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Meath v Dublin El Classico of Gaelic Football

  • 16-06-2019 5:11am
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 1,072 ✭✭✭ Sonny678


    Well it was once the El Clasico of football. The heyday was the 80s and 90s . It still was competitive in the 00s, even though rivalry started to decline with Dublins dominance growing . But even into this decade up to 2012 and 2013 ( the last time anyone got close to Dublin in leinster) the games were still contests. Its really only in 2014 and 2016, the last two matchs, that Dublin have really turned it into a one sided rivalry with big hammerings.

    In the 80 and 90s , was the highpoint of the the rivalry . In 12 years in 80s and 90s there was 9 Meath v Dublin leinster finals in 12 years. There was 5 Meath v Dublin leinster finals in a row from 1986 to 1990. The games were titanic battles. Anyway here is the all Meath v Dublin leinster finals in the last 70 years.

    Since 1983 where the real modern Meath v Dublin rivalry begins. There has been 14 Meath v Dublin leinater finals in the last 35 years . There has been no draw and 7 wins for Meath and 7 wins for Dublin in the last 14 leinster finals between Meath v Dublin.

    Meath and Dublin have met 28 times in leinster championship since 1983.
    With 5 draws, 11 Meath victories over Dublin and 12 Dublin victories over Meath. So Meath v Dublin modern rivalry which began in 1983 is a very close rivalry.


    1955 The first proper Meath v Dublin leinster final. 15 Dublin men v 15 Meath men. Before this Dublin had teams full of county players. Meath are aging team after winning All Ireland the year beforehand with the oldest team ever to win Sam. By 1955 Meath players legs are gone. Kevin Heffernan invents the roaming inside forward and brings Paddy O Brien a merry dance of Croke Park. With O Brien away from the square. Dublin run riot. Worst defeat for reigning All Ireland champions ever as Dublin win by 20 plus points.

    1964 Meath beat All Ireland champions by 7 points on a wonderful sunny day. It should have being more. Jack Quinn is outstanding for Meath and shows why is one the best footballers in Ireland in the 60s up there with Mick O Connell and Sean O Neill and Enda Colleran

    1974 Dublin and Meath play in an entertaining game in leinster final. The game is close til the last ten mins where Jimmy keaveny is the difference. A very open game , as both team play good attacking football.

    1975 Meath after beating Dublin in the league final earlier on have a great chance. . Again put it up to Dublin. Meath should have won but Dublins experience tells. A certain Colm O Rourke makes his debut.

    1977 In 1977 Dublin won the All Ireland two in a row hammered Kerry and Armagh in semi final and final. Yet only lost to Meath by two points in the leinster final. Meath dominated the second half. And missed chance after chance. Meath throw the game away , after throwing the kitchen sink at Dublin.

    1984 Lyons misses a penalty. Meath felt it was the one that got away. Two Dublin goals seal victory. John Caffrey is sent of for Dublin. Barney Rock and Ciaran Duff r the difference scoring 1 - 4 between them.

    1986 9 point to 7. Dreadful conditions. Meath were like men possesed. O Rourke and McEntee were outstanding. Meath were just not going to lose that day.

    1987 4 point win for Meath in the sun. Meath were the best team in leinster and the country in 1987. Mattie Mcabe scores a great goal. Kevin Foley and Charlie Redmond r sent off. The day Stephen Roche won the Tour de France.

    1988 Dublin threw kitchen sink at Meath. Massive scrap in the first half. Dublins Charlie Redmond miss a peno at the end of the game and Meath win by the bare minimum. Mattie Mccabe scores two great goal in the first 15 mins. Dublin have David Sinnot sent off.

    1989 Lyons is missing from the lyons den. Duff scores one of the greatest leinster final goals ever. Colm Coyle is sent off. Vinny Murphy scores a great winner at the end of the day as Meath make a great comeback. and lead with 6 or 7 mins to go. The roar of Dublin supporters was something else at the final whistle.

    1990. Colm O Rourke buddles the ball into the net after O leary tackle. Meath superior team from start to finish. Meath are ahead by 8 points with 15 mins to go . While Dublin cut the lead . late points from David Beggy and Brian Stafford seal the win.

    1994 Graham Geraghty arrives on the scene and scores a great goal from wing back. Dreadful rain but Dublin were very good. Even though mistake by Meath goalie is the difference. Akex Ferguson and young liam Gallagher from Oasis are both in the stands watching Meath v the Dubs

    1995 Dublin hammer Meath in leinster final for first time in 50 years. Meath were ahead with 10 mins to go. But Dublin's fitness and experience is telling. Jason Sherlock and Jayo mania begins after this leinster final. Dublin subs started a a water fight with bottles near the end of game as Dublin supporters and players celebate like they have won Sam.

    1996 Dublin are reigning All-Ireland and leinster champions. A group of young kids eg Darren Fay Tevour Giles Mark Reilly come of age at the age of 20 and dethrone Dublin in dreadful rain conditions by 10 points to 8. Ciaran Whelan makes his Dublin debut.

    1999 Meath and particularly Ollie Murphy give Dublin the runaround. Meath won by 5 but it could have been double that. Trevor Giles pass for Ollie Murphy winning goal is the best pass I have ever seen in Croke Park. Ollie Murphy scores 1 - 5 from open play.

    2001 Richie Kealy goal seals the win for Meath. Geraghty and Murphy tormet the Dubs

    2012 Dublin are to strong for Meath as the Brogans put on a masterclass

    2013 Meath are excellent in the first half. But Dublin go up a level in the second half and the game is over with 10 mins to go

    2014 Meaths worst defeat in a leinster final to Dublin in terms of the game over by half time the worst since 1955 and probaly worst since the 20s.

