Replumb 3/4 bed house

Chopper2

Out boiler just packed in so we got a plumber in for a quote. He advised us to change controls aswell. After looking around the house he suggested we replumb the whole system as the pipes are a different variety, copper, grey plastic pipe , black hydradale, & replace 9 rads. House is 1200sq ft , bathroom upstairs & shower room downstairs. built almost 30 years ago.
We haven't decided what to do yet, our main concern is how much it will cost?

Lewis_Benson

Chopper2 wrote: »

Out boiler just packed in so we got a plumber in for a quote. He advised us to change controls aswell. After looking around the house he suggested we replumb the whole system as the pipes are a different variety, copper, grey plastic pipe , black hydradale, & replace 9 rads. House is 1200sq ft , bathroom upstairs & shower room downstairs. built almost 30 years ago.
We haven't decided what to do yet, our main concern is how much it will cost?

What's the question?

How much was the quote the plumber provided?

Chopper2

Q = how much would it cost in total?

No quote received yet.

K.Flyer

Get a few different recommended reputable contractors in to have a look at it.
30 years old, its not really that old unless its a bad installation.
Grey pipework on the heating system suggests Acorn pipe, certainly not my first choice, but what did he propose replacing it all with.

Chopper2

Just to correct myself (predictive text) I meant gas boiler NOT out boiler.
I was told gas boilers have a life span of 15-20 years.
Yes acorn pipe was mentioned, like yourself he's not a fan of it. I'm assuming he's going to put in all copper piping because he wants to call back again to pull some floor boards to see what's feeding the rads from the plastic piping that hold the valves.
I took off all rads myself & it's not copper

dar_cool

Got a quote last year for similar and it was 8500 including new oil boiler,controls and replumb. Didn't have the money so went with just new boiler and controls.

Chopper2

dar_cool wrote: »

Got a quote last year for similar and it was 8500 including new oil boiler,controls and replumb. Didn't have the money so went with just new boiler and controls.

Thanks, I know a new gas boiler can cost between 2-3 grand depending on make, model & warranty. So 5-6 thousand sounds realistic.

GreeBo

Chopper2 wrote: »

Just to correct myself (predictive text) I meant gas boiler NOT out boiler.
I was told gas boilers have a life span of 15-20 years.
Yes acorn pipe was mentioned, like yourself he's not a fan of it. I'm assuming he's going to put in all copper piping because he wants to call back again to pull some floor boards to see what's feeding the rads from the plastic piping that hold the valves.
I took off all rads myself & it's not copper

Doing the entire house in copper will be expensive as copper is expensive to buy.
5.5M of 1" copper is €43
6M of 1" Pex is €26

Now the fittings are more expensive but I'd still go plastic.

K.Flyer

GreeBo wrote: »

Doing the entire house in copper will be expensive as copper is expensive to buy.
5.5M of 1" copper is €43
6M of 1" Pex is €26

Now the fittings are more expensive but I'd still go plastic.

If not in copper, then go with Multilayer Pipe.
When its done properly its a lifetime job.

Chopper2

K.Flyer wrote: »

If not in copper, then go with Multilayer Pipe.
When its done properly its a lifetime job.

Rang for a price of 5m copper pipe €18
5m plastic pipe €7
Thanks for the input
Anymore suggestions welcome

Dtp1979

Modern copper is crap tbh. You’d be better off with multilayer or pex. Don’t use the new white acorn fittings as they are dreadful

Chopper2

Just an update, the first plumber gave me a quote of €18,000. Yes you are reading it correctly €18,000. Replace all pipe work for rads, install new rads (9), new cylinder, 3 zone heating, new Bosch boiler replace 2 sink, 2 toilets, 2 showers, trays doors 2 T90 showers, new sink in kitchen, outside tap, replumb all hot & cold feeds.

Chopper2

Chopper2 wrote: »

Just an update, the first plumber gave me a quote of €18,000. Yes you are reading it correctly €18,000. Replace all pipe work for rads, install new rads (9), new cylinder, 3 zone heating, new Bosch boiler replace 2 sink, 2 toilets, 2 showers, trays doors 2 T90 showers, new sink in kitchen, outside tap, replumb all hot & cold feeds.

Second plumber quoted €9000 off the top of he's head. Would take 5 weeks to complete going between jobs.
Waiting on another quote.

GreeBo

I'm waiting on a similar quote so will let you know what I get

Dtp1979

Did the first quote include the sanitary ware?

