What constitutes "reasonable" overtime?

mistermaster

As the title says…what constitutes “reasonable” overtime?

My wife was promoted in her work about six months ago, from what was basically a junior management position to a middle management one. Ever since, she’s been doing what I consider an extraordinary number of extra hours.

Her basic working day is 9 a.m. to 5.30 p.m. and before promotion that was basically what she did, apart from the odd day where she might stay back for 20 minutes or half an hour to get something finished, like many people do.

But now she’s often in the office by 8 a.m. “to try get ahead for the day”, stays back at least half an hour or maybe an hour most evenings, and then brings the laptop home and spends maybe another half hour or hour each night doing e-mails and the like.

Altogether, I reckon she’s doing an average extra seven to eight hours in the office each week, and maybe three to four hours on the computer at home at night. Basically the same as an extra day or day and a half each week – all unpaid overtime and no opportunity for time in lieu either.

When I ask her about it, she says her new contract says she has to do “reasonable” overtime, and also that she’s on a year probation in the position and doesn’t want to make an issue of things. I can understand her up to a point but I don’t think what she’s doing is “reasonable” and I’d also wonder if doing all that now means she’ll be doing it forever, even after her probation.

I also ask her to think about how she's basically doing an extra day a week (or more) for no extra pay. If they said to her that she had to stick to regular office hours Monday to Friday but then go in every Saturday too, for no extra pay, she'd say "no way". But she does it this way instead.

FWIW, she did get a decent pay rise when she was promoted, but if you factor in the extra hours she's doing now, she's probably coming out with less money per hour than she was then.

Curious what other people think or what other people’s experiences of “reasonable” unpaid overtime might be?

B_ecke_r

if she's doing that much hours it's either 2 things

she's not able for the job

or it's a 2 person job..

decent pay rise or not she's basically given up all her spare time.

OMM 0000

She's working too hard.

I bet you no one has asked her to work this hard, or expects her to work this hard.

Mrs OBumble

She's still learning the job. The extra hours aren't unreasonable, especially this early into it. If she's still doing those hours in 12 months time, that's an issue though.

And overall, if she wants to climb the management ladder, you'll need to leave the clock-watchef mentality behind. It's career-limiting.

OMM 0000

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

And overall, if she wants to climb the management ladder, you'll need to leave the clock-watchef mentality behind. It's career-limiting.

This is spot on.

The managers I know - the more senior they get, the more they work.

I know a woman who is one of the senior people in a bank, and she never stops working. Even on her holiday she works 12+ hours a day.

dashoonage

Its the accepted norm now at management level, I always get emails from my manager sent late at night or the weekends.

dashoonage

dashoonage wrote: »

Its the accepted norm now at management level, I always get emails from my manager sent late at night or the weekends.

I frequently get emails after midnight from my manager. I responded one night and she replied right away so I know it wasn't scheduled. Mad stuff.

OP, I would consider that to be unacceptable but then I've no interest in ever being in a job like that. Is it putting a toll on her and the relationship? Have to decide of it's worth the extra money, and what others deem acceptable isn't relevant to yourselves.

charlietheminxx

I disagree with some of the above - a middle management position is not worth compromising your work-life balance to such a significant extent. If you're running your own business and you're passionate about it, then working all the hours under the sun is different, but really constantly doing heaps of OT is not healthy for anyone. Does your wife have any hobbies? Is she maintaining her social life ok?

dashoonage

Deleted User wrote: »

I frequently get emails after midnight from my manager. I responded one night and she replied right away so I know it wasn't scheduled. Mad stuff.

OP, I would consider that to be unacceptable but then I've no interest in ever being in a job like that. Is it putting a toll on her and the relationship? Have to decide of it's worth the extra money, and what others deem acceptable isn't relevant to yourselves.

I used to reply. Then I stopped.....and guess what.....the world kept spinning.

OMM 0000

I think there's nothing wrong with working strange hours if you like your work and don't really consider it work.

But if you're having to work long hours due to politics or in an effort to protect yourself, well that's toxic.

dashoonage

dashoonage wrote: »

I used to reply. Then I stopped.....and guess what.....the world kept spinning.

I was actually drunk. I'd never usually reply. I only put effort like that into my business.

