To buy or build a house ??

Jake5991

Hi just looking for a bit of advice my fiance and i are renting together and we are looking to build a house in Kildare . We are lucky as my parents have land . We are both working .

Just wondering how would it cost to build a 180 sq metre house to a reasonably high standard?

And also do the banks release the money to you at stages when you are building compared to just giving you a loan straight away when you are building ?

Any info would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks

harr

Jake5991 wrote: »

Hi just looking for a bit of advice my fiance and i are renting together and we are looking to build a house in Kildare . We are lucky as my parents have land . We are both working .

Just wondering how would it cost to build a 120 sq metre house to a reasonably high standard?

And also do the banks release the money to you at stages when you are building compared to just giving you a loan straight away when you are building ?

Any info would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks

The way planing is in Kildare at moment I wouldn’t hold my breath waiting on planing permission. I know two couples personally who can’t get planing. They both come from farming backgrounds and are building on family land.
To answer your other question , you draw down the money in stages from the bank while building.
Your builder will let you know at what stages he needs the money.

Jake5991

harr wrote: »

The way planing is in Kildare at moment I wouldn’t hold my breath waiting on planing permission. I know two couples personally who can’t get planing. They both come from farming backgrounds and are building on family land.
To answer your other question , you draw down the money in stages from the bank while building.
Your builder will let you know at what stages he needs the money.

Ok thats not good news i didnt think they would refuse you on your own land. But thanks for the input !

sydthebeat

Jake5991 wrote: »

Hi just looking for a bit of advice my fiance and i are renting together and we are looking to build a house in Kildare . We are lucky as my parents have land . We are both working .

Just wondering how would it cost to build a 180 sq metre house to a reasonably high standard?

And also do the banks release the money to you at stages when you are building compared to just giving you a loan straight away when you are building ?

Any info would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks

180 SQ M to a reasonably high standard, finished, built by a contractor.... would realistically currently come in around €300,000

harr

https://www.leinsterleader.ie/news/community-news/423311/questions-raised-again-over-kildare-county-council-s-rural-planning-approvals.html

Jake5991

sydthebeat wrote: »

180 SQ M to a reasonably high standard, finished, built by a contractor.... would realistically currently come in around €300,000

Ok and would be for a bungalow or two storey ?

sydthebeat

Jake5991 wrote: »

Ok and would be for a bungalow or two storey ?

allow about 10% more for a bungalow

Jake5991

sydthebeat wrote: »

allow about 10% more for a bungalow

Oh ok and how come a bungalow costs more i thought it would be cheaper as its less building materials ?

sydthebeat

Jake5991 wrote: »

Oh ok and how come a bungalow costs more i thought it would be cheaper as its less building materials ?

think about it......

twice the foundation area.... and twice the roof area.... with the roof being the most expensive structural element

Squall Leonhart

Jake5991 wrote: »

Oh ok and how come a bungalow costs more i thought it would be cheaper as its less building materials ?

180 sq.m of a bungalow has more foundations and concrete slab, insulation, etc than the same floor area of a 2 storey 180 sq.m as it has a larger footprint.

sydthebeat

OSI wrote: »

Seems quite high. Currently have a quote of 320k for a 240sqm 1.5 storey.

turn key finished?

Wildly Boaring

OSI wrote: »

Seems quite high. Currently have a quote of 320k for a 240sqm 1.5 storey.

10k to kildare co co (that's what meath want)
7k ish Irish water
ESB -just did a minor connection in work 2.2k

Engineer and architect?

Say 30 all in for above.

That 320k prob just house so driveway and gates another 15

Shed / garage 10k

Your 320 becomes 375k pretty quickly

Myself and a qs at work came to 400k plus the site for 1.5 story 220 sq metres. Turnkey to decent finish (9ft ceilings, granite, timber floor)

(There was a retaining wall and associated works in there)

Site was 100k with full planning on it.

We're buying

JoeA3

It's really difficult to throw a figure out there for what X sq/metres costs to build, because things will vary hugely depending on:

- where you are in the country (co-council contributions seem to vary hugely depending on county. ~3K in Galway. ~10k+ in Meath).

- ease of connection to water / ESB (any obstacles here will cost $$$)

- architect fees

- complexity of the design

- what finishes are you expecting? A 7k kitchen versus a 40k kitchen? 15k PVC windows versus 30k aluclad? Basic sanitary ware versus marble bathrooms?

- external works (this can be a big one) - driveways, boundary walls (planners usually stipulate a stone faced front boundary wall - add 10k). Garage (20-30k).