Chopper2

Dtp1979 wrote: »

Did the first quote include the sanitary ware?

Yes but it's all basic 2 toilets 2 sinks 2 shower trays 2 showers

K.Flyer

Chopper2 wrote: »

Just an update, the first plumber gave me a quote of €18,000. Yes you are reading it correctly €18,000. Replace all pipe work for rads, install new rads (9), new cylinder, 3 zone heating, new Bosch boiler replace 2 sink, 2 toilets, 2 showers, trays doors 2 T90 showers, new sink in kitchen, outside tap, replumb all hot & cold feeds.

Apart from the complete new heating system / hot water overhaul, you are also getting two bathrooms fully re-plumbed and refitted with new shower enclosures, with all the sanitary ware showers etc included.

Does that include tiling / finishing bathrooms ?

Is electrical work for showers included?

Are the hot and cold pipes throughout the house being replaced as well?

Are there concrete floors / walls to be cut out for pipework?

Is the house being lived in while work is going on?

Chopper2

K.Flyer wrote: »

Apart from the complete new heating system / hot water overhaul, you are also getting two bathrooms fully re-plumbed and refitted with new shower enclosures, with all the sanitary ware showers etc included.

Does that include tiling / finishing bathrooms ?

Is electrical work for showers included?

Are the hot and cold pipes throughout the house being replaced as well?

Are there concrete floors / walls to be cut out for pipework?

Is the house being lived in while work is going on?

I'm getting my own tiler & electrician.
Hot & cold pipes replaced. I have the walls chased. The concrete floors will have to be dug.
House is vacant while until all work is done.
Are you a plumber?

Dtp1979

Chopper2 wrote: »

I'm getting my own tiler & electrician.
Hot & cold pipes replaced. I have the walls chased. The concrete floors will have to be dug.
House is vacant while until all work is done.
Are you a plumber?

He is .
First price is a bit high alright.
Second price is way too low. They must be cutting serious corners tbh

GreeBo

Mine just came in at 19K inc vat
9 double rads
2 towel rails
23 TRVs
Magna cleaning valve
32KW Potterton Myson boiler
3 zone heating circuit.

I need to sit down.

K.Flyer

GreeBo wrote: »

Mine just came in at 19K inc vat
9 double rads
2 towel rails
23 TRVs
Magna cleaning valve
32KW Potterton Myson boiler
3 zone heating circuit.

I need to sit down.

:eek:

Get more quotes in.

K.Flyer

Chopper2 wrote: »

I'm getting my own tiler & electrician.
Hot & cold pipes replaced. I have the walls chased. The concrete floors will have to be dug.
House is vacant while until all work is done.
Are you a plumber?

I am, based in Dublin.

As DTP says, first price is a bit on high side but sanitary ware, showers trays and doors etc can greatly vary in price which can affect the end quote.
As for 9k for all of that, I appreciate it was a off the top of his head, but I just can't see how he can do all of that correctly for close to it.

GreeBo

K.Flyer wrote: »

:eek:

Get more quotes in.

Was certainly a lot more than I was expecting tbh.

Looks like I'm taking up floorboards and running the pipes myself....again!

K.Flyer

GreeBo wrote: »

Was certainly a lot more than I was expecting tbh.

Looks like I'm taking up floorboards and running the pipes myself....again!

I'm sure you could get a reasonable quote that includes taking up flooring.

Dtp1979

GreeBo wrote: »

Mine just came in at 19K inc vat
9 double rads
2 towel rails
23 TRVs
Magna cleaning valve
32KW Potterton Myson boiler
3 zone heating circuit.

I need to sit down.

Why is there 23 trvs when there’s only 9 rads?

Chopper2

Dtp1979 wrote: »

Why is there 23 trvs when there’s only 9 rads?

The first quote I got "off the top of he's head" was 18 grand, he came back a few days later & I told him I got another quick quote of 9, he then said he came over to view it again & was going to say he'd do it for 15. I'm still waiting for him to get back to me with a breakdown & an improved final quote but at this stage I can't see me letting him do it.

K.Flyer

Dtp1979 wrote: »

Why is there 23 trvs when there’s only 9 rads?

9 new radiators, plus 14 existing radiators.
Earlier I was going to question the 32kw boiler with only nine rads, but then saw 23 trvs (rads), plus the two towel rails, h.w. etc.

GreeBo

K.Flyer wrote: »

9 new radiators, plus 14 existing radiators.
Earlier I was going to question the 32kw boiler with only nine rads, but then saw 23 trvs (rads), plus the two towel rails, h.w. etc.