Wabbit Ears

ironically a lot of managers can be very good at managing other peoples time but absolutely suck at managing their own. There is a grace period of learning the ropes but if she doesn't manage her own time then her peers will start expecting her to always be available during these times.

dennyk

To me, "reasonable" overtime would mean occasional; if from time to time there's an unusually busy day/week or someone's off unexpectedly or there's some big event or short-term project going on that requires more work than usual, then it might be reasonable to ask for some extra time to be put in during those situations. If they're asking for a significant amount of extra time from her every day or every week for weeks or months at a time, that's no longer reasonable; it either means she's not managing her time properly or her job duties are too much workload for a single employee. I'm not a manager myself and have zero interest in ever being one, though, so take that for what it is.

One thing I will say is that if she doesn't start pushing back, she's going to find herself working these extra hours forever; the employer will never let up by their own choice (why would they, when they're getting extra work for nothing?), and the longer she works those extra hours, the worse it will look if she does push back in the future ("You've been doing all these tasks each week for months but now you say you don't have time to finish them? How can that possibly be? And why didn't you reply to that email I sent you at 9PM, when you always have before? This sort of reduction in performance is simply unacceptable...").

If she does want to push back, just be polite about it. If her boss assigns her too much work to complete within her normal contracted hours, she needs to speak up and say "Hey, boss, you said you need X, Y, and Z done this week, but I won't have time to complete all of them; which would you like me to prioritise?" If he says they all need to be done, she should be firm and reiterate that it simply won't be possible to do them all within her working hours. (This is assuming that it really is too much work, of course; if it's a matter of her taking longer than usual to complete these tasks because she's still new at the job and learning as she goes, that's another matter entirely...)

Wanderer2010

dashoonage wrote: »

I used to reply. Then I stopped.....and guess what.....the world kept spinning.

+1.

Every company in the world managed just fine before you and it will manage just fine without you. A big lesson to learn in the working world.

lapua20grain

I'm in a senior management position and do not work at home or outside work. Usually start at 7ish due to traffic and finish at 5 every day. I used to do a lot of hours like your partner but copped on that the company didn't expect it so I stopped and as another poster has said the world kept spinning. Your life is more important than that also remember that the company has to abide by the working time directive and new legislation and record all hours worked by their workforce or face stiff fines. There was a case last year with Kepak and one of their directors she brought them to court as they had an expectation that she work extended hours and she won her case. Tell your partner to delegate some of their work this should relieve some of the pressure.

ballyargus

The WRC would have have a view on this

Jupiter Mulligan

lapua20grain wrote: »

There was a case last year with Kepak and one of their directors she brought them to court as they had an expectation that she work extended hours and she won her case. Tell your partner to delegate some of their work this should relieve some of the pressure.

She wasn't a director and she sued after she had left the job, having worked there for less than 10 months.

The award of €7.5k was pretty small by Labour Courts standards.

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/economy/executive-awarded-7-500-for-having-to-deal-with-late-night-emails-1.3584537

Firefox11

Wanderer2010 wrote: »

+1.

Every company in the world managed just fine before you and it will manage just fine without you. A big lesson to learn in the working world.

It's only after you leave a job you realize how pointless or a waste of time half the projects or stuff you did in a job really was.

DeanAustin

Wanderer2010 wrote: »

+1.

Every company in the world managed just fine before you and it will manage just fine without you. A big lesson to learn in the working world.

Exactly. Most of what we do is completely trivial. Had a fellow manager today try and get me to keep two of my team back after they finish to correct something this evening (which wasn’t their mistake in the first place). She approached me at 4:30 and started pulling faces when I said it wasn’t getting done till the morning.

Guess what? Tomorrow will be grand and this time next week there will be another “crisis” to worry about.

I could work 24 hours a day and not get everything done. I’ll 100% do my best when I’m there and respond after hours if it’s needed to help a customer or to genuinely keep the actual business moving. All the other **** can wait.

ILoveYourVibes

Oh my gosh those are CRAZY hrs.

mistermaster

Thought I’d let this one run for a day or so to see people’s replies before coming back to it myself.

General view seems to be that what she’s doing is not “reasonable”.

Personally I think there are two factors involved, that are more down to herself than any expectation of her from her own managers.

One is that she’s probably not always the best at managing her own time and tasks. Even with things around home or getting ready for holidays, etc, many things are often left to the last minute and she often under-estimates the amount of time they’ll take too.

The other is that the people she’s supposed to be managing now are the people she was on the same level as before promotion. She’s been friendly with them for the past 4 or 5 years and I think she’s afraid they’ll start to dislike her ifshe becomes more like a “boss” by picking them up on things or assigning them extra work. A sort of “she’s gone too big for her boots” type of thing. So I think she might well be trying to do too much herself instead of delegating properly.