So... one man's piece of string could be lot longer than another man's piece of string.

looksee

Just been/going through all this rigmarole, if you are going to build you need a lot of stamina and patience. And money. If, for example, you don't get this job started before I think it is next October the regs for heating/insulation etc are going to increase again, which will put the price up further. The price of building is almost insupportable. Lots of new(ish) planning regs but not the staff to enforce or process them. Engineers/professionals needed at every step of the way, but a lot of them left during the slump, many more are not Chartered - which you need for some processes, there are simply not enough to deal with all the work that is out there. And much the same applies to builders.

Having got planning permission, because of a change in personal circumstances I am now buying and it is better value all round. Yes you will not have a totally air tight, cheaply heated building, you will not have exactly what you want, and you have to battle with the consequences of lack of compliance and/or enforcement that happened when and just before building regs came in, but even so.

However if you buy a place that needs a lot of development you are back in the same situation as if you were building - it can work out more expensive than buying something habitable, or even building new, and you will have to engage with planning and be compliant with regs (putting in approved heating system etc). However since oil is not going to get any cheaper (and if you have any concern for climate issues) you may want to put in the air to water or water to water systems anyway. There are grants available but, as with a lot of government schemes, the cost of getting the grant - in terms of time, effort and inflated prices - may be so much more than just doing it directly that the grant is not worth bothering with.

Buying a house has a very steep learning curve, building one is much steeper. Good luck, but do a lot of homework at every step of the way.

sydthebeat

looksee wrote: »

. If, for example, you don't get this job started before I think it is next October the regs for heating/insulation etc are going to increase again, which will put the price up further..

no.

the operative date of the new regulations depends on when you APPLY for planning permission...

so anyone who has applied for planning permission before 1st November 2019... and substantially complete before 1st Nov 2020..... will be subject to the 2011 regulations

furryhead

Jake5991 wrote: »

Hi just looking for a bit of advice my fiance and i are renting together and we are looking to build a house in Kildare . We are lucky as my parents have land . We are both working .

Just wondering how would it cost to build a 180 sq metre house to a reasonably high standard?

And also do the banks release the money to you at stages when you are building compared to just giving you a loan straight away when you are building ?

Any info would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks

Hi Jake. Currently preparing our 3rd planning application in Kildare. Refused twice. Been an absolute nightmare tbh and going on best part of three years. My advice would be to get the site assessed prior to even hiring your architect. Find out what obstacles might be in your way(environmental etc). Maybe check previous applications in the area and try address any potential problems from the outset. Unfortunately we didn't do this and have lost time and money as a result. Some of the reasons people are been refused is a disgrace tbh. We hope it will pay off for us but the initial excitement of building our own home has just turned into stress and with kids it's made it worse. We have been advised of the importance of having the correct councillor and that certain planners are better to have than others which is complete bulls**t if that is the case.
Found it impossible to get a meeting with a senior planner to see where we need to go or indeed if it is even worth pursuing. But they are happy enough for young couples to spend large chunks of savings to roll the dice.

looksee

Incidentally, if you are thinking of buying, don't put too much reliance on what the adverts tell you. Get a proper Chartered Surveyor on the job and be prepared to pay for a decent survey (think €400 to 500 +). The surveys that banks etc do only establish that the building is not likely to fall down any time soon.

If it is not given, figure out what the eircode of the property is, it will make life much easier.

Familiarise yourself with Land Direct (Land Registry) - check sites and boundaries for yourself, there are a lot of messy sites and boundaries, better to skip past them. Vendors should ensure that their property is Land Registry and Planning compliant, but few do and you can save yourself a lot of grief by checking them yourself. Your solicitor will also check them, but easier to eliminate obviously dodgy ones before you get to that stage.

Have a look at OSI maps (layers) and check for indications of flood plains etc. If you have any suspicions at all get your surveyor to check (they can access better maps).

Look up the planning history of the building. This is hard on older buildings as you have to get paper files but on newer ones check out what has been applied for and what conditions were applied - and if they were conformed with.

Many Estate Agents (not all) have no interest in what they are selling. It could be you innocently trying to buy a small, new looking house that I spotted recently for sale - no eircode, no BER, hm, strange. Checked planning - no evidence of any planning permission at all. How did they get an ESB number? Advertised as a restored house but Google maps and OSI showed no building on the site previously. It won't get any further than a decent solicitor, but a lot of time is going to be wasted over it.

looksee

sydthebeat wrote: »

no.

the operative date of the new regulations depends on when you APPLY for planning permission...

so anyone who has applied for planning permission before 1st November 2019... and substantially complete before 1st Nov 2020..... will be subject to the 2011 regulations

Well yes, but applying for planning is part of 'the job', but I see how you read it. They absolutely will not be starting building by November if they are only thinking about it at the moment.

sydthebeat

looksee wrote: »

Well yes, but applying for planning is part of 'the job', but I see how you read it. They absolutely will not be starting building by November if they are only thinking about it at the moment.

