Am I wrong for being angry at my parents incapabilities?

ipsyoopsy

This is a long post, so thank you if you get to the end.

I turned 23 at the end of March so this all began over a decade ago. When I was 12/13, my mother started showing signs that she was mentally unwell. For about a year, she mentally declined to the point where I was completely taken out of school aged 12/13 because she felt there was no need for formal education. I was taken out of the country in the middle of the night and she left us on the street for a week+ with zero money, zero food or anything else, in an entirely different country, while she rambled about all sorts of disturbing things to me. I vividly remember her falling asleep at the side of the street while standing and I remember stealing from shops just to get a drink and sleeping inside emergency room bathroom cubicles for an hour or so until she got paranoid that we had to move on. I cant remember how she got a hold of her male cousin (in his mid-late 50s), and we slept on the floor of her hoarder/weirdo/mentally unwell cousins 'house' SURROUNDED by mountains of books and clutter. I had no change of clothes, and in those six weeks we neither left that little space in the upstairs of his home or ate anything other than the sandwiches he would buy for us from the shop. Apparently my father reported us 'missing' back home, but in the six weeks that his 12/13 year old only daughter was out of the country, he didnt attempt to find me? Eventually my mother decided it was time to go 'home' so she borrowed the money from her cousin and we got coach and ferry back.


When we got back, we 'secretly' stayed in her cousins house (sister to the hoarder who had a disabled son and a very young son in her home along with her daughters in their 20s and her grandchildren constantly visiting) and her very elderly aunts house (mother of her two cousins) literally living in rooms in their tiny houses, never leaving, with all of their own extended families wondering wtf was going on. I had lost SO much weight and looked emaciated (when I look back). My father apparently didnt know that we were staying in my mothers relatives homes, and was eventually informed by someone, and he came into the house crying. I vaguely remember my mother asking her cousin to get the keys for our family home which was out in the countryside from him, and i remember her telling him she wouldnt go back home if he was there, and she and I were going to live back out there alone. For some ****ed up reason or another, even after my father witnessed his wife, my mother, completely losing her mind, her sitting in bed with me all day, her taking me out of school even before she took me out of the country, she would sit in bed with me ALL day and stay up ALL night telling me all sorts of things. Rambling about angels, jesus coming back, she was deeply paranoid and was convinced she was 'special' and that the world was going to end. It could go on forever. Not only that, but her own twin sister was fully aware she was mentally unwell and my mother terrified her niece (her twin sisters daughter) with her ramblings and even tried to lock her into the bathroom to stop her leaving, to which her sister reacted violently and removed her daughter from the house. Her brother was aware (because when she took me out of the country she dumped her car outside his home and told him my father tried to stab her). That particular brother even let his own son book our tickets for the bus, where did he think we were going? I remember him saying 'Are you alright' to my mother in this passive aggressive tone, and my mother stormed out with me shortly after. A sister even flew over from AUSTRALIA in this time, specifically to go and see my mother, was aware we were living in the rooms of our relatives and that my father didnt know where I was, met us in the local town, seen my mother was mentally unwell and did NOTHING.


This is already way too long and this isnt even 0.1% of the ****ing madness, but its impossible to express it. Very long story short, I didnt go back to school at all and lived out in the house in the middle of the countryside with my mother getting worse, and worse and worse to the point where she thought people in newspapers were corresponding with things she had said to me/thought the people on the television screen were communicating with us. In the time I was in the countryside, she told me some incredibly disturbing things that no 12/13 year old should ever hear. I have no idea what i ate or survived on. So my father knows whats going on, and once a week he used to call around and drop a box of sweets, literally chocolate bars and bags of sweets to the house. My father was completely aware that his mentally ill wife wasnt taking care of me or herself in any way whatsoever, and a grown man in his 40s did NOTHING but drop off a box of junk food to the door of the house every week. Anyway, months go by and all of this ended in her having a massive mental breakdown in the middle of the night she drove off (my father had gone and retrieved her car that she had dumped outside her brothers house in another country and had driven it back home) after playing music extremely loudly at like, 2am. She had been looking at me with this INSANE look in her eyes and literally took off running down stairs saying something about 'the gift', and made a scene in the town nearest our home, she once again drove to her elderly aunts house and was rambling about god knows what. I called my father in the middle of the night and told him she had driven away and he collected me. My mothers cousin appeared at the house with her son in law, and I remember her telling me ''your mother isnt well''. Her poor elderly mother probably rang her telling her my mother was back and had lost her mind. She apparently locked herself in her car and wouldnt come out. A group of locals and the local doctor had gathered around her car and she was shouting for some of them to go away because she deemed them 'evil'. Anyways, she was institutionalised for 2 weeks and she used to be SO angry with my father for 'signing her in'. In that time, her brother travelled over, came to our home and helped my father and I 'clear' the house. We had been living in absolute squalor and I remember my father being extremely angry when he saw the mess all the plates all the stale food, all the rubbish and wrappers and all the dirt and filth. She had made an actual shrine of holy statues and things she had cut out of magazines in the sitting room overnight in the space where the tv she had brought upstairs used to be. Her brother visited her while she was locked up, my father and her brother dragged me around every school in the local area to try and enroll me, took me to any old hairdresser to cut my very long unkempt raggedy hair. The hairdresser completely botched it, she basically just hacked my hair off. I was shipped off to my mothers twin sister shortly after that who just grilled me about the whole situation and went through all of my mothers personal documents in her home and questioned me about them. And shortly after this, I was just sent into a new school like nothing had happened, after not being in education for a year, with no friends, no social skills, very obvious anxiety and social awkwardness and not knowing anyone. I would frequently make myself sick in front of both of my parents, I would scream/cry/have emotional breakdowns in front of them. I would be in very clear emotional distress, hysterically crying and neither of them did anything. Well maybe except my father shouting back at me saying ''what the **** is wrong with you?''.