Anyway, whole thing is having an affect on thigns like dropping off and picking up the kids, and various household tasks, as well as how we used to have an hour or two together after kids went to bed but now she’s either checking emails or else going to bed earlier because she “has” to get up earlier. Wouldn't mind it for a short time but long term is a different story.

In fairness, she's only 6 months in:
a) she's probably still learning the finer parts of her job, including time management; and,
b) she's probably keen to start off on a high note and establish trust.

These things take extra time. It depends what kind of work she does, but personally it sounds like exactly the kind of thing I'd be doing 6 months into a new role. Putting extra time in, trying to make sure things get done right. It helps set the tone so that people know what to expect from her (something that's much more difficult to do a year down the road when everyone's already had their doubts about you).

Very few companies I know of actually train people properly for new roles. A lot of stuff is left to be figured out - best case scenario, a helpful colleague is around to answer questions. She's probably putting extra time in now because it'll get her to where she wants to be. Or maybe I'm projecting! But I'd leave her to it for the first 12 months anyway. If it's not worth it, she'll figure that out herself.

skallywag

I know quite a few people who do the same (and even to a greater extreme) so it is certainly not an unusual case.

That said, what I am missing from your posts is what she really thinks about all of this herself?

Quite a few people who I know who have been in a similar situation actually enjoyed the whole scene. I have been in the same situation myself before, and while I would not say that I myself enjoyed it, I took it as what was expected in order to get on and make progress in the direction that I wanted to go. I did harbour a certain amount or resentment from time to time that my employer may have been taking advantage of me, and the fact remains that I ended up putting in a lot of hours for which I was never compensated for.

That said, when I look back now on things, I realize that I would not be where I am today if I had not made these sacrifices at that time. These days I might work for 30 mins or so on emails each day from home, and I do not mind that as this is a reasonable expectation for the position in my opinion. I would not want to go back to working a lot of extensive regular overtime though. It can also be hard to get out of this cycle once it becomes established.

mvl

- Have to say in general I get annoyed stumbling upon partners that aren't supportive enough with their wife's career choices. She wants a career out of the home, then support her with it.

It takes effort to remain competitive in a job that matters, or to progress a career further.
And legally speaking I think in this country there is a maximum of hours - possibly 48 per week, but the average is calculated over few months, so fluctuations are allowed.

PS: When I do overtime, could add up 10-15 hours a week - I get paid for extra hours, while I am not recording every minute spent answering work queries, or the time spent for my own research in the evenings.
But in the company I work for, this is in a way the company culture: every individual with purpose, drive would be doing it when required. Dossers won't.

OMM 0000

mvl wrote: »

Have to say in general I get annoyed stumbling upon partners that aren't supportive enough with their wife's career choices. She wants a career out of the home, then support her with it.

This isn't about sexism. It's about people being worried their partner is bringing home their work every day. I think most people would agree it's OK if their partner has their own business and there will be a real pay off at the end, but doing it to make someone else rich? It makes no sense.

mvl

I didn't bring sexism into it, but I am a woman with a career that brings to this thread her experience.
IMO, if a mother is interested in a career path, then I think the husband should rather support her, or find out what arrangements he can make to support her better, instead of asking on boards if her overtime is normal.

She could have declined the promotion if this is not what she wanted for herself.



From this subject point of view, we don't know what's in her contract, if they talked about this before the promotion, or even how she communicates her needs ...

But the law allows workers to have up to a number of hours per week, and what she seems to be doing is within the accepted boundaries.

OMM 0000

OK, I can accept you weren't trying to bring sexism into it, but you are trying to bring gender into it. I don't think this is a gender issue at all.

I think we all agree partners need to support each other, but if you're consistently working an extra 12 hours a week, unpaid, for someone else, there's something wrong.

ongarboy

lapua20grain wrote: »

I'm in a senior management position and do not work at home or outside work. Usually start at 7ish due to traffic and finish at 5 every day. I used to do a lot of hours like your partner but copped on that the company didn't expect it so I stopped and as another poster has said the world kept spinning. Your life is more important than that also remember that the company has to abide by the working time directive and new legislation and record all hours worked by their workforce or face stiff fines. There was a case last year with Kepak and one of their directors she brought them to court as they had an expectation that she work extended hours and she won her case. Tell your partner to delegate some of their work this should relieve some of the pressure.

