Bullying a crime

Would it be possible to make bullying a crime? or is it too hard to define and would it make any difference if it was a crime?

Seth Brundle

Bullying can be anything from physical attacks right through to snide comments.
Too difficult to legislate for IMO.

You could also have a group bully an individual and it becomes one word against many.

Strumms

Harassment IS a crime. I guess you’d need to decipher the difference between ‘bullying’ and ‘harassment’ of which I don’t imagine there is a huge difference if any.

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/1997/act/26/enacted/en/print#sec10

RobbieTheRobber

Strumms wrote: »

Harassment IS a crime. I guess you’d need to decipher the difference between ‘bullying’ and ‘harassment’ of which I don’t imagine there is a huge difference if any.

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/1997/act/26/enacted/en/print#sec10

Came here to post this, a lot of what constitutes bullying is illegal under the above Non-Fatal Offences Against the Person Act, 1997
http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/1997/act/26/enacted/en/print.html

Floppybits

Maybe it is time to start a discussion on making all forms of bullying illegal. From reading accounts of bullying and what people have to go through to get the issue addressed in schools and workplaces is heartbreaking and it seems from reading those accounts that the bullies get away with it because of hoops the victims and their families have to jump through.

As for the bullies of Ana Kreigal I hope they are hanging their heads in shame at how miserable they made that girls life. I feel it is the treatment of Ana that made her vulnerable to those 2 boys.

biko

Then next year we can make it a crime to be mean to others.

MrFresh

biko wrote: »

Then next year we can make it a crime to be mean to others.

Bullying is a serious issue in schools that causes a lot of serious distress to children and has resulted in a number of child suicides. It often does consist of illegal behaviour. And while you might be a big brave fella who can handle people being mean to you, I don't see why that necessitates disparaging the issue of bullying.

Floppybits

biko wrote: »

Then next year we can make it a crime to be mean to others.

Big difference between being mean to someone and bullying.

Anywsy why be mean someone? If you don't like them then don't interact with them.

blade1

Floppybits wrote: »

Maybe it is time to start a discussion on making all forms of bullying illegal. From reading accounts of bullying and what people have to go through to get the issue addressed in schools and workplaces is heartbreaking and it seems from reading those accounts that the bullies get away with it because of hoops the victims and their families have to jump through.

As for the bullies of Ana Kreigal I hope they are hanging. their heads in shame how miserable they made that girls life. I feel it is the treatment of Ana that made her vulnerable to those 2 boys.

FYP

ive seen many, many instances of people of different personality types, egos, drama tolerance, socialisation capabilities, interests, intellects, [whatever] clash with others where one or both decide they have been bullied

its a bad week to defend subtlety here, but the first problem with addressing a 'problem' is defining it and agreeing on the actionable elements

you can't and won't do that with bullying. its a catch-all term that everyone uses for different things

i happen to think that workplace legislation has a usable framework here that screens for the elements that really do constitute targeted/repeated/personal attacks on an individual

but that doesn't allow for some people taking a lot more from a once-off comment/incident than others

so in short, no we cannot ban bullying

AudreyHepburn

biko wrote: »

Then next year we can make it a crime to be mean to others.

Clearly you’ve never been bullied. As someone who was the victim of sustained bullying from 2nd Class to 2nd Year by the same girl you can take it from there is a world of difference between being mean to someone and bullying them.

Severe sustained bullying should unquestionably be a crime. The long term effects can be devastating.

I was lucky in a way - my bully never physically hurt me but every little thing she said and did was another chip out of my confidence and it’s taken me years to build it back up again. Only now in my early 30s do I really feel confident in and comfortable with myself.

AudreyHepburn

AudreyHepburn wrote: »

Clearly you’ve never been bullied.

this is a very bad start to a response on a topic like this

sorry for your troubles besides, that is horrible to hear.

AudreyHepburn

Deleted User wrote: »

this is a very bad start to a response on a topic like this

sorry for your troubles besides, that is horrible to hear.

Why? I was only making the point that if you equate bullying with simply being mean then that suggests to me you’ve never been through it.

It wasn’t an insult or an attempt to bait. It was an observation on what that poster said not the topic itself.

If I’ve offended you somehow then I apologize but it was not my intent.

Alun

AudreyHepburn wrote: »

Clearly you’ve never been bullied. As someone who was the victim of sustained bullying from 2nd Class to 2nd by the same girl you can take it from there is a world of difference between being mean to someone and bullying them.

Indeed, and as someone who was bullied myself at school, albeit many years ago, I can testify that it can have long lasting effects.

The big difference between just "being mean to someone" and bullying is the difference between a one-off event and a sustained onslaught, with the bully deriving pleasure from seeing their victim's response to what they're doing.

It doesn't really matter what form the attack takes, physical or mental, everybody is different, and everybody, even the "tough guys" on here who claim it's a load of nonsense and people should just toughen up, has their weak spot. Bullies enjoy finding that weak spot and exploiting it for their own twisted pleasure.

gozunda

Seth Brundle wrote: »

Bullying can be anything from physical attacks right through to snide comments.
Too difficult to legislate for IMO.

You could also have a group bully an individual and it becomes one word against many.

No bullying is defined and is very specific. For example in the workplace.

What is Bullying?
The Health and Safety Authority’s definition is that it is:

"repeated inappropriate behaviour, direct or indirect, whether verbal, physical or otherwise, conducted by one or more persons against another or others, at the place of work and/or in the course of employment, which could reasonably be regarded as undermining the individual‘s right to dignity at work."

