How to approach the meeting with a teacher over incident?

Extremely Angry

This meeting relates to an incident which had occurred in early May. I said I'd give the schools and the teachers the benefit of the doubt and to wait for the exams to be over before approaching. The last exam of the school will be soon and we will then approach the school, we are demanding an apology from the teacher.

My niece is 18, she is in 5th year. My partner and I are giving her room and board and “looking after her” for her last two years of school. Her parents are in Portugal for reasons well beyond the scope of this thread. She was quite ill last year so opted (voluntarily) to redo her 5th year. Here's what happened.

She was in a classroom on a Friday and the teacher demanded that no one talk and to remain silent when she popped out to the photocopier. Just as the teacher was approaching back into the classroom, my niece sneezed. She simultaneously reached into her breast pocket to retrieve her packet of tissues (she had to move her phone in the same pocket to get her tissues), the girl beside her on the desk said “bless you” and she said “excuse me”. Just as her teacher walked in (with the phone on the table). Everything just happened to be wrong place, wrong time, wrong person. There is no specific rule against having a phone on your person, just as long as they don't interfere with lessons (before anyone jumps up on their high horse).

She barged over and grabbed the phone and accused her of talking against her wishes. My niece tried to reason with her but she was having none of it. She grabbed her phone (which had her passport card in the cover). She was heading over to Lisbon on an evening flight to her parents for the weekend (we were already over there). She begged her teacher for the phone back but she wouldn't listen. She asked her teacher for her number so her parents or even myself or my partner could talk but she was having none of it. She took the phone home with her. She insisted that one of her parents or guardians has to come in to get the phone on Monday.

This was a very unfortunate situation. Her passport book was with an agency because the three of us (myself, my partner and my niece) are planning a package trip around China in July / August so the passport was being processed for visa application. So using the book was not an option either. There was no specific big event happening, it was just her dad's birthday (not even a milestone) so they were just getting together for a meal and to have a few drinks over there.

I will be acting on behalf of her parents. Even writing parent / guardian of an 18-year-old woman is ridiculous.

Does anyone have any tips on how to approach this? Should I ask for a written apology? My niece and I are fuming. The school are refusing to engage with her on the issue and insisting that a "parent or guardian" discusses it.

Can I demand compensation?

jimbobaloobob

From what you wrote it was out of order
But what do you want? An apology? Compensation? How much?
Be clear on what you want first and where you're taking this if anywhere at all

kippy

Extremely Angry wrote: »

This meeting relates to an incident which had occurred in early May. I said I'd give the schools and the teachers the benefit of the doubt and to wait for the exams to be over before approaching. The last exam of the school will be soon and we will then approach the school, we are demanding an apology from the teacher.

My niece is 18, she is in 5th year. My partner and I are giving her room and board and “looking after her” for her last two years of school. Her parents are in Portugal for reasons well beyond the scope of this thread. She was quite ill last year so opted (voluntarily) to redo her 5th year. Here's what happened.

She was in a classroom on a Friday and the teacher demanded that no one talk and to remain silent when she popped out to the photocopier. Just as the teacher was approaching back into the classroom, my niece sneezed. She simultaneously reached into her breast pocket to retrieve her packet of tissues (she had to move her phone in the same pocket to get her tissues), the girl beside her on the desk said “bless you” and she said “excuse me”. Just as her teacher walked in (with the phone on the table). Everything just happened to be wrong place, wrong time, wrong person. There is no specific rule against having a phone on your person, just as long as they don't interfere with lessons (before anyone jumps up on their high horse).

She barged over and grabbed the phone and accused her of talking against her wishes. My niece tried to reason with her but she was having none of it. She grabbed her phone (which had her passport card in the cover). She was heading over to Lisbon on an evening flight to her parents for the weekend (we were already over there). She begged her teacher for the phone back but she wouldn't listen. She asked her teacher for her number so her parents or even myself or my partner could talk but she was having none of it. She took the phone home with her. She insisted that one of her parents or guardians has to come in to get the phone on Monday.