????

did you not read what i said?

all they have to do to avoid the new regulations is to APPLY for planning permission before the 1st November this year.

Thats very achievable at this stage

JoeA3

sydthebeat wrote: »

Thats very achievable at this stage

It is, just about - but they'd need to get their skates on pretty soon and make a decision on engineer/architect and then decide and agree upon a design, get all the paperwork in order, trial holes done, etc, etc...

All the above takes significant time in my experience!

sydthebeat

JoeA3 wrote: »

It is, just about - but they'd need to get their skates on pretty soon and make a decision on engineer/architect and then decide and agree upon a design, get all the paperwork in order, trial holes done, etc, etc...

All the above takes significant time in my experience!

and i work in that industry day in, day out.....

its very achievable

beertons

harr wrote: »

The way planing is in Kildare at moment I wouldn’t hold my breath waiting on planing permission. I know two couples personally who can’t get planing. They both come from farming backgrounds and are building on family land.
To answer your other question , you draw down the money in stages from the bank while building.
Your builder will let you know at what stages he needs the money.

I've been trying to sell a site, to someone 2 miles from it, and neither she not her partner can get permission. Very frustrating for both parties.

Jake5991

Wildly Boaring wrote: »

10k to kildare co co (that's what meath want)
7k ish Irish water
ESB -just did a minor connection in work 2.2k

Engineer and architect?

Say 30 all in for above.

That 320k prob just house so driveway and gates another 15

Shed / garage 10k

Your 320 becomes 375k pretty quickly

Myself and a qs at work came to 400k plus the site for 1.5 story 220 sq metres. Turnkey to decent finish (9ft ceilings, granite, timber floor)

(There was a retaining wall and associated works in there)

Site was 100k with full planning on it.

We're buying

Ok so is that 10k to the council for planning permission and what if they refuse you and you apply again do you have to pay another 10k ??

As regards the irish water can drill into ground for your own water ?

JoeA3

Jake5991 wrote: »

Ok so is that 10k to the council for planning permission and what if they refuse you and you apply again do you have to pay another 10k ??

As regards the irish water can drill into ground for your own water ?

The 10k is a fee you pay before you build. After planning permission is granted of course.

Jake5991

furryhead wrote: »

Hi Jake. Currently preparing our 3rd planning application in Kildare. Refused twice. Been an absolute nightmare tbh and going on best part of three years. My advice would be to get the site assessed prior to even hiring your architect. Find out what obstacles might be in your way(environmental etc). Maybe check previous applications in the area and try address any potential problems from the outset. Unfortunately we didn't do this and have lost time and money as a result. Some of the reasons people are been refused is a disgrace tbh. We hope it will pay off for us but the initial excitement of building our own home has just turned into stress and with kids it's made it worse. We have been advised of the importance of having the correct councillor and that certain planners are better to have than others which is complete bulls**t if that is the case.
Found it impossible to get a meeting with a senior planner to see where we need to go or indeed if it is even worth pursuing. But they are happy enough for young couples to spend large chunks of savings to roll the dice.

Ok thanks for that i really didnt think there was going to be a problem with it because there has been housea going up all around us and they are not even from the area and our land has been in our family for generations .

Did you have keep paying large amounts of money each time you applied for planning permission?

And what are the reason they turned you down just out of curiosity ?

Jake5991

JoeA3 wrote: »

The 10k is a fee you pay before you build. After planning permission is granted of course.

Sorry i meant can you not have your own well instead of paying irish water ridiculous amounts of money

looksee

sydthebeat wrote: »

and i work in that industry day in, day out.....

its very achievable

Indeed, if you work in the industry I have no doubt it is.

However if you are just a Joe Bloggs (sorry Joe, not you) you have to first find an architect and when you have found one, work at their pace to get anything done. Four months is nothing to get to planning stage - even when you have the land ready and waiting. Unless of course you need surveys. And you will certainly need a preplanning meeting and they take 2 months before you start.

JoeA3

looksee wrote: »

Indeed, if you work in the industry I have no doubt it is.

However if you are just a Joe Bloggs (sorry Joe, not you) you have to first find an architect and when you have found one, work at their pace to get anything done. Four months is nothing to get to planning stage - even when you have the land ready and waiting. Unless of course you need surveys. And you will certainly need a preplanning meeting and they take 2 months before you start.

Exactly.

If only I’d hired Sydthebeat.