    So that is Meath v Dublin leinster finals .


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Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 1,072 ✭✭✭ Sonny678


    Meath and Dublin is an evenly matched rivalry. Its unequal rivalry in terms of resources. But its even v results . The only true evenly matched rivals in football are Galway and Mayo and Meath and Dublin. Cork and kerry is a great event but kerry nearly always win. Only in the late 80s early 90s were Cork sucessful v kerry.

    Dublin v Meath is an even rivalry and only very recently has it become a really one sided rivalry.

    Just s few stats to back up this.

    Between 1930 and 2010 Dublin won 9 All Irelands and Meath won 7 All Irelands.
    In the 1930s Dublin won 0 All Irelands . In the 1930s Meath won zero All Irelands
    In the 1940s Dublin won 1 All Ireland Meath won 1 All Ireland
    In the 1950s Dublin won 1 All Ireland Meath won 1 All Ireland
    In the 1960s Dublin won 1 All Ireland Meath won 1 All Ireland.
    In the 1970s Dublin won 3 All Irelands Meath won 0 All Irelands
    In the 1980s Dublin won 1 All Ireland Meath won 2 All Irelands
    In the 1990s Dublin won 1 All Ireland Meath won 2 All Irelands
    In the 00s Dublin won 0 All Irelands Meath won 0 All Irelands.

    Modern Meath v Dublin rivalry begins in 1983 with Heffernans Dublin v Boylans Meath.

    In the last 35 years there has 14 Meath v Dublin leinster finals
    Dublin have won 7 Meath v Dublin leinster finals and Meath have 7 Meath v Dublin l leinster finals
    In the last 35 years there has been 28 Meath v Dublin championship matchs. There has been 5 draws and 12 victories for Dublin and 11 victories for Meath

    Meath v Dublin has been very competitive until recently.
    Meath v Dublin in 1940s 50s and 60s Meath were the dominant team but it was very a competitive rivalry
    In the 1970s Dublin were the dominant team but it was very competitive rivalry
    In the 1980s and 1990s Meath were the dominant team but it was s very competitive rivaket
    In the 00s Dublin were a bit more sucessful but it was a very competitive rivaley
    In the early part of the decade Dublin were more sucessful but it was still a competitive rivaly.
    Its only in the last 4 or 5 years in the last 2 matchs the rivalry has become very one sided and very uncompetitive.


    Lets look at how tight the rivaley was
    All the winning Margins of every Meath v Dublin championship game since 1983

    1983 A draw In the replay Dublin win by 3 points
    1984 Dublin won by 4 points
    1986 Meath won by 2 points
    1987 Meath won by 4 points
    1988 Meath won 2 points
    1989 Dublin won by 5 points
    1990 Meath won by 3 points
    1991 3 Draws, the 3rd replay Meath win by 1 point
    1993 Dublin won by 1 point
    1994 Dublin won by 1 point
    1995 Dublin won by 10 points
    1996 Meath won by 2 points
    1997 Meath won by 3 points
    1999 Meath won by 5 points
    2001 Meath won by 1 point
    2002 Dublin won by 7 points
    2005 Dublin won by 2 points
    2007 A draw in the replay Dublin won by 4 points
    2009 Dublin won by 2 points
    2010 Meath won by 11 points
    2012 Dublin won by 3 points
    2013 Dublin won by 7 points

    So as u can see the margin of victories up to bad defeats in 2014 and 2016 were very small. If u take out the hammering in 1995 by Dublin and hammered in 2010 by Meath which were freakish results in Meath v Dublin rivalry the average margin of victory in a Meath v Dublin leinster championship matchs for 35 years and 24 games was 3 points.

    So in 30 years and 24 championship games between Meath and Dublin the average winning margin by either was 3 points. Now that has to be one of the closest rivalries in Irish sport.

    Its only in 2014 with 16 point win and 10 point in 2016 that the rivalry is uncompetitive and one sided and Dublin are hammering Meath. So it very recent and it only in last two games.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,072 ✭✭✭ Sonny678


    Meath are improving. And in the the next 2 to 3 years will get stronger.

    The one thing McEntee has improved under Meath is the return of an old Meath trait. Meaths ability to up their game v top counties. Look at Meaths record traditionally v Dublin kerry Cork Mayo Galway Ulster teams it is excellent. Meath are Cork and Mayo bogey in the championship. Meath have beaten Dublin more then any other county. Meath have played 14 Ulster teams in All Ireland semi finals and won them all. Meath have only lost twice to Connacht teams in the championship in the last 65 years eg Galway in 1966 and 2001. Meath record v kerry at all levels is really good. Thats why we werent liked we were very sucessful v top counties.

    McEntee has got this trait back. Every division 1 team the top teams in the country Meath have played in last 2 years Meath went toe to toe with. Meaths best performances have been v some best teams in the country. Meath have played 6 games v division 1 teams , a top 8 teams in last two years. 3 performances v Donegal, games v Tyrone Galway and Roscommon.

    2017 Meath played Donegal. People were predicting Donegal would win by double figures. The score was level 8 times in the match. The score was level in injury time Donegal won by a point.

    2017 Meath played Galway. People were predicting Galway would win very handily. The bookies were predicting 6 or 7 point win for Galway. Meath won by 2 points. Only kerry Dublin and Meath have beaten Galway in the league in last 2 years.