This was a very unfortunate situation. Her passport book was with an agency because the three of us (myself, my partner and my niece) are planning a package trip around China in July / August so the passport was being processed for visa application. So using the book was not an option either. There was no specific big event happening, it was just her dad's birthday (not even a milestone) so they were just getting together for a meal and to have a few drinks over there.

I will be acting on behalf of her parents. Even writing parent / guardian of an 18-year-old woman is ridiculous.

Does anyone have any tips on how to approach this? Should I ask for a written apology? My niece and I are fuming. The school are refusing to engage with her on the issue and insisting that a "parent or guardian" discusses it.

Can I demand compensation?

So your neice was unable to travel due to the phone being compensated?
Are you her legal guardians, ie are the school aware of the situation?

I'd tread carefully, be wary of demanding anything.

Shefwedfan

Would you not have gone to school principal that day and explained the situation?

I doubt the teacher brought the phone with her, it would be locked in the school, principal would get access

Why didn’t she just ask for card out of it and leave phone?

Not sure how you can look for compensation when the school had no idea, the student saying it when trying to get phone back is not going to get much notice to be honest, kids will say anything and all that

Also do you have the rest of the class to back up the story? Did everyone confirm what happened ?

Extremely Angry

kippy wrote: »

So your neice was unable to travel due to the phone being compensated?
Are you her legal guardians, ie are the school aware of the situation?

I'd tread carefully, be wary of demanding anything.

Not her phone per se.

She had her electronic boarding pass on her phone and her passport card and debit card were in the cover. They were both seized together.

Seeing as she is 18, she has no legal guardians per se, but the school are refusing to talk to her about the issue, they are insisting on talking to her "parents or guardians" despite her being 18 herself. We are seething with anger.

Extremely Angry

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Would you not have gone to school principal that day and explained the situation?

Please read the thread before posting.

We were in Lisbon ourselves with her parents. She was following us over. She wanted to do her school day then follow us over. She's not too keen on missing days.

Shefwedfan

Extremely Angry wrote: »

Please read the thread before posting.

We were in Lisbon ourselves with her parents. She was following us over. She wanted to do her school day then follow us over. She's not too keen on missing days.

Why didn’t her parent just call the school and ask for the passport card and leave the phone at the school?

BrianBoru00

So she had her phone on the desk. This is against the rules. Phone was confiscated as per school rules.
Harsh but you are not owed an apology. School is correct on not discussing it with you. Like it or not GDPR (that old chestnut) would be breached unless you are specifically names as "in loco parentis" on enrollment documents

amcalester

This could have been addressed easily enough at the time, if it happened at all.

Extremely Angry

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Why don’t her parents just call?

Why would they not put you in as guardians if they are not in country?

Please read the thread before posting. It's all addressed in the OP.

She asked for her number so she could get in touch with her parents to ask her parents to call the school, but even if she did have the teachers number it's a bit hard to pass it on to her parents without her own phone.

The teacher grabbed the phone and barged away and wouldn't even listen to her. This was towards the end of the class anyway and the bell had rang a few minutes after the teacher stole her phone.

Again, how can we be guardians to an 18-year-old adult?
It's the schools ridiculous policy of treating an 18 year old like a child demanding to speak to her "parents".

Extremely Angry

BrianBoru00 wrote: »

GDPR (that old chestnut) would be breached unless you are specifically names as "in loco parentis" on enrollment documents

GPDR doesn't apply here.

BrianBoru00 wrote: »

So she had her phone on the desk. This is against the rules. Phone was confiscated as per school rules.

So what? Stay in the classroom with a snotty nose? Let's not violate the spirit of the rules in favour of the letter of the rules.
If you bother to read the thread you'll see that there is no specific rule against having a phone on your person as long as they don't interfere with lessons.

Please indicate where my niece's phone interfered with a lesson like a good little boy.

Extremely Angry

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Why didn’t her parent just call the school and ask for the passport card and leave the phone at the school?

How could my niece have alerted her parents in the first place without a phone?

splinter65

Why did your niece not make her way to her class tutor/principal/vice principal or any other teacher and explain that she needed to at least get her passport card and debit card and have the boarding pass printed?

