Western Rail Corridor

Frozen Veg

A public consultation survey on the Western Rail corridor which would join the lines at Claremorris-Tuam-Athenry. Have your say whether positive or negative.

https://emea.focusvisi...elfserve/214c/190513

Personally think it would be a great addition to the West. Could get the train from Galway all the way through to Westport and serviced towns. Also providing link ups to Dublin and other lines.

Lord Glentoran

Frozen Veg wrote: »

A public consultation survey on the Western Rail corridor which would join the lines at Claremorris-Tuam-Athenry. Have your say whether positive or negative.

https://emea.focusvisi...elfserve/214c/190513

Personally think it would be a great addition to the West. Could get the train from Galway all the way through to Westport and serviced towns. Also providing link ups to Dublin and other lines.

Indeed, but just wait for the queue of posters who will say this must NORT happen. 5..4..3..2..1...

Either that or this thread will be closed.

Del.Monte

Frozen Veg wrote: »

A public consultation survey on the Western Rail corridor which would join the lines at Claremorris-Tuam-Athenry. Have your say whether positive or negative.

https://emea.focusvisi...elfserve/214c/190513

Personally think it would be a great addition to the West. Could get the train from Galway all the way through to Westport and serviced towns. Also providing link ups to Dublin and other lines.

Link doesn't work.

railer201

Del.Monte wrote: »

Link doesn't work.

Try this - https://emea.focusvision.com/survey/selfserve/214c/190513#?

intellectual dosser

Survey completed.

As we look towards our 2030 and 2050 climate change targets I think the more rail possibilities the better, but if it costs the exchequer a lot of money to rebuild and then a lot of money to run then you'd have to imagine the capital would be better served elsewhere in chasing out targets. Have IE produced cost estimates for restoring the lines in both phases?

The Limerick - Galway line is a good example of 'if you build it they will come', but it still feels like a shot in the dark?

L1011

The Limerick Galway line is vastly below it's predicted numbers. We built it, they took the X51 bus

intellectual dosser

OK, I was going off this IT article saying passenger numbers on Phase 1 Ennis - Athenry grew 288% over the seven years.

I don't know what the forecasts were in the beginning, and again that seems to be where we're at now with Phases 2 and 3, a lack of forecast numbers.

L1011

The better numbers given are Galway-Limerick; Ennis-Athenry itself is pathetically below target. The new-ish Oranmore Station has made a decent impact on the figures; it is not on the reopened section.

intellectual dosser

Do you have these numbers, forecast vs actual on any of the sectors?

Doing further searching and I find this Connacht Tribune article from last September saying passenger numbers on Limerick - Galway are 353,000 vs a business case of 200,000 in 2010.

I'm starting to sound like I'd be in favour of Phases 2 and 3, but really I think we all need understand costs and returns before anyone can make an informed decision. Obviously plenty of emotionally driven opinions going around.

L1011

The 200k five years on business case was for the reinstated section, not the existing sections. They have been fudging the figures by merging in journeys on the existing sections to hide how badly its been doing, but an FOI got the real one of 137k ten years on

https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=110368733&postcount=906

XPS_Zero

If the folk out west wanna do it the proper way like us in the East with our Busconnects consultation they should demand that all those straight lines get bent into branches that serve Marys farmhouse and Joes dairy farm because Joe is blind and the Irish Times says if a blind person is mildly inconvenienced by a PT project the entire project must be scrapped because IT'S DISCRIMINATION I TELLS YA!


Then all the local councilors and TDs can start making up outright lies that they pulled str8 out of their asses to whip people up into a frenzy of opposition.
Hmmm...how to pander though when the locals out west WANT the WRC you ask? Oh have no fear! You blame the *say it with me* ''dem f---ers UP DERE in Dubin!"..we have the Luas afterall...we have the Luas...which is, apparently, an argument....sorry sorry public life is making me bitter...I think I'm starting to hate the Irish people and all their representatives....

Greaney

L1011 wrote: »

The better numbers given are Galway-Limerick; Ennis-Athenry itself is pathetically below target. The new-ish Oranmore Station has made a decent impact on the figures; it is not on the reopened section.

I'm under the impression that the rail is way above target. I use that train and it's well busy.