    2018 Meath played Roscommon. Roscommon were reigning Connacht Champions. Again on this forum people were predicting a 7 or 8 point win for Roscommon. Roscommon drew the game with Meath after scoring penalty in 4th min of injury time

    2018 Meath played Tyrone the All Ireland finalist. People were predicting on this forum Tyrone would win by double figures. Tyrone drew the game in the fifth minute of injurytime. Tyrone beat Meath in extra time by 1 point in contervesial circumstances.

    2019 Meath played Donegal the Ulster champions. Meath lost by 2 points after being the best teams until the last 5 mins.

    2019 Meath played Donegal the Ulster champions People on this forum were predicting 7 or 8 point win for Donegal. Meath were 9 up after 15 mins and 5 ahead at half time. Donegal won by two points.

    So if Meath put it up to Dublin no one should be surprised. Why because this is what Meath have done to best teams in the country in last 2 years. Yes Dublin r the best team. But Meath have played excellently have gone to toe with some of the best teams in the country. Look at Meaths performances v Tyrone Galway Roscommon and the three games v Donegal. They didnt win them all but Meath were very very competitive in all games ans could have won them.all. In 6 games Meath have played v the best teams in the country in the last 2 years coming up to 70 mins Meath were either ahead or drawn with their opponents.

    Will Dublin be the 7th game in row Meath have performed excellenty and went toe to toe with top division 1 opposition. If they do it shouldn't be shock to anyone. The games v Donegal and Tyrone show Meath can compete at that level. Yes Dublin are ahead of these teams. But Meath performaning so consistently well v top teams surely had to be a good sign. And remember this Meath team r in the early stages of their development. They are 2 seasons at least from reaching their peak as a collective team. Players like the McEntees , McGill , lavin , Sullivan and McMahon have improved each year theres no reason why this wouldn't continue . A core of these Meath footballers will peak in the next 12 to 24 months. Also by chance up 7 or 8 Meath panelist will return next year from college , injury , working and travelling abroad. Players that will return next year are Donal lenihan, Ronan Jones , Alan Forde , Niall Kane , Ruari O Coilean, Joey Wallace , Eamon Wallace and Paddy Kennelly.

    While there will be new talent coming through some of the best young forward talent Meath have produced in years. James Conlon is the first of wave of new talent coming through Meath. I can see 4 to 5 of current Under 20 panel called up to seniors next year. James Conlon Dara Campion and Ronan Ryan have been excellent this year. Players on thiems years under 20s like Aaron Lynch , Matthew Costello , Luke Mitchell, Cian McBride are all players with real potential.

    But a player to look out for soon who is going to be called up after leinster final after he finished his leaving cert is Shane Walsh. A player from last years under 20 team who is still 19 I would rate higher then the excellent James Conlon. Young Walsh is 19 and is the best full forward in Meath club football. A player Meath r crying out for. A target man with great athleticism and power and skill a finisher as well.as a target man. Dont be surprised if Meath reach super 8 after he finishs his leaving he plays in the Super 8 for Meath.

    So when Meath play div 1 it will be from a position of strenght . Players peaking, up to 8 panelist returning and new talent coming thru we have not seen in years. Dont be surprised if Meath stay in div 1. If they don't I wouldn't be very surprised if Meath go down they will go back up next year again to div 1. Just like Cavan and Roscommon did. I expect Meath to be at least 2 of next 3 years in division 1. Even relegation next spring Meath should be promoted again in 2021 to div 1. The age profile of this Meath teams indicates in 2021 2022 this Meath team will be at their strongest. This Meath team are 12 to 24 months from their peak.

    Meath and kildare are putting in great work at underage. Both will be stronger in this decade then the last. It all depends how long but stay in divsion 1. Why did Cavan reach Ulster final this year , a spring in div 1. Why did Roscommon beat Mayo , a spring in div 1. Why did Kildare beat Mayo a spring in div 1. If a team spends a few years in div 1 progress will accelerate. look at Monaghan Donegal and Galway what div 1 football has done to all 3.

    Look at few stats to show Meath progress this year.
    1 Meath are promoted to div 1 for first time in 13 years.
    2 Meath reach leinster final for first time in 5 years.
    3 Meath win 3 championship matchs in a row in leinster for first time since 2010.
    4 Meath victories over Carlow in the quater final by 15 points and 11 points v laois is the highest aggregate score Meath have scored in leinster semi final and quater final together in 24 years. The last time Meath had such winning margins was in 1994 when Meath defeated Longford and Wicklow by 29 points together .
    5 Meath 11 point victory over laois is Meaths biggest victory in a leinster semi final in 24 years, along with 2010 semi final.

    So Meath didnt play brillianty v Carlow and laois and yet won 15 ponts and 11 points. Meath if they player poorly v Laois or Carlow in last 5 years they wouldnt have won. Now they play solid good performances and beat both counties by double figures and could have won by much more. These are all postiive signs for Meath.

    In summary The season is not over and this is already Meaths best season since 2010 , one of best seasons since Boylan left and in the top 4 season we have had since 2001..We have had great wins since we last won Sam. We are the only county in Ireland along with Cork to beat Great kerry and Tyrone of 00s and great Dublin team of this decade in the championship. We have beaten kerry Dublin Tyrone Mayo Galway in championship since we last we won Sam. Performances v Tyrone in 07 and Dublin in 10 were excellent. But our biggest problem has been inconsistency. It has been a massive problem since 2001..Inconsistency. A massive problem. This year we have been so consistent. We are winning games after games. We havent done this since 90s.