Actually there are only the 9 rads + 2 towel rails.

So im assuming its 11 x 2 for trv and lsv and then a typo...but that price seems of the wall

K.Flyer

GreeBo wrote: »

Actually there are only the 9 rads + 2 towel rails.

So im assuming its 11 x 2 for trv and lsv and then a typo...but that price seems of the wall

Sorry, slightly confused here.
Have you a total of 9 rads plus 2 towel rails on your heating system?
If that's right, then 32 kw is way to big for that system.

GreeBo

Scratch that, quote says 23 sets of trvs so no idea who I'm buying them for!

GreeBo

K.Flyer wrote: »

Sorry, slightly confused here.
Have you a total of 9 rads plus 2 towel rails on your heating system?
If that's right, then 32 kw is way to big for that system.

Yeah 11 in total but most are large doubles...its a 210m2 detached house

K.Flyer

GreeBo wrote: »

Yeah 11 in total but most are large doubles...its a 210m2 detached house

Not your average semi so

Dtp1979

Still, 32kw seems way too big

GreeBo

Dtp1979 wrote: »

Still, 32kw seems way too big

I did think it was a little large alright....I suspect they are replacing like with like as the current boiler is on the large side...but the rads are 50 years old so no very efficient.

But an overpriced boiler is inefficient so not sure why he would over spec it....though since its a combi he probably wants to ensure good hot water pressure on demand?

Dtp1979

GreeBo wrote: »

I did think it was a little large alright....I suspect they are replacing like with like as the current boiler is on the large side...but the rads are 50 years old so no very efficient.

But an overpriced boiler is inefficient so not sure why he would over spec it....though since its a combi he probably wants to ensure good hot water pressure on demand?

Ah I missed the combi part, sorry. Does the price include a water pressure pump too? How many hot water draw off points do you have?

GreeBo

Dtp1979 wrote: »

Ah I missed the combi part, sorry. Does the price include a water pressure pump too? How many hot water draw off points do you have?

Pump wasnt called out explicitly but he was talking about mains pressure so assuming there isnt one (which I didnt think was allowed in Irish Regs?)

6 hot water points (1 bath/shower as other is power shower)

Dtp1979

GreeBo wrote: »

Pump wasnt called out explicitly but he was talking about mains pressure so assuming there isnt one (which I didnt think was allowed in Irish Regs?)

6 hot water points (1 bath/shower as other is power shower)

What do you mean by power shower? As in the shower heats it own water?

GreeBo

Dtp1979 wrote: »

What do you mean by power shower? As in the shower heats it own water?

Yeah, sorry meant electric (Triton)

Dtp1979

GreeBo wrote: »

Yeah, sorry meant electric (Triton)

In my opinion, fitting a triton or similar when you have a combi with 3-4 bar pressure behind it, is a waste of a good shower.
Apart from that, I think 6 hot water draw off points is stretching it too far, especially if you’re relying on mains pressure

GreeBo

Dtp1979 wrote: »

In my opinion, fitting a triton or similar when you have a combi with 3-4 bar pressure behind it, is a waste of a good shower.
Apart from that, I think 6 hot water draw off points is stretching it too far, especially if you’re relying on mains pressure

The triton is already installed so I dont see the point in removing it?

The 6 points will never be in use together as there are only 4 in the house, at best it would be 2 or 3 in a random scenario. (they include DS toilet, utility sink, kitchen sink, main bathroom, ensuite sink)

The alternative would be a regular (or keep the existing) boiler and and large insulated tank (there is a small one in the hotpress already) .
If going this way I would install the new cylinder beside the boiler in the utility room and fit a pump there for a fully pressurised system.

Dtp1979

GreeBo wrote: »

The triton is already installed so I dont see the point in removing it?

The 6 points will never be in use together as there are only 4 in the house, at best it would be 2 or 3 in a random scenario. (they include DS toilet, utility sink, kitchen sink, main bathroom, ensuite sink)

The alternative would be a regular (or keep the existing) boiler and and large insulated tank (there is a small one in the hotpress already) .
If going this way I would install the new cylinder beside the boiler in the utility room and fit a pump there for a fully pressurised system.

I’d go with the pressurised system. I only suggested removing the triton as a proper pressurised shower is a much better showering experience

Chopper2

Dtp1979 wrote: »

I’d go with the pressurised system. I only suggested removing the triton as a proper pressurised shower is a much better showering experience

I'm still in the process of getting quotes, I have asked for Triton shower in bathroom instead of bath & in the shower room downstairs.
What do you mean by pressurised system, as in coming from the mains, not electric?