Furthermore, I've counted the numbers getting off in Athenry at 9:05am from Limerick, they're more than 27 per train, about 70% are school kids, they can't drive and they're not coming from as far as Gort. There's no bus from Craughwell to Athenry. The train is the reason I (and many others) moved to Athenry. It's also the reason my sister, who became disabled, was able to move out to us. She can no longer drive and needs to live with family, and have good public transport. Athenry has a huge student population who don't drive. We build rail for the future... also, the train takes bikes for free

L1011

You've just linked figures that demonstrate it is wildly below target. Go look at the business case for the line.

Del.Monte

The so called WRC is outside of the Greater Dublin Area ergo it should be closed down.

Greaney

Ballyglunin Railway Restoration Project are doing loads of event for Heritage week

Thursday 22nd of August from 10-6
Ballyglunin Station


Bats of Ballyglunin 9pm – 10pm
At 9pm Batwoman comes to Ballyglunin – Learn about the local bat varieties and dispel the myths associated with our furry friends. Hot chocolate will be provided for those brave enough to join!

Other activities we have planned for the day include:
• Memory Train - We often find people have their own memories of the station. On this day we want to capture some audio recordings of these stories. If you have a story, whether it’s simple, personal or funny, please let us know so we would like to preserve it!
This can be done on the day, in a quiet corner, or it can be arranged for another time.
• Purchase Jams, pickles and preserves by Ability West on sale
• Art exhibition by local artist Nora ZolzerBryce
This is a free, plastic free, sweet free event. This is an event that will appeal to all ages.
For more information please contact our PRO, Leonie Finn on 0867328848 or leonief@ymail.com

galwaytt

Greaney wrote: »

Ballyglunin Railway Restoration Project are doing loads of event for Heritage week

Thursday 22nd of August from 10-6
Ballyglunin Station


Bats of Ballyglunin 9pm – 10pm
At 9pm Batwoman comes to Ballyglunin – Learn about the local bat varieties and dispel the myths associated with our furry friends. Hot chocolate will be provided for those brave enough to join!

Other activities we have planned for the day include:
• Memory Train - We often find people have their own memories of the station. On this day we want to capture some audio recordings of these stories. If you have a story, whether it’s simple, personal or funny, please let us know so we would like to preserve it!
This can be done on the day, in a quiet corner, or it can be arranged for another time.
• Purchase Jams, pickles and preserves by Ability West on sale
• Art exhibition by local artist Nora ZolzerBryce
This is a free, plastic free, sweet free event. This is an event that will appeal to all ages.
For more information please contact our PRO, Leonie Finn on 0867328848 or leonief@ymail.com

On a Thursday ?
A weekday ?

Do they not want anyone to attend - 'cos if that's the target, they're on to a winner.

galwaytt

L1011 wrote: »

The better numbers given are Galway-Limerick; Ennis-Athenry itself is pathetically below target. The new-ish Oranmore Station has made a decent impact on the figures; it is not on the reopened section.

Craughwell or Athenry - Galway would do much better if it was priced fairly.

The equivalent journey (15 mins) from Clonsilla is 1/3 the price. But sure, gotta keep the M50 clientele happy and screw the rest.

tabbey

galwaytt wrote: »

On a Thursday ?
A weekday ?

Do they not want anyone to attend - 'cos if that's the target, they're on to a winner.

This is heritage week, there are events on every day, throughout the state.

Greaney

galwaytt wrote: »

On a Thursday ?
A weekday ?

Do they not want anyone to attend - 'cos if that's the target, they're on to a winner.

Heritage week is the same time every year... the week before children goes back to school. It's been the same week for years, and it's not been a 'failure'. Families do their last 'hooray' on this week. Also, many folk take their holidays in August, so they may not be local.

Greaney

galwaytt wrote: »

On a Thursday ?
A weekday ?

Do they not want anyone to attend - 'cos if that's the target, they're on to a winner.

So I popped down. Fairly busy, a fair few volunteers serving tea in the pop up tea rooms (Teenagers etc). I attended the gardening talk to a full room. Parking was pretty busy They had the film playing. There were childrens colouring area and I chatted to folk. My sister and nephew had a nice day. Weather was very good and children played outside

Yup, it was a nice turn out. I was there after lunch for a couple of hours, I'd say they had over 50 people between 2-4. it was going on till 6 and then there's the bat walk at night.

