Parents thoughts on this insurance payout?

Megwepz

Just saw this and have seen so many other stories about insurance payouts. Would be interested to hear parents view on this....would you pursue this matter as this child's parents did?

https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/courts/boy-2-who-fractured-arm-after-colliding-with-child-on-slide-awarded-40000-38274353.html

Megwepz

Typo in the title and now I can't edit...apologies to any other grammar and spelling police out there!

Mod Edit: Typo fixed

MightyMunster

Another ridiculous award. No wonder businesses are closing. Judges are to blame. All the fake claimants should be tried for fraud and jailed. Might sort it out eventually.

tickingclock

I thinks it's wrong children climb up slides the whole time. I think where do you draw the line with all the slides in public playgrounds also.

beauf

I would have said no all my life till now.

But I'm no longer so sure...

The_Honeybadger

Crazy. I suppose if there is negligence on behalf of the childcare provider there has to be consequences but €40k!!

Imo the injured party (parents in this case) should be paid medical expenses and loss of earnings for time off work etc but these bumper payouts for relatively minor injuries are encouraging the claim culture and having a detrimental effect on businesses.

MightyMunster

40k for a slide, 60k for a swing. Where does it end.

shesty

Just read that story, shocking.The most likely result of that is that Giraffe will remove slides.We have to stop wrapping our kids in cotton wool and blaming other people all the time.Are they going to sue when he gets bigger and breaks his collarbone playing underage soccer or falls and gets a cut in the school yard??Every other child suffers because of it, the result is that play equipment is taken away, or they aren't allowed run or just be children.
Kids climb up slides.If I had a euro for every time I stopped my kids climbing up slides, I'd be a rich woman!!

And I always wonder who puts the idea of suing into people's heads?What sort of thought process do you have to have to think the right thing to do it exploit incidents like that to get a payout?It's not like there were hospital bills to cover.

Hoboo

I don't agree with the offer, think it's OTT. But that's up to the company. They have their reasons, and hiding their poor training policies and health and safety updates could be just some.

I would ask why in a supervised environment was he allowed to do that? If I saw a 2 year old walking up a slide the wrong way with other kids at the top I'd quickly recognise the danger.

The creche is negligent in every way. No mention of an investigation of their training policies which would concern me the most.

TheValeyard

Absolutely stupid decision by the judge. And shame on the parents for taking the action against the creche.

Hoboo

TheValeyard wrote: »

Absolutely stupid decision by the judge. And shame on the parents for taking the action against the creche.

The judge didn't make a decision. The company made a settlement. Court just approved it.

s7ryf3925pivug

Insufficient supervision.
No idea whether I'd pursue it but I would blame the creche.

The_Honeybadger

Laylah Spoiled Riverside wrote: »

Insufficient supervision.
No idea whether I'd pursue it but I would blame the creche.

Almost certainly they are partly to blame but it’s the value of the payout that i would be querying.

My child broke their ankle in crèche aged nearly four after falling off a swing. The manager showed me the cctv and there was a staff member very near who was watching the kids playing but they were attending to another child at the time. I agreed with the manager that they would cover all the medical expenses and they did, even though it only amounted to the A & E charge. I am totally against the claim culture but if the staff member had been fluting around on their phone or something I’m not sure I’d have been so reasonable, it’s case by case I guess.

Either way I think € 40k is completely crazy for a relatively minor injury and it is no wonder we have these kinds of cases in the paper week after week. I’m not an expert on the insurance industry but I work with small businesses day in, day out and see first hand the difficulties that insurance is causing them. Childrens play centres ironically are becoming almost uninsurable. Until judges stop awarding crazy sums in court and there are severe penalties for fraudulent claims you will see settlements like the above, and we are all paying for it.

cruizer101

40k is absolutely crazy for this, why isn't is just the medical expenses that are covered.
I would think the insurance company are partly to blame for this as they just offer the amount to try and avoid a full court case in the knowledge that they can just increase the premiums to pass on the cost.

