Leaf or not.

from_atozinc

Hi all

Here is my story.

I do about 5000 miles a year. If I was to buy a Leaf, would be mainly for me. Herself has a diesel car. We are a Family of 4.

I work from home a lot. I commute maybe twice a week. Commute is 30 mile round trip.

Go to gym about 3/4 times a week. This is 22 mile round trip.

Otherwise used for going to shop, local runs, school
Drops etc

May be used for the occasional long run. 200km or so.

Currently have a 2.5 litre petrol auto. 2006. Pay 1220 in tax and about 1200 in fuel per year.

I know lots of people say to get a gen 1.5. Not sure if a gen 1 would work for me. Also hear 1.5
Is just simply better all round. Not sure I could handle the cream interior of gen 1

Either way, I’d only get 2000 Euro for my current car.......... and would have to spend at least 5000 Euro extra to get a Leaf. So probably take 2-3 years to break even.

I’m doing this more so from a cost saving point of view.
I have 2 x public charger ( not the fast one) down the road from me exactly 5 minutes walk away.

When doing 5000 miles a year, is it realistically worthwhile to get a leaf?
Is it worth it to pay extra for 1.5?
Would a Prius or hybrid be a better bet?

Patser

Your commute, mileage and access to a 2nd car makes an EV the ideal choice for you. Having nearby easy access to public chargers is a bonus but don't rely on them the be always free for exactly when you want.

I'm not a leaf expert l, others will probably correct me but I think Leaf 1.5 us a much better option due to a flaw in Leaf 1 battery design that lead to them losing capacity rather quickly (less range over time). Something that was fixed quickly in 1.5 version, more something that was missed in design than a major underlying fault.

Leaf is probably most affordable family sized car in your budget, and best option really. You might stretch to a Zoe on import if you want an alternative

Balmed Out

How much does your partner commute?

from_atozinc

Balmed Out wrote: »

How much does your partner commute?

She doesn’t. Stay at home mummy....

slave1

Can you install a home charger? If so, stretch to a 1.5gen Leaf and you'll be perfect for your driving pattern.
As you're coming from a cost perspective you know yourself that your tax will drop dramatically, your fuel will go to about 10%-15%, your service cost should at least half and you will avoid potential repair bills associated with an aging ICE car (given the car value I assume it's old)…
You'll find that when you're at home your better half will end up using the Leaf for all the school runs etc

Shefwedfan

I posted on other thread. We have a diesel and electric. We bought the electric for a commuter car, just in & out of city centre.

We use it for everything now, it is doing twice the mileage of the diesel. You have a family of 4 so you will have loads of space in any of the electric cars. It might be worth investing a few more quid and getting some decent and then leaving the combustion engine as the long distance car.

Both of us work so unfortunately our diesel is out during the week as well and it kills me sticking in 90 quid or more every week. We would swap to electric as well but a large 7 seater not available yet.

Just something to consider. Apart from that ring up Phil in electric autos. He will sort you out. I bought 2 cars off him and he is a gent.

You have to remember with hybrid, no matter what you do you will always be spending money on fuel, for what you are doing spending money on fuel is nuts....also you will have higher tax and service costs.

from_atozinc

slave1 wrote: »

Can you install a home charger? If so, stretch to a 1.5gen Leaf and you'll be perfect for your driving pattern.
As you're coming from a cost perspective you know yourself that your tax will drop dramatically, your fuel will go to about 10%-15%, your service cost should at least half and you will avoid potential repair bills associated with an aging ICE car (given the car value I assume it's old)…
You'll find that when you're at home your better half will end up using the Leaf for all the school runs etc

I can install a home charger.
Yeah the car is 2006.

Yeah, Tax will drop by 1100. Fuel should drop by 1000 maybe.

Shefwedfan

from_atozinc wrote: »

I can install a home charger.

Then your sorted, I have car 3 years now and used public charging maybe 5 times in those years....

I do all charging at home, the network was awful, is getting better now with private companies coming in.