    We have won 9 competitive games this year. This is the most competitive games we have won in a season since 2007 when we won 10 competitive when we drew with Dublin beat great Tyrone team. Win 2 games in this years championship and this will be have our most competitive wins in 1 season since we won Sam twenty years ago in 1999.

    McEntee is improving Meath. And it is obvious with div 1 football next spring, 8 panelist potentially returning next spring , more forward young talent similar if not better then young Conlon coming thru next year and the year after. Meath players peaking next year and the year after. Potential at least 2 of next three years in div 1 , even if Meath r relegated. We will have great chance of promotion again. The signs r Meath are going to keep improving over the next 2 to 3 years. The signs are very obvious.


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,665 ✭✭✭ Bonniedog


    Sonny, always enjoy reading your posts. Probably lost on most here.

    You should seriously think of putting it into book.

    As Dub I agree. Dublin/Kerry was mostly one sided back then, and is now. From opposite sides obviously.


    Dublin/Meath was always a game, no matter what the relative standings of either. Looking forward to final, and seriously, if there was team to take us down, I would prefer it was your boys than anyone else.


  • Registered Users Posts: 15,347 ✭✭✭✭ gormdubhgorm


    Sonny678 wrote: »
    Meath are improving. And in the the next 2 to 3 years will get stronger.


    Dublin/Meath was always a game, no matter what the relative standings of either. Looking forward to final, and seriously, if there was team to take us down, I would prefer it was your boys than anyone else.
    Bonniedog wrote: »
    Sonny, always enjoy reading your posts. Probably lost on most here.

    You should seriously think of putting it into book.

    Jayus that is better analysis than you would get on the Sunday Game.
    Never mind a book that fella should be a panelist on telly.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 594 Force Carrier


    You left out 1983. replay, extra time, late goal.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 26,661 ✭✭✭✭ OldMrBrennan83


    Jayus that is better analysis than you would get on the Sunday Game.
    Never mind a book that fella should be a panelist on telly.

    You'd need half time to be 4 hours though.


  • Registered Users Posts: 15,347 ✭✭✭✭ gormdubhgorm


    You'd need half time to be 4 hours though.

    :D That's a good one now in fairness.
    Well done.


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,665 ✭✭✭ Bonniedog


    Still be a lot interesting than listening to oul fellas telling the audience "Well, when I won my All Ireland(s)"....

    PS. Not being oulfellaist and only medals are loser ones :-)


  • Registered Users Posts: 736 TCM


    The Leinster final will be no classic. Dublin will trounce Meath.


  • Registered Users Posts: 963 ✭✭✭ rushfan


    Always remember being on the Hill in '86, I was literally soaked through. Was prevailed upon by a mate to just go "for one" , needless to say I fell in the door around midnight.
    '95 was pure joy!!


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  • Registered Users Posts: 6,665 ✭✭✭ Bonniedog


    rushfan wrote: »
    Always remember being on the Hill in '86, I was literally soaked through. Was prevailed upon by a mate to just go "for one" , needless to say I fell in the door around midnight.
    '95 was pure joy!!

    They were great days. I was working in Navan in 1981 and Dublin had league game. I was in Kavanaghs - now a hairdressers or some dreadful thing, and at bar with friend from town.

    When a few Dubs arrived in he turned to me and said. "Ah, here's these counts." Then paused for a moment before saying. "Not you of course" :)

    That kind of sums up the relationship


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,072 ✭✭✭ Sonny678


    Bonniedog wrote:
    Sonny, always enjoy reading your posts. Probably lost on most here.

    Bonniedog wrote:
    You should seriously think of putting it into book.

    Bonniedog wrote:
    As Dub I agree. Dublin/Kerry was mostly one sided back then, and is now. From opposite sides obviously.

    Bonniedog wrote:
    Dublin/Meath was always a game, no matter what the relative standings of either. Looking forward to final, and seriously, if there was team to take us down, I would prefer it was your boys than anyone else.

    Thanks Bonniedog ur a gentleman.
    I just hope when I write I dont sound a lunatic.

    Its a pity the rivalry has declined. I think allot of younger Dublin supporters have never felt the full force of the rivalry. At its peak only the All Ireland final was a bigger game. Full houses two best teams in the country, full of great players , full of manly great football and full of great incidents moments and contervesies which kept the nation enthralled. Hopefully we see that back one day soon.

    I do think Meath are improving and next year and in 2021 and 2022 Meath will get stronger. With spring of div 1 football. Look at how Roscommon have come on with div 1 football. Even if Meath get relegated they should get promoted again like Cavan and Rossies. The age profile means they should. At least 7 or 8 panelist returning next year eg Donal lenihan, Ronan Jones, Niall Kane , Alan Forde, Ruari O Coilean, Eamon Wallace , Joey Wallace and Paddy Kennelly .

