Is Brexit Britain a third world country?

Balanadan

Whatever about the crackpot, tinpot policians, the country itself has really been going backwards for a number of years now.

Their border control is outdated, not recognising passport cards with biometric chips. Amazing really when you consider the importance they place upon border control in discussions on Brexit. It is an absolute pain in the hole to fly through/into the UK from EUrope unless you're coming from Ireland under the CTA.

Businesses and restaurants are closing down left, right and centre. City centres, town centres, and even parts of Central London are deserted. A few years back you'd struggle to get into some restaurants on a weekend evening without a reservation, and even with one, you'd be put under pressure to finish with the table. These days many of those same restaurants are half empty or closed.

I recently stayed in a new luxury hotel which was like something you might expect in an isolated third-world country. The check-in experience resembled a bad day in Fawlty Towers, two of the three lifts didn't work, the lighting in the room was so poor you'd wonder did they run out of money for light fixtures, there was a constant hum from the plumbing in the bathroom, and there were food shortages at breakfast.

ILoveYourVibes

Definitely regressive.

Silentcorner

Depends on how they Brexit I would imagine.

A no deal Brexit should have an awful impact on the British economy, it would be hard to see how Scotland would want to stay in the UK...so that will be like a side show in amongst the carnage...the North is already one of the most politically dysfunctional nations in the developed world...

I can't for the life of me see a Brexit that will help Britain...indeed, the EU, for all its flaws, has been a handy scapegoat for far too long in Britain especially...and with a complete charlatan like Johnson about to take the reins, I wouldn't like to be British.

We of course, are also in unchartered waters...with a completely inflexible political system rooted in parochialism...it is hard to see how we would deal with the calamity in any meaningful way...our tourism industry will get the first shock but it impact plenty of others.

Hamsterchops

Balanadan wrote: »

Is Brexit Britain a third world country?

Is?

Will it become?

I doubt it, but I do thing the integrity (the Union of...) of the United Kingdom (of GB& NI) will be under even more threat, possibly even fracturing, to leave England & Wales without Scotland & Northern Ireland.

branie2

I don't think so

Yurt2

Balanadan wrote: »

Whatever about the crackpot, tinpot policians, the country itself has really been going backwards for a number of years now.

Their border control is outdated, not recognising passport cards with biometric chips. Amazing really when you consider the importance they place upon border control in discussions on Brexit. It is an absolute pain in the hole to fly through/into the UK from EUrope unless you're coming from Ireland under the CTA.

When I flew to Brussels (this was a good few months after they were first issued) , their automatic gates didn't take the Irish passport card, so not just a UK problem.


Heathrow automatic gates took my passport proper no problem.

InTheShadows

If they are 3rd world then we must be down in 4th tbh

1o059k7ewrqj3n

The ultimate neo-con/globalist strategy is to make every country third world, to lower standards, lower wages, lower rights, all across the board, so that only an upper echelon, the cream of the crop, have the nice mansions, the best service, healthcare, all because they can afford it.

There's a scene early on in the film Children of Men which you would do well to watch.

Ignore the plot of the movie for a second and just see what kind of the world that they want you to live in. There are far too many resources in this world for it to happen, yet if a core few keep control and keep hoarding things, this is what they will have us do.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VJXLgnUPxcE

Seth Brundle

Yurt! wrote: »

When I flew to Brussels (this was a good few months after they were first issued) , their automatic gates didn't take the Irish passport card, so not just a UK problem.


Heathrow automatic gates took my passport proper no problem.

I think thats all over.
The credit card sized passport cards arent usable in the automated passport machines even in Dublin.

mfceiling

Balanadan wrote: »

Whatever about the crackpot, tinpot policians, the country itself has really been going backwards for a number of years now.

Their border control is outdated, not recognising passport cards with biometric chips. Amazing really when you consider the importance they place upon border control in discussions on Brexit. It is an absolute pain in the hole to fly through/into the UK from EUrope unless you're coming from Ireland under the CTA.

