Minor Tournament Discussion 2019/20

Joe_ Public

Now that new season is underway, thought it was just as well to start the new thread going. And what better way to get us started than a story illustrating Shaun Murphy's determination to hit the ground running for the new season:

http://www.worldsnooker.com/murphy-enters-open-championship-qualifying/

DuckSlice

Be good to see him qualify, but like he said himself its a big ask. The likes of Paul Dunne could be competing at the same qualifiers.

AllForIt

Good thinking Murphy. Now he can work as a commentator on the Snooker AND the golf!

Inviere

Just a suggestion, but I think it'd be great to have a thread for each tournament, even the minor ones.

Joe_ Public

Inviere wrote: »

Just a suggestion, but I think it'd be great to have a thread for each tournament, even the minor ones.

See no reason why not. Might start a thread for world cup next week, should be a decent enough event though sad to see no Ronnie, Judd or Selby in it. Ken and Fergal still doing the honours for us.

ArmaniJeanss

Inviere wrote: »

Just a suggestion, but I think it'd be great to have a thread for each tournament, even the minor ones.

I think I started this Minor Tournament one in 2017/18 when there was very little discussion at all outside the 3 big events.
Forum seems much busier now thankfully so there is probably more events that can hold their own thread.
I think this is still probably useful for the Latvian Open, German Masters type events that would probably only have 2 or 3 posts.

It works well enough in the darts forum anyway.

Inviere

ArmaniJeanss wrote: »

I think I started this Minor Tournament one in 2017/18 when there was very little discussion at all outside the 3 big events.
Forum seems much busier now thankfully so there is probably more events that can hold their own thread.
I think this is still probably useful for the Latvian Open, German Masters type events that would probably only have 2 or 3 posts.

It works well enough in the darts forum anyway.

I find I miss out on minor tournaments simply because I wasn't aware they were on (my fault I know). I feel if there were threads for each tournament, it might mean better visibility/more chat, rather than people just seeing a catch-all thread being bumped every now and again.

El_Duderino 09

http://www.worldsnooker.com/tournaments-broadcasters-2019-20/

Link to the snooker newsletter which gives details of where to watch the upcoming tournaments.

Some on Eurosport

First one on quest is the English open in October

Arthur Daley

No mention of the champion of champions there. Event is still due to be on in early November, before Belfast. When the season gets going fully for UK FTA tv.

Joe_ Public

It may not be listed as its not a World Snooker event, rather a Matchroom one, so i'd guess it'll be still on itv as it usually is.

Arthur Daley

I see Joe Swail has packed it in on the professional tour.

Twice a semi finalist at the Crucible, which brought him to World no. 10 in 2002. Seemed a nice enough lad Joe

https://www.bbc.com/sport/snooker/48933844

ArmaniJeanss

The low-key Riga Masters is on Eurosport over this weekend.
Arguably the most interesting part of it happened the night before, when a flight from London to Riga got cancelled leading to about 15 players missing the event.

https://metro.co.uk/2019/07/26/riga-masters-chaos-multiple-players-withdraw-due-flight-delays-10465355/

Joe_ Public

Milkins explained why the players tend to leave it until the day before a tournament to travel, writing: ‘With the exception of the World Champs and Chinese events(for obvious reasons) think you’ll find none of the top players ever go two days before nowadays! Just pure bad luck what happened tonight ‘Another reason not booking two days before is losing a days practice and another £100 a night hotel,with World Snooker giving a measly £300 towards losers of withheld games it don’t make sense to go to early.’


Interesting insight into players' mentality i think. £300 for the withheld games seems positively skinflint. That's almost certainly a deficit for most guys unlucky enough to have drawn a Selby or Robertson in the first round draw.

zuutroy

Watching the Trump match on Eurosport. Less than 20 spectators I'd say.

Joe_ Public

zuutroy wrote: »

Watching the Trump match on Eurosport. Less than 20 spectators I'd say.

Lot of empty seats for Ding and Zhao yesterday too, if a match like that cant fill a Chinese arena, nothing can. People say its bracingly high ticket prices mostly to blame and may well be the case, remember half empty arenas across the board being the case for the olympics back in 2008 as well.

zuutroy

Was watching him again this morning and there was about 5 people there. He played an amazing positional shot and not a murmur.
There's an awful lot of unsold £99 'premium' tickets for early rounds at the Crucible next year as things currently stand...Row D on the first Monday morning costs more than I paid for row G for the conclusion of the semi-finals! Be interesting to see if they're full come game time.