In the years that followed all of this, my father became more and more angry at my mother, my mother became more dismissive of my father and I. All he would do is rant about how he wasted his life with her and tell me how depressed and suicidal he was. He would have frequent very aggressively angry outbursts shouting and screaming, treated me like his therapist, even till this day talks to me like im his shrink. I was about 14 or 15 when he came home holding a tie from a suit he was wearing telling me he was going to end his life with it in a very aggressive manner. He has confided in me things he never should have to his teenage daughter. My mother was completely mentally absent for years afterwards, like a literal zombie. I left school for GOOD six months after I had returned because my father had left the country for 'work' after my mother decided she hated him again and wanted him out and she just didnt bother taking me to school and didnt want me going to school once again. My father had been renting a small house when he had been told to leave in the midst of the breakdown, so basically as soon as he gave up his rental and moved back in the countryside, she decided it was time for him to FO again. So he left me, alone with her again in the middle of nowhere. She would just sit upstairs in her bed all day every day, and because I was out of school again I was sitting in bed all day every day watching repeats on dvd (tv connection didnt work anymore) except now I was depressed, self harming, obsessively hating my appearance, lonely, and extremely anxious. She went back to living in squalor instantly. I literally lived off of ramen noodles, and I have no clue what she ate. I got into a relationship very quickly after this with a man YEARS older than me, fell in with a very bad crowd and went down the typical drugs and unproductivity path you would expect a teenager with a bunch of problems she doesnt know how to deal with to. And I kid you not from that relationship to this very day, most things in my life have been one big ****ing traumatic mess. I am a total, utter and complete train wreck and the things ive mentioned here arent 0.1% of the in-depth, complex madness that has taken place for the past decade. Its insane because both my parents come from well-off, respectable families.


Am I wrong for still blaming my parents for my entire life being a wreck, for my physical and mental health issues, my eating disorder/anorexia, my emotional state and my inability to be in a non-dysfunctional relationship?

That is indeed harrowing.

Is it natural to feel aggrieved? Yes. Does it help much, probably not.

Your mother seems to have been badly let down as the person described is clearly unwell and needed state help. And you by extension.

Your post comes across very articulate so some education was achieved.

You've detailed your past. What's the plan for the future? How old are you now? What's your relationship like with your mother and father now?

Jesus Christ..
That's fairly severe alright..
Like, really, no, you're probably not wrong for blaming them. But, your mother was obviously seriously mentally ill. You have to ask yourself is there any point in blame really at this stage?..
You're 23 now. You can attempt to live an independent life.
Decide what you would like to do. Think about how you can work towards that.
Going from dysfunctional relationship to dysfunctional relationship probably isn't the best idea either..
TBH I'd suggest trying to keep away from the drugs.. They don't really help, they just numb you..
You can start to work your way out of this..

I know how this all sounds too..
Try to get to a counsellor, to try to work through some of it..

Take care of yourself first anyway..
You can change this though..
And the sooner you start the better..


Mind yourself..

shesty

You can blame your parents.I think you can probably see yourself that they are the root cause of many of your issues.

I guess the thing is that you can blame them for everything, looking back constantly, or you can look forward and try to make the best of things.With the attitude of...ok things are fcked up but I am going to take control over my life as best I can.

And get counselling.You need some help with working through some of that stuff.

Xterminator

Am I wrong for still blaming my parents for my entire life being a wreck, physical and mental health, my eating disorder/anorexia my emotional state and my inability to be in a non-dysfunctional relationship?

your mind set is wrong. what good does blaming your parents do you? Does it act as a support that allows you to move on and work through your issues, or does it act as an anchor that ties you to the past, to problems and makes you bitter?!

think about that. you cannot change the cards you were dealt. and there is no doubt you got a sh|tty hand dealt to you in early life. the one thing you can change is how you deal with it.

you need to get some CBT counselling and learn how to process your thoughts differently to channel your energies in a positive way. To view that fact you survived your childhood, and adapted and that it does not need to define you.

PS would you blame a sick person for soiling themselves or being sick in the 1st place? I wouldn't . Its not as obvious but its not right to blame mentally ill person for being ill either or the symptoms of their mental illness. I know your angry, and god knows you have a right to be angry but how you direct that energy will impact you for life.

It sounds to me like your mother wasn't capable of being a mother - and that isn't her fault - nobody chooses to have a mental illness.
However, your father (and your extended family) have seriously neglected their duty to you. To allow a child to continue living like that is a hard one to understand, let alone forgive. I can't imagine how terrifying it must have been.

To have survived your childhood and come through the other side is something.

As previous posters have said; your post is well written, so you've made some progress and, with help from the right therapist, you can get to a point where you can make peace with your past and try to move forward.

Sending you a {virtual hug} and wishing you the best.

B0jangles

To have even survived what you went through is a huge achievement, it's no wonder that you still dealing with all the psychological and emotional injuries you sustained both from your mother and her illness, and from your father and extended family for their total failure to protect you.

Have you been able to physically separate from the situation or do you still have to interact with your parents? I really hope you have been able to get away completely. There's no question in my mind that (speaking as a layperson) to have the best chance of healing and recovering you need to be in as stable, safe and peaceful environment as possible, you need therapy and counselling to help you deal with your trauma, and you need time.