Businesses and restaurants are closing down left, right and centre. City centres, town centres, and even parts of Central London are deserted. A few years back you'd struggle to get into some restaurants on a weekend evening without a reservation, and even with one, you'd be put under pressure to finish with the table. These days many of those same restaurants are half empty or closed.

I recently stayed in a new luxury hotel which was like something you might expect in an isolated third-world country. The check-in experience resembled a bad day in Fawlty Towers, two of the three lifts didn't work, the lighting in the room was so poor you'd wonder did they run out of money for light fixtures, there was a constant hum from the plumbing in the bathroom, and there were food shortages at breakfast.

What Hotel was it OP?

greenfield21

Are we not still waiting for them to leave the EU? if things are so bad then why do so many think brexit was a bad choice.

ILoveYourVibes

greenfield21 wrote: »

Are we not still waiting for them to leave the EU? if things are so bad then why do so many think brexit was a bad choice.

In the polls the figures have not changed much since the referendum. It's still 55 45 ish or just about half and half.

It was always torn.

Phileas Frog

Seth Brundle wrote: »

I think thats all over.
The credit card sized passport cards arent usable in the automated passport machines even in Dublin.

They are.

ancapailldorcha

Of course not. That's absurd. The UK is a wonderful country to live in. It's got some severe problems with inequality in my opinion which need addressing sooner rather than later or there will be a significant group of middle-aged voters living in sh*tty houseshares.

Brexit represents a serous hit to the UK's economy, no question. The UK has a services-based economy. Those services are provided by people who are more mobile than ever. Telling millions of EU migrants here that they are not welcome as well as comparing the EU to the Soviet Union is a poor signal to send to potential investors. Post Brexit Britain will be poorer but it won't be the Third World. Those who suffer most, as is the norm with revolutions are the working classes who voted for radical change and will get a free trade, small government, low tax and low regulation dystopia that none of them ever wanted.

cashback

Balanadan wrote: »

Businesses and restaurants are closing down left, right and centre. City centres, town centres, and even parts of Central London are deserted. A few years back you'd struggle to get into some restaurants on a weekend evening without a reservation, and even with one, you'd be put under pressure to finish with the table. These days many of those same restaurants are half empty or closed.

I recently stayed in a new luxury hotel which was like something you might expect in an isolated third-world country. The check-in experience resembled a bad day in Fawlty Towers, two of the three lifts didn't work, the lighting in the room was so poor you'd wonder did they run out of money for light fixtures, there was a constant hum from the plumbing in the bathroom, and there were food shortages at breakfast.

I can't help but wonder which part of central London was deserted OP. Never really noticed any deserted areas of London.

They'll rock on nicely.
FTSE100 will tell a positive story over the coming decades.

ILoveYourVibes

It depends on where companies go.


Larger British companies will want access to the EU market.

AllForIt

cashback wrote: »

I can't help but wonder which part of central London was deserted OP. Never really noticed any deserted areas of London.

I was wondering that too. I'd like to move there away from the hustle and bustle of of the rest of the city but yet have London city on my doorstep.

Atoms for Peace

Well they'll always have the empire to fall back on.

Gekko

Which hotel was that OP?

Yurt2

cashback wrote: »

I can't help but wonder which part of central London was deserted OP. Never really noticed any deserted areas of London.

He was wandering around Hyde Park at 5am clutching a bottle of Tesco vodka.

ILoveYourVibes

Let's not lie. It's a worse off country.

We just can't measure by how much yet.

Harry Palmr

I expect a lot of money is being held back as businesses fear a meltdown post Brexit, thus creating the environment for a meltdown!

Osborne

Balanadan wrote: »

I recently stayed in a new luxury hotel

What Hotel was this?

Capt'n Midnight

Augeo wrote: »

They'll rock on nicely.
FTSE100 will tell a positive story over the coming decades.