ArmaniJeanss

Interesting quartet of semi-finalists, with the cream rising to the top.

Mark Allen and Shaun Murphy play later, both showing a return to some sort of form.

And another man on the comeback trail Mark Selby is currently playing Judd Trump, Trump leading 5-3 (b.o. 17)

zuutroy

Trump is going to win every tournament. Ridiculous standard. Ridiculous.

Inviere

zuutroy wrote: »

Trump is going to win every tournament. Ridiculous standard. Ridiculous.

He has near-stupid levels of talent and ability. I do wonder though can he actually keep himself in that mode for the rest of his career, or will he burn out at some stage? The star that shines twice as bright etc etc...

El_Duderino 09

Inviere wrote: »

He has near-stupid levels of talent and ability. I do wonder though can he actually keep himself in that mode for the rest of his career, or will he burn out at some stage? The star that shines twice as bright etc etc...

That's a completely unreasonable question. Of course he won't maintain such a high mode of play for the rest of his career. He'll probably have pranks and troughs just like all other players, and just like he has done through his career so far.

Let's not wait until he has a bit of poor form and start asking "uuh, has Trump lost it?". And we he has a run of good form to be amazed that he's playing better than ever When it looked like his career was over. That's just the narrative the snooker pundits have to weave into their analysis because narrative is better than hard facts.

Let's just expect him to be similar to all other players and have periods of good and bad form, periods where he's dedicated to practice and living for his job and periods where he has other things going on in his life and his job takes a back seat and form dips.

He's had all this talent all his career and didn't win a world championship until now. Let's just wait and see how he does.

Inviere

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

That's a completely unreasonable question. Of course he won't maintain such a high mode of play for the rest of his career. He'll probably have pranks and troughs just like all other players, and just like he has done through his career so far.

Well, obviously.

He's had all this talent all his career and didn't win a world championship until now. Let's just wait and see how he does.

I think it's fair to say Trump took a massive step forward last year. He has always had the talent, but he has embraced practicing a lot more by all accounts, and it has paid off big time. I'd say he's finally at the level he could have been at several years ago.

My question was more so related to can he maintain this near-supernatural level of ability up enough to win big, break some records, and become of of the greats, before the inevitable happens. Or is it possible that he drops off a cliff, sooner than perhaps he would have.

El_Duderino 09

Inviere wrote: »

Well, obviously.



I think it's fair to say Trump took a massive step forward last year. He has always had the talent, but he has embraced practicing a lot more by all accounts, and it has paid off big time. I'd say he's finally at the level he could have been at several years ago.

My question was more so related to can he maintain this near-supernatural level of ability up enough to win big, break some records, and become of of the greats, before the inevitable happens. Or is it possible that he drops off a cliff, sooner than perhaps he would have.

Yeah fair enough. I just can't stand the usual media narrative around these things being mixed up with the analysis.

I get that it's their job to apply a story whether it exists or not and it boils my p1ss.

Joe_ Public

My own view is that this is a fairly mediocre spell at the top of the sport in terms of quality. That Higgins, Williams and O'Sullivan are all still in the top 5 - O'Sullivan No.1 - just tells you how disappointing the following generation has been, for a variety of reasons i would imagine. Sure, they are all time greats of the game, but to be still bossing in their mid-40s, i mean where are all the young whizz-kids looking to topple them from their perch? Trump has got there finally, but boy did it take him some time to get there? Had an inkling he might struggle a bit early doors this season, but to be fair has been playing some great stuff this week, so interesting to see how far he can sustain it through the season. I hope he does, the game needs a new star and hopefully to drag on those behind him, but the commentator who said during play this morning that Trump can bring the sport "to new levels" over the next 10 years is just getting carried away, like a lot of media. What can Trump do that either Hendry or O'Sullivan didn't do before him? Another 6 world titles would be asking a lot, but you never know i suppose.

zuutroy

New levels in terms of skill, if not achievement I guess. Might be recency bias but I can't every remember seeing snooker like he played in the final and he's been up there for much of this week. Saw during the week that he was 11/1 to have 100 centuries this year and thought it was a great bet. Looks at this shot!

https://twitter.com/WorldSnooker/status/1157938461254594560

Joe_ Public

There's no doubt he's a special talent, i thought that was clear from the time he burst on the scene back in 2010, we're lucky he's there because there's not too many others give you the same sense of excitement the way they play the game.