Your anger is 1000% understandable; you were failed by everyone you should have been able to rely on for help, but staying angry isn't going to help you to recover. For your own sake, you need to be able to find a way to leave this in your past and to move onward with your life. Staying angry will keep you reliving that terrible time in your life, and that can only keep on hurting you.
I really hope you can get the support and help you need OP - take care.

ipsyoopsy

Thank you, its probably just about the only 'achievement' I have in my life haha.

I am still in contact with them and I am actually LIVING with them in the same house im talking about for the first time since I was about 15. I moved out at 14 1/2 or 15. I had pretty much no contact with my mother from ages of 15 till last year (im 23 now) and then because of my boyfriend of three years and I breaking up, my physical health taking a nose dive, and just having nowhere else to go I ended up back at my mothers for the first time in years. My fathers health deteriorated quickly (we both have the same chronic health problem, great genetics huh), so we all started speaking again pretty much because neither my father or I had anywhere else to go, and for some reason my mother was willing for him/I to stay. And my father kind of used the fact that I was already here so he could just come back like 'old days' too. My mother&father had not spoken in the last 8/9 years before now. But I did stay in contact with my father over all these years on the phone mainly. I would see him once or twice a year. My father actually had to get major surgery and has been living in my mothers house ever since. Of course they barely communicate and when they do, its dysfunctional.

Anyways that was a long winded reply, thank you for taking the time to answer and absolutley yes theres no point in holding on the the anger of the past. Its just that sometimes they entirely invalidate my anger/feeling neglected by them when I was still a minor, so sometimes I even question if what they did warrants me feeling the way I do. Which I know it does. Thanks again.

ipsyoopsy

Deleted User wrote: »

It sounds to me like your mother wasn't capable of being a mother - and that isn't her fault - nobody chooses to have a mental illness.
However, your father (and your extended family) have seriously neglected their duty to you. To allow a child to continue living like that is a hard one to understand, let alone forgive. I can't imagine how terrifying it must have been.

To have survived your childhood and come through the other side is something.

As previous posters have said; your post is well written, so you've made some progress and, with help from the right therapist, you can get to a point where you can make peace with your past and try to move forward.

Sending you a {virtual hug} and wishing you the best.

For sure yeah. Nobody chooses to lose their mind, and its genuinely scary to me that her 'family' and 'husband' did nothing to assist their sister/wife or their niece/daughter.

Thank you so much for saying that, and ill definitely go back to therapy and work through some of this. Virtual hugs to you too.

B0jangles

That's very tough OP Is your mother's mental illness under control now?

Is there any chance you could get into a houseshare situation or maybe rent a room from someone in your extended family? I don't know what your health issues are, obviously, but I wouldn't be a bit surprised if they were being made worse by living in such a stressful situation. I'm so sorry I can't think of any better solutions, I really hope someone else can

Hey..

Try to work on developing healthy boundaries for yourself.. Shield yourself from that which is harmful.. There's probably a level of disconnect there now anyway..Use it to protect yourself..

People can get caught in kind of a relationship dynamic that can be next to impossible to break..

But, yeah, try to maintain your boundaries..

It must be fairly tough for you at the minute.. But like, if you have something to work towards, it could be a time of some level of healing of the relationships?..

Take care anyway..

ipsyoopsy

Deleted User wrote: »

That is indeed harrowing.

Is it natural to feel aggrieved? Yes. Does it help much, probably not.

Your mother seems to have been badly let down as the person described is clearly unwell and needed state help. And you by extension.

Your post comes across very articulate so some education was achieved.

You've detailed your past. What's the plan for the future? How old are you now? What's your relationship like with your mother and father now?

Im 23 now, and id love to further my education but honestly feel like im way too behind to even start. Ive just worked retail and fast food from then until now, but I would love to do something more with my life. I know im hardly old at 23 but I just feel like I could never catch up to where people would be at even on an adult education course. As for my relationship with my mother and father now, its a very strained one. From the age of about 15 till last year I had no contact with my mother, but I did speak with my father regularly on the phone who was working abroad and seen him usually once or twice a year. Im actually not working at all right now because I have an ongoing chronic health problem (crohns) that ill be getting surgery for in September, so after I
recover from that I dont know what ill be doing. Ill definitely go back to therapy though.

And thank you for saying that I sounded somewhat articulate. That gave me a little confidence boost.

You do sound reasonably articulate though.. You're not using text speak either so you're probably ahead of 40% of them now too..

If you've a leaving cert you will be eligible to go to college as a mature student next year.. you're still very young.. College isn't really that hard if you don't take the piss..

Decide what you want to do..go for it..

Caranica

OP please don't give up on education. I know people in their 50s who have gone back to school having dropped out at 12. There are some amazing adult education courses out there. Check out early school leavers programmes on citizens information or contact your local ETB.

You've had a difficult start and your post made me want to give you a hug, seems like you missed out on those. But the future is yours to claim. Look forward and do what's right for you.

ipsyoopsy

Deleted User wrote: »

Hey..

Try to work on developing healthy boundaries for yourself.. Shield yourself from that which is harmful.. There's probably a level of disconnect there now anyway..Use it to protect yourself..

People can get caught in kind of a relationship dynamic that can be next to impossible to break..

But, yeah, try to maintain your boundaries..

It must be fairly tough for you at the minute.. But like, if you have something to work towards, it could be a time of some level of healing of the relationships?..

Take care anyway..