What's interesting is where you say you used to work like OP's partner but stopped. As someone else said, when climbing the management ladder, people will often put in those extra hours and go beyond the call of duty. Then when they've reached a senior level that they are satisfied with, they can pull back a little and focus more on work/life balance. A good senior manager will also (in most but not all cases) be great at proper delegation and will not micro manage - both attributes help maintaining that work/life balance.

I see it all the time in my workplace. The Senior Vice Presidents are always out the door at a reasonable time and you may get the odd out of hours email from them to check the status of a critical issue. Middle managers and even those below management are burning the candles at both end to get their tasks and duties over the line.

OP - you mention your wife can be quite poor at organizational skills even with things at home (holiday planning/household chores etc). Perhaps this manifests itself into her working style too which means she is taking on extra hours a better organised worker would not need to do. She needs to learn to be a good manager rather than a good peer with her former peers and delegate fairly and not be focused on popularity. They will respect her more if she is a good manager rather than a buddy they can take advantage of. Delegation, especially with former equals can be tricky at the start. Are there management courses (organization/delegation/people management/conflict resolution etc) she can take at work? Any decent large company is always promoting self improvement training courses for their staff so they should be able to facilitate her.

mvl

OMM 0000 wrote: »

I think we all agree partners need to support each other, but if you're consistently working an extra 12 hours a week, unpaid, for someone else, there's something wrong.

But its not necessary wrong on the employer side, as we can't say that yet - so I think before making this type of statement, we need to know the contract details, company directives, role description, and so on.
- maybe some of it was covered in some of the earlier posts, but fearing we seem to want to rather go in a "Relationship advice" territory than talking about real work problems.

OMM 0000

I don't think there's anything wrong with a little bit of overtime every now and then. The issue I have is this is consistently 12 hours extra per week, including taking out the work laptop at home each evening. That's not right, regardless of what the contract, company directives and role description say. The OP has already told us this is all unpaid, and she's not on call or anything like that.

Again, I would have a completely different opinion on this if she owned the company.

mvl

OMM 0000 wrote: »

I don't think there's anything wrong with a little bit of overtime every now and then. The issue I have is this is consistently 12 hours extra per week, including taking out the work laptop at home each evening. That's not right, regardless of what the contract, company directives and role description say. The OP has already told us this is all unpaid, and she's not on call or anything like that.

OP told us she got a raise and updated contract. We don't know if the 12 hours work are consistent, as we're having second hand information. We can't even be sure if she has consented to this inquiry - this may not really be a work problem. But still, in here our focus should be on employment/legal rights.

OMM 0000 wrote: »

Again, I would have a completely different opinion on this if she owned the company.

For me it won't matter who owns the company, while I've chosen a career with purpose for me.

OMM 0000

The OP has said the 12 hours are consistent. That's why he's complaining about it.

I'm of the opinion that family life is more important than working for someone else, so when you're taking the work laptop out each night, to work for free, that's a bad thing.

I'm happy you enjoy your job.

pwurple

There's give and take here.

I'd often have the laptop out in the evenings while the telly is on, and zip off a few emails, or chat to people in other time zones, to keep projects moving. Or when I get up in the morning, before I head to the office I take a quick check of the emails to see if there are any fires to put out. Likewise, I often leave work for a school play the kids are doing, or come in a bit late if I have some personal stuff to do... I don't clock in and out, so there's an overlap where either family or work is taking priority at various times.

Your wife will probably get to that after a while and learn to float the family life pieces into the day, and drop and pickup work as needed.

mvl

OMM 0000 wrote: »

The OP has said the 12 hours are consistent. That's why he's complaining about it.

And you assume this is 100% true ?
I think pwurple describes very well what can happen with the evening time when laptop is brought home. a spouse can't know with certainty what type of work is done on that laptop in the evening hours, even if they live together; nor can we.
- Now he may be off having disagreements with the wife based on what ppl from here are saying to him.
Look, don't get me wrong, I always appreciate your input on this forum.
but we're here giving personal advice to someone who doesn't really have a work problem himself, so we need to be cautious.

OMM 0000 wrote: »

I'm of the opinion that family life is more important than working for someone else, so when you're taking the work laptop out each night, to work for free, that's a bad thing.

Family life is more important than any work, no matter who the employer is.

OMM 0000

I'm assuming what he's saying is true. But you're right, who knows.

mistermaster

I'm back here again.

Firstly, to both clarify and confirm, it's consistently between about 8 and 12 hours per week. She goes to work early every day, usually an hour early. She then stays roughly an extra half hour in the evening. If it's a day when she's only gone in 30 minutes early instead of 60, she might stay an extra hour in the evening "to make up for it". So between morning and evenings, that's up to 7.5 hours per week.