An isolated incident of the behaviour described in this definition may be an affront to dignity at work but as a once off incident is not considered to be bullying.

gozunda

RobbieTheRobber wrote: »

Came here to post this, a lot of what constitutes bullying is illegal under the above Non-Fatal Offences Against the Person Act, 1997
http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/1997/act/26/enacted/en/print.html

A friend who is a solicitor says that statute would be largely irrelevant to most of traditional types of bullying and that that act is mainly used for stalking or targeting someone by means of pestering, besetting or watching

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/1997/act/26/enacted/en/print#sec10

The act does not mention bullying

There was a move a few years ago to update the legislation to make it more inclusive afaik.

AudreyHepburn

AudreyHepburn wrote: »

Why? I was only making the point that if you equate bullying with simply being mean then that suggests to me you’ve never been through it.

It wasn’t an insult or an attempt to bait. It was an observation on what that poster said not the topic itself.

If I’ve offended you somehow then I apologize but it was not my intent.

no, look, not at all, no need to apologize for my part

but i really do think you cant project onto others what their experience of bullying (or any trauma/event) might be simply because they hold a different opinion on it

BrokenArrows

Floppybits wrote: »

Big difference between being mean to someone and bullying.

Anywsy why be mean someone? If you don't like them then don't interact with them.

Ironically not interacting with someone is a form of bullying.

Mrs OBumble

Floppybits wrote: »

Big difference between being mean to someone and bullying.

Anywsy why be mean someone? If you don't like them then don't interact with them.

But that's excluding them. Which is inside the definition of bullying.

Bigbagofcans

I think it should be made a crime. It is detrimental to young people's lives and mental health, not to mention bullying in some cases leads to suicide.

There should be a ban on mobile phones in schools and an enforced restriction on young people on social media.

gozunda

[Deleted User] wrote: »

no, look, not at all, no need to apologize for my part

but i really do think you cant project onto others what their experience of bullying (or any trauma/event) might be simply because they hold a different opinion on it

I think that may be one of the issues tbh

Currently 'bullying' is not a criminal offence even where the victim suffers actual, emotional or psychological harm as defined by professional such as a doctor or other specialist etc

Prior to the 18th-century in England and Ireland physical assault was viewed by the authorities not as a criminal breach of the peace, but rather as a civil action between two parties in dispute. The onus therefore was on the victim to take personal legal action against the perpetrator for compensation only and only if they could afford to do so.

Now assault is a criminal offence

Bullying is not. The only remedy which is currently available to most victims of bullying is to take personal legal action against perpetrators or the employers if they can afford to do so - the same as happened to victims of physical assault prior to the 1800s

Seth Brundle

Out of curiosity, if we were to make bullying a crime, what kind of punishment do you think might be applicable to a bully under 10?

MrFresh

Seth Brundle wrote: »

Out of curiosity, if we were to make bullying a crime, what kind of punishment do you think might be applicable to a bully under 10?

If we're talking about child bullying I don't think punishment alone would be sufficient. You'd have to include some kind of reform and include the parents.

MrFresh

MrFresh wrote: »

If we're talking about child bullying I don't think punishment alone would be sufficient. You'd have to include some kind of reform and include the parents.

but not for murder, eh

MrFresh

Deleted User wrote: »

but not for murder, eh

Are you equating murder to bullying?

AudreyHepburn

Deleted User wrote: »

no, look, not at all, no need to apologize for my part

but i really do think you cant project onto others what their experience of bullying (or any trauma/event) might be simply because they hold a different opinion on it

Look it was only an observation. I’ve obviously struck a nerve and I’m sorry for that but I’m not going to take back what I said.

If someone has truly been bullied then they would know better than to refer to as being mean and would wholeheartedly agree that harsher consequences are badly needed.

gozunda

Seth Brundle wrote: »

Out of curiosity, if we were to make bullying a crime, what kind of punishment do you think might be applicable to a bully under 10?

That would be up to legislature to determine. It isn't an obstacle to such a change tbh.

AudreyHepburn

AudreyHepburn wrote: »

Look it was only an observation. I’ve obviously struck a nerve and I’m sorry for that but I’m not going to take back what I said.

If someone has truly been bullied then they would know better than to refer to as being mean and would wholeheartedly agree that harsher consequences are badly needed.

I promise you havent, i just think its a logical fallacy of particular prominence

and you did it again

Apiarist

If bullying is a crime, then there should be an investigation for any incident. Imagine a group of kids ostracizing another kid and calling him names, maybe kicking his backback into dirt and so on, but not actually visibly hurting him. So this kid decided to stand up for himself and slaps one of his tormentors. Ooooh, now he is a bully, let lock him up, right? Or would you get a team of Garda investigators to establish the facts?

MrFresh

victor8600 wrote: »

If bullying is a crime, then there should be an investigation for any incident. Imagine a group of kids ostracizing another kid and calling him names, maybe kicking his backback into dirt and so on, but not actually visibly hurting him. So this kid decided to stand up for himself and slaps one of his tormentors. Ooooh, now he is a bully, let lock him up, right? Or would you get a team of Garda investigators to establish the facts?

Well, no. That would be self defence, which allows for the defence of property as well as people. Most bullying does actually fall under criminal law in some form, be it criminal damage, assault or harassment. But these are serious offences and it might be better to have a lesser offence that would allow for less serious incidents between children.

Strumms

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

But that's excluding them. Which is inside the definition of bullying.

I might not wish to talk with or spend time with person A. I have come to this decision due to the fact that I genuinely find them rude and annoying and we don’t have much in common . Am I excluding or am I acting in the interests of my own mental health and peace of mind ?

If someone doesn’t want to interact with me for the same or similar reason that’s ok with me.