I think I am a little numb to the behaviours and things I see/hear from them now. And like you say, theres a level of disconnect there and im not sure if thats a good or a bad thing.

I would love to heal some of the aspects of the relationships I have with my parents, but theyre both so so so unwilling to admit either of them did anything wrong in my years from birth till 12 and especially from 12 till the current day. They both refuse to take any reponsibility for anything that happened. My mother saying things like ''If we had a video, we would see why things are the way they are''. She seems to think its some kind of magical mystical reason that everything has happened and she tells me she is a different person now because of the difficulties she endured and that she would change anything for the world and she claims she 'woke up'. When I speak to my father about it, he either puts his face in his hands and says 'yeah i let you down' or he gets incredibly angry. Its difficult to even attempt to speak to either of them about anything in general a lot of the time, never mind anything relating to them. They get so defensive. The only real reason im in my mother’s home right now is that im really ill with crohns at the moment, awaiting surgery, and will hopefully move on from this/with my life later in the year. However in this lifetime I would love, like you said, If i could heal things with them. But what can I do when im willing to admit any mistakes ive made and they wont even admit that they did any wrong by me. Nothing much.

Thank you for your reply.

ipsyoopsy

Xterminator wrote: »

your mind set is wrong. what good does blaming your parents do you? Does it act as a support that allows you to move on and work through your issues, or does it act as an anchor that ties you to the past, to problems and makes you bitter?!

think about that. you cannot change the cards you were dealt. and there is no doubt you got a sh|tty hand dealt to you in early life. the one thing you can change is how you deal with it.

you need to get some CBT counselling and learn how to process your thoughts differently to channel your energies in a positive way. To view that fact you survived your childhood, and adapted and that it does not need to define you.

PS would you blame a sick person for soiling themselves or being sick in the 1st place? I wouldn't . Its not as obvious but its not right to blame mentally ill person for being ill either or the symptoms of their mental illness. I know your angry, and god knows you have a right to be angry but how you direct that energy will impact you for life.

No thats absolutley true. I do feel guilty for being angry towards my mother, and I feel bad for some of the things I said to her over the years. I know she was in an incredibly vulnerable situation, I think its more her attitude about it all now that surprises me. Shes so dismissive of it/me. Anyways, yeah my GP referred me for CBT and ill give that a try. Thank you for your reply.

ipsyoopsy

B0jangles wrote: »

That's very tough OP Is your mother's mental illness under control now?

Is there any chance you could get into a houseshare situation or maybe rent a room from someone in your extended family? I don't know what your health issues are, obviously, but I wouldn't be a bit surprised if they were being made worse by living in such a stressful situation. I'm so sorry I can't think of any better solutions, I really hope someone else can

Shes nowhere near as bad as she was. She certainly has interesting notions about things and she is a bit 'out there' but she does function (within reason) and is entirely capable of normal conversation (although she can be difficult to communicate with when she disagrees with you about something). Its actually more difficult to speak to my father these days than it is with her. Yeah ill figure out something, either moving into my own rental or a house share. My illness is crohns disease/UC and people have no idea how all consuming and painful it can be. I dont know if stress contributes to flare ups but like you say it probably doesnt help. Thanks for your replies.

Ursus Horribilis

There's not a lot I can add to this other than to hope the you can come through this with therapy. You were badly let down by the adults in your life and have paid the price for that.

I strongly urge you to find out what you can do to return to education. At 23 you have absolutely not left things too late. I remember a guy in my college class who'd left school at 15 and he got better marks than I did. He was in his late 20s at the time. The thing about older students is that they're more mature and focused. And they want it more. It would be tragic if you languished in minimum wage jobs. I think you are capable of a whole lot more if only you had the confidence.

ipsyoopsy

Caranica wrote: »

OP please don't give up on education. I know people in their 50s who have gone back to school having dropped out at 12. There are some amazing adult education courses out there. Check out early school leavers programmes on citizens information or contact your local ETB.

You've had a difficult start and your post made me want to give you a hug, seems like you missed out on those. But the future is yours to claim. Look forward and do what's right for you.

I sometimes wonder if I would have to do specific courses/ get a tutor before id even join an adult education course. Im just SO far behind even little kids in 1st year of secondary school. Its embarrassing. Ill definitely look up courses though. Thank you.

But like, speaking as someone who has been fairly mentally ill a couple of times.. from where your mother was coming from, she was probably doing what she thought was right at the time..

Relationships are hard.. Parenthood is hard..They probably get way harder when mental illness is involved..

Don't necessarily focus on healing things with them.. focus on yourself and develop a plan for your post operation life..
Do that, and try to be as understanding as possible, and the relationship with your parents will heal themselves..

ipsyoopsy

ipsyoopsy wrote: »

Im just SO far behind even little kids in 1st year of secondary school. Its embarrassing. Ill definitely look up courses though.

You don't come across that way. The thing about third level or PLC courses is that they don't require much, if any, prior learning (unless they require maths or a science subject like nursing).

It's definitely worth considering once your operation.

Good luck.

Caranica

[Deleted User] wrote: »

You don't come across that way. The thing about third level or PLC courses is that they don't require much, if any, prior learning (unless they require maths or a science subject like nursing).

It's definitely worth considering once your operation.

Good luck.

There are also return to school courses for people who haven't done a leaving cert, might be easier but definitely citizens information and the ETB will help the OP to find a good fit.

ipsyoopsy

shesty wrote: »

You can blame your parents.I think you can probably see yourself that they are the root cause of many of your issues.