    And new talent like James Conlon coming through. There is real young exciting forward talent in the county at the moment between the ages 17 and 20..I haven't seen for a while in the county. Players like James Conlon , Dara Campion, Ethan Devine , Shane Walsh , Matthew Costello, Luke Mitchell , Aaron Lynch , Niall Finnerty , Eoghan and Conor Frayne , Cathal Finnegan , David Bell , Connall Aherne. .Best young forward talent we have produced since Sheridan, Ward , Farrell , O Rourke two Brays in late 00s. If 3 or 4 of them could develop into top class forwards that wud be big. And also players like McEntees, Harnan, Sullivan , McGill , McMahon, Dardis , Gallagher will all peak next year and in the following 2 years at they reach the ages of 25 26 27. Players like Padraig Harnan are only 24 this year. And every year they have improved so that should continue. More then likely Meath wouldnt reach Super 8 this year and if they do they could face what Roscommon got last year. But next year and the following 2 years Meath are getting stronger and if Meath get 4 games in Navan I give us a great chance of staying in div 1. The key for Meath is div 1 football. The longer u stay in div 1 the better a team u become thats fact. Look at Donegal and Monaghan in this decade. But I have a gut feeling Meath will put it up to Dublin next Sunday. Its a feeling in my water. I have little concrete evidence other then Meaths performances v Donegal and Tyrone recently. But I do think there is genuine evidence anc signs that Meath are going to get stronger and in the next three year will be good ones for Meath. How strong I dont know as it impossible to say. It all depends on how long Meath stay in div 1.


  • Registered Users Posts: 963 ✭✭✭ rushfan


    Sonny678 wrote:
    1988 Dublin threw kitchen sink at Meath. Massive scrap in the first half. Dublins Charlie Redmond miss a peno at the end of the game and Meath win by the bare minimum. Mattie Mccabe scores two great goal in the first 15 mins. Dublin have David Sinnot sent off.


    And the penalty should have been retaken as one of the Meath players ( can't remember which) ran alongside Redmond as he ran up to kick it. The referee, typically, bottled it.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,072 ✭✭✭ Sonny678


    Jayus that is better analysis than you would get on the Sunday Game. Never mind a book that fella should be a panelist on telly.

    Thanks Gormdubhgorm ur a gentleman. I dont think I would go down to well.with Brolly or Spillane on Sunday Game. I wud start talking about the 1947 league match between Meath v Dublin in Navan and the two boys would rather listen and talk about the finals they played in. It wud be three panelist stuck in the past.

    But joking aside thanks for the comments. I do appreciate them. I cannot wait for next week. Theres actually a good vibe around the county. People are quitely confident and optimistic. It would be great to put it up to Dublin. The provience so badly needs a proper competitive game. There hasnt been one v Dublin since 2012 and 2013 leinster finals .


  • Registered Users Posts: 963 ✭✭✭ rushfan


    Great reading btw, very enjoyable.


  • Registered Users Posts: 15,347 ✭✭✭✭ gormdubhgorm


    Sonny678 wrote: »
    1988 Dublin threw kitchen sink at Meath. Massive scrap in the first half. Dublins Charlie Redmond miss a peno at the end of the game and Meath win by the bare minimum. Mattie Mccabe scores two great goal in the first 15 mins. Dublin have David Sinnot sent off.


    88 was the first one I can properly remember age 10. I remember saying why did he go for point when he needed a goal!? :confused:
    Sick I was!
    rushfan wrote: »
    And the penalty should have been retaken as one of the Meath players ( can't remember which) ran alongside Redmond as he ran up to kick it. The referee, typically, bottled it.

    Was it Colm Coyle?

    Edit: No it wasn't was Mick Lyons (3) and McCabe (12)

    https://youtu.be/MscAG-tNeqs?t=4488


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,072 ✭✭✭ Sonny678


    Was it Colm Coyle?

    I cannot remember Meath player running against Redmond in 88. But I remeber lyons running beside Barr in 91 when he was taking peno with 15 mins to go in the 4th game. If Dublin had scored Meath would have never came back.


  • Registered Users Posts: 15,347 ✭✭✭✭ gormdubhgorm


    Sonny678 wrote: »
    I cannot remember Meath player running against Redmond in 88. But I remeber lyons running beside Barr in 91 when he was taking peno with 15 mins to go in the 4th game. If Dublin had scored Meath would have never came back.

    There was that one as well.
    Sure Charlie missed so many penalties it is hard to keep track.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,072 ✭✭✭ Sonny678


    rushfan wrote:
    Great reading btw, very enjoyable.


    ]Thanks for the comments. Rushfan. Hopefully Sunday week will be a close tight game. I hope it is a wet dirty day. 1986 and 1996 were dreadful days score line 9 points to 7 to Meath in 86 and 10 points to 8 to Meath in 96. Both games were dogfights which Meath won. Kerry v Dublin All Ireland final in 2015 was an awful wet dirty day. The lowest scoring of Dublins All Irelands , Dublin 0 - 12 Kerry 0 - 9. Dublin of course could play brillantly in the rain , but rain and muck can lead to tight low scoring games. And can lead to dogfights. And if Meath are up for this rain and muck would help. But maybe not. I dont know.


    But the three lowest scoring leinster finals of the last 50 years were days when the weather was awful and it was a rainy dirty day. The three lowest scoring leinster finals of the last 50 years r

    1 1985 Dublin 0 - 10 Laois 0- 4
    2 1986 Meath 0- 9 Dublin 0- 7
    3 1996 Meath 0 - 10 Dublin 0- 8


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,072 ✭✭✭ Sonny678


    There was that one as well. Sure Charlie missed so many penalties it is hard to keep track.

    Yep Charlie missed a penalties in two All Ireland finals v Donegal in 92 and Down in 94. And he was sent off in 95 and wouldnt leave the field. Charlie was a great character. Excellent freetaker and as good a freetaker as Dean Rock. But Barney Rock and Keaveney were best free takers Dublin have had. For me Dublins three greatest forwards of last 50 years are Jimmy Keaveney, Barney Rock and Bernard Brogan. Though Anton O Toole Diarmaid Connolly Paul Flynn deserve mention. Con Callaghan could become one of the Dublin greats also.