Shefwedfan

Extremely Angry wrote: »

How could my niece have alerted her parents in the first place without a phone?

So she is the only person in the school with a phone?

No pay phones?

At my old school if you had emergency and walked up to secretary or any of the teacher they would let you use phone in office just to ring and ask for call back

kippy

Extremely Angry wrote: »

How could my niece have alerted her parents in the first place without a phone?

When did you find out about the incident and how?

Extremely Angry

splinter65 wrote: »

Why did your niece not make her way to her class tutor/principal/vice principal or any other teacher and explain that she needed to at least get her passport card and debit card and have the boarding pass printed?

The school have a policy of not discussing it at all without seeing a parent / guardian. They wouldn't listen, Hitler himself could be after my niece and they still wouldn't listen.

FYI, not that it's anyone's business, my partner and I were named as guardians in loco until she was 17, but seeing as she is now 18, she is her own woman and should be treated as such.

I will be meeting the girl who stole her phone tomorrow.

I want to have all my bases covered and get all we are entitled to.

Even if we called up, the phone won't be handed over unless the parent actually comes in in person.
The stolen phone was either in the teacher's locker or brought home after she stole it. Even if we go through, they still wouldn't hand it over without us coming in in person.

The secretary and principal don't stay until the end of the day on Fridays and she didn't know the email address or reference number used as they were booked under my email address. Again, hard to travel when your passport card and phone were stolen together.

looksee

She is over 18, she is an adult and it would be wrong for another adult to speak on her behalf. I am not aware that there are exceptions for 18 year olds still in school.

While she might need some moral support it is for her to interact with the school. Did she get her phone back? The teacher had no right to take it home, or it should at most have been left in the school office, it should not have been taken home. How does your niece know it was taken home? This should all have been dealt with at the time. Logically your niece should have gone to the office and explained the situation, and asked for the phone back. There do seem to be weak spots in the timeline.

Has she now finished at the school? I think you have two alternatives; both of you request an interview with the Principal - with you there just as moral support, or she writes a letter to the school and copies it to the Board. Its a bit late to be 'fuming' now, so keep the letter/meeting calm and reasonable, and compensation does not come into it.

Also be careful about what you claim happened, you were not there. There is no reason for you to doubt your niece, but it is all hearsay, you cannot speak with any authority about it.

Shefwedfan

Extremely Angry wrote: »

Please read the thread before posting. It's all addressed in the OP.

She asked for her number so she could get in touch with her parents to ask her parents to call the school, but even if she did have the teachers number it's a bit hard to pass it on to her parents without her own phone.

The teacher grabbed the phone and barged away and wouldn't even listen to her. This was towards the end of the class anyway and the bell had rang a few minutes after the teacher stole her phone.

Again, how can we be guardians to an 18-year-old adult?
It's the schools ridiculous policy of treating an 18 year old like a child demanding to speak to her "parents".

Teacher did steal her phone

So the teacher wasn’t made aware of the passport as she just left with phone?

If the school has a policy to have a guardian or parent for each student, then you just get parents to ring school and put your details down....

If it was end of day then straight to principal and explain the situation, they will give the passport back....maybe even give the phone back and then take it the following week....

Why would the school want to block her from going to parents?

spurious

Don't bandy words like 'stole' around.
Read and double -read the behaviour policy to make sure you are correct in alleging anything was done incorrectly.

kippy

Extremely Angry wrote: »

The school have a policy of not discussing it at all without seeing a parent / guardian. They wouldn't listen, Hitler himself could be after my niece and they still wouldn't listen.

FYI, not that it's anyone's business, my partner and I were named as guardians in loco until she was 17, but seeing as she is now 18, she is her own woman and should be treated as such.

I will be meeting the girl who stole her phone tomorrow.

I want to have all my bases covered and get all we are entitled to.

Have you read the school policies and rules on all of these areas?

Shefwedfan

Extremely Angry wrote: »

The school have a policy of not discussing it at all without seeing a parent / guardian. They wouldn't listen, Hitler himself could be after my niece and they still wouldn't listen.