I guess the thing is that you can blame them for everything, looking back constantly, or you can look forward and try to make the best of things.With the attitude of...ok things are fcked up but I am going to take control over my life as best I can.

And get counselling.You need some help with working through some of that stuff.

No youre absolutely right looking back to the past and blaming people doesnt achieve anything positive. Im waiting to go back to therapy at the moment. Thanks.

B0jangles

When you are feeling better, maybe have a look at the ETB courses available in your region

https://www.etbi.ie/etbs/directory-of-etbs/
https://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/education/vocational_education_and_training/fas_training_allowances.html#lda30f

They are up to two years long, have a wide range of subject matter, are free, and you can keep your social welfare entitlements in full while you are on one. It could be a great way for you to build your confidence, because from seeing the way you are able to write, that's the main thing holding you back from further education*

*I Just re-read this and in case it's not clear: I mean your confidence is holding you back because your ability to write is great!

pq0n1ct4ve8zf5

Your anger is completely legitimate, what happened to you was atrocious and none of the adults in your life sufficiently prioritised your welfare. Of course you're angry, and with the knowledge your mother was very sick it's going to be a complex anger.

You cannot make them acknowledge what you went through and their responsibility for it. They MAY get there themselves some day but living in hope or expectation of that happening is not a good way to go, you need to try and heal yourself and build your life on the assumption that it won't ever happen. As you've seen while living with them recently, banging your head off that particular wall not only gets you nowhere but it's leading to you doubting yourself.

If you were to return to education, what kind of thing would you like to do? How did you do in school before yoy left, did you have favourite subjects? I agree you're articulate and clearly intelligent, I know it's daunting but I guarantee you, you are well able. You have had a sh1t start in life but you are so young, and it sounds like you do have the internal resources to overcome it.

However, you need to sort your head and your health first. Getting back to therapy is a big priority. Were you happy with your therapist before, did you find the process helpful?

Also, are you getting treatment for your eating disorder or are you at least keeping on top of it somewhat yourself? Crohns and colitis with an ED on top sounds like a recipe for serious trouble and the stress of your living situation seems to me like it could exacerbate any or all of them.

I agree with other posters about education - you are not as behind as you think you are, from reading your well constructed posts.

But, if you want to boost your confidence before committing to 'proper' course, try doing a short course (8 evenings a week, or something) to get your toe in the water.

If you have a local community centre, there should be a few options, or check out your local library. By doing a short course, you can try it out and realise how doable it is and you can decide what area of interest would suit.

ipsyoopsy

Rebekah Kind Phone wrote: »

Your anger is completely legitimate, what happened to you was atrocious and none of the adults in your life sufficiently prioritised your welfare. Of course you're angry, and with the knowledge your mother was very sick it's going to be a complex anger.

You cannot make them acknowledge what you went through and their responsibility for it. They MAY get there themselves some day but living in hope or expectation of that happening is not a good way to go, you need to try and heal yourself and build your life on the assumption that it won't ever happen. As you've seen while living with them recently, banging your head off that particular wall not only gets you nowhere but it's leading to you doubting yourself.

If you were to return to education, what kind of thing would you like to do? How did you do in school before yoy left, did you have favourite subjects? I agree you're articulate and clearly intelligent, I know it's daunting but I guarantee you, you are well able. You have had a sh1t start in life but you are so young, and it sounds like you do have the internal resources to overcome it.

However, you need to sort your head and your health first. Getting back to therapy is a big priority. Were you happy with your therapist before, did you find the process helpful?

Also, are you getting treatment for your eating disorder or are you at least keeping on top of it somewhat yourself? Crohns and colitis with an ED on top sounds like a recipe for serious trouble and the stress of your living situation seems to me like it could exacerbate any or all of them.

Yeah I really do feel bad for my mother when I think of the complete lack of support at the worst time in her life from the people who were meant to care about her most. She still has no support to this day, my father doesnt either actually. Neither of them have any family contact and the few times they have spoken to their families in the last almost 9 years it has never ended well. And I do know that its silly for me to expect them to apologise or own up to anything. Maybe through their eyes, they did the best they could, thats the impression I get from them. idk.

I always wanted to become a nurse when I was little, and id still love to do that today, however I dont think thatd be very realistic at this point. I was always quite good at school when I was little too. I enjoyed most subjects overall, I think I mostly enjoyed English. At this moment in time I have no idea what sort of education path to take, and like you say it all seems a little bit daunting and out of reach right now but im sure ill figure something out.

When I went to therapy before, the sessions were ALL about my relationship at the time/struggling to cope with my health/fatigue/anxiety, so when she asked about my family I barely went into any detail at all and sort of downplayed it for some reason. I dont know if I found the therapy helpful. but then again I dont think I was even in the headspace to apply the things she was trying to help me with. I think id be a lot more willing to try this time.

And no im not currently getting any treatment for the ED. Ironically, because of the crohns and UC I cant eat as much as I used to, so its kind of not at the forefront of my mind for now. Thank you so much for your reply and being so encouraging.

ipsyoopsy

Deleted User wrote: »

I agree with other posters about education - you are not as behind as you think you are, from reading your well constructed posts.

But, if you want to boost your confidence before committing to 'proper' course, try doing a short course (8 evenings a week, or something) to get your toe in the water.

If you have a local community centre, there should be a few options, or check out your local library. By doing a short course, you can try it out and realise how doable it is and you can decide what area of interest would suit.

Actually that sounds like a good idea. Maybe starting off just doing an evening course and getting back into the routine of it all after all this time. Ill check out whats available. Thank you.