GreeBo

Dtp1979 wrote: »

I’d go with the pressurised system. I only suggested removing the triton as a proper pressurised shower is a much better showering experience

Ah yeah there is no comparison, the only benefit right now is that we have showers on demand since its a single zone house and we dont have the heat on in summer. I expect to have heat on 24x7 in winter until we get the EWI done!

Chopper2 wrote: »

I'm still in the process of getting quotes, I have asked for Triton shower in bathroom instead of bath & in the shower room downstairs.
What do you mean by pressurised system, as in coming from the mains, not electric?

No, there is a separate pump either on the flow from the cold water tank (in which case everything other that kitchen sink cold is pressurized) or you have have a hot & cold pump specifically for the shower/bathroom.

I have done both and preferred to have the whole house pumped.

Markcheese

Does the house need to be gutted at the moment? You just want your boiler fixed yeah? And a bit of extra control would be nice..
So just change the boiler and put in for the grant for better controls..
And then plan what you're gonna really need, airtightness and insulation, you mightn't need to repipe and replumb everything anyway..

(that said if your system is leaky and inefficient it mightn't be a bad idea)

GreeBo

Markcheese wrote: »

Does the house need to be gutted at the moment? You just want your boiler fixed yeah? And a bit of extra control would be nice..
So just change the boiler and put in for the grant for better controls..
And then plan what you're gonna really need, airtightness and insulation, you mightn't need to repipe and replumb everything anyway..

(that said if your system is leaky and inefficient it mightn't be a bad idea)

If thats addressed to me then I need to get the house rewired anyway and the heating is all gunbarrel and 50 year old inefficient rads so hoping to "save" money by doing it all in one go.

Markcheese

GreeBo wrote: »

If thats addressed to me then I need to get the house rewired anyway and the heating is all gunbarrel and 50 year old inefficient rads so hoping to "save" money by doing it all in one go.

Modern rads are no more efficient than older rads (in general), if the piping and rads are causing ongoing probs then, spend the money and change them, )

GreeBo

Markcheese wrote: »

Modern rads are no more efficient than older rads (in general), if the piping and rads are causing ongoing probs then, spend the money and change them, )

The current rads don't even have fins, they are basically lumps of steel filled with water... so if be surprised if newer ones weren't better.

The piping is the real issue, its heavily corroded in several places and imo its s matter of time before i get leaks., there are already a few weeping that i don't want to touch one case of catastrophic failure.

The boiler itself appears ok, so I'm probably going to get a new quote for installing a pressurised cylinder, pump and the rads and forget about a combi.

Chopper2

We have still to decide who or what to go with.
Go with as in combi or other?
The job will include a total replumb
New boiler
Hot & cold feeds, shower room downstairs,
Bathroom replaced with shower room upstairs, fitted furniture
3 zone system.
Combi pressurised system is being suggested to us, remove all tanks/cylinder.
Is this a good choice?

K.Flyer

Chopper2 wrote: »

We have still to decide who or what to go with.
Go with as in combi or other?
The job will include a total replumb
New boiler
Hot & cold feeds, shower room downstairs,
Bathroom replaced with shower room upstairs, fitted furniture
3 zone system.
Combi pressurised system is being suggested to us, remove all tanks/cylinder.
Is this a good choice?

Apart from building regulations which doesn't allow for direct connection of heating systems to the mains water supply, I personally don't advocate it as you have absolutely no back supply up in the event of water outages.
In your earlier post you said two T.90s, is this still the plan, or are you going for two shower valves fed off the combi.

Chopper2

K.Flyer wrote: »

Apart from building regulations which doesn't allow for direct connection of heating systems to the mains water supply, I personally don't advocate it as you have absolutely no back supply up in the event of water outages.
In your earlier post you said two T.90s, is this still the plan, or are you going for two shower valves fed off the combi.

In the event of water outage we would only have backup supply of water in the tank,
Yes 2 shower valves fed off supply.
Is this combi system just a handy way/less work for plumber?

K.Flyer

Chopper2 wrote: »

In the event of water outage we would only have backup supply of water in the tank,
Yes 2 shower valves fed off supply.
Is this combi system just a handy way/less work for plumber?

It is a lot less work, no storage tanks, no cylinder or the pipework.
What are the chances of both showers being used at the same time?