Of course it will.

Mostly because Sterling will fall. It's multinational companies with only a third of their income in sterling. They simply aren't that exposed to Brexit.

Oafley Jones

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

Of course not. That's absurd. The UK is a wonderful country to live in. It's got some severe problems with inequality in my opinion which need addressing sooner rather than later or there will be a significant group of middle-aged voters living in sh*tty houseshares.

Those issues needed sorting decades ago. And it’s just gotten worse and worse. We bang on about limerick in this country, but there’s no comparison to the level of poverty which exists in parts of Britain. The place reminds me more and more of the US.

Church on Tuesday

Balanadan wrote: »

Whatever about the crackpot, tinpot policians, the country itself has really been going backwards for a number of years now.

Their border control is outdated, not recognising passport cards with biometric chips. Amazing really when you consider the importance they place upon border control in discussions on Brexit. It is an absolute pain in the hole to fly through/into the UK from EUrope unless you're coming from Ireland under the CTA.

Businesses and restaurants are closing down left, right and centre. City centres, town centres, and even parts of Central London are deserted. A few years back you'd struggle to get into some restaurants on a weekend evening without a reservation, and even with one, you'd be put under pressure to finish with the table. These days many of those same restaurants are half empty or closed.

I recently stayed in a new luxury hotel which was like something you might expect in an isolated third-world country. The check-in experience resembled a bad day in Fawlty Towers, two of the three lifts didn't work, the lighting in the room was so poor you'd wonder did they run out of money for light fixtures, there was a constant hum from the plumbing in the bathroom, and there were food shortages at breakfast.

Now that's an over exaggeration if there ever was one.

I'm sure the Brits will be fine.

Church on Tuesday

cashback wrote: »

I can't help but wonder which part of central London was deserted OP. Never really noticed any deserted areas of London.

Maybe in 28 Days Later?

Oafley Jones

Oafley Jones wrote: »

Those issues needed sorting decades ago. And it’s just gotten worse and worse. We bang on about limerick in this country, but there’s no comparison to the level of poverty which exists in parts of Britain. The place reminds me more and more of the US.

Their social welfare is better than that of the US but not as generous as ours.

Capt'n Midnight

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

Of course it will.

Mostly because Sterling will fall. It's multinational companies with only a third of their income in sterling. They simply aren't that exposed to Brexit.

I don't think sterling will fall much in the long-term TBH.

Balanadan

cashback wrote: »

I can't help but wonder which part of central London was deserted OP. Never really noticed any deserted areas of London.

I had my pick of restaurants around Leicester Square / Piccadilly on a Friday/Saturday night. I had a good chat with one of the waiters while picking up the bill, he remarked the same as me. Very quiet and lots of closed businesses around Bank and St. Paul's too, deserted.

mfceiling wrote: »

What Hotel was it OP?

It was a Hilton, chosen for proximity to business meetings more than anything else, supposedly the best of the bunch in the area. I'll ask my PA for the details, I asked her to blacklist it.

JohnnyFlash

Short term pain for long term gain.

Balanadan

Berties_Horse wrote: »

Do you pilot your own learjet?

I've been meaning to take some time to get my licence but it's difficult to find the time. When I'm not working I'm usually entertaining some beautiful woman.

Yamanoto

Balanadan wrote: »

It was a Hilton, chosen for proximity to business meetings more than anything else, supposedly the best of the bunch in the area. I'll ask my PA for the details, I asked her to blacklist it.

Which area was this?

mad muffin

mfceiling wrote: »

What Hotel was it OP?

It’s right there in the OP. Faulty Towers.

Mezcita

First sign of it here for me. Unable to get insured on my English girlfriend's policy without giving up my Irish license or getting a UK one. Guh.

Capt'n Midnight

Augeo wrote: »

I don't think sterling will fall much in the long-term TBH.

If there's a Hard Brexit expect it to reach parity with the Euro shortly.