From the parents point of view it is bad also, why didn't they just look to cover medical expenses, greed.

We're going to end up with creches where the playground consists of a padded box ffs.

A2LUE42

The_Honeybadger wrote: »

Almost certainly they are partly to blame but it’s the value of the payout that i would be querying.

My child broke their ankle in crèche aged nearly four after falling off a swing. The manager showed me the cctv and there was a staff member very near who was watching the kids playing but they were attending to another child at the time. I agreed with the manager that they would cover all the medical expenses and they did, even though it only amounted to the A & E charge. I am totally against the claim culture but if the staff member had been fluting around on their phone or something I’m not sure I’d have been so reasonable, it’s case by case I guess.

Either way I think € 40k is completely crazy for a relatively minor injury and it is no wonder we have these kinds of cases in the paper week after week. I’m not an expert on the insurance industry but I work with small businesses day in, day out and see first hand the difficulties that insurance is causing them. Childrens play centres ironically are becoming almost uninsurable. Until judges stop awarding crazy sums in court and there are severe penalties for fraudulent claims you will see settlements like the above, and we are all paying for it.

Had a similar experience. where my 3 year old and his best friend were hugging/messing and fell over in the creche and he fractured his elbow. The other childs parents were in a worse state than we were. We didn't claim or anything like that. We viewed it as something that could just as easily have happened at home and a part of growing up. We stopped using the creche within the year, but that was due to other issues with the way they were treating their staff and children when a new manager was appointed.

uck51js9zml2yt

TheValeyard wrote: »

Absolutely stupid decision by the judge. And shame on the parents for taking the action against the creche.

The judge just approved the offer by giraffes insurance.

It's was a childminding facility. It should have been supervised

Offer was OTT but that's the company's fault.

JustMe,K

Between this and 85k for being stupid enough to carry a cardboard cup of hot tea under an arm, I despair of our claim culture.

I absolutely would not have gone after the creche in this instance for compo, I would have been happy with medical expenses and out of pocket/ time off work expenses covered. My daughter was at an activity years ago, broke her leg and all expenses were covered on our health insurance, I ran into all sorts of people at the hospital telling me how much it was worth in a compensation claim, but it was the last thing on my mind.

Maybe those of us who don't immediately jump to claim are the bigger fools.

ted1

It’s daft. Kids have accidents and break bones all the time. It’s part of being a kid.

ted1

Kenna Rapid Treble wrote: »

The judge just approved the offer by giraffes insurance.

It's was a childminding facility. It should have been supervised

Offer was OTT but that's the company's fault.

Sorry kids climb up slides all the tine it’s part of being a kid and playing. Im sure they were supervised.

What way would you have kids play. In bubble wrap and isolation. Surrounded ny padded walls and floors ?

Hannibal_Smith

If my kid fractured his arm in creche I'd think pretty seriously about suing.

?Cee?view

Megwepz wrote: »

Typo in the title and now I can't edit...apologies to any other grammar and spelling police out there!

Mod Edit: Typo fixed

It's still got a typo

Grammar Police

cruizer101

kcdiom wrote: »

Maybe those of us who don't immediately jump to claim are the bigger fools.

This is a big part of it, as honest as I like to think I am I'd be lying if I said in the same situation I wouldn't be tempted. I think I would do the right thing but imagine if you were a family who was financially struggling anyway, very easy to see how you could decide feck it everyone else is doing it.

This is why the government needs to step up and completely overhaul how cases like this are dealt with, people can't be trusted to be genuine and the courts seem happy to approve large payouts meaning insurance will offer it without dispute and so pass on the expense to everyone.

ted1

Laylah Spoiled Riverside wrote: »

Insufficient supervision.
No idea whether I'd pursue it but I would blame the creche.

These things happen in a matter of seconds, unless you put them on a short leash no amount of supervision would prevent this

Wheety

It's crazy. I broke my collarbone as a child. My parents never would have thought of suing. I feel sorry for kids, pretty soon they won't be allowed to have fun. Boys like climbing. I've climbed up a slide plenty of times. If I got injured (as a child) doing it, it would just be seen as hi-jinks. It's mad that everyone's first thought is that there must be someone to blame.