Paddy Cow

ipsyoopsy wrote: »

I sometimes wonder if I would have to do specific courses/ get a tutor before id even join an adult education course. Im just SO far behind even little kids in 1st year of secondary school. Its embarrassing. Ill definitely look up courses though. Thank you.

When I came back from doing the year in Australia, I decided I'd had enough of hospitality and wanted to get an office job. I was barely computer literate so I did a five month FAS (called Solas now) course. The course was brilliant because it assumed no previous computer experience. It went at a slow pace and I even learned to touch type. They do CV and interview skills. There was a ten week placement at the end and I got kept on in that job for three years. We had older women on the course who could barely turn on a computer and at the end were well able to use word, save files, look through a computer directory etc.

I cannot recommend enough contacting your local social welfare department and asking for a meeting with an advisor. They might even refer you to Seetec/JobPath. They get a bad rep but if you are actually looking to upskill and eventually find work, they are really good. I was referred to them as I was working part time and they paid for me to do an online ECDL course. Even though I'm now well able to use a computer, it looks good to have an official cert on the ould cv. The online course might be less daunting for you as you can do it at home and the etutors are very good at getting back if you have any difficulties.

Solas also do evening courses if a full time course is too much for you. For someone who barely had any second level education, you come across articulate and intelligent in your posts. I think you would do very well on any of these entry courses, which would boost your self-esteem and confidence. You can easily build on these with a view to entering University. You are 23 and that qualifies you as a mature student so you don't need leaving cert points. Most colleges run an access program for mature students. I think Springboard might be an option. The access courses are great because there's a lot of support and most people doing them have been out of education for years, or like yourself they never finished it and now they are determined to give it a go.

Please don't think that not finishing secondary school means you are destined for a life time of minimum wage/unskilled jobs. There are loads of options out there to help you get a better life, you just need to know where to look. 23 is still very young. With the right guidance you can get educated and away from your parents. You have every right to be angry and bitter with them but holding onto that is only going to ruin the rest of your life. It took strength to survive your upbringing but you did and unlike a lot of people who don't figure it out until their 40's, when their life is half over, educating yourself is a far better way to escape your circumstances, than drinking or taking drugs to block it out.

I wish you all the best.

shesty

Ah no OP.You are extremely literate.There are people who go back to do the Leaving in their 40s and they can barely read or write.I would definitely consider some further education,when you are ready and your health allows it.

As for your parents downplaying how you feel...they are wrong.Now obviously, they probably don't know that and that's what they believe, but as an outsider looking in (and a parent myself), their behaviour did have a profound effect on you.It would be hard not to be angry at them for it.But equally a certain degree of it was out of their control, I suppose, so holding on to the anger would probably be most detrimental to you.

Best of luck, you have had a hell of a start really and I hope you manage to find yourself and figure out what you want from life.You are young yet and have plenty of time.

zoe 3619

ipsyoopsy wrote: »

Actually that sounds like a good idea. Maybe starting off just doing an evening course and getting back into the routine of it all after all this time. Ill check out whats available. Thank you.

So sorry to hear what you've gone through.
Go and see an adult education guidance person.(ETB?)
Doing it myself,and I'm much older than you are.The range of courses are amazing and at all different levels.
Think you probably need to move on from that household though.All people are fallible-your mother was obviously sick and your father maybe thought he tried but obviously failed you,but best not to immerse yourself back in it.
Better to be looking forward than backward.
Fetchcourses.ie,or Qualifax might be worth a look.

Another day

For someone who missed large chunks of education you are extremely articulate so bravo there. Have you looked at springboard? Lots of courses for employed and unemployed for fee. Not good with hyperlink https://www.education.ie/en/Learners/Information/Upskilling-and-Training-options/springboard%202019.html
You are amazing and so strong, stay focused on the future not the past (I'm a fine one to talk!)

ILoveYourVibes

No i think it would be abnormal not to be angry.

OP as someone who also had an unstable childhood with a mentally ill mother (though not quite as severe as yours), I can say that it is 100% normal to feel angry, in fact it's a good thing to a certain extent. It's only when we become adults that we can look back and understand just how badly we were treated. The memories and realisations come in waves.

It's important to get therapy in order to process what happened to you. It's ok to feel angry but you don't want to become consumed by it and eventually you need to move on from it.

I would really recommend a book called Homecoming by John Bradshaw, and the website 'out of the fog.' You can get through this and build a good life for yourself.

ipsyoopsy

Flying Fox wrote: »

OP as someone who also had an unstable childhood with a mentally ill mother (though not quite as severe as yours), I can say that it is 100% normal to feel angry, in fact it's a good thing to a certain extent. It's only when we become adults that we can look back and understand just how badly we were treated. The memories and realisations come in waves.

It's important to get therapy in order to process what happened to you. It's ok to feel angry but you don't want to become consumed by it and eventually you need to move on from it.

I would really recommend a book called Homecoming by John Bradshaw, and the website 'out of the fog.' You can get through this and build a good life for yourself.

Yeah thats exactly it, the realisations come in waves and its honestly scary to think of such a young person in the midst of such madness and neglect. Thank you so much for the book and website recommendations, Ill check those out.

ipsyoopsy

Another day wrote: »

For someone who missed large chunks of education you are extremely articulate so bravo there. Have you looked at springboard? Lots of courses for employed and unemployed for fee. Not good with hyperlink https://www.education.ie/en/Learners/Information/Upskilling-and-Training-options/springboard%202019.html
You are amazing and so strong, stay focused on the future not the past (I'm a fine one to talk!)