I talked to the folk in Ballyglunin about what they wanted. They have students struggling to get to college in Galway and school in Athenry (don't drive, too young, etc.). There are no buses that will run the route. If there was a train many would like to be one car households (like in Athenry). Most of them work in Galway City and the commute means most folk have to have a second car which costs about €4-6k a year where as a yearly train ticket is less than €1.5k. They believe mass transit it in the best interest of the community.

The the Post office closed down so older residents need transit to the nearest town with a post office (Athenry or Tuam) and the fire officer closed down the glamping camp, so their one tourist attraction is gone. They also honestly didn't see themselves as a tourist hot spot. They knew the station would be too much facility for Irish rail to use all of it as a ticket station so the plans for that were very varied, from a hot desk centre to a community hall. I think they were very realistic about the communities needs.

Interestingly, as I drove there, I saw a cycle track all the way from Abbeyknockmoy to the turn off to Ballyglunin (about 4km) on the Roscommon road. 2km down that road and you come to the bridge with the river, and then the railway. They river looks fairly easy flowing that runs through Ballyglunin (blueway?) and if they linked the cycle-track on the Roscommon road, they're would be other options for a greenway/blueway trail that don't involve ripping up the rail!!

Greaney

I had long wondered where folk got their impression about the numbers being so low on phase one of the Western Rail Corridor Between Galway & Limerick. I've seen a huge jump in figures in the last two years. I've talked to Iarnrod Eireann staff and they too say it's growing bit by bit.

I know this won't convince people rail is worth it because the conviction for the rail to be replaced by a greenway is so strong that plan 'b' or 'c' is out of the question, but since traffic is moving at 4mph in Galway...

...this was the train departing Athenry to go to Limerick just after Lunch today.... plenty of students. I imagine they don't drive....

ShaneC1600

Would anyone know who did the original business case for the WRC? Also alot of people state a review carried out previously returned a 100/6 business but I can never find that report, any idea where this report might be found?
Thanks.

dowlingm

ShaneC1600 wrote: »

Would anyone know who did the original business case for the WRC? Also alot of people state a review carried out previously returned a 100/6 business but I can never find that report, any idea where this report might be found?
Thanks.

You’re probably making a common mistake of looking for that stuff in non-fiction shelves.

Greaney

Well done to the Ballyglunin Train Station Group. A sold out event with 'Polar Express'.
https://www.facebook.com/events/2585540961532901/

Meanwhile, a meeting regarding the Western Rail Corridor in Athenry next week...
https://www.facebook.com/events/2336790123301860/

ezstreet5

ShaneC1600 wrote: »

Would anyone know who did the original business case for the WRC? Also alot of people state a review carried out previously returned a 100/6 business but I can never find that report, any idea where this report might be found?
Thanks.

That metric was quoted by Minister Ciarán Cannon. However, I don't believe it pertains to any actual analysis or report. That is, his numbers are made up out of thin air. You might ask Minister Cannon to provide the source for his data, but I'm willing to bet that there is no source whatsoever.

ShaneC1600

ezstreet5 wrote: »

That metric was quoted by Minister Ciarán Cannon. However, I don't believe it pertains to any actual analysis or report. That is, his numbers are made up out of thin air. You might ask Minister Cannon to provide the source for his data, but I'm willing to bet that there is no source whatsoever.

I actually did ask the Minister, a few times and the result was to be banned from the Facebook page! He has some fantastic statistics but never a reference!

metrovick001

Ciaran Cannon is as anti-railway as can be (for a PD / FG td), that is a fact.
As long as people like him are involved there will be no progress whatsoever unfortunately.

Jamie2k9

Greaney wrote: »

I had long wondered where folk got their impression about the numbers being so low on phase one of the Western Rail Corridor Between Galway & Limerick. I've seen a huge jump in figures in the last two years. I've talked to Iarnrod Eireann staff and they too say it's growing bit by bit.

I know this won't convince people rail is worth it because the conviction for the rail to be replaced by a greenway is so strong that plan 'b' or 'c' is out of the question, but since traffic is moving at 4mph in Galway...