TheValeyard

Kenna Rapid Treble wrote: »

The judge just approved the offer by giraffes insurance.

It's was a childminding facility. It should have been supervised

Offer was OTT but that's the company's fault.

Kids have accidents even when supervised. It's a part of life. Hate to think of the knock on effects this will have on other creches.

Wheety

Hannibal_Smith wrote: »

If my kid fractured his arm in creche I'd think pretty seriously about suing.

But what if it happened in a public playground with you there? Sue the council?

TheValeyard

Wheety wrote: »

It's crazy. I broke my collarbone as a child. My parents never would have thought of suing. I feel sorry for kids, pretty soon they won't be allowed to have fun. Boys like climbing. I've climbed up a slide plenty of times. If I got injured (as a child) doing it, it would just be seen as hi-jinks. It's mad that everyone's first thought is that there must be someone to blame.

I got stitches, scars, bandages, war wounds, etc from when j was a young kid. All from playing with mates and having the craic. It would never have entered my parents mind to sue somebody for me acting the idiot.

DavyD_83

That is ridiculous in my opinion.
Apart from anything else, the injured kid was the one climbing the slide (ie. in the wrong), although this might not matter from legal perspective, it would make a huge difference to me morally.

In all these cases, if people limited their claim to actual costs incurred (medical expenses and possibly any lost earnings as mentioned above) I don't have any real issue.
But any costs for 'trauma' etc are nonsense to me.

If myself or kids were injured in any way, the last thing I would think is "can I make money out of this?", but in some cases, I can see that I could think " can I get somebody to help with the cost of this?" if there was going to be a massive bill attached to any required care.

Odyssey 2005

ted1 wrote: »

These things happen in a matter of seconds, unless you put them on a short leash no amount of supervision would prevent this

If you do that you would be accused of running a concentration camp.!

I'd love to know how much this will actually cost the creche. Their insurance excess etc.

BASHIR

No wonder Childcare is so expensive.

tickingclock

I'd be interested in do Giraffe creches still have slides?

BarryD2

beauf wrote: »

I would have said no all my life till now.

But I'm no longer so sure...

Maybe if all the parents cash in and the creche fees rise appropriately, then it becomes a zero sum game with the legal boyos rolling in the clover. Seems to be where we're headed.

Re OP, no we wouldn't have sued. And would cast a cold eye on these plaintiffs.

Wheety

It has really become like America. When will we see the ads on tv "Where there's blame, there's a claim". Even when there's no blame, there still seems to be a claim.

tipptom

What was the supervision in this case?
Its just not feasible for any small business to have an employee standing at the bottom of every playground item.

Why would the insurance company settle for so much money for a fracture that will be over and forgotten about in a couple of months and how much were they e sueing for in the first place to beat them down to 41k.
Did the family of the child have a medical card or was it done privately?

I think insurance companies need to be questioned on not contesting theses bumper pay outs as its a red rag for anybody to get stuck in for as much as possible.
I think it suits the insurance industry that theses cases are highlighted because they just transfer the pay outs on to customers premiums anyway and they can justify hiking premiums with these cases and will eventually start taking down premiums that have being raised by 500% down by 15% and be lauded by government who will also pat themselves on the back.

Cycle trail beside me invested 600k on new trails and bought new bikes cost 2k and upwards and have now closed down after six months after their yearly premium came around where just one case was pending and they cannot get insurance now.

Sunny Dayz

I don't understand why accidents are now leading to sueing.
You can supervise kids as best you can but you can't control them completely and all of the time. You could be supervising just one child and they can still have an accident. How do we know that supervision was inadequate - maybe the child had already been told to get down off the slide. Kids should be allowed to play and explore in playgrounds and IMO the only reason you may possible sue is due to injury from faulty or neglected equipment.


