Is this a good salary?

laradevire

Hi

I recently started my second job as a developer. My first was a backend, this one is as a frontend. I have around 7 months of experience from my previous role. My salary is 32.5K a year. Is that good? I'm happy with this, as I wasn't on great money in my first job.

GreeBo

laradevire wrote: »

Hi

I recently started my second job as a developer. My first was a backend, this one is as a frontend. I have around 7 months of experience from my previous role. My salary is 32.5K a year. Is that good? I'm happy with this, as I wasn't on great money in my first job.

I'd say its pretty darn good for someone with under a year experience!:eek:

laradevire

GreeBo wrote: »

I'd say its pretty darn good for someone with under a year experience!:eek:

I'm pretty happy with it, but some people are telling me it's low. This was the market range I thought.

JustAThought

laradevire wrote: »

I'm pretty happy with it, but some people are telling me it's low. This was the market range I thought.

For your experience,yes. Work steady for a few years a nd get good experience and then move for a good raise. Win win. Good luck in the new job!

laradevire

JustAThought wrote: »

For your experience,yes. Work steady for a few years a nd get good experience and then move for a good raise. Win win. Good luck in the new job!

Hopefully, I get decent internal rises. It seems like a fantastic company. Thank you!

WhiteMemento9

laradevire wrote: »

I'm pretty happy with it, but some people are telling me it's low. This was the market range I thought.

If you are based in Dublin it is probably low. Anywhere else then it is a good salary. I have seen Dev jobs in Dublin for graduates this year starting at 38k straight out of college. I know of some way higher straight out of college but you are talking the likes of Top University Grad of CS and the like courses with very high marks.

done4now

Well to give you some perspective I started on £21k fresh out of Uni (2011), got promoted to £25k (2013) with bonuses every year roughly (~£1k) in Belfast. Moved to Dublin for €40k in 2014 (looking back I should of asked for more) got bump in 2017 to €45k with no bonuses all during my time there as I was ineligible (fecking HR policy due to my title) while similar peers were on ~€60k.

Found out this years interns got offered €20k only to up it by another €17k a few weeks before starting added to a €1k signing on bonus so brining them to a grand total of €38k. So after 8 years experience working as a developer I was earning €7k more than someone who hasn't even finished Uni :mad: (makes me mad even thinking about it again)

Then a few months back I got offered €550 a day as a contractor :rolleyes:

To answer your question I think your salary is excellent for your experience and you are still pretty green so in a few years you can start demanding a lot more. IMO experience is way better than pay especially at the start of your career.

beauf

https://www.brightwater.ie/docs/default-source/surveys/salary-survey/2019/information-technology.pdf?sfvrsn=0

I hear a lot about these salaries. You can generally tell if someones earning a lot, by how they live.

smacl

beauf wrote: »

I hear a lot about these salaries. You can generally tell if someones earning a lot, by how they live.

Not in my experience. Access to credit is such that many people leading an apparently wealthy lifestyle are up to their necks in debt. Similarly I know quite a few very well to do techy types that don't drive and dress like extras from a Jay and Silent Bob movie. While it is a bit of a stereotype, sales and management types tend to show more visible signs of apparent wealth regardless of whether they actually have any. Devs, not so much.

beauf

That's superficial stuff. If someone is investing and buying properties and talking about money like having 18 months mortgage reserve etc. Forward planning etc. Their general behavior and mannerism around money. Even if they are a miser you can generally tell if they have money. Most multi millionaires I know would haggle over a cup of coffee.

It's on other things too like how they talk about jobs wages, companies. They will be dismissive of roles below them and wage scales they are beyond. Once someone is over 120k they are generally looking for other business opportunities, passive income, running side business etc.

Higher end Contractors talk like this too. Even though may not realise they do.

beauf

smacl wrote: »

... While it is a bit of a stereotype, sales and management types tend to show more visible signs of apparent wealth regardless of whether they actually have any. Devs, not so much...

Oh I agree, Devs generally tend to be very conservative bit like accountants.

smacl

beauf wrote: »

Oh I agree, Devs generally tend to be very conservative bit like accountants.

Different generation of devs from me so. Nothing against accountants per se, nor conservative types for that matter, but just no. :pac:

Sonny noggs

My basic salary has stagnated at the mid to high 90s the last 3 or 4 years (approx 17 years dev experience), I took a 3k pay drop to take a new job last year, fewer holidays, less responsibility but far shorter commute so happy with the decision.