Thank you so much for saying that thats very kind. Ill look into Springboard and all the other sites people have suggested. Thanks again.

ipsyoopsy

zoe 3619 wrote: »

So sorry to hear what you've gone through.
Go and see an adult education guidance person.(ETB?)
Doing it myself,and I'm much older than you are.The range of courses are amazing and at all different levels.
Think you probably need to move on from that household though.All people are fallible-your mother was obviously sick and your father maybe thought he tried but obviously failed you,but best not to immerse yourself back in it.
Better to be looking forward than backward.
Fetchcourses.ie,or Qualifax might be worth a look.

Its good to hear that youve had a positive experience on your course. Im sure he does think he tried, and the more I think about it, the more upset I feel on behalf of my mother. Theres nothing scarier than losing all control over yourself as an adult and it having fall-out for the people closest to you. Youre absolutley right and I'll move out of this environment as soon as its humanly possible to do so. Thank you.

ipsyoopsy

Paddy Cow wrote: »

When I came back from doing the year in Australia, I decided I'd had enough of hospitality and wanted to get an office job. I was barely computer literate so I did a five month FAS (called Solas now) course. The course was brilliant because it assumed no previous computer experience. It went at a slow pace and I even learned to touch type. They do CV and interview skills. There was a ten week placement at the end and I got kept on in that job for three years. We had older women on the course who could barely turn on a computer and at the end were well able to use word, save files, look through a computer directory etc.

I cannot recommend enough contacting your local social welfare department and asking for a meeting with an advisor. They might even refer you to Seetec/JobPath. They get a bad rep but if you are actually looking to upskill and eventually find work, they are really good. I was referred to them as I was working part time and they paid for me to do an online ECDL course. Even though I'm now well able to use a computer, it looks good to have an official cert on the ould cv. The online course might be less daunting for you as you can do it at home and the etutors are very good at getting back if you have any difficulties.

Solas also do evening courses if a full time course is too much for you. For someone who barely had any second level education, you come across articulate and intelligent in your posts. I think you would do very well on any of these entry courses, which would boost your self-esteem and confidence. You can easily build on these with a view to entering University. You are 23 and that qualifies you as a mature student so you don't need leaving cert points. Most colleges run an access program for mature students. I think Springboard might be an option. The access courses are great because there's a lot of support and most people doing them have been out of education for years, or like yourself they never finished it and now they are determined to give it a go.

Please don't think that not finishing secondary school means you are destined for a life time of minimum wage/unskilled jobs. There are loads of options out there to help you get a better life, you just need to know where to look. 23 is still very young. With the right guidance you can get educated and away from your parents. You have every right to be angry and bitter with them but holding onto that is only going to ruin the rest of your life. It took strength to survive your upbringing but you did and unlike a lot of people who don't figure it out until their 40's, when their life is half over, educating yourself is a far better way to escape your circumstances, than drinking or taking drugs to block it out.

I wish you all the best.

Thank you so much for all of your advice and encouragement. And youre absolutley right, educating/bettering yourself is a much better option than the alternative route of the dole, drink, and drugs. Lol ****ing hell, anything else is better than the drugs/drink dole life. Thanks again.

ipsyoopsy

Wow, those poor folks who cant read or write are probably some of the only folks in Ireland who actually have less of an education than I do, beyond my grandmothers generation haha. And yeah I dont think there was any malicious intent from either one of my parents, Its just one giant mess. Thank you.

Finchie1276

Hello,
I think you are great to have survived that and to be in a place where you have at least some sense of being able to see what was wrong about what you experienced.

We are brought into this world as tiny defenceless babies, we need our parents to keep us alive, to mind us, keep us well, help us grow up and progress through life.

What happened to you was, on so many levels terribly wrong and damaging. There are so many levels where your needs were not met.

Given that you are living with your parents who put you through all that you went through tells me that in a way your self esteem is very very battered. If you had healthy self esteem you would be no contact with both.
That you have no self esteem is OK, you can learn that. That you are realising the wrongs of all you had to out up with is super encouraging.


There is a lot of pain to go back over with a psychotherapist to help you understand the failings of your parents. In my case I was stuck on the same question - how can I not feel wrong about what my parents did? Through a lot of work and good therapy I learned that parents are not perfect, they make mistakes, put themselves first, are neglectful, aware of damage and don't fix it... you get the picture. So, its easy to hate them or be angry.


There is no 'wrong' with anger.But being confused or stuck with anger stops us from being healthy with ourselves, setting boundaries and moving on to be the better version of ourselves we can be. I think what you are asking is 'is it appropriate that I be angry' and I think the answer is yes it is appropriate. When we ask that question we can start to see where our anger starts, and that starts with hurt. You were hurt by the people who should have loved you.

From that point you can start to see that to just be angry is not useful, you can feel angry and move your life to a healthier place. You may feel broken, unloved, stuck but you can move past that.

The first thing I would do is try to move out. I would read up on family dynamics, the role of the scapegoat in family dynamics and family roles. I guess you will get very angry as you learn more, thats no bad thing. If you can engage with a psychotherapist who works with family dynamics that would be ideal. Expensive but worth it. It will take time. Eventually you will move to the place where you can feel your anger, see your parents failings as not about you but about them and be in a healthier place. Everything you have written points to a survivor who has great insight and self compassion but is stuck.

Try to imaging getting better as a spiral as opposed to steps - sometimes it feels we are not getting better but we are slowly moving on up and away from the difficulties.