It is worth noting, at the moment the likes of Ionity are only going to work with VW etc, so Nissan can't connect.

from_atozinc

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Then your sorted, I have car 3 years now and used public charging maybe 5 times in those years....

I do all charging at home, the network was awful, is getting better now with private companies coming in.


It is worth noting, at the moment the likes of Ionity are only going to work with VW etc, so Nissan can't connect.

Oh ok.

How many miles a year would you do? And ballpark how much does it cost using home charging?

Shefwedfan

from_atozinc wrote: »

Oh ok.

How many miles a year would you do? And ballpark how much does it cost using home charging?

Im doing about 16-20k km's. .....between both cars we do 30-40k per year....wife went back to uni for a while do numbers are a bit all over the place now....expect it to increase to 40k+ this year with both of us back on road....hope to have 25k in electric and rest in diesel...would love to be 100% electric


I swapped for A6 which cost about 1400-1600 in diesel, I worked it out one year, I think it was about 200-300 quid on electricity for 20k km's....my bill didn't actually go up as I went onto day/night meter and I swapped everything to come on at nightime. Washing machines etc....


Now I do admit we have fallen back into bad habits and we are up 20 a month on electricity. I have the level pay. But hardly in comparison to the diesel and 90 a month

from_atozinc

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Im doing about 16-20k km's. .....between both cars we do 30-40k per year....wife went back to uni for a while do numbers are a bit all over the place now....expect it to increase to 40k+ this year with both of us back on road....hope to have 25k in electric and rest in diesel...would love to be 100% electric


I swapped for A6 which cost about 1400-1600 in diesel, I worked it out one year, I think it was about 200-300 quid on electricity for 20k km's....my bill didn't actually go up as I went onto day/night meter and I swapped everything to come on at nightime. Washing machines etc....


Now I do admit we have fallen back into bad habits and we are up 20 a month on electricity. I have the level pay. But hardly in comparison to the diesel and 90 a month

Thanks. So me with my less than 10,000 KM a year should work out at about maybe 200 Euro max. Sounds too good to be true !!!

Shefwedfan

from_atozinc wrote: »

Thanks. So me with my less than 10,000 KM a year should work out at about maybe 200 Euro max. Sounds too good to be true !!!

Should be less, you can swap in a day/night meter free of charge. Then you just go to cheapest supplier....you need to be careful over the standing charge and the rates......



Tax is 120, and service cost....well everytime I bring the eGolf they just do some software updates, check it over and send it back....it cost 100 or so last time.....


Hence why you will push all the mileage into it versus the other car. Plus they are so much nicer to drive, I have a rental 162 Focus at the moment, it is shocking to drive compared to the eGolf, horrible

from_atozinc

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Should be less, you can swap in a day/night meter free of charge. Then you just go to cheapest supplier....you need to be careful over the standing charge and the rates......



Tax is 120, and service cost....well everytime I bring the eGolf they just do some software updates, check it over and send it back....it cost 100 or so last time.....


Hence why you will push all the mileage into it versus the other car. Plus they are so much nicer to drive, I have a rental 162 Focus at the moment, it is shocking to drive compared to the eGolf, horrible

I know this is going to sound strange. I just don’t like reversing cameras. Driven cars with them and don’t like them. I prefer the old school ‘beep’ rear parking sensors.

Do all the gen 1.5 just come with the camera scenario? Or do some come with the old school parking sensors?

Shefwedfan

from_atozinc wrote: »

I know this is going to sound strange. I just don’t like reversing cameras. Driven cars with them and don’t like them. I prefer the old school ‘beep’ rear parking sensors.

Do all the gen 1.5 just come with the camera scenario? Or do some come with the old school parking sensors?

Your my sort of person

Camera is pain in the ass and it puts me off, as you say I prefer the beeps and even if camera is in car I wont use it.



No idea on the Leaf, if you up budget the eGolf is beeps for the Gen 1.