FYI, not that it's anyone's business, my partner and I were named as guardians in loco until she was 17, but seeing as she is now 18, she is her own woman and should be treated as such.

I will be meeting the girl who stole her phone tomorrow.

I want to have all my bases covered and get all we are entitled to.

Even if we called up, the phone won't be handed over unless the parent actually comes in in person.
The stolen phone was either in the teacher's locker or brought home after she stole it. Even if we go through, they still wouldn't hand it over without us coming in in person.

The secretary and principal don't stay until the end of the day on Fridays and she didn't know the email address or reference number used as they were booked under my email address. Again, hard to travel when your passport card and phone were stolen together.

The phone was not stolen

Your entitled to nothing by the way

Breaking school policy is breaking school policy

micar

Me thinks someone is being a little economical with the truth.

Holes being poked in the story.

A writen apology and compensation ... . Ffs

No doubt we will be reading about this in the papers in a few months when the judge throws it out for being absolutely ridiculous.

Plenty of solicitors will take this on purely for the €€€€€€€€

Extremely Angry

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Breaking school policy is breaking school policy

Which school policy did I break?
It seems to me you did not read the thread.

There is no specific rule against having a phone on your person, just as long as they don't interfere with lessons (before anyone jumps up on their high horse).

Rules are only breached it if interferes with lessons. Pray tell how her phone interfered with lessons?

Big Bag of Chips

This happened over a month ago?

Why was it not dealt with once you all got home from Lisbon? I don't see what good going at it now, 6 weeks later is going to do. Your niece I assume has done her leaving and has nothing more to do with the school?

Move on, and forget about it.

splinter65

Extremely Angry wrote: »

The school have a policy of not discussing it at all without seeing a parent / guardian. They wouldn't listen, Hitler himself could be after my niece and they still wouldn't listen.

FYI, not that it's anyone's business, my partner and I were named as guardians in loco until she was 17, but seeing as she is now 18, she is her own woman and should be treated as such.

I will be meeting the girl who stole her phone tomorrow.

I want to have all my bases covered and get all we are entitled to.

Even if we called up, the phone won't be handed over unless the parent actually comes in in person.
The stolen phone was either in the teacher's locker or brought home after she stole it. Even if we go through, they still wouldn't hand it over without us coming in in person.

The secretary and principal don't stay until the end of the day on Fridays and she didn't know the email address or reference number used as they were booked under my email address. Again, hard to travel when your passport card and phone were stolen together.

Are you suggesting that if a pupil knocked on the principals door and asked to have a word that she wouldn’t be heard? Sorry, I just don’t buy that I’m afraid.
The child’s parents need to contact the school by post, or email, asking for a response within 5 working days.
They should have done that within hours of the incident.

amcalester

Extremely Angry wrote: »

The school have a policy of not discussing it at all without seeing a parent / guardian. They wouldn't listen, Hitler himself could be after my niece and they still wouldn't listen.

FYI, not that it's anyone's business, my partner and I were named as guardians in loco until she was 17, but seeing as she is now 18, she is her own woman and should be treated as such.

I will be meeting the girl who stole her phone tomorrow.

I want to have all my bases covered and get all we are entitled to.

Even if we called up, the phone won't be handed over unless the parent actually comes in in person.
The stolen phone was either in the teacher's locker or brought home after she stole it. Even if we go through, they still wouldn't hand it over without us coming in in person.

The secretary and principal don't stay until the end of the day on Fridays and she didn't know the email address or reference number used as they were booked under my email address. Again, hard to travel when your passport card and phone were stolen together.

Interest correlation in the incorrect use of the word stole with this thread.

https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=109028555

GarIT

I could be wrong but I believe confiscating someone's passport/passport card may be a criminal offence regardless of any agreement between the school, student and teachers on confisciation rules.


There were some nightclubs that got into serious trouble a while ago for confiscating passports (to give to gardai) that they thought were fake but actually weren't.

_Brian

honestly can’t understand how she needed to take the phone out into the desk to get a tissue, even so put it straight back.
Can’t blame the teacher for taking the phone as that’s the rules.