Better bonus in the new job also.

dotsman

Sonny noggs wrote: »

My basic salary has stagnated at the mid to high 90s the last 3 or 4 years (approx 17 years dev experience), I took a 3k pay drop to take a new job last year, fewer holidays, less responsibility but far shorter commute so happy with the decision.

Better bonus in the new job also.

Yes, there does seem to be a lot of resistance at the 100K mark, unless contracting (unlike other professions). It's like once they hit that, the bean-counters scream "outsource" (regardless of how much more that costs the company in the long run).

Shai

dotsman wrote: »

Yes, there does seem to be a lot of resistance at the 100K mark, unless contracting (unlike other professions). It's like once they hit that, the bean-counters scream "outsource" (regardless of how much more that costs the company in the long run).

I find you can get around that resistance by getting partially paid in stock. Although that does require your employer to be listed on the stock market.

14ned

dotsman wrote: »

Yes, there does seem to be a lot of resistance at the 100K mark, unless contracting (unlike other professions). It's like once they hit that, the bean-counters scream "outsource" (regardless of how much more that costs the company in the long run).

From HR's perspective, there is a tax band between 70k and 100k, and the break point is 100k. If you look at pay for professionals, it tends to cluster within the tax bands from Revenue, so below 44k (married couple), then 44k - 70k, then 70k - 100k, then 100k to 125k, then 125k+. Each of these is a marginal tax rate threshold where the marginal tax rate rises, so it's natural to categorise employees into those bands.

On that scale, senior software engineers with a foot into management ought to be two tiers below upper management, so under 100k makes total sense to them for where people ought to be in the pecking order. If you rise into management, you enter the 100k - 125k band, and now there is a lot of resistance to exceeding 125k.

Some authorised stock option schemes sit outside those tax bands, which makes them cheap to offer and they operate on a separate ranking system anyway.

Niall

Shai

I didnt know about those tax bands. Where are they from?

14ned

Shai wrote: »

I didnt know about those tax bands. Where are they from?

If you compose all the Income taxes and PRSI taxes and USC taxes onto a single graph (like HR and accountants do), then those bands fall out.

rainbow kirby

I was on 32k in Dublin 7 years ago in my first dev job with 2 years of QA behind me, so I'd consider it on the low end for Dublin. It's solid anywhere else in the country though.

christy G

Hi is 60k a year after tax good salary in dublin?

biko

There just isn't enough info in your post to make an educated guess.
Are you junior/senior, what skills have you etc etc..

You can try going here https://www.glassdoor.ie/Salaries/index.htm and typing in your job title and location, and see that way.

Creamy Goodness

60k after tax is roughly 100k gross. There was a Irish times article in the last few years stating how many people are on which salary. There 108,000 people on a salary of 100k or above in the entire island of Ireland. If you’re on 100k you are in the top 3.6% earners in the country.

It’s a great salary but as Biko said depends what you’re being asked to do, if you’re working 12-14 hour days and non stop pressure cooker situations and constantly and never not contactable by people I’d say not really.

Subscription required: https://www.irishtimes.com/business/personal-finance/are-you-a-high-income-earner-if-you-are-on-80-000-a-year-1.3605299

namenotavailablE

Assuming the typical tax data values for a single person, if you're taking home €60,000 you'd be on a gross pay value of €96,900.

Here's my spreadsheet result:

christy G

Hi no I don't work 12-14 hour days and non stop pressure cooker situation. I would work 40 to 48 hours a week I have a side bussines some months I make 6 to 7k but majority of the time it's 5k .

igCorcaigh

So, I'm just looking to add to this thread, rather than starting a new one, if you all don't mind, especially op.

I had posted earlier on the salary thread:

--

I'm been a software developer in dotnet /C# for almost twenty years and the highest salary I've been paid was 45k. Recent contract rates have been 350pd.

I'm on the jobs market now and have just received a call from an agent about a development role, for 45k. I'm currently in the interview stage for a 60k offer though.

Am I just bad at haggling, but why do the offers I see pay less than what I would expect of industry average?

Cork City.

---

So I got very positive feedback this afternoon from a company offering 56k.

I have concerns about their tech stack, as it involves VB and some legacy code. Desktop based winforms which they are thinking of porting to WPF (no experience).

The company are a large multi in the fintech area, which is not my interest. I would have preferred a role with exposure to modern development patterns, microservices, big data etc.

I've been out of work since May, and really poor.
My priority is an income.

I would be mad to second guess this one, wouldn't I?