I'm not sure he's better or even as good a talent as O'Sullivan, though. That 97 break Trump made today was sensational, but i've seen that from O'Sullivan through the years countless times. Also, i saw Higgins (alex) do stuff back in the 80s that i dont think even O'Sullivan could do, and i know people who tell me that was nothing compared to what Higgins was doing a decade earlier. End of day, in terms of pure talent i'm not sure i'd want to separate any of them. Higgins played in a different era, when you didnt have the benefit of these faster tables which makes the game far easier to play, so it's just personal preference that i hold him in highest regard for his talent. Most of which he squandered, of course, but thats another story.

Btw i think that 11/1 is a good bet if its still going. 10 tons this week already and counting. He averages probably between 70-80 a season as it is, so no reason to expect he wont go significantly higher. Might have a look around for a go on that myself.

zuutroy

Yea I would have been all over the 11/1 but PP must have closed my account or something due to activity because I couldn't get in.
As an Ronnie fan I hope seeing Trump taking the headlines motivates him to put the work in and he gives it a good run this year.

Frank O. Pinion

I suggest this thread be renamed "General Snooker Discussion - 2019/20 Season", as it's used for all snooker news/discussion. "Minor Tournaments" are Riga Masters, Paul Hunter Classic, etc. The tournament on this week, (first session just finished, Trump playing brilliantly), the International Championship is actually the 4th highest ranking event and should have its own thread.

Haven't had time recently to post about Snooker, but I read that the Women's Snooker World Champion will get a spot in November's Champion of Champions event on ITV (if the 16 major events are won by less than 16 different men), current champ is Reanne Evans.

More Snooker in August:

Thursday, 15th - Sunday, 18th: World Seniors Championship (FreeSports)
Saturday, 24th - Sunday, 25th: Paul Hunter Classic (now a non-ranking invitational event, unsure of broadcast location)

Kyren Wilson v Florian Nüßle (17 year old Austrian wildcard)
Luca Brecel v Mark King
Matt Selt v Dominic Dale
Ken Doherty v Ryan Davies (17 year old English wildcard)
Barry Hawkins v Matthew Stevens
David Gilbert v Michael Holt
Joe Perry v Ben Mertens (14 year old Belgian wildcard)
Shaun Murphy v Qualifier (winner of a German Snooker Tour event, held 22nd/23rd August)

Joe_ Public

There's been less than 10 posts on this weeks tournament so not sure whether it would have justified a separate thread, but of course anyones free to start one. It's all good. While the chinese can obviously put a lot of money into their tournaments, this doesnt particularly feel like a major event to me. Some of the atmosphere during some of the earlier rounds was pitiful, even see empty seats at the final this morning. Anyway, think Murphy will feel happy enough to be only 3-6 behind. Still a chance to turn it around, i suppose, though hard to fancy it really.

Inviere

Joe_ Public wrote: »

There's been less than 10 posts on this weeks tournament so not sure whether it would have justified a separate thread

I always feel a separate smaller thread for the minor events is a way better way of encouraging posting. For instance, I might not have read a larger thread for a few weeks, so it's just far too much hassle catching up with what has happened, and I myself might not bother posting as a result. If there were a handful of smaller threads, dedicated to each event, it just feels like I'd be more likely to post and keep up to date with everything.

Joe_ Public

Inviere wrote: »

I always feel a separate smaller thread for the minor events is a way better way of encouraging posting. For instance, I might not have read a larger thread for a few weeks, so it's just far too much hassle catching up with what has happened, and I myself might not bother posting as a result. If there were a handful of smaller threads, dedicated to each event, it just feels like I'd be more likely to post and keep up to date with everything.

No bother, anyone feeling like starting a seperate thread for any of the tournaments should go right ahead. The more the merrier. I'll put one up for the china championship anyway and see how it goes. Not watching a lot of it myself as of yet, but will have a look at the later rounds.