Then it's roughly 30 to 60 minutes minutes on the laptop each evening as well. So overall, average somewhere 8 to 12 hours per week.

I see somebody a few posts up tried to make this a gender issue. I think that's completely out of line. I'm not expecting her to be the dutiful little wife, having the house tidy and the dinner made when I get home from work myself every day. I wonder if this was the other way round, and a woman was on here looking for thoughts on a situation where her husband was suddenly doing an extra 8 to 12 hours per week, with no end in sight and all sorts of knock-on effects for the household, would that person have been as quick to say "a wife should support her husband in his career"?

Anyway, reason I opened this thread in the first place was to ask if people consider 8 to 12 hours per week to be "reasonable". Seems most people think it's not. And while some people say it's not unusual, that's not the same thing as saying it's "reasonable".

So thanks to all for the replies. Much appreciated.

BnB

pwurple wrote: »

There's give and take here.

I'd often have the laptop out in the evenings while the telly is on, and zip off a few emails, or chat to people in other time zones, to keep projects moving. Or when I get up in the morning, before I head to the office I take a quick check of the emails to see if there are any fires to put out. Likewise, I often leave work for a school play the kids are doing, or come in a bit late if I have some personal stuff to do... I don't clock in and out, so there's an overlap where either family or work is taking priority at various times.

Your wife will probably get to that after a while and learn to float the family life pieces into the day, and drop and pickup work as needed.

I think you hit the nail on the head there. Getting into the habit of doing 10+ hours a day as your normal day is just wrong and will not get you anywhere.

Do your normal hours day to day... and on the day when the pressure is on for something.... be prepared to put your shoulder to the wheeland put in the hours. Likewise, if you're doing this, the day you have to leave early of head out for an hour or two, it should not be an issue.

On the OP's case.... One thing that often happens when people are promoted is that they don't quite fully leave their old job. So they end up doing the new job, but still end up as the go to person for a lot of their old responsibilities too.

If that is the case (and it is a bit of a random guess) then the only answer is for your OP to put her foot down and start saying No. People will keep asking until she does - and when she does, they'll eventually figure it out themselves.

skallywag

mvl wrote: »

- Have to say in general I get annoyed stumbling upon partners that aren't supportive enough with their wife's career choices. She wants a career out of the home, then support her with it.

Have been away for the week and had not my eye on this thread.

Where are you seeing in any of the OP's messages that he is not being supportive of his wife?

My reading of it is that he is frustrated at the extra effort she needs to make which is not being compensated in any immediate way, and I interpret it as more of a concern for her own well being and appreciation rather than a slur on her.

I'm genuinely quite amazed that you could put that slant on it.

mvl

skallywag wrote: »

Where are you seeing in any of the OP's messages that he is not being supportive of his wife?

So you are not reading same posts as I am ?
1. OP told us from the beginning <I can understand her up to a point but I don’t think what she’s doing is “reasonable” and I’d also wonder if doing all that now means she’ll be doing it forever, even after her probation.>


2. OP does not seem to trust spouse's judgement about their partner's work ethic <I also ask her to think about how she's basically doing an extra day a week (or more) for no extra pay. If they said to her that she had to stick to regular office hours Monday to Friday but then go in every Saturday too, for no extra pay, she'd say "no way". But she does it this way instead.>


3. Another observation is that OP seems to be constantly monitoring how much time their partner spends on work matters. What info we are missing until now is how long does their partner spend on lunch breaks, tea breaks ... to have the full picture.


I will stop here: OP doesn't have a work problem, while their partner might have some sort of a different challenge. But I am sure someone who's been promoted to middle management can be trusted with their own decisions on work/finances matters.

As this is my last post on this thread, note that more information about what is reasonable in matters of overtime (as it is accepted by Irish law) and/or overtime pay arrangements can be found on citizensinformation.ie. My summary is: it is OK to have up to 48h work weeks averaged in 4 months, and the employer is not mandated to pay the overtime.

Enter name here

Your wife is on a salary and paid as such to perform a middle management role.

Managers normally work anywhere up to 60+ hours in the real world outside of Ireland.

If she or you don't want the extra hours then go back to an hourly pay rate and obviously a lot less in wages.

Both my wife and I are in senior global roles and regularly work 60 to 80 hrs per week as well as being away from home 20 to 25 weeks per year on business.

For those saying its absurd are normally the same people in the same role for 20 years and the first to complain about how much senior people get paid and how they are always overlooked when promotions are available.

lawred2

OMM 0000 wrote: »

This is spot on.