Shai

Those all seem pretty low to me, but then again, I don't know the situation in Cork, I only know the Dublin job market. I imagine these are all small companies and not multinationals?

igCorcaigh

Shai wrote: »

Those all seem pretty low to me, but then again, I don't know the situation in Cork, I only know the Dublin job market. I imagine these are all small companies and not multinationals?

Multi. Been in existence for over 300 years lol!

Hey, I'm happy with it.
Keeps the wolves from the door.

Plus, I love what I do, so win win.

14ned

igCorcaigh wrote: »

So I got very positive feedback this afternoon from a company offering 56k.

I'd agree that it seems low. A friend of mine's wife works in Mahon and is on approx 75k. She's a senior Java developer, nearly 20 years experience.

igCorcaigh wrote: »

I've been out of work since May, and really poor.
My priority is an income.

I think you're absolutely right to take it. More than six months out of employment begins to hurt your employability.

Niall

igCorcaigh

14ned wrote: »

I'd agree that it seems low. A friend of mine's wife works in Mahon and is on approx 75k. She's a senior Java developer, nearly 20 years experience.



I think you're absolutely right to take it. More than six months out of employment begins to hurt your employability.

Niall

Thanks.

I'm going to accept the offer with enthusiasm tbh.

I really want to be back on the scene because I love working at what I do, and have never earned more than this. The tech stack isn't ideal, but it's a job, and things could change. I want to work.

I also have had a *lot* of health issues in the past, with many gaps in my CV.

They did ask about that, because it does stand out, but I was very upfront about it.

And they seemed really nice and understanding.
I'm really looking forward to this and know I'm lucky for this opportunity to get back in the game.

cr-07

laradevire wrote: »

Hi

I recently started my second job as a developer. My first was a backend, this one is as a frontend. I have around 7 months of experience from my previous role. My salary is 32.5K a year. Is that good? I'm happy with this, as I wasn't on great money in my first job.

Its about average. I'm currently on 36k a year with a large MNC. Finished my degree 6 months ago and joined directly after finishing. I have friends who started on 32k and friends who started on 39k.

beauf

igCorcaigh wrote: »

Thanks.

I'm going to accept the offer with enthusiasm tbh.

I really want to be back on the scene because I love working at what I do, and have never earned more than this. The tech stack isn't ideal, but it's a job, and things could change. I want to work......

I think the scope of your question can't be answered on a forum, without a lot of personal information that isn't appropriate here. There's a back story here missing a bits of the jigsaw. You have to set appropriate and realistic goals from where you are at, and not always compare yourself with others who are taking a different road through life.

For example I'm not able to spend lots of my own time at home studying, or have a lot of free time. So realistically, I can't compete with someone who can use that time to gain competitive edge.

I would also say its always a good idea to aim for 1.0 and plan for 2.0. In that perspective, aim to get back to a 1.0 job. Once thats achieved, then look to progress to the next level.

If your situation was different, and you were being simply underpaid, that would be different. But I would say once you achieved 1.0 re-evaluate.

14ned

cr-07 wrote: »

Its about average. I'm currently on 36k a year with a large MNC. Finished my degree 6 months ago and joined directly after finishing. I have friends who started on 32k and friends who started on 39k.

39k straight out of university? I'll sound old now, but my first job programming paid me £9,000 and I thought myself very wealthy at the time (which I was, relative to my peers).

Did you or your friends have any unusual post grad qualifications, or specialisations?

Niall

Tar.Aldarion

If they are working for any big company, google, MS etc then I'd expect it to be more than that, so just depends where they are working I'm guessing, and there is nothing special about them. I started as a grad 7 years ago in a small Irish company on 33k and was @45k in 6 months - (incl bonus). Heard people last year starting at 68k in google, plus stock and so on, and I doubt there is anything unusual about them. I came top of my class and there was nothing unusual about me.

cr-07

14ned wrote: »

39k straight out of university? I'll sound old now, but my first job programming paid me £9,000 and I thought myself very wealthy at the time (which I was, relative to my peers).

Did you or your friends have any unusual post grad qualifications, or specialisations?

Niall

No, nothing special. I'm 26, worked in McDonalds as a manager previous to college. Done a Bachelors degree in Software Development, graduated last year and started in a MNC in the midlands on 36k. The friend on 39k is only 22, only has the college course under his belt, he is not a 'brain box' or anything. Started in a MNC in Galway straight after college on 39k.

christy G

14ned wrote: »

I'd agree that it seems low. A friend of mine's wife works in Mahon and is on approx 75k. She's a senior Java developer, nearly 20 years




I find that a good wage but for someone in the job 20 years I would of thought she would be on More . I'm 28 and on 60k a year after after tax.