The Gen1 I got is camera only

slave1

Up to mid model there is only a camera, no beeps, others can advise if the top model has the beeps (Tekna in the UK)

mobfromcork

To add to some if the points above, the electric becomes the go-to car for any trip here when possible. Our other car is a petrol Saab 9-5 estate which is great for the long journeys but a killer on tax and fuel compared to the leaf. We both have a short commute, around 40km in total each, so the Saab does get driven most days but for any other journeys whoever is doing the most mileage in a day will take the Leaf. (As long as it is within range or not towing).
We switched to the Leaf from an aging petrol Mazda 6. We reckoned we were spending around 150 a month on petrol on average on the Mazda and circa 700 per year for tax so 220ish a month before any servicing etc.
We charge Leaf nearly exclusively at home and cost is between 4 and 9 euro per week using
Night rate electricity depending on mileage we do that week.
Tax is 10 per month. So at worst max 50 euro per month running costs for us but usually less than that.
Our decision wasn't solely based on economics, ecological reasons were taken into account as well (whether you subscribe to that idea or not), but the maths definitely made sense for us. We spent more on the Leaf than any other car previously but it still made financial sense. We only have a 24kw and it hasn't been an issue so far as the commute is short and predictable. When we change the Saab we will definitely look for more range 250km minimum as stopping to charge en route somewhere with smallies and dogs etc can be challenging.

from_atozinc

Thanks. Kinda have 2 cars in my head.

A 2010 Prius.
Or
A gen 1.5 leaf.

Probably both about same
Price to buy. Will save a bit more per year owning the leaf.

Shefwedfan

from_atozinc wrote: »

Thanks. Kinda have 2 cars in my head.

A 2010 Prius.
Or
A gen 1.5 leaf.

Probably both about same
Price to buy. Will save a bit more per year owning the leaf.

Buy the Leaf.....

slave1

from_atozinc wrote: »

Thanks. Kinda have 2 cars in my head.

A 2010 Prius.
Or
A gen 1.5 leaf.

Probably both about same
Price to buy. Will save a bit more per year owning the leaf.

Oh no choice there, get the Leaf, the 2010 is effectively a petrol car now at this stage, battery bound to be well deteriorated

from_atozinc

slave1 wrote: »

Oh no choice there, get the Leaf, the 2010 is effectively a petrol car now at this stage, battery bound to be well deteriorated

But the battery of the leaf will be most likely deteriorated too.

And you can do the usual battery healthy checks on the Prius etc.

Shefwedfan

slave1 wrote: »

Oh no choice there, get the Leaf, the 2010 is effectively a petrol car now at this stage, battery bound to be well deteriorated

Wouldnt say that, havent the Prius done over 250k miles with the battery still working?

A few companies knocking around to regenerate the Prius batteries as well....

For who can afford two cars, one being a battery car is good.

from_atozinc

I’m not overly familiar with prices of the Leaf. As usual in Ireland like with any car, there can be thousands between 2 very similar cars so hard to know what real prices are.

Is it possible to get a gen 1.5 leaf for 8000 Euro?

Shefwedfan

from_atozinc wrote: »

I’m not overly familiar with prices of the Leaf. As usual in Ireland like with any car, there can be thousands between 2 very similar cars.

Is it possible to get a gen 1.5 leaf for 8000 Euro?

It might be worth just ringing Phil, give him your budget and he can normally source if you are not in a rush


https://www.electricautos.ie/vehicles/nissan/leaf/kildare/2315563


That a nice car


When you look at this the above car is great value

https://www.usedcarsni.com/2012-Nissan-LEAF-80Kw-ACENTA-24Kwh-AUTO-248199963?keywords=&make=0&model=0&fuel_type=13&trans_type=0&age_from=0&age_to=0&price_from=0&price_to=0&user_type=0&mileage_to=0&body_style=0&doors=999999&tax_cost=999999&keywords=&location%5B%5D=0&location%5B%5D=0&homepage_search_attr=1&tab_id=0&search_type=1

from_atozinc

Shefwedfan wrote: »