    Meath three greatest forwards of the last 50 years were Colm O Rourke Trevor Giles and Brian Stafford. Though Graham Geraghty Ollie Murphy Mattie kerrigan Ken Rennicks and Bernard Flynn deserve mention also.


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  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 11,111 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Hammer Archer


    Honestly, if we can keep the score to within 10 points, I'll be relatively happy. Even looking at the two teams warming up for their respective semi finals, the gulf in class between the two teams is clear to see.
    This game is a freebie for Meath in my view. It's McEntee's first championship game against Dublin so it's a chance to see exactly how far we are behind them.

    Only way we can even hope to keep it mildly competitive is if we play the game of our lives, kick no wides, get a few (probably lucky) goals while Dublin have their worst game in years, leave their shooting boots at home and probably get a red card or two. Best we can hope for is that the players are able to keep morale up for the round 4 qualifier.

    It's nice to reminisce about past victories over Dublin, but we are as far away from them now as we've ever been (despite having our best season in quite a while). It'll probably be the biggest shock of GAA history if Dublin are beaten in Leinster in the next 5 - 10 years.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,963 ✭✭✭ rpurfield


    Fair play Sonny. I know you were keeping it to finals but in my time going to these games you could add in 1991, 1997, 2005, 2007 and 2010 as well as games that were tight and fiercely competitive. We just really need to get back to the level where we can be toe to toe with the Dubs.


  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 11,111 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Hammer Archer


    05, 07 and 09 still rankle with me. Each of those games we could/should have won. Referees were less than kind to us in those ones.
    2010 definitely wasn't competitive :pac::pac::pac:


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,665 ✭✭✭ Bonniedog


    Oooh! Nice dig there hammer. That was a Mick Lyon's :-)


  • Registered Users Posts: 721 ✭✭✭ Hesh's Umpire


    Just from a neutral perspective, I'd worry for Meath if they cough up similar goal chances to Dublin as they did against us (Laois).
    I hope I'm wrong and that it's a competitive final but I honestly expect Dublin to win by 8 or 9 points.
    But the OP is right in that Meath seem to be improving quite a bit and I'm sure a year in the top league division will bring them on a lot too.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,072 ✭✭✭ Sonny678


    Honestly, if we can keep the score to within 10 points, I'll be relatively happy. Even looking at the two teams warming up for their respective semi finals, the gulf in class between the two teams is clear to see. This game is a freebie for Meath in my view. It's McEntee's first championship game against Dublin so it's a chance to see exactly how far we are behind them.

    Only way we can even hope to keep it mildly competitive is if we play the game of our lives, kick no wides, get a few (probably lucky) goals while Dublin have their worst game in years, leave their shooting boots at home and probably get a red card or two. Best we can hope for is that the players are able to keep morale up for the round 4 qualifier.

    It's nice to reminisce about past victories over Dublin, but we are as far away from them now as we've ever been (despite having our best season in quite a while). It'll probably be the biggest shock of GAA history if Dublin are beaten in Leinster in the next 5 - 10 years.

    I think that would be the commonly held view at there. But I would be surprised if we don't put it up to them. Yes of course there is a gap in both teams. That is clear. But I dont agree with to keep it competitive, we need to have Dublun players sent off and they have their worst game in years. If we play well and play with real intensity , if we play with the intensity we showed v Tyrone last year and second half v kildare in the league and if we play the quality football we played in the first half in the league final and the first half v Armagh most of that game. Basically if we play with the intensity of second half v kildare and the performance v Donegal in Ballybofey, this will be a much tighter contest then people think.

    We played real passion in that second half v kildare. And against Donegal in Ballybofey for 65 mins we played top class quality intelligent football. The best I saw from a Meath team.in years. In the words of a Donegal supporter he said " ur lads are playing quality div 1 football tonight".

    Play like that Dublin are not winning this game by double figures, it is a real.contest We play to that level it doesnt matter what Dublin are doing there facing a young agressive team play quality football. To many teams are beaten before they enter the field v Dublin. There is an aura a about them. The same there was an aura about Dublin in leinster and in the country ( outside kerry ) from 1974 to 1985.They were unbeatable they were invincible but men like Sean Boylan and Eugene McGee didnt believe it and the rest is history.

    All along way people have underestimated this Meath team , Tyrone were going to hammer Meath last year , Meath hadnt a hope of promotion.

    On this forum 2 years I said we would improve in 2019 and wud make impact in 2020 2021 2022. We wud win leinster in 2021 2022.The signs and evidence pointed to this. On this forum I said we wud be promoted in January this year. Everyone from Tomas O Se said we wud be relegated . The signs and evidence suggested we wud get promoted. We have a great chance of staying in div 1 in the next spring . The signs and evidence suggest this. And in 2020 2021 2021 the next three years will be strong. And my prediction that we will win leinster in 2021 2022 doesnt sound as crazy as an idea. There is evidence and signs to show this. I have written the reasons why I think so before and above on this forum.

    I have less evidence and there is less signs we can put it up to Dublin, other then the performances v Tyrone Donegal , no Meath manager has never not put it up to Dublin in their first game ( and 3 of those managers were in worst position then McEntee, 3 of them had Meath teams who basically in div 3 v Dublin who were All Ireland champions) .. But I have little evidence really. I have a feeling in my gut in my water that we put it up to Dublin. And the next statement I have no evidence to say and I think we are two years away from winning leinster. But if we can put it up to them , I am now thinking with my heart then my head, I believe we can beat them. I have always believed a Meath team can always beat Dublin team. I am not going to change that mindset now. But I know we I am thinking with my heart not my head. And I expect we will have a right good go at leinster in 24 months time.