FastFullBack

christy G wrote: »

I'm 28 and on 60k a year after after tax.

28 and on €100K gross. Nice gig, what do you do?

14ned

cr-07 wrote: »

No, nothing special. I'm 26, worked in McDonalds as a manager previous to college. Done a Bachelors degree in Software Development, graduated last year and started in a MNC in the midlands on 36k. The friend on 39k is only 22, only has the college course under his belt, he is not a 'brain box' or anything. Started in a MNC in Galway straight after college on 39k.

Money has lost about a third of its value since I graduated, so when did I reach 27k in my career?

I reached a 32k salary around 2001, where I was by that time a manager with a team of three underneath me. I remember feeling unbelievably wealthy at the time (I lived in Spain, where the average industrial wage at that time was about 8k). I ate regularly at extremely nice restaurants, was out clubbing every weekend for multi-day long parties, and the 35 hour week and extensive annual holidays meant I had tons of leisure time to actually go spend the money. Even with all the spending, I still banked 10k in savings each year.

In buying power of non-housing stuff, your generation of graduates are amazingly fortunate with those kinds of starting salaries. However, I suspect it'll be the housing stuff which will bite you long run. Hell, I'm in my forties and I'm still renting, but I'm also genuinely debt free, unlike anyone else I know of my age who is saddled with considerable negative equity.

I entered the 40% tax bracket for the very first time in my life last year, going from 35k to 70k, mainly because the 3.5x income mortgage cap forced me to. Three years from now I can get a mortgage, then house building time!

(If that doesn't make sense, I'm a contractor, so I can choose how much income to take home each year. I deliberately never entered the 40% tax bracket until now by choice. I've always earned considerably more than I take home, rest goes into pension)

Niall

14ned

christy G wrote: »

14ned wrote: »

I find that a good wage but for someone in the job 20 years I would of thought she would be on More . I'm 28 and on 60k a year after after tax.

Firstly, it's Cork, not Dublin. Secondly, she's in Java, which isn't exactly a hot skillset right now. And thirdly, there is a glass ceiling for pay which is regional, you rise rapidly in your early years, but the annual increment slows down rapidly.

Sure, she probably could get a bit more in today's jobs market, but there are more things in life than pay. She currently has an easy commute, they're flexible with her kids, and to be honest when you reach a certain age you tend to favour stability.

I mean, most people past a certain age working somewhere tolerable will consider jumping ship for a +20% salary, but it usually takes a +33% to make them actually jump.

Niall

Eircom_Sucks

done4now wrote: »

Well to give you some perspective I started on £21k fresh out of Uni (2011), got promoted to £25k (2013) with bonuses every year roughly (~£1k) in Belfast. Moved to Dublin for €40k in 2014 (looking back I should of asked for more) got bump in 2017 to €45k with no bonuses all during my time there as I was ineligible (fecking HR policy due to my title) while similar peers were on ~€60k.

Found out this years interns got offered €20k only to up it by another €17k a few weeks before starting added to a €1k signing on bonus so brining them to a grand total of €38k. So after 8 years experience working as a developer I was earning €7k more than someone who hasn't even finished Uni :mad: (makes me mad even thinking about it again)

Then a few months back I got offered €550 a day as a contractor :rolleyes:

To answer your question I think your salary is excellent for your experience and you are still pretty green so in a few years you can start demanding a lot more. IMO experience is way better than pay especially at the start of your career.

thinly veiled " Look at me earning this "

christy G

14ned wrote: »

christy G wrote: »

Firstly, it's Cork, not Dublin. Secondly, she's in Java, which isn't exactly a hot skillset right now. And thirdly, there is a glass ceiling for pay which is regional, you rise rapidly in your early years, but the annual increment slows down rapidly.

Sure, she probably could get a bit more in today's jobs market, but there are more things in life than pay. She currently has an easy commute, they're flexible with her kids, and to be honest when you reach a certain age you tend to favour stability.

I mean, most people past a certain age working somewhere tolerable will consider jumping ship for a +20% salary, but it usually takes a +33% to make them actually jump.

Niall

What would be a high wage for a software developer?
I'm not a software developer.

christy G

FastFullBack wrote: »

28 and on €100K gross. Nice gig, what do you do?