The managers I know - the more senior they get, the more they work.

I know a woman who is one of the senior people in a bank, and she never stops working. Even on her holiday she works 12+ hours a day.

It is not at all spot on. It's middle management. An extra 15/20 hours a week is completely unreasonable and unhealthy.

lawred2

Enter name here wrote: »

Your wife is on a salary and paid as such to perform a middle management role.

Managers normally work anywhere up to 60+ hours in the real world outside of Ireland.

If she or you don't want the extra hours then go back to an hourly pay rate and obviously a lot less in wages.

Both my wife and I are in senior global roles and regularly work 60 to 80 hrs per week as well as being away from home 20 to 25 weeks per year on business.

For those saying its absurd are normally the same people in the same role for 20 years and the first to complain about how much senior people get paid and how they are always overlooked when promotions are available.

"The real world"

Where's this exactly?

Enter name here

lawred2 wrote: »

"The real world"

Where's this exactly?

As I said anywhere outside Ireland. Would you like a link to a global map?

lawred2

Enter name here wrote: »

As I said anywhere outside Ireland. Would you like a link to a global map?

Sure. Once you finish up your overtime in your global role in the real world, you can drop me a link.

Enter name here

lawred2 wrote: »

Sure. Once you finish up your overtime in your global role in the real world, you can drop me a link.

Too funny, actually sitting back with a nice glass of red and the laptop laughing my ass off reading the comments here. But i'll be in bed shortly then up at 5 into the office by 630 and leave around 630 also, then ill spend an hr or two going over emails. Read boards for an hr or so and then repeat.

D9Male

Enter name here wrote: »

Your wife is on a salary and paid as such to perform a middle management role.

Managers normally work anywhere up to 60+ hours in the real world outside of Ireland.

If she or you don't want the extra hours then go back to an hourly pay rate and obviously a lot less in wages.

Both my wife and I are in senior global roles and regularly work 60 to 80 hrs per week as well as being away from home 20 to 25 weeks per year on business.

For those saying its absurd are normally the same people in the same role for 20 years and the first to complain about how much senior people get paid and how they are always overlooked when promotions are available.

This is one of the most depressing posts I have read. Senior global roles? Wow.

seannash

mistermaster wrote: »

Anyway, reason I opened this thread in the first place was to ask if people consider 8 to 12 hours per week to be "reasonable". Seems most people think it's not. And while some people say it's not unusual, that's not the same thing as saying it's "reasonable".

So thanks to all for the replies. Much appreciated.

Gotta say that's not my take on the responses. You have a good few people who have been in your wife's position who say it's reasonable.
When you move into management you do so with the understanding that you will be doing longer hours than your former colleagues. Yes it might settle down but what if your wife continues to get promotions and has to manage projects, travel, meet clients etc.
I am terribly disorganized and to make up for it I do overtime. I accept this is part of my personality but I have accepted a plan to combat it. It allows me to be relaxed in work and do spurts of work Instead of being flat out for 7 hours every day.
Is your wife like this?
Also, does she see a problem. If she doesn't and doesn't feel like she's taking advantage of then leave her to it.
Sometimes in a busy office the quietest time and best time to work is when nobody is around so where as you see her going in early as extra work maybe it's just her way of getting work that requires concentration done.

c.p.w.g.w

OMM 0000 wrote: »

This is spot on.

The managers I know - the more senior they get, the more they work.

I know a woman who is one of the senior people in a bank, and she never stops working. Even on her holiday she works 12+ hours a day.

That is genuinely depressing

Masala

Can she work from home on dialling in?????? I do it every so often and get a **** load of work done in one 8 hours. Let's me catch up without being disturbed etc.....

Sets me up nicely for a few weeks til I get behind again and then I take off for another Work From Home day and catch up again!!

Mrs OBumble

Enter name here wrote: »

As I said anywhere outside Ireland. Would you like a link to a global map?

A good few places in Ireland too.

The issue here is a world view disconnect between clock-watchers, who are pretty much going to stay as low to middling paid wage workers, and people with higher ambitions.

Neither side is id right or wrong, they're just different value systems.

dashoonage

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

A good few places in Ireland too.

The issue here is a world view disconnect between clock-watchers, who are pretty much going to stay as low to middling paid wage workers, and people with higher ambitions.

Neither side is id right or wrong, they're just different value systems.

Nail. head. hammer

nothing wrong with either approach, its your own life live it as you please.