Part 4 tenant subletting to licensee housemate

4ensic15

Langston Microscopic Watt wrote: »

Surely the LL can refuse on grounds he never permitted the person to move in and demand they vacate instantly.

The tenant is supposed to tell tyhe landlord of anyone residing at the property so the landlord should know when a licensee has moved in.

4ensic15

mrslancaster wrote: »

where does it say that a tenant has to agree or accept any change in their tenancy? The only place that mentions a licencee changing to a full tenant is in chapter 6 which is about multiple tenancies.

How can a landlord change the terms of a tenancy agreement if the tenant does not agree to it? If a LL can't unreasonably refuse to accept a licencee after 6 months it makes no sense for any tenant to have a tenancy agreement.

Tenants have rights and as has been pointed out on numerous times in this forum, they are entitled to peaceful enjoyment of their home. If they decide to have a guest/lodger staying that is up to them but if the LL tries to impose additional tenants or compel the tenant to accept such a change then they must be breaching the tenants rights as it is a fundamental change to the agreement.

I would be on to the RTB immediately for breach of LL obligations.

If a tenant brings in a guest or lodger they have to inform the LL. That is a statutory requirement. It may also be required under a lease. If the tenant does bring in a lodger then the tenant has to accept the consequences. It may be a different situation if a landlord tries to impose an additional or new tenant. This thread is about the former situation.

4ensic15

4ensic15 wrote: »

The tenant is supposed to tell tyhe landlord of anyone residing at the property so the landlord should know when a licensee has moved in.

But in many cases they don’t tell the LL.

Graham

That sounds like it would be a breach of tenant obligations which has its own process.

mrslancaster

4ensic15 wrote: »

If a tenant brings in a guest or lodger they have to inform the LL. That is a statutory requirement. It may also be required under a lease. If the tenant does bring in a lodger then the tenant has to accept the consequences. It may be a different situation if a landlord tries to impose an additional or new tenant. This thread is about the former situation.

Thanks for the info 4ensic.

Fian

The interesting thing is - when they become a part IV tenant who do they pay the rent to? The landlord (rather than the subletting tenant) would be the obvious answer, since their new part IV tenancy to the landlord is the basis on which they are entitled to reside there.

4ensic15

Fian wrote: »

The interesting thing is - when they become a part IV tenant who do they pay the rent to? The landlord (rather than the subletting tenant) would be the obvious answer, since their new part IV tenancy to the landlord is the basis on which they are entitled to reside there.

It would depend on the way the original lease specified the means of payment of rent. In some leases the landlord specifies that there is to be a single payment from the property and it is up to the tenants to gather the money between them and transfer it.

Iscreamkone

4 tenants given a long notice to quit.

2