My son fell in school, some nasty cuts, quite a bit of bleeding, a long afternoon spent in A&E and a few stitches. Teachers were all about us, ringing and texting me to make sure he was ok. When I look back now it was in the hope that I wouldn't sue but Christ that wouldn't even occur to me - it was an accident and the cost of A&E, medication and follow up trip to docs were claimed back from the insurance without any fuss.

ted1

tipptom wrote: »

Why would the insurance company settle for so much money for a fracture that will be over and forgotten about in a couple of months and how much were they e sueing for in the first place to beat them down to 41k.

Because legal fees to defend it would cost more

Megwepz

OP here.... Nice the see that the vast majority of parents here believe it to be completely over the top. Honestly, if this happened to my son at that age I wouldn't even dream of pursuing the creche. In my opinion it's all part of the rough and tumble of growing up?

Agree that children should of course be supervised but if the ratio of carers to children is 1:8 or similar then it's just not physically feasible to have eyes on them all at the same time. I would think that covering the cost of medical expenses and maybe my time off work as a result of the injury would be more than enough.

There are plenty of schools around who have implemented a 'no running' policy on the playground... I mean, come on, what the actual flip??? They will shortly have no play equipment either with this sort of compensation being given out.

Stories like this absolutely boil my blood, my childcare centre has had to close this Summer for the first time as a result of the rising expenses, insurance being the main one, which leaves me completely scuppered for childcare this Summer!

Compo culture in this country has me absolutely seething!!!!

Hoboo

No mention of insurance being involved here. Just the company (I think giraffe would cover it themselves rather than risk a hike for their whole business).

Stinks of a cover up though, that amount is way ott. Get it done and dusted and draw the curtains.

s7ryf3925pivug

ted1 wrote: »

These things happen in a matter of seconds, unless you put them on a short leash no amount of supervision would prevent this

Fair enough. It's not like my kid has never managed to hurt himself in my presence. Still warrants making sure there is adequate supervision (as opposed to assuming there is not).

My default reaction would be anger if my kid fractured his arm at a creche or similar. Doubt I'd actually pursue legal proceedings.

Injury payouts are much greater in Ireland than other countries I believe.

The_Honeybadger

Hoboo wrote: »

No mention of insurance being involved here. Just the company (I think giraffe would cover it themselves rather than risk a hike for their whole business).

Stinks of a cover up though, that amount is way ott. Get it done and dusted and draw the curtains.

I would imagine it was their underwriter who came to the settlement? Giraffe would be required to report such an incident.

shesty

Wheety wrote: »

It has really become like America. When will we see the ads on tv "Where there's blame, there's a claim". Even when there's no blame, there still seems to be a claim.

We do see these ads!!!They don't phrase it like that, but they do the "if you have had an accident" style thing.It's desperate.

Hannibal_Smith

Wheety wrote: »

But what if it happened in a public playground with you there? Sue the council?

What if what if what if. If I was there and my child fell that's a different story. If I was paying the creche to look after him and he fractured his arm, I would strongly think about it.

jlm29

Hannibal_Smith wrote: »

What if what if what if. If I was there and my child fell that's a different story. If I was paying the creche to look after him and he fractured his arm, I would strongly think about it.

What would suing achieve? Price hikes? Increased insurance for all? Or does money somehow make bones heal faster and better?

Hannibal_Smith

jlm29 wrote: »

What would suing achieve? Price hikes? Increased insurance for all? Or does money somehow make bones heal faster and better?

The purpose of suing is to seek compensation for damage or injury. If I was paying a creche to mind my kid and they fractured their arm, I wouldn't pat them on the head and thank them.

Not sure what your last sentence is about tbh

jlm29

Hannibal_Smith wrote: »

The purpose of suing is to seek compensation for damage or injury. If I was paying a creche to mind my kid and they fractured their arm, I wouldn't pat them on the head and thank them.