Teachers hear excuse after excuse from students so they just blanket apply the rules, can’t blame them for that.

I can’t believe anyone would think or talk about compensation or apology or any nonsense over this.

She was caught with her phone out when it’s against the rules, that’s the crux of the story.

Extremely Angry

Big Bag of Chips wrote: »

This happened over a month ago?

Why was it not dealt with once you all got home from Lisbon? I don't see what good going at it now, 6 weeks later is going to do. Your niece I assume has done her leaving and has nothing more to do with the school?

Move on, and forget about it.

Read the OP. She's in fifth year. Jesus.

Extremely Angry

_Brian wrote: »

She was caught with her phone out when it’s against the rules, that’s the crux of the story.

No it's not.

Read the OP.

_Brian

Extremely Angry wrote: »

The school have a policy of not discussing it at all without seeing a parent / guardian. They wouldn't listen, Hitler himself could be after my niece and they still wouldn't listen.

FYI, not that it's anyone's business, my partner and I were named as guardians in loco until she was 17, but seeing as she is now 18, she is her own woman and should be treated as such.

I will be meeting the girl who stole her phone tomorrow.

I want to have all my bases covered and get all we are entitled to.

Even if we called up, the phone won't be handed over unless the parent actually comes in in person.
The stolen phone was either in the teacher's locker or brought home after she stole it. Even if we go through, they still wouldn't hand it over without us coming in in person.

The secretary and principal don't stay until the end of the day on Fridays and she didn't know the email address or reference number used as they were booked under my email address. Again, hard to travel when your passport card and phone were stolen together.

Honestly going in saying the phone was stolen and you’ll just be laughed out the door, and rightly so.
Can tell from the tone of posts that there is a respect problem in general here and obviously the kid has licked that up too.

Bless the poor teacher trying to better these kids and dealing with crap like this too.

JJJackal

GarIT wrote: »

I could be wrong but I believe confiscating someone's passport/passport card may be a criminal offence regardless of any agreement between the school, student and teachers on confisciation rules.


There were some nightclubs that got into serious trouble a while ago for confiscating passports (to give to gardai) that they thought were fake but actually weren't.

I presume the passport card was not knowingly confiscated.

Plus if the OP's niece asked the teacher I presume she would have given the passport card back?? (open to correction; this may have taken place and she didnt get it back)

Extremely Angry

She will rue the day she stole my nieces property

Shefwedfan

micar wrote: »

Me thinks someone is being a little economical with the truth.

Holes being poked in the story.

A writen apology and compensation ... . Ffs

No doubt we will be reading about this in the papers in a few months when the judge throws it out for being absolutely ridiculous.

Plenty of solicitors will take this on purely for the €€€€€€€€

I was waiting for the niece wasn’t talking, she was actually saying a decade of the rosary.....if you throw in religion would that mean more €€€€€?

shopper2011

If all of what your saying is true and the phone was taken home, they didnt listen to reasoning, or contact parents to verifyand the teacher left the students unsupervised...
Then the OP is absolutly entitles to make a case to the principal. The day of an autocratic teacher is gone. While I do support a teacher needing to excert order and discipline to create a learning environment, the student has a right to be heard and ahould be given an opurtunity to explain or at least access the phone to retrieve numbers and passport details etc

JJJackal

If the courts found in favour of the OP, there would be no way to control mobile phones in class rooms

JJJackal

shopper2011 wrote: »

If all of what your saying is true and the phone was taken home, they didnt listen to reasoning, or contact parents to verifyand the teacher left the students unsupervised...
Then the OP is absolutly entitles to make a case to the principal. The day of an autocratic teacher is gone. While I do support a teacher needing to excert order and discipline to create a learning environment, the student has a right to be heard and ahould be given an opurtunity to explain or at least access the phone to retrieve numbers and passport details etc

I think we are lacking a certain granularity in the story to know what was said between niece and teacher

Shefwedfan

_Brian wrote: »

Honestly going in saying the phone was stolen and you’ll just be laughed out the door, and rightly so.
Can tell from the tone of posts that there is a respect problem in general here and obviously the kid has licked that up too.

