he has already "fixed" the issue, he'll probably say some guy on the internet doesn't know what he is talking about.

Your paranoid about the temperature variation.

Kealyboy

DublinDilbert wrote: »

Yea the EMC line filter won't effect the operation of the appliance. If you took it to an EMC test chamber you might be marginally over the tight EMC limits, but in the day to day operation you won't see any difference.

I doubt your technican would want to come back, sure he has already "fixed" the issue, he'll probably say some guy on the internet doesn't know what he is talking about.

Your paranoid about the temperature variation.

I still don't quite understand what the purpose of the EMC filter? And secondly I'm just afraid that something will overheat and the cooker will go on fire. I feel that this could be a safety issue.

Sorry I know very little about cookers.

Kealyboy

Is this the EMC filter? Will I just replace this part?

Kealyboy

Quick update ordered the part. Was told its a suppressor that regulates the temp. €21.95 for the new part. I presume thats the part you were on about. So it safe to use with that part disconnected while waiting for the new part come in??

Kealyboy

The engineer wired my cooker to the spur on the wall (which does not have a 3amp fuse fitted , see picture) as opposed to the plug which had one fitted. When I connect the new suppressor, I hope this won’t blow again when switched on.

Thanks for all your help!

brightspark

Kealyboy wrote: »

The engineer wired my cooker to the spur on the wall (which does not have a 3amp fuse fitted , see picture) as opposed to the plug which had one fitted. When I connect the new suppressor, I hope this won’t blow again when switched on.

Thanks for all your help!

Is that a cooker switch, as in supposed to be used to supply an electric cooker, (protected by a 32A MCB)?

Kealyboy

brightspark wrote: »

Is that a cooker switch, as in supposed to be used to supply an electric cooker, (protected by a 32A MCB)?

Yes I presume so, one of these tripped on the fuse board (see picture) when that part blew.

Should I wire a plug to it again which is protected with a 3 amp fuse and plug it into the socket on the wall, as before?

brightspark

I'm going to take a guess that one of the mcbs on the top left has B32 printed on it?

If you turn it off does it turn off the cooker?

(I suspect that the previous one that tripped when you were using the plug/socket was one of the ones on the bottom with B20 on it?)

brightspark

Kealyboy wrote: »

Should I wire a plug to it again which is protected with a 3 amp fuse and plug it into the socket on the wall, as before?

If the manufacturer felt that the cable etc needed to be protected with a 3A fuse, having it on a 32A MCB would not be advisable.


Fuses/MCBs etc are meant to trip under certain fault conditions. Fitting larger fuses etc may lead to a fire etc.

Kealyboy

brightspark wrote: »

I'm going to take a guess that one of the mcbs on the top left has B32 printed on it?

If you turn it off does it turn off the cooker?

(I suspect that the previous one that tripped when you were using the plug/socket was one of the ones on the bottom with B20 on it?)

Yep your spot on!

DublinDilbert

Kealyboy wrote: »

Quick update ordered the part. Was told its a suppressor that regulates the temp. €21.95 for the new part. I presume thats the part you were on about. So it safe to use with that part disconnected while waiting for the new part come in??

No it doesn't regulate temperature! Its an electro magnetic compatability (EMC) filter which will help reduce interference (if there is any) and/or improve immunity from outside interference.

It looks like you were correct about the cable not being the problem. When you put the 13A fuse in the second time it blasted the EMC filter to pieces.

Let me put it this way, its safer to take out the cooked part yes. The way the part has seperated there could be some parts of it live. So disconnect all 3 wries and remove.

Kealyboy

DublinDilbert wrote: »

No it doesn't regulate temperature! Its an electro magnetic compatability (EMC) filter which will help reduce interference (if there is any) and/or improve immunity from outside interference.

It looks like you were correct about the cable not being the problem. When you put the 13A fuse in the second time it blasted the EMC filter to pieces.