Not sure what your last sentence is about tbh

I just don’t understand how it achieves anything, except to be detrimental to society in general, and probably the parent on a personal level. But then, that might be just how I am.
Nobody is suggesting patting anybody on the head or thanking them, but I think there needs to be some understanding that sometimes things just happen, through no fault of anyone’s, just circumstance

Hannibal_Smith

jlm29 wrote: »

I just don’t understand how it achieves anything, except to be detrimental to society in general, and probably the parent on a personal level. But then, that might be just how I am.
Nobody is suggesting patting anybody on the head or thanking them, but I think there needs to be some understanding that sometimes things just happen, through no fault of anyone’s, just circumstance

You should go down to the Four Courts with that

We've had accidents inside creche outside creche, in side school and outside school. Some required stitches some didn't and one was a fracture. No suing on any of them, they were all accidents.

But if my kid was in a creche and fractured a bone? That's x rays hospital visits, time off work. I'm clearly going against the grain here, but that's a bit more serious to me than just one of things.

Blaizes

Well I’m of the opinion that the claims culture is insane here. I can understand claims against hospitals where negligence results in a life changing condition for a baby who will need on going life care. But small stuff no way the medical bill should be covered no more.

This madness will close businesses with soaring insurance costs or else businesses have to pass the cost onto customers in increased fees.Why people have this claims mentality is beyond me. Where a claim is made on behalf of a child the money should be put in trust till the child reaches 21. Maybe that would help to stop this madness.

I think I have missed a golden opportunity here. With 5 kids of which 4 are boys, there have been no end of knocks, bumps, cuts, visits to A&E from schools, creche, playgrounds both public and private etc.
I probably could have sued on to many occasions and would be a millionaire by now. But guess what, when you have a child, you have to expect them to have accidents, to get hurt, to do stupid things that kids like to do which ends up with them getting hurt.
It's rarely negligence by schools or creches or when your kids are at a friends house. Even when looking after my own kids, they have fallen off slides, tripped on stones, got bounced on in the trampoline etc, so I have sympathy for other parents, teachers etc who can't really have their eyes permanently on every child. Turn away for a minute or get distracted and suddenly little johnny has crashed into little Sarah and it's all tears and even a couple of bruises.
So many people just see an easy way to make cash and it's encouraged by our judicial system and culture. Only today, I managed to burn the roof of my mouth when I stuffed a mouthful of cottage pie in my mouth without checking how hot it was first at work. I'll be more careful next time and it's a lesson learned. I don't feel the need to call a firm of solicitors.
Rant over!

Hannibal_Smith

Blaizes wrote: »

Well I’m of the opinion that the claims culture is insane here. I can understand claims against hospitals where negligence results in a life changing condition for a baby who will need on going life care. But small stuff no way the medical bill should be covered no more.

This madness will close businesses with soaring insurance costs or else businesses have to pass the cost onto customers in increased fees.Why people have this claims mentality is beyond me. Where a claim is made on behalf of a child the money should be put in trust till the child reaches 21. Maybe that would help to stop this madness.

I think the money is lodged into the court until they're 18?

Gatling

Wheety wrote: »

But what if it happened in a public playground with you there? Sue the council?

Many people do

NIMAN

I would have to answer 'no', as we have all had knocks, bumps, broken bones etc over the years and our parents never thought of suing, cos these things happen.

Unfortunately the world has changed, we now see people who think there is always someone to blame, and that there is money to be got very easily.

I accept a fractured wrist to a toddler is bad, and it did require surgery, but the '2 small pale scars' comment was a bit trivial. I suppose everything has to be added to get as much money as possible.

Anyway, I am trying to look at it from another angle. The likes of the 80k awarded for the 14 yr old getting burned by coffee, you can kinda see why people go for the easy money. Think of that girl if she was to go to Uni in 4 years time. That is very costly. Perhaps her parents think "that 80k will put her through her degree with no debt on the other side".

If that was their thinking, then maybe more of us might consider it?

But you can see why play parks, creches etc will simply just either close to tell kids they can't play in future. They can't afford to have 2 toddlers run into each other.