Your parents are very damaged and its now your chance to put that to rest and move on. I would recommend no contact as your eventual aim as I dounbt very much that either of your parents are in a position to explain or put into context what they did to you. I really wish you al the best, you are taking baby steps but on this journey you can never walk backwards.

Take care.

Emme

OP you have every right to be angry with your parents and the rest of your family. People say they don't know what they were doing but plenty of families with deprivation and addiction treat their children better.

Don't forgive them, there is no excuse for what they did. Use the anger to propel yourself forward. Your health issues need not be permanent. If you can get yourself to a better place in life they may well improve.

Work on getting back into education. You are articulate and intelligent and when you are in a course you will catch up fast.

I know it isn't easy these days but work towards leaving your parents' home. For good. Otherwise you will end up being an angry miserable full time carer to both of them. Despite their treatment of you they will try and blackmail you with all they done for you, how they didn't let you die and took you back in after your relationship failed. Blah blah blah. Never mind how they neglected you and abused you. Abuse takes many forms, it needn't be sexual.

Your extended family might not like you leaving your parents house when the time comes because it will push the responsibility onto them. Good enough for them, they watched you being neglected and abused and did nothing. Letting you sleep on their floors was nothing, you would do that for a dog. Often well off "respectable" families would rather treat their younger members badly if it means not losing face.

People won't like this but you are fully justified in using people and doing what you have to do (without putting yourself in harms way or engaging in dangerous work) to get out of there and cover the ground you lost. It's your turn now and let your parents fend for themselves when the opportunity comes for you to move out. No contact ever again with any of them.

Again, use your anger to singlemindedly propel yourself forward. Channeled correctly your anger will help you.

Good luck.

JustAThought

No you are not wrong to be angry and outraged at how you were treated by your family and at how appalingly your extended family treated your welfare and ignored all but your most basic needs. Perhaps they were all also brought up in extremely chaotic ways (hoarding, mental illness seen as a non doctor normal thing etc) and were totally out of their depth in even beginning to know how to help - daily sandwiches, allowed sleep on floor, etc - they gave but in a chaotic way where a different approach would have been transformational to your life.

You will make yourself ill trying to unravel or change the past - your dad couldn't cope, neither he nor her relations had the copung skills to manage, and you suffered terribly as a result.

You DO sound like a really smart articulate person. 23 is still young and far too young to ignore all the chances of full time education. After your surgery and recovery try snd see if you can get signed into some kind of degree course - many doors are opened with degrees and you can apply to get a grant for rent/living costs as well as fees. A lot of the springboard courses are interesting and fine BUT you dont want to use up your mature student status and one chance at getting a degree paid for by using it up by doing a springboard course. You could do something lifechanging like business with accountancy where you would always be employed and have a great salary and future in business - or get sponsored after for exemptions to do the professiinal qualification while being paid by s company & mentored along. With a long term illness like Chrons or UC I assume a solid stable respected qualification that will hold you up for life would be a good path.

You sound understandably angry but bear in mind anger and dwelling on the mess of a past your family created and managed will eat away at your health and happiness. You mom was mentally ill, you dad could notcope or manage her or your needs and is now also still angry and unwell over it all. Your family had not the skills to do it differently or know how to approach your care and needs. Dont let your past ruin your future. You do not have to understand, or forgive, to move on. Draw a line under it and if you can place it one side and make the posotive choices that will improve yiur quality of life and mental headspace instead of thinking and dwelling on people and a past you cannot change or understand .

Your future is bright -dont let other peoples inadequacies and failures to cope ruin your future. Look forward, not back. Your hope and dreams lies ahead of you - follow them, not other peoples failures.

Neyite

You had a chaotic, neglectful and abused childhood. Any anger is entirely normal and natural. But you've got determination and drive to succeed and I've no doubt you'll come out on top.

You are only 23. This is the perfect age to go back to college and get that education you want. You are still young enough to enjoy college life but old enough not to piss away the chance like some that are straight out of LC might.

I'm 44 and my friend and I have decided to enrol in Sept for a qualification that we both want to do. (and I was never academic to begin with). Another woman I know is resitting her Leaving Cert maths. Same age as me.

I think that you could really do with counselling to sort it all out in your head. And finding some sort of physical distance from the ongoing dysfunction - maybe after your operation you might be able to find a flatshare or something.

This thread on mumsnet is where I think you can find people who really get it. Some have been through worse, some through far more benign types of parental dysfunction but all get treated with respect and kindness and you get a lot of insight from experienced and wise people.
All the best.

StinkyMunkey

After reading that, I feel somewhat privileged about my upbringing. Thinking I had it tough because my parents separated when I was 7.

I think if they made your life into a movie I'd feel physically ill and emotionally disturbed after watching it, how you survived is beyond me. Your obviously stronger than you give yourself credit for.

Your mother and father really had no business being parents, and your extended family failed you on an epic scale. I'm surprised your able to string a sentence together let alone be so articulate. It's obvious with more education you will broaden your horizons.

Your story makes things that seem like a big deal at the time seem totally trivial.

I genuinely hope life cuts you break, god knows you fcuking deserve it.

ipsyoopsy

Good luck to you and your friend with going back to education in September! I hope it all works out. Thanks for your advice.

ipsyoopsy

Thank you so much I appreciate it.

ipsyoopsy

Thank you for your other suggestions! And youre absolutely right a stable, respectable qualification is what im aiming for.

ipsyoopsy

ipsyoopsy wrote: »

Thank you for your other suggestions! And youre absolutely right a stable, respectable qualification is what im aiming for.

That's totally doable.. decide what direction you want to go and go about working towards it..
Good luck with everything anyway..