...this was the train departing Athenry to go to Limerick just after Lunch today.... plenty of students. I imagine they don't drive....

Jump in figures but also a jump in losses, IE have slashed fares when every other route saw fares rise. Agree or not the business case for the route was weak plus the significant failure by IE and others who constructed the line.

Tuam-Galway will never appeal to commuters having to reverse en route plus Limerick-Claremorris is a non runner.

Del.Monte

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

Jump in figures but also a jump in losses, IE have slashed fares when every other route saw fares rise. Agree or not the business case for the route was weak plus the significant failure by IE and others who constructed the line.

Tuam-Galway will never appeal to commuters having to reverse en route plus Limerick-Claremorris is a non runner.

Why would Tuam-Galway involve reversing en route as the junction with the Tuam line faces the Galway direction?

metrovick001

ZERO marketing, ZERO Jamie.
It actually amazing numbers are as high as they are considering.

Del.Monte

metrovick001 wrote: »

ZERO marketing, ZERO Jamie.
It actually amazing numbers are as high as they are considering.

A bit like the Rosslare line so.

Jamie2k9

Del.Monte wrote: »

Why would Tuam-Galway involve reversing en route as the junction with the Tuam line faces the Galway direction?

Well put it this way,

IE are not going to run a separate train between Tuam/Galway, you could never justify the financials for such a service when you are working from a very low volume of potential customers. Just like they will not do Limerick/Tuam. All trains will be via Athenry like it or not.

ZERO marketing, ZERO Jamie.
It actually amazing numbers are as high as they are considering.

It shouldn't need marketing. Numbers are reasonable well but it's still just around 40 passengers per day across typically 10 trains.

Geuze

I assumed, if the WRC ever does re-open, that services will be Ballina to GY, and that the other Mayo service would be Westport to Dublin.

These would cross in Claremorris, allowing transfers.

metrovick001

Numbers are reasonable well but it's still just around 40 passengers per day - ummm, ok. I thought a few more skulls might make things a little more convincing.

Isambard

Geuze wrote: »

I assumed, if the WRC ever does re-open, that services will be Ballina to GY, and that the other Mayo service would be Westport to Dublin.

These would cross in Claremorris, allowing transfers.

good theory but bear in mind they took off another service to find the resources to re-open Ennis to Athenry,

Lord Glentoran

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

Well put it this way,

IE are not going to run a separate train between Tuam/Galway, you could never justify the financials for such a service when you are working from a very low volume of potential customers. Just like they will not do Limerick/Tuam. All trains will be via Athenry like it or not.



It shouldn't need marketing. Numbers are reasonable well but it's still just around 40 passengers per day across typically 10 trains.

When proved wrong, bluster!!

Isambard

all trains would be via Athenry, that doesn't involve a reversal but it will , I suspect, entail a change.

Hopefully it would be timetabled to connect to a Dublin or Limerick train, probably too much to hope the signalling will be changed to eliminate a wait by running into the opposite platform

Del.Monte

Isambard wrote: »

good theory but bear in mind they took off another service to find the resources to re-open Ennis to Athenry,

What service was taken off to re-open Ennis/Athenry. If you're referring to Waterford/Rosslare the little saved by that wouldn't have gone far.

Isambard

Del.Monte wrote: »

What service was taken off to re-open Ennis/Athenry. If you're referring to Waterford/Rosslare the little saved by that wouldn't have gone far.

the rolling stock?

Jamie2k9

Lord Glentoran wrote: »

When proved wrong, bluster!!

I won't be proved wrong...

What service was taken off to re-open Ennis/Athenry. If you're referring to Waterford/Rosslare the little saved by that wouldn't have gone far.

The point is closing a labour intensive loss making line and opening a new line with automated signalling, crossings etc and it still loses millions more per year than Waterford-Rosslare did.

Geuze

Isambard wrote: »

all trains would be via Athenry, that doesn't involve a reversal but it will , I suspect, entail a change.

Hopefully it would be timetabled to connect to a Dublin or Limerick train, probably too much to hope the signalling will be changed to eliminate a wait by running into the opposite platform

If the WRC is ever re-opened, the GY to Athenry should be re-doubled first, before the WRC is re-opened.