It might be worth just ringing Phil, give him your budget and he can normally source if you are not in a rush


https://www.electricautos.ie/vehicles/nissan/leaf/kildare/2315563


That a nice car


When you look at this the above car is great value

https://www.usedcarsni.com/2012-Nissan-LEAF-80Kw-ACENTA-24Kwh-AUTO-248199963?keywords=&make=0&model=0&fuel_type=13&trans_type=0&age_from=0&age_to=0&price_from=0&price_to=0&user_type=0&mileage_to=0&body_style=0&doors=999999&tax_cost=999999&keywords=&location%5B%5D=0&location%5B%5D=0&homepage_search_attr=1&tab_id=0&search_type=1

Pricing is annoying. All over the place really.

from_atozinc

I am currently in a rented house. Landlord has no problem with installing a power socket. How ever, we plan on moving in the next few months. So the thing is I don’t want to waste the grant installing a home charger at the house I’m in as we will be moving. Would rather use that at the house we move to.

Instead to tie me over, was thinking of installing a simple 3 pin outdoor plug and just using the granny plug to keep me going.

Thoughts? Can you apply for the grand months after buying the car?

Shefwedfan

from_atozinc wrote: »

I am currently in a rented house. Landlord has no problem with installing a power socket. How ever, we plan on moving in the next few months. So the thing is I don’t want to waste the grant installing a home charger at the house I’m in as we will be moving. Would rather use that at the house we move to.

Instead to tie me over, was thinking of installing a simple 3 pin outdoor plug and just using the granny plug to keep me going.

Thoughts? Can you apply for the grand months after buying the car?

Contact SEAI on the grant

External plug will work, just need to make sure the car comes with granny cable as they don’t come as standard with some cars

Shefwedfan

from_atozinc wrote: »

Pricing is annoying. All over the place really.

It is and that’s why i suggest going to the specific dealers as they will let you know what you can get etc....

from_atozinc

What’s the rough price of second hand granny cable?

Batesy

€200

from_atozinc

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Contact SEAI on the grant

External plug will work, just need to make sure the car comes with granny cable as they don’t come as standard with some cars

Any rough idea on cost for an external 3 pin plug?

Shefwedfan

from_atozinc wrote: »

Any rough idea on cost for an external 3 pin plug?

I have seen them advertised at 50 quid


Personally I would doubt the quality of that installation and go to proper electricitian. Better to be safe than sorry

from_atozinc

Shefwedfan wrote: »

I have seen them advertised at 50 quid


Personally I would doubt the quality of that installation and go to proper electricitian. Better to be safe than sorry

But sounds like could be done for maybe 100 Euro.

from_atozinc

In regard to the 1.5 gen leaf from 2013 - I presume at this stage, 6 years on, most will have lost at least 1 bar?

from_atozinc

from_atozinc wrote: »

But sounds like could be done for maybe 100 Euro.

The electrician is the expensive part. Weatherproof outdoor socket from B&Q was less than 20.

And to be complete: Getting out any charging lead to plug in the car can get a bit tedious. I would not have patience to use a granny charger every time when I know there are better alternative, i.e. a permanently available lead in a wall holder.

Personally I would get a proper charger installed and then just take it with you when you move and replace it that time with a 20 quid weatherproof socket DIY. The initial install cost (=electrician) is the same for both.

from_atozinc

samih wrote: »

And to be complete: Getting out any charging lead to plug in the car can get a bit tedious. I would not have patience to use a granny charger every time when I know there are better alternative, i.e. a permanently available lead in a wall holder.

Personally I would get a proper charger installed and then just take it with you when you move and replace it that time with a 20 quid weatherproof socket DIY. The initial install cost (=electrician) is the same for both.

Right. I thought the electrician job for the 3 pin weatherproof would be a lot less etc.

Just means when I move have to pay an electrician again. Don’t like spending money when I don’t have to.

unkel

For a few months, I'd just use the granny cable. Then use the grant to pay for the proper EV charge point in your new home.

Shefwedfan

from_atozinc wrote: »

Right. I thought the electrician job for the 3 pin weatherproof would be a lot less etc.