Then factor that in a few years GDP would be 10% behind where it could have been without Brexit

China and India is where all the big growth will be but they've made it clear they'll have big demands for any UK deal.. And in case you haven't noticed the US is involved in a trade with everyone, so big tariffs on EU/China/Mexico/India.



As for the UK expecting a good deal with the US ?

Never Give a Sucker an Even Break
- W. C. Fields.

Silentcorner

Silentcorner wrote: »

Depends on how they Brexit I would imagine.

A no deal Brexit should have an awful impact on the British economy, it would be hard to see how Scotland would want to stay in the UK...so that will be like a side show in amongst the carnage...the North is already one of the most politically dysfunctional nations in the developed world...

I can't for the life of me see a Brexit that will help Britain...indeed, the EU, for all its flaws, has been a handy scapegoat for far too long in Britain especially...and with a complete charlatan like Johnson about to take the reins, I wouldn't like to be British.

We of course, are also in unchartered waters...with a completely inflexible political system rooted in parochialism...it is hard to see how we would deal with the calamity in any meaningful way...our tourism industry will get the first shock but it impact plenty of others.

Excellent post. Blaming the EU for the poverty and unemployment today of the same areas of England which were poor and ignored in the 1920s/1930s/before Britain joined the EU in 1973 was never a good idea. This pattern of neglect long predates EU membership. So much ignorance while the Tory toffs (and 'Third Way' Labour politicians) continue on at the vanguard of support for globalisation, lowering conditions for the same British poor whom they now feign to be interested in protecting. There are two absolute certainties of Brexit:

1) The EU will be the scapegoat for all the bad things of Brexit. About 7 Tory-supporting Eurosceptic oligarchs own most of the British media - watch that space. And the next British PM will be chosen by about 0.35% of the British population, and it's going to be one of two Oxbridge graduates. But... but...but the EU is "elitist" and "undemocratic".

2) The poorer and marginalised areas and communities which supported Brexit will have their wages and conditions of employment (if they're lucky to be employed) reduced significantly in the forthcoming years as the British struggle to compete, while the wealthy will either, like James Dyson and others, move most of their wealth out of Britain, or dictate lower taxes and better returns for keeping their money there.

The predictability of these two things is painful. And, yes, many smaller Irish firms, particularly in agribusiness, will suffer because of the overdependence on the British market by smaller, Irish-owned businesses - so the regional impact in Ireland of Brexit will not be even.

Augeo

Augeo wrote: »

I don't think sterling will fall much in the long-term TBH.

If rightwing British politicians are as thick today as they were in the 1920s, they'll revalue sterling higher than it's worth out of a sense of imperial prestige, leading to the price of British exports rocketing and thus the quantity of exports sold declining rapidly (because foreigners, who would have to pay for British products in British money, would get fewer pounds for their money).

Google 'Gold Standard', 1925 and Winston Churchill, and see how that one policy was central to the rapid decline in British competitiveness and consequent enormous rise in British unemployment. This then led directly to, among other things, the 1926 General Strike of millions of British workers.

The painfully obtuse and malleable Brexit-supporting British do not know their own history, though. And that is a really big problem.

biko

I haven't been to England in a while but last I was it did not feel like a 3rd world country (except parts of London).

My luxury hotel was luxurious, no complaints from me.

corsav6

I was there with the wife and kids 2 weeks ago. We went from Windsor to London on a Monday hoping it would be quiet but it was packed. It rained all day but the place was packed.
Legoland in Tuesday was also packed, midweek during school time and still extremely busy. On Wednesday which was our last day we went swimming to a place outside Windsor and guess what? It was packed, again midweek during school hours too. A quick stop into the nearest Penney's beforehand as we forgot towels and it once again was busy.
So I'm not sure where you were op, or what you were on but our experience of London and surrounding areas were far different than yours.