    That it will be a shock that Dubs r not beating in leinster in next 5 to 10 years time. Dublin will be beating many times in leinster in next 5 to 10 years times. Thats not thinking with my heart but with my head. Dublin will dip in the 2020s and will dip much more then people think , the evidence is there.

    Firstly at underage ask any Dublin person who works at underage and they will tell u they are not producing the quality players they were producing a few years ago. 4 or 5 years ago at underage Dublin were wiping the floor with Meath , while kildare had 2 good good under 21 teams but Dublin were wiping the floor with kildare teams also and all teams at under 21 level in the provience and minor leinster football was the poorest provience. Dublin could use minor football as development for their minor squads. No minor team in leinster has won minor All Ireland outside Dublin in 15 years and only 1 county has reached minor final outside Dublin in 15 years eg Meath 2012.

    Meath and kildare have got their act togther at underage in response to Dubljns sucess and this will continue. Dublin have 70 full time coachs for the last 14 years. Meath and kildare had 3 full time coachs in that same time but in the last 6 months that has increased to 20 full time coachs. Louth and Wicklow have also had their coach allocation increased. It is still behind Dublin, but it is 6 times more under age coachs then we had before. It will be a very positive development.

    The signs r there already. Meath have beaten Dublin 4 times in 4 years at minor level in the last 5 years and won 2 minor ( under 17 ) leinster titles in a row , and the only team to defeat under 20 All Ireland champions in the championship last year and this years under 20 Meath team is best I have seen at this age in years ( made up of two leinster minor winning teams ). Meath will continue to be strong at underage. Kildare have won 3 leinster minor titles in 5 years and our the reigning leinster and All Ireland under 20 champions, kildare hammered Dublin in leinster under 20 final last year. Kildare will continue to be strong at underage.

    It has led to a very competitive underage championship in leinster compared to 5 or 6 years ago. At minor There was 4 contenders this year with Dublin Kildare Meath and Westmeath all having strong teams. At under 20 Meath Dublin and kildare all have strong teams and any of them could win leinster. Offaly are improving at underage. While Wicklow defeated Dublin at minor last year and cud have beaten kildare. At underage Wicklow will win leinster minor title in the coming years. Money and coachs have been invested in Wicklow , it will pay off.

    5 or 6 years Dublin underage players were better footballers more skilful and better strenght and conditioning then all in leinster especially in Meath. That gap has closed and teams like Meath and kildare are equal to Dublin at underage , if not better and I believe say for example between ages 17 to 20 Meath would have a set of underage talented forwards at a different level to Dublin at this age group. We always produced better natural forwards then Dublin. This decade the only exception. In 2020s will see Meath again producing better natural forwards then Dublin. James Conlon is the first of a good few talented forwards coming thru in Meath.

    And if Meath and kildare continue to have sucess at underage look at Roscommon and Cavan in football how their underage teams has led to.sucess at senior , look at how Galway limerick Clare and Waterford and Wexford underage sucess at hurling has led to.sucess at. senior.

    Nationwide the signs are there. Look at kerry winning 5 in a row at minors. It is obvious that there is a multiple All Ireland kerry winning team on the horizon. How will Dublin respond when kerry beat them? Cork will surely come back. Galway have got their act together at underage with serious work done on structures of Galway underage football. I expect Galway to be strong in 2020s. Mayo will keep pushing for Sam. This Donegal team has an All Ireland in them. And wait til u see there will be another great Ulster team from Ulster in the next decade eg Down Derry Donegal 90s , Tyrone Armagh 00s , Donegal 2012. Who will be next Mickey Harte or Jimmy McGuiness?. Dublin are at top but all.the counties want to shoot them.down..And when the Cluxtons retire , then u sud Dublin decline.

    Any time a team dominates like Dublin, they decline afterwards. There is a much more competitive era afterwards.

    The three greatest teams of the last 60 years who both nearly won 5 in row where Dwyers kerry, Codys Kilkenny and Tipp of the 60s.

    Dwyer kerry
    Kerry won 8 All Irelands in 12 years between 1975 to 1986. The next 11 years they had a famine no All Irelands wins between 1986 and 1997.

    Kilkenny dominated hurling for a decade and a half. When will kilkenny win their next hurling All Ireland. Could it be another ten years dont be surprised.

    Tipp won 4 All Irelands in 5 years in the 60s , a golden age in Tipp hurling. In the 70s Tipp didnt win a Munster title after 71 and didnt a game in Munster for 9 years.

    So when a great teams dominates the following decade they massively decline. Look at how Meath 80s and 90s , Down 60s , Cavan 50s look at how all those declined in the decade after.
    What r the chances Dublin will follow the same way.

    Between 1974 and 1986 Dublin and kerry won 11 All Irelands in 12 years. In the following decade there was 8 different All-Ireland winners in 9 years. In mid 1980s there was 2 All Ireland contenders. In the mid 1990s there was 8 or 9 different All Ireland contenders each year eg Meath Dublin Cork Derry Donegal Down Tyrone Mayo Galway Armagh kerry kildare.