Let me put it this way, its safer to take out the cooked part yes. The way the part has seperated there could be some parts of it live. So disconnect all 3 wries and remove.

Yes I have removed it. The cooker is working fine now. I have ordered the new part and paid for it already. I know you were saying that the cooker will work perfectly fine without it but I may as well fit it now seen as it’s ordered and paid for and at least ill know everything is as it should be.

Thanks for all your help

DublinDilbert

Kealyboy wrote: »

Yes I have removed it. The cooker is working fine now. I have ordered the new part and paid for it already. I know you were saying that the cooker will work perfectly fine without it but I may as well fit it now seen as it’s ordered and paid for and at least ill know everything is as it should be.

Thanks for all your help

Yes fitting it is the right thing to do.

The technican who called to the house effectively left an appliance in a dangerous condition by not finding the actual fault (very common fault at that). I didn't read the full thread, but is the power for this taken from the cooker switch? if so there probably isn't RCD protection on it, which would of detected a fault to earth in the appliance.

It goes to show you can have all the certs in the world, but you need to be thorough and get to the bottom of problems. He should of just put a new fuse into the plug and charged you €40, as that is effecitvely what he did.

Kealyboy

Yes Its wired to the cooker switch now as well. It was original just plugged in which had 3 amp fuse fitted. Now its not effectively protected anymore, apart from the MCB which I think is 32 amps, correct me if i am wrong.

I am just wondering I presume I can buy a new cooker switch with a fuse connection in it? And just put a 3 amp fuse in it?

DublinDilbert

Kealyboy wrote: »

Yes Its wired to the cooker switch now as well. It was original just plugged in which had 3 amp fuse fitted. Now its not effectively protected anymore, apart from the MCB which I think is 32 amps, correct me if i am wrong.

I am just wondering I presume I can buy a new cooker switch with a fuse connection in it? And just put a 3 amp fuse in it?

Did the service technican (who didn't find the fault), replaced a cable that wasn't faulty, wired your cooker directly into a 32A outlet? and then charged you? Have i got that correct? I would be looking for my money back from the service guy, that's shocking.

Yes in theory you could replace the cooker switch with a fused spur up on the wall, but you won't get one in that double size format. Is there a 6sq cable coming from the cooker switch, which is then joined onto the cooker cable?

Power off breaker, un-wire from the cooker switch. Put a plug on it and plug it back in.

Kealyboy

DublinDilbert wrote: »

Did the service technican (who didn't find the fault), replaced a cable that wasn't faulty, wired your cooker directly into a 32A outlet? and then charged you? Have i got that correct? I would be looking for my money back from the service guy, that's shocking.

Yes in theory you could replace the cooker switch with a fused spur up on the wall, but you won't get one in that double size format. Is there a 6sq cable coming from the cooker switch, which is then joined onto the cooker cable?

Power off breaker, un-wire from the cooker switch. Put a plug on it and plug it back in.

Yep you got all that right, and he’s the main currys.ie technician here in Kilkenny and surrounding area. You'd think he’d know better, I think I actually know better than him.yes it is a 6sq cable all the way. I’ll just get a replacement cable and plug and wire it back properly myself.

DublinDilbert

Kealyboy wrote: »

Yep you got all that right, and he’s the main currys.ie technician here in Kilkenny and surrounding area. You'd think he’d know better, I think I actually know better than him.yes it is a 6sq cable all the way. I’ll just get a replacement cable and plug and wire it back properly myself.

That's discraceful. On the 6sq cable coming from the switch behind the cooker, you could put a single socket on this, mark it for cooker use only. Or fit a fused spur on the end of the cable.

Kealyboy

DublinDilbert wrote: »

That's discraceful. On the 6sq cable coming from the switch behind the cooker, you could put a single socket on this, mark it for cooker use only. Or fit a fused spur on the end of the cable.