Bless the poor teacher trying to better these kids and dealing with crap like this too.

I would like to be a fly in the wall in the meeting tomorrow

If the posts are anything to go by I would tell the teacher to record....

If OP is not a guardian, no idea why they think they can walk in off the street now and act as some sort of parent to the child? The school could rightly fire them out the door

Professor Moriarty

Just wondering if you find that you get angry a lot? It's six weeks and you're still "seething". Which is obvious from the tone of your posts. A word to the wise. Assume that it was a genuine mistake by the teacher and let it go. Even if it was done out of malice, you won't win and if you create a scene it won't be in your niece's interest nevermind anyone else.

Corkgirl18

Realistically, if you go into that meeting with the attitude your showing here you're going to get nowhere anyway.

Even if the principal wasn't there until the end of the day, your niece has a class teacher. She has a year head. She should have approached them.

"There is no specific rule against having a phone on your person, just as long as they don't interfere with lessons. - In relation to this - Please double check the wording in the behaviour policy before the meeting. Most school policies ban phones on show in classrooms at the very least.

JJJackal

Shefwedfan wrote: »

I would like to be a fly in the wall in the meeting tomorrow

If the posts are anything to go by I would tell the teacher to record....

If OP is not a guardian, no idea why they think they can walk in off the street now and act as some sort of parent to the child? The school could rightly fire them out the door

The child (or adult in this case) is 18 - she has no guardian a such now in law

eviltwin

Extremely Angry wrote: »

She will rue the day she stole my nieces property

Would you ever cop on?

Shefwedfan

Extremely Angry wrote: »

She will rue the day she stole my nieces property

You might with that attitude, you have no say in your niece life which you admit, you are not her guardian

To the school your just some crazy person trying to make a few quid....they can call the Garda and have you arrested for going into school property...

You could go into the school, go on the swing and then fall off it, that might be a better chance of the compo you are looking for

JJJackal

Corkgirl18 wrote: »

Realistically, if you go into that meeting with the attitude your showing here you're going to get nowhere anyway.

Even if the principal wasn't there until the end of the day, your niece has a class teacher. She has a year head. She should have approached them.

"There is no specific rule against having a phone on your person, just as long as they don't interfere with lessons. - In relation to this - Please double check the wording in the behaviour policy before the meeting. Most school policies ban phones on show in classrooms at the very least.

The phone was out on the desk - technically not on her person

Big Bag of Chips

If you are indeed "extremely angry" why have you waited 6 weeks to deal with this? Your niece is in 5th year you say, so not involved in state exams? Wht, if you are so furious, have you allowed 6 weeks to pass, to allow the school deal with exams?

And why are you referring to an adult teacher as 'the girl who stole the phone'.

Exams are finished up in most schools. Teachers are gone off the premises more or less since the end of May. How are you meeting her tomorrow?

Professor Moriarty

Extremely Angry wrote: »

She will rue the day she stole my nieces property

Jaysus. The poor niece.

Shefwedfan

JJJackal wrote: »

The child (or adult in this case) is 18 - she has no guardian a such now in law

But you can be marked at the school as contact, which the OP isn’t

So why is OP going to the school?

Corkgirl18

JJJackal wrote: »

The phone was out on the desk - technically not on her person

I never said it was on her person. I said on show - meaning a teacher being able to see it...

JJJackal

Shefwedfan wrote: »

But you can be marked at the school as contact, which the OP isn’t

So why is OP going to the school?

But as a contact you cant represent the adult I presume?

_Brian

Extremely Angry wrote: »

She will rue the day she stole my nieces property

Really?
What does that mean ??

If your showing no respect for the school teachers (which your not) it’s no surprise the kid had no respect for the rules and had their phone out and was chatting to others when requested not to.

JJJackal

Corkgirl18 wrote: »

I never said it was on her person. I said on show - meaning a teacher being able to see it...

Apologies - I just wanted to point out that it didnt follow school policy