InTheShadows

I think a lot of people here are desperate for the UK to fall apart after the coming hard Brexit which i find sad if im honest. I have a lot of friends and indeed family in the UK and i completely respect their democratic choice to leave the EU. They will struggle in the short term but i feel after 2-3 years of pain they are going to be in a very strong position.

Victor

Balanadan wrote: »

Is Brexit Britain a third world country?

Brexit is inconsistent with a developing country.

JupiterKid

Walking around Oxford today it seems the OP's assertions are unfounded and Britain is in pretty rude health.

Then again, Oxford is a university city packed with tourists at this time of year and is pretty wealthy so I doubt it would compare to, say, Bradford or Hull.

steddyeddy

InTheShadows wrote: »

I think a lot of people here are desperate for the UK to fall apart after the coming hard Brexit which i find sad if im honest. I have a lot of friends and indeed family in the UK and i completely respect their democratic choice to leave the EU. They will struggle in the short term but i feel after 2-3 years of pain they are going to be in a very strong position.

You're not helping them by spreading the myth that leaving the biggest single market in the world is going to be good for the UK. Name a country that thrives on WTO rules?

ancapailldorcha

InTheShadows wrote: »

I think a lot of people here are desperate for the UK to fall apart after the coming hard Brexit which i find sad if im honest. I have a lot of friends and indeed family in the UK and i completely respect their democratic choice to leave the EU. They will struggle in the short term but i feel after 2-3 years of pain they are going to be in a very strong position.

Ah yes, the old Brexit underpants gnome argument:

1. Leave the EU
2. ???
3. Profit

I'd be grateful if you could elaborate on step 2.

Danzy

Britain is just the EU with good growth and kow unemployment.

It still has the same problems, deterioration in many ways, just better growth and low unemployment.

Both are over reliant on past success to pay the bills today.

To call it 3rd world though is mad, it remains one of the more well to do States in the Western World by some margin to many others in it.

DublinWriter

I can't understand why Sterling has remained so high against the Euro.

Admittedly, it had dropped somewhat in the past two years, but nothing like I imagined it would.

I get the horrible feeling that the Bank of England are covertly buttressing the currency something akin to what happened with the dropping-out of Sterling from the ERM in 1992 when briefly at one point, the Irish punt was worth more the pound sterling.

Danzy

InTheShadows wrote: »

I think a lot of people here are desperate for the UK to fall apart after the coming hard Brexit which i find sad if im honest. I have a lot of friends and indeed family in the UK and i completely respect their democratic choice to leave the EU. They will struggle in the short term but i feel after 2-3 years of pain they are going to be in a very strong position.

I'd like to see the U.K. fall apart politically but prefer it to be amicably done, as much as it could be anyway.

A no deal Brexit would cause massive problems but people are also overlooking that the Eurozone region is not an economic success. 10% smaller now than a decade ago, as opposed to Britain being 10% bigger, no great shake there, while the US is 50% bigger GDP wise now.

It has shocking youth unemployment, underemployment, very low GDP growth etc etc.

No Deal is the least preferred option.

Grayson

I believe the UK has the worst income inequality in the EU. When you see what's happened to towns, especially in the midlands and north, it's scary. There's huge swathes of the country outside London that have very little going for them. And in London the inequality is generational. Younger generations have very little hope if purchasing homes in one of the most expensive cities in the world.

Danzy

DublinWriter wrote: »

I can't understand why Sterling has remained so high against the Euro.

Admittedly, it had dropped somewhat in the past two years, but nothing like I imagined it would.

I get the horrible feeling that the Bank of England are covertly buttressing the currency something akin to what happened with the dropping-out of Sterling from the ERM in 1992 when briefly at one point, the Irish punt was worth more the pound sterling.

It's fundamentals are better than the Eurozones.

Wirh massive and sustained QE and negative Interest rates, the Eurozone economy bare grew, is stuttering once again and has a small risk of turning deflationary. Never mind looking at the debt crisis in Italy or the shocking state of German banking.