I like the idea of the cooker being wire to the cooker switch rather than being plugged into a socket on the wall. So it would be acceptable to wire a fused spur to the end of the cooker 6sq cable and then take a connection from the fused spur into the cooker terminal in 6sq cabe. Then I could fix that fused spur on the wall behind the cooker so that you could see it. Then I can still operate the cooker from the cooker switch safely. Would that be ok?

DublinDilbert

Kealyboy wrote: »

I like the idea of the cooker being wire to the cooker switch rather than being plugged into a socket on the wall. So it would be acceptable to wire a fused spur to the end of the cooker 6sq cable and then take a connection from the fused spur into the cooker terminal in 6sq cabe. Then I could fix that fused spur on the wall behind the cooker so that you could see it. Then I can still operate the cooker from the cooker switch safely. Would that be ok?

Yes that should be fine, if done correctly

6sq ->switch -> 6sq -> fused spur -> flex -> cooker

You can just use the flex that the repair guy fitted after the fused spur.

Kealyboy

DublinDilbert wrote: »

Yes that should be fine, if done correctly

6sq ->switch -> 6sq -> fused spur -> flex -> cooker

You can just use the flex that the repair guy fitted after the fused spur.

The way he did it was he wired the 6sq cable from the cooker switch straight into the cookers terminal block:

cooker switch -> 6sq -> cooker

Im goin disconnect the 6sq cable from the cooker connect the end of that to a 3amp fused spur and then wire a flex ( like what was originally used when the cooker was plugged in the wall socket, picture was uploaded earlier, the flex that I stripped) from the fused spur into the cooker terminal block:

Cooker switch -> 6sq -> 3amp fused spur -> flex -> cooker

I hope I’m right? and thats safe and ok?

2011

+1 to the advice given.

Anyway back to the OP:

Kealyboy wrote: »

I hope I’m right? and thats safe and ok?

That is the way I would do it. The flex should be heat resistant.

DublinDilbert

Kealyboy wrote: »

The way he did it was he wired the 6sq cable from the cooker switch straight into the cookers terminal block:

cooker switch -> 6sq -> cooker

Im goin disconnect the 6sq cable from the cooker connect the end of that to a 3amp fused spur and then wire a flex ( like what was originally used when the cooker was plugged in the wall socket, picture was uploaded earlier, the flex that I stripped) from the fused spur into the cooker terminal block:

Cooker switch -> 6sq -> 3amp fused spur -> flex -> cooker

I hope I’m right? and thats safe and ok?

Yes your way is fine. I can't believe he got the 6sq and terminated it into a cooker, I don't know how the strain relief would even have clamped over this.

Iderown

Crazy how the item - the RF filter in the mains lead - which is supposed to increase the reliability of the cooker actually is a cause of unreliability. They could have used a higher voltage rating for the capacitors in the filter. Negligible increase in cost.

Kealyboy

DublinDilbert wrote: »

Yes your way is fine. I can't believe he got the 6sq and terminated it into a cooker, I don't know how the strain relief would even have clamped over this.

The cooker switch and 6sq cable was not a new installation, they were always there from when the house was built. The cable was just left behind the cooker and insulation tape taped over the end of it. He just then saw that there and just wired it to the gas cooker instead of using the plug and flex

Spooge_

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/110612785#Comment_110612785

Hi, I know this thread is a couple of years old but I was wondering if you could help. I have a Zanussi stand alone gas cooker which uses an electric igniter to light the burners and oven. Everything works fine, the clock comes on and the igniter lights up everything when you push down on the gas knobs. The oven works off a 220/240v plug, the problem is, when it's left plugged in overnight, the RCD trips out. I can only flick the RCD switch back up once the cooker is unplugged. It's a weird one because if there was a short somewhere, you'd imagine it would trip out immediately and not after a few hours. Thanks for any advice in advance.

thebo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118030140#Comment_118030140

Having same issue here. Trips out randomly. Did you manage find cause?