JoeA3

Jake5991 wrote: »

Sorry i meant can you not have your own well instead of paying irish water ridiculous amounts of money

Irish Water recently standardised their fee. It’s something like €2,200 for a new water connection.
But if your site / location of site is outside their realm of “usual” then that fee could be much higher.

Jake5991

JoeA3 wrote: »

Irish Water recently standardised their fee. It’s something like €2,200 for a new water connection.
But if your site / location of site is outside their realm of “usual” then that fee could be much higher.

Thanks well this sounds like an absolute nightmare . So if you want to spend say 260 k on building a house its gonna cost min an extra 50 k on everything else .
So all in all it seems as though its better to buy house for the same money than build .

Ray Donovan

JoeA3 wrote: »

It's really difficult to throw a figure out there for what X sq/metres costs to build, because things will vary hugely depending on:

- where you are in the country (co-council contributions seem to vary hugely depending on county. ~3K in Galway. ~10k+ in Meath).

- ease of connection to water / ESB (any obstacles here will cost $$)

- architect fees

- complexity of the design

- what finishes are you expecting? A 7k kitchen versus a 40k kitchen? 15k PVC windows versus 30k aluclad? Basic sanitary ware versus marble bathrooms?

- external works (this can be a big one) - driveways, boundary walls (planners usually stipulate a stone faced front boundary wall - add 10k). Garage (20-30k).

So... one man's piece of string could be lot longer than another man's piece of string.

This.

From someone who built 2 years ago.

Wildly Boaring

JoeA3 wrote: »

Irish Water recently standardised their fee. It’s something like €2,200 for a new water connection.
But if your site / location of site is outside their realm of “usual” then that fee could be much higher.

Rate is per service so doubles for foul.
Sure it's about 7 all in for both.

Wildly Boaring

Jake5991 wrote: »

Sorry i meant can you not have your own well instead of paying irish water ridiculous amounts of money

You may be allowed your own well. You will not be allowed your own septic tank if foul connection available.

TBH
you will not drill a well or build a full wastewater system for less.
And you have to service them forever.
I recently spent 8k upgrading wastewater to a raised bed system. Be delighted to pay 3k to Irish water instead

JoeA3

Wildly Boaring wrote: »

Rate is per service so doubles for foul.
Sure it's about 7 all in for both.

That’s right yeah. In my case I’ll have my own septic tank / treatment plant so only require the water. I’d imagine this is the most common case for rural one off houses.

Wildly Boaring

"From the 1 April 2019 the Connection Charging Policy will take effect with the cost per single domestic unit for a standard connection being €2,272 for Water and €3,929 Wastewater (Connection Infrastructure up to 10 metres)."

looksee

If there is a supply going past your property that is what it will cost. If they have to dig on public road then the price will shoot up. You do a very preliminary query with Irish Water asking if the connection is feasible.

Wildly Boaring

Yep says up to 10m

Price particularly for sewer would raise considerable for longer distances.

Far easier lay watermain than sewer

JoeA3

Jake5991 wrote: »

Thanks well this sounds like an absolute nightmare . So if you want to spend say 260 k on building a house its gonna cost min an extra 50 k on everything else .
So all in all it seems as though its better to buy house for the same money than build .

It all really depends on your expectations and budget. You're in a good position from the off - a site gifted to you. That puts you in a good position with banks, you can borrow 100% of the build cost (the site is your deposit).

What kind of house in Kildare will you buy for 260-300k? I'd imagine not very much in the current climate. And then when you've bought it, what will you want/need to spend on it to bring it up to your own tastes / modern standards?

furryhead

Jake5991 wrote:

Ok thanks for that i really didnt think there was going to be a problem with it because there has been housea going up all around us and they are not even from the area and our land has been in our family for generations .

Jake5991 wrote:

Did you have keep paying large amounts of money each time you applied for planning permission?

Jake5991 wrote:

And what are the reason they turned you down just out of curiosity ?

Sorry for delay. You may have no problem with it but my own experience of the whole thing is not positive. Mainly environmental reasons were why we were refused. Yeah it costs extra each time depending on what you need to do to rectify issues but there is still no guarantee.

Jake5991

furryhead wrote: »

Sorry for delay. You may have no problem with it but my own experience of the whole thing is not positive. Mainly environmental reasons were why we were refused. Yeah it costs extra each time depending on what you need to do to rectify issues but there is still no guarantee.

Ok well i still think we would build a better house for the same price as building but my fiance doesn't want to do it because of all the stress involved. Plus we are trying to have a family and if she has to leave work on maternity leave she is afraid the banks wont release money to us because they release it in stages and then it will a lot longer .