Just means when I move have to pay an electrician again. Don’t like spending money when I don’t have to.

If you plan on leaving the property I don't see why you would install the charge point


From the time I got mine installed it is the cable which is expensive. If you put that in then you aint bringing it with you.......

from_atozinc

unkel wrote: »

For a few months, I'd just use the granny cable. Then use the grant to pay for the proper EV charge point in your new home.

Thanks you.
I presume the granny cables are waterproof>

If I was to buy the car now and just use the granny cable, could I apply for the grant in a year from now?

from_atozinc

Shefwedfan wrote: »

If you plan on leaving the property I don't see why you would install the charge point


From the time I got mine installed it is the cable which is expensive. If you put that in then you aint bringing it with you.......

Thanks, what cable are you talking of here?

Shefwedfan

from_atozinc wrote: »

Thanks, what cable are you talking of here?

The cable that runs from the fuseboard to the charge point. It is not standard cable and it was expensive. It was about 3 years ago but a thread was on here with the requirements....

from_atozinc

Shefwedfan wrote: »

The cable that runs from the fuseboard to the charge point. It is not standard cable and it was expensive. It was about 3 years ago but a thread was on here with the requirements....

ah ok, thanks. Spoke to an electric car supplier earlier and out of interest asked them a few q's : they said the rough full cost to buy the charge point and pay the electricain etc was about 1100 Euro. seems very expensive, is this true?

Luckylow10

Yes. I paid about 1450. (Standard was 1100) This was because my cable had to be hidden in my house and fitted under patio outside, also a priority switch had to be fitted (169)

Patser

I bought a 2nd hand Rolec on Ebay, and had a local electrician install it for less than €600, then paid him a bit more when he completed all certs as I thought it would look strange on grant application to look for less than €600

Shefwedfan

My electrician installed for 250 and I got charger with car from electric autos :-)

from_atozinc

Lord. I’m some indecisive and pedantic idiot. Hands up.

I have defo ruled out gen 1.
So decided need 2013 gen 1.5. Thought I may get for 8000 Euro. But looks like probably not. Then most likely extra costs of installing home charger.......when the time comes. Probably have to buy granny cable too. More money. Then the whole limited range stuff

Now thinking of a 2010 or so Prius........

unkel

You don't really need a granny cable. I've needed to use mine once in 2.5 years (holiday home)

You can have your home charger installed for free. Buy a nearly new charger, get an electrician to install and this should cost less than €600 (the amount of the grant)

You could buy a 2013 gen 1.5 Leaf from about €9k. Personally I'd pay a little bit more and get one from Phil in electricautos.ie. The car will have been thoroughly checked out by Phil and you'll get a warranty

The range issue remains. You will have to publicly charge on your 200km trip. Twice. If that is only a few times a year and you don't want to charge on the public network, you could take a Gocar for the trip

Shefwedfan

from_atozinc wrote: »

Lord. I’m some indecisive and pedantic idiot. Hands up.

I have defo ruled out gen 1.
So decided need 2013 gen 1.5. Thought I may get for 8000 Euro. But looks like probably not. Then most likely extra costs of installing home charger.......when the time comes. Probably have to buy granny cable too. More money. Then the whole limited range stuff

Now thinking of a 2010 or so Prius........

You will buy the Prius and everytime you go to the petrol pump wish you hadn't bought it

from_atozinc

Shefwedfan wrote: »

You will buy the Prius and everytime you go to the petrol pump wish you hadn't bought it

Could be true. My mileage is 5000 miles a year. Does this make sense to buy a Leaf or am I better off with just a petrol car.

Shefwedfan

from_atozinc wrote: »

Could be true. My mileage is 5000 miles a year. Does this make sense to buy a Leaf or am I better off with just a petrol car.

That's your decision, if it was me and I had your requirement I would buy electric. I would not be buying a combustion engine. Especially when you have another car sitting in driveway. It would be madness to have 2 combustion for such little mileage