Frank O. Pinion

Frank O. Pinion wrote: »

Saturday, 24th - Sunday, 25th: Paul Hunter Classic (now a non-ranking invitational event, unsure of broadcast location)

This was listed on the EuroSport Player earlier in the week, but doesn't seem to be on there now, so who knows. A few changes to the draw I previously posted, Shaun Murphy has pulled out due to some "injury", he's replaced by Ricky Walden, Mark King and Ken Doherty have swapped positions, and Matthew Stevens has been replaced by Gary Wilson. Updated draw:

Kyren Wilson (defending champion) v Florian Nüßle (17 year old Austrian wildcard)
Matt Selt v Dominic Dale
Luca Brecel v Ken Doherty
Ricky Walden v Qualifier (winner of a German Snooker Tour event, held 22nd/23rd August)
David Gilbert v Michael Holt
Joe Perry v Ben Mertens (14 year old Belgian wildcard)
Mark King v Ryan Davies (17 year old English wildcard)
Barry Hawkins v Gary Wilson

It was a proper ranking event since 2016, but with the winner's prize being only £20,000, the event struggled to attract the top players. So, instead of being one of the "minor" events, it's becoming the most-minor event on the professional circuit. A non-ranking 16 player invitational, featuring 12 pros (only 4 of them in the Top 16) and 4 amateurs, with a winner's prize of £10,000. Best-of-7s for every round.

If it is on the EuroSport Player, I'll be watching, but events like these on the calendar need to be revamped, change location, etc., something. When it was 128-players and a ranking event, you could see it served some purpose for lower-ranked players, but this year's version is...underwhelming. Barry Hearn says the sport is growing each season (which it is in many aspects), but there's 18 confirmed ranking events this season, two less than last season.

El_Duderino 09

I used to hope Ken would get a few match wins here and there. But now I really don't expect it anymore. He must have won a few quali rounds to get to the event so fair play.

And obviously it's his career and he can do exactly what he likes. But I always feel a bit sad to see him struggle on.

Joe_ Public

Only a top 16 invitational so he didnt win any matches to qualify. My honest opinion i kinda wonder sometimes why Ken still wants to go on playing at this stage, but at same time if he's enjoying it and gets a kick out of competing, then why not. He did give O'Sullivan a right scare in the UK Champs last year so he's still capable of a good level on his day. On the one hand it kind of shows you how ordinary the level is lower down in the rankings, but i still think he's doing well to be able to stay in the top 64 and keep his tour card. Craft and experience goes a long way when your facing some of those rookie pros who just dont seem to know how to win matches at that level.

That guy Ben Mertens is interesting, remember him from beating Cork lad Aaron Hill in the under 18 world championships either last year or year before. Another Luca Brecel in the making potentially!

El_Duderino 09

Joe_ Public wrote: »

Only a top 16 invitational so he didnt win any matches to qualify. My honest opinion i kinda wonder sometimes why Ken still wants to go on playing at this stage, but at same time if he's enjoying it and gets a kick out of competing, then why not. He did give O'Sullivan a right scare in the UK Champs last year so he's still capable of a good level on his day. On the one hand it kind of shows you how ordinary the level is lower down in the rankings, but i still think he's doing well to be able to stay in the top 64 and keep his tour card. Craft and experience goes a long way when your facing some of those rookie pros who just dont seem to know how to win matches at that level

I'd agree. And it's absolutely up to Ken. If he's enjoying himself then good for him. I watched a qualifier in Barnsley last year and I saw White v O Brien. Standard was very low. Highest break in the couple of hours I saw was 14.

As you said, once you drop down the order the standard falls off rapidly. I'd say ken wins a lot of scrappy frames through experience and craft. Fair play.

Joe_ Public

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

I'd agree. And it's absolutely up to Ken. If he's enjoying himself then good for him. I watched a qualifier in Barnsley last year and I saw White v O Brien. Standard was very low. Highest break in the couple of hours I saw was 14.

As you said, once you drop down the order the standard falls off rapidly. I'd say ken wins a lot of scrappy frames through experience and craft. Fair play.

Not sure that's White as in Michael or Jimmy. Michael White looked like a serious prospect 3 or 4 years ago, really believed he'd develop into a top player but has fallen off a cliff. As for Jimmy....whatever about ken, i find it a bit sad seeing jimmy getting regularly tonked by lesser players, but he wants to do it and his pal Barry keeps giving him a dig out as he can still draw a crowd.