    At the end of 00s there was two All Ireland contenders in hurling eg Tipp and kilkenny. Ten years later there is 7 or 8 All Ireland contenders. If u said that Galway Clare and limerick would win liam Mcarthy in the next decade if u said this in 2009 ur sanity wud be questioned. If u said in 2009 that in ten years time there would be 5 or 6 contenders for liam Mcarthy and Brian Codys Kilkenny wud be outside those 6 teams, u would have been laughed at.

    The fact is when a team dominates like Dublin it forces other counties to up their game. We have seen already kerry Meath and kildare up their game at underage. When u have am uncompetitive era the next era is very competitive. What are the chances u will see the same again. I think they r high. There is 2 or 3 All-Irelands in this Dublin team but from.2024 to 2030 we see different All Ireland winners and a much more competitive All Ireland and leinster championship. The signs r there.

    Anyway I cannot wait till Sunday I have a feeling in my gut we will put it up to Dublin. If not I think there is evidence and signs to suggest we are entering a strong phase for Meath and also kildare football. Things are starting to get very interesting.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,072 ✭✭✭ Sonny678


    Contd

    In mid 80s there was 2 All Ireland contenders, in mid 90s there was 8 or 9 All Ireland contenders in every season. In 2009 there was two All Ireland contenders in hurling. Ten years there are 7 or 8 All Ireland contenders. If u said in 2009 that in the next ten years Galway Clare and limerick wud win liam Mcarthy people wud have laughed at u. When u have a very uncompetitve era where one team dominates the following era is a very competitive era with multiple winners and mulitple contenders.

    I can see this Dublin team winning 2 to 3 All Irelands in next couple of years. But between 2024 and 2030 I can see multiple different All Ireland winners. And I can also a competitive leinster championship with Meath and kildare winning leinster the signs r there already.

    Anyway I cannot wait til Sunday . I have a feeling in my gut in my water we can put it up to Dublin. If not I still believe the evidence and signs suggest Meath are going to get stronger in the next 3 seasons. It doesnt matter what happen in rest of this season. Next spring is the big one. The longer u stay in div 1 the better u get. Look at. Roscommon a spring in div 1 , 3 of the last 5 seasons in div 1. What u saw yesterday was because of that. Look at Cavan first Ulster final in 18 years , a spring in div 1. And I believe we can stay up, but even if we go down the age profile of the team and the teams continuing improvement means Meath like Cavan and Rossies will go back up. Meath sud spend at least 2 of the next 3 seasons in div 1. Everyone knows the longer u stay in div the more a team improves. And when we play division 1 players next spring like Sullivan McMahon Harnan are peaking. More Young talent especially forwards coming thru and the return of possible 7 or 8 panelist eg Lenihan Jones Kane Forde O Coilean Two Wallace Kennelly means Meath will be stronger next year.

    If Meath were promoted any time in the last 5 years they would have been relegated. Next year they are being promoted just at the right time. Staying in div 1 is just if not more important then reaching Super 8. I have a feeling if we reach Super 8 we cud suffer the same fate as Roscommon last year.

    Anyway lets see how the rest of seasons pan out. Harnan should be fit for Sunday, one our best defenders and 5 or 6 years on the senior panel and still only 24 , a very experienced player. I heard Niall kane our best wing back is back training and cud be on the bench for Sunday. And young Shane Walsh who at 19 is the best full forward in the county has been drafted straight into senior panel not the under 20s after his leaving is done . All these are positive developments for a shot at super 8. The next 3 seasons Meath will keep improving. What they will.achieve no one really knows but the longer u stay in div 1 . Thats the key.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,072 ✭✭✭ Sonny678


    rpurfield wrote:
    Fair play Sonny. I know you were keeping it to finals but in my time going to these games you could add in 1991, 1997, 2005, 2007 and 2010 as well as games that were tight and fiercely competitive. We just really need to get back to the level where we can be toe to toe with the Dubs.


    Thanks for ur comments rpurfield.

    Yes games in the 00s and up to very recently were very competitive exception 2010. But 2005 , two games in 2007, 2009 , 2012 and 2013 were competitive games.. It is only under Jim Galvin and the four in a row winning team that Dublin started to hammer Meath and I suspose everyone else. Games in 2014 and 2016 were record defeats for Meath especially 2014. But its only very recently Meath v Dublin games became very one sided in terms of Dublin dishing out big hammerings.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,072 ✭✭✭ Sonny678


    Bonniedog wrote:
    Oooh! Nice dig there hammer. That was a Mick Lyon's :-)

    No Bonniedog it was a Colm Coyle or liam Harnan dig. Mick was tough but Coyler and Harnan were real tough guys on those Meath teams.
    Coyler was a very good footballer , a real.versatile players while Harnan was a real leader. But tough men all the same.

    But Dublin had tough player also. Players like Sean Doherty , Mick Kennedy, Gerry Hargan, Eamon Heery and Kieth Barr. But it must be said Hargan was a great full back and the Curran Barr Heery half back line was a great back line and all three would walk onto current Dublin team. Heery is as good as Small. Barr is better footballer then Brennan and I would say Sullivan and Curran was one of the first great attacking modern wing back. He wud give Mccaffrey a run for his money. One of my favourite half back lines of all time. When that half back line played Meath half forward line of Dowd , Giles and Geraghty that was worth the admission price alone.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 6,665 ✭✭✭ Bonniedog


    They were all tough! wouldn't have survived otherwise.

    O'Rourke tells a story about getting put on his arse but getting ready to get up straight away, which was what they all did, no lying down.

    Then he spotted Keith charging towards him anticipating O'Rourke getting up and putting him down again. So O'Rourke thought to himself. "Maybe I'll take another few seconds." :-)


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