Nobody travelling from Mayo should have to change in Athenry, all trains from Ballina/Claremorris/Tuam run through to GY.

Isambard

Geuze wrote: »

If the WRC is ever re-opened, the GY to Athenry should be re-doubled first, before the WRC is re-opened.

Nobody travelling from Mayo should have to change in Athenry, all trains from Ballina/Claremorris/Tuam run through to GY.

they are only vaguely discussing Tuam to Athenry currently . There's no likelihood of Tuam to Claremorris being considered even in the medium term. No point worrying about passengers from Mayo having to change at this time..

ShaneC1600

The junior minister for a greenway along the rest of the WRC with his fantastic statistics must be pleasantly happy with the reuse of his incredibly inaccurate statistic of just under 40 people a day using the WRC at present. Amazing how one persons misuse of a statistic can be reused over and over on every forum.

Jamie2k9

ShaneC1600 wrote: »

The junior minister for a greenway along the rest of the WRC with his fantastic statistics must be pleasantly happy with the reuse of his incredibly inaccurate statistic of just under 40 people a day using the WRC at present. Amazing how one persons misuse of a statistic can be reused over and over on every forum.

Prove its inaccurate as if you do the stats between Ennis and Athenry and you will come up with the same figure. Including Ennis/Limerick and Athenry/Galway is just a way to make the line look like top its doing well. Those passengers would exist without WRC opening.

ShaneC1600

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

Prove its inaccurate as if you do the stats between Ennis and Athenry and you will come up with the same figure. Including Ennis/Limerick and Athenry/Galway is just a way to make the line look like top its doing well. Those passengers would exist without WRC opening.

I don't need to prove anything because I'm not stating a figure, he did and was wrong, other followers of his did on here and are wrong also. I have reviewed the figures and see where they went wrong. You can do the same. I can tell you 40 people a day is wrong.

intellectual dosser

I suspect Jamie2k9 may be taking his synopsis from the 2019 Heavy Rail report that states that between Craughwell, Ardrahan and Gort stations 44 passengers embarked per day.

That figure doesnt factor in passengers who alight at those three stations mentioned above (42). It also wouldn't consider passengers who embark in Ennis for example and disembark in Oranmore in the wider context of the WRCs feasibility.

Jamie is obviously welcome to clarify otherwise.

Isambard

i took it to mean 40 passengers per train, which is better but merely a bus load.

ShaneC1600

Isambard wrote: »

i took it to mean 40 passengers per train, which is better but merely a bus load.

Yes, but its 10 times the stated figure which is 10 buses.
I really think that figure has been totally misrepresented anyways. The train is full at the times that suit the commuter both ways, its not like every train in the country is full all day. I understand its the worst they could make the numbers sound and it really stuck, so much so that people now think it was 40 people a day (maybe because a Junior Ministor said it)! If Irish Rail actually wanted more people to use the train there would be improved timetables.

Jamie2k9

The Ennis to Athenry carried 138,000 in 2018 (source IE).

Irish Rail operate 363 days and there is 5 services Mon-Sat, 4 Sun & Public Holidays. I would make it 60 days of a Sunday/PH service and 303 of Mon-Sat service in 2018. Therefore a total 3,510 scheduled train services giving a average load per train of 39.3 passengers so 39 passengers. This does not include the few extra for Galway Races specials which would bring the 39 figure slightly lower.

Average weekday loads Mon-Sat 2,340 (390 x 6) and Sun 312.

ShaneC1600

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

The Ennis to Athenry carried 138,000 in 2018 (source IE).

Irish Rail operate 363 days and there is 5 services Mon-Sat, 4 Sun & Public Holidays. I would make it 60 days of a Sunday/PH service and 303 of Mon-Sat service in 2018. Therefore a total 3,510 scheduled train services giving a average load per train of 39.3 passengers so 39 passengers. This does not include the few extra for Galway Races specials which would bring the 39 figure slightly lower.

Average weekday loads Mon-Sat 2,340 (390 x 6) and Sun 312.

Exactly, that is the per train load average. If all modes of transport used a per unit average there would be many people left waiting at all the stops every morning and evening. It is not a fair reflection of the usage imo. 138,000 passengers a year between two towns sounds better

Isambard

it must mean some trains are virtually empty and serve little useful purpose.