I suspect Ken still dreams of one more crucible appearance before the curtain is finally drawn. Wouldnt have surprised me if he'd made it this year if he'd officially announced his retirement after he'd got beat. Might give it a couple of more gos, or until he loses his card, and then sayonara... Think that might be his target. Would be a nice way to go i think.

Frank O. Pinion

I think Ken should definitely retire at the end of this season, barring a deep run in a lucrative ranking event. He turns 50 next month, and provisionally he's outside the Top 64.

Iulian Boiko, a 13 year old from Ukraine won the German Snooker Tour event today, to get the final place in the Paul Hunter Classic.

El_Duderino 09

Joe_ Public wrote: »

Not sure that's White as in Michael or Jimmy. Michael White looked like a serious prospect 3 or 4 years ago, really believed he'd develop into a top player but has fallen off a cliff. As for Jimmy....whatever about ken, i find it a bit sad seeing jimmy getting regularly tonked by lesser players, but he wants to do it and his pal Barry keeps giving him a dig out as he can still draw a crowd.

Ah yes. It was jimmy white v o brien. I was working in Barnsley for the week and bumped into Michael white in the hotel. That's how I found out the tournament was on. Absolute bonus to have live snooker every night. If you've ever been to Barnsley, you'll know what I mean!

El_Duderino 09

Frank O. Pinion wrote: »

I think Ken should definitely retire at the end of this season, barring a deep run in a lucrative ranking event. He turns 50 next month, and provisionally he's outside the Top 64.

Iulian Boiko, a 13 year old from Ukraine won the German Snooker Tour event today, to get the final place in the Paul Hunter Classic.

13 year old winner! Must be one to keep an eye out for. They allowed a few children who won domestic events into the snooker shootout last year too. It must cause some embarrassment when they beat established players. I'd say they'd love to put laxatives in his Ready Brek.

Frank O. Pinion

Well, Ken lost in the 1st round (along with the 4 amateur teenagers), 4-1 to Luca Brecel. Kyren Wilson nearly successfully defended his title, but lost 4-3 in the final to Barry Hawkins.

Snooker in September:

Monday, 2nd - Saturday, 7th: Six-Red World Championship (Eurosport Player)
Monday, 9th - Sunday, 15th: Shanghai Masters (Eurosport)
Monday, 23rd - Sunday, 29th: China Championship (Eurosport)

September onwards is where the tour starts to pick up momentum. 20 out of 30 days with pro Snooker.

zuutroy

Really curious to see what sort of Ronnie returns. I wonder has he been putting the hours in to try wrestle the torch back from Trump, for another while at least. He did beat him last time they met! It would be great if they had 3-4 years of a proper rivalry. Haven't really seen a good one in snooker for a long time.

Frank O. Pinion

Ronnie returns to defend his two-time title in the Shanghai Masters, where he will most likely face Ali Carter in the second round (first time since the "shoulder barge"), and if all goes well, could meet Trump in final. He smashed Trump 10-3 in the 2017 Shanghai Masters.

zuutroy

I see Ronnie (5/2) is slight favourite for Shanghai over Trump (11/4). Must be because of how the betting has gone rather than a true representation of their respective chances of winning. Amazing that it represents a better than 50/50 shot that one of them will win it. Social media seems to suggest Ronnie is putting a good bit of practice in.

Joe_ Public

Definitely an interesting one alright. No idea how bookies price up these events, but i cant see there's a whole lot between the top two here. Trump has current form in the book, but outside of worlds last year Ronnie won 5 of the 10 tournaments he entered and was beaten finalist in two more, so he remains a formidable presence everywhere bar the crucible i would say. Be interesting to see how he faces the emergence of Trump as the man to beat now, whether he'll be keen to lay down a marker that he hasn't gone anywhere yet, be a great final if we get it.

Frank O. Pinion

The Six-Red World Championship (non-ranking event) started today in Thailand, shown on the Eurosport player. Kyren Wilson is the defending champion, winner gets 3,500,000 ThaiBaht (over £80,000) plus a spot in November's Champion of Champions. Not just the style of Snooker is different, but the tournament format as well. Eight groups of 4 players, with the top two from each group advancing to a round of 16.