I work in the security industry .but i dont make that just from that I have a side bussines from both I come out with 60k after tax sometimes a bit more .

Anima

christy G wrote: »

I work in the security industry .but i dont make that just from that I have a side bussines from both I come out with 60k after tax sometimes a bit more .

Hey Christy are you 28 and on 60k after tax? I don't think you've said that enough times so far.

cr-07

What are all of these 'side businesses' people are doing, and how do I get in on it? Is it basically free lance work you are doing?

14ned

christy G wrote: »

14ned wrote: »

What would be a high wage for a software developer
I'm not a software developer.

As always, depends on where, and what specialisation.

Fresh graduates are apparently getting about 35k, which I find excessive, but there you go.

Senior devs in Dublin are typically 100k.

Specialist devs in Dublin certainly can bank 160k.

Specialist devs working remotely for US companies can hit 250k-350k.

Senior devs in Silicon Valley or New York are easily on 200k-250k now, specialist devs 700k, star programmers well into the millions per year. I was quite sickened to learn recently of a friend of mine on 2.2 million. Honestly, he's a good programmer, but nothing remarkable. But in the end what you negotiate is what you're worth.

Niall

smacl

14ned wrote: »

In buying power of non-housing stuff, your generation of graduates are amazingly fortunate with those kinds of starting salaries. However, I suspect it'll be the housing stuff which will bite you long run. Hell, I'm in my forties and I'm still renting, but I'm also genuinely debt free, unlike anyone else I know of my age who is saddled with considerable negative equity.

The housing thing is certainly what has messed many people up. I'm that bit older and was lucky enough to get in early but I'll still be pleased to get rid of the mortgages. That said, I'll have a big chunk of equity to go with the pension when the time comes. Staying debt free makes huge sense where possible. Running a small software house and paying salaries, you never really know when the shít is going to hit the fan next. Only downside of not buying a house where you're self employed is your pension pot needs to be big enough to pay rent when you retire. Either that or assuming it is a directors pension, you can take a big lump out when it matures an buy a place outright.

Donald Trump

cr-07 wrote: »

What are all of these 'side businesses' people are doing, and how do I get in on it? Is it basically free lance work you are doing?

Selling crack maybe??

14ned

smacl wrote: »

The housing thing is certainly what has messed many people up. I'm that bit older and was lucky enough to get in early but I'll still be pleased to get rid of the mortgages.

If you bought in the cities I'd say you're out of negative equity by now, or very close to it, even if you bought at peak. If you bought outside the cities, the picture remains glum. My sister bought at 180k, still not worth more than 130k. She's basically trapped there forever.

Anyway, as for me I've deliberately waited to not buy at the peak of a bubble. I'll be waiting at least three years, hopefully we'll hit a trough by around then.

Niall

smacl

14ned wrote: »

If you bought in the cities I'd say you're out of negative equity by now, or very close to it, even if you bought at peak. If you bought outside the cities, the picture remains glum. My sister bought at 180k, still not worth more than 130k. She's basically trapped there forever.

Anyway, as for me I've deliberately waited to not buy at the peak of a bubble. I'll be waiting at least three years, hopefully we'll hit a trough by around then.

Niall

As I say I was lucky, bought the first place in Dublin city centre for IR£90k sold five years later for €410k, so carried a whack of positive equity into the next place and have always been way ahead of that particular curve. Had sixteen employees at that point which was way scarier. Trying to get graduate programmers to actually pay for themselves as an SME is a serious challenge. Down to three bodies now and a much happier bunny for it.

dotsman

14ned wrote: »

christy G wrote: »

Secondly, she's in Java, which isn't exactly a hot skillset right now.

Eh? Can't get them for love nor money these days.

14ned

dotsman wrote: »

Eh? Can't get them for love nor money these days.

Only hot skillsets get the bump in salaries offered to fill the role.

Otherwise they leave the role unfilled at the lower salary, and complain loudly about "the skills shortage".

Niall

WhiteMemento9

14ned wrote: »

Only hot skillsets get the bump in salaries offered to fill the role.

Otherwise they leave the role unfilled at the lower salary, and complain loudly about "the skills shortage".

Niall

What are you talking about hot skills? He is saying Java is hugely in demand and good devs can't be got for love nor money. Usually, when someone talks about Java like it is some dead language it is from someone not very knowledgeable on the industry but coming from someone who claims to have worked in the area for many years it's very strange. Any strong Java dev can transition those skills to loads of areas if needed and anyone with half a clue knows that as well.