30 men and 2 women have entered, including in one group Ding Junhui, Joe Perry, Noppon Saengkham, and Women's World Champion, Reanne Evans. Group H has Thepchaiya Un-Nooh, Mark Williams, Graeme Dott, and the other female player, Ng On Yee. Others include Jimmy White, John Higgins, Mark Selby, and even Ken Doherty.

Irish time, it's live from 5am-3pm. Finale is Saturday, 8:30am-2pm.

Frank O. Pinion

Six-Red World Championship Quarter-Finals (best-of-11s):

Ali Carter v Stephen Maguire
Ding Junhui v Gary Wilson
John Higgins v David Gilbert
Stuart Bingham v Mark Williams

Higgins, Maguire, and Bingham have already secured their places in the Champion of Champions, the other five men have not. Reanne Evans will be rooting on the Scots and Bingham so her place in the event is confirmed.

Frank O. Pinion

Stephen Maguire won the Six-Red World Championship for the second time, defeating John Higgins today, 8-6. Both men won the World Cup together back in June, so were already in the Champion of Champions.

Frank O. Pinion

Along with getting confirmed for the Champion of Champions yesterday, Reanne Evans defeated Maria Catalano 4-2 to win the Women's UK Championship for a record ninth time.

Frank O. Pinion

Major announcement from World Snooker for this season concerning a series of European events, which they're calling the "2020 European Series".

It involves four events already on the Snooker calendar, the European Masters (mid-January, recently held in Belgium, but moving to Austria), the German Masters (late January-early February, in Berlin), the Shoot-Out (late February, in Watford), and the Gibraltar Open (mid-March, on the rock).

Firstly, three of the events are getting a big boost in prize money, the European Masters up to £80,000 (from £75k), the Shoot-Out winner claiming £50,000 (up from £32k), and the Gibraltar Open winner taking £50,000 (up from £25k). The German Masters top prize remains at £80,000.

Secondly, and more importantly, the four events make up the new "European Series", where a separate ranking list will be kept over the four events, with whoever at #1 on the list after the Gibraltar Open, receiving a bonus of £150,000!

Now, most players already usually enter the European and German Masters, but with bigger prize money and more ranking points available, plus the chance at the bonus, this move will make more of the top players think twice about skipping the Shoot-Out and Gibraltar events.

https://metro.co.uk/2019/09/26/world-snooker-group-four-events-new-european-series-150k-bonus-offer-10812945
https://snookerhq.com/2019/09/26/world-snooker-announces-new-european-series

Frank O. Pinion

Snooker in October:

Wednesday, 2nd - Saturday, 5th: World Open Qualifiers (Eurosport Player)
Monday, 14th - Sunday, 20th: English Open (Eurosport)
Thursday, 24th - Friday, 25th: Seniors UK Championship (FreeSports)
Monday, 28th - Sunday, 3rd November: World Open (Eurosport)


After the first 3 ranking events of the season, these are the top 16 players of the season so far:

1. Shaun Murphy - £225,000
2. Judd Trump - £188,000
3. Mark Williams - £82,750
4. Mark Selby - £68,000
5. Yan Bingtao - £66,000
6. Kurt Maflin - £43,500
7. Mark Allen - £39,500
8. Mark Joyce - £37,250
9. Joe Perry - £36,500
10. Hossein Vafaei - £34,000
11. David Gilbert - £33,500
12. Matthew Selt - £32,750
13. Graeme Dott - £29,250 (tied)
14. Tom Ford - £29,250 (tied)
15. John Higgins - £26,500
16. Ding Junhui - £26,250

Last year, the cut-off for the World Grand Prix (top 32 of the season) was £48,600, so only the top 5 listed above are certain for that event. Ronnie plays his first ranking event of the season next week in the English Open.

Slippin Jimmy

The money is very poor compared to what it used to be. I would expect a top 16 players to be over £100k anyway.

Frank O. Pinion

Slippin Jimmy wrote: »

The money is very poor compared to what it used to be. I would expect a top 16 players to be over £100k anyway.

The money amounts listed there, are only what they have earned this season (since July), over 3 ranking events.

Shaun Murphy, for example, would have an extra £100,000 for being runner-up in the Shanghai Masters (non-ranking). His official two-year World ranking is #8, for earning £505,000 (ranking points/money), over the past 24 months. Which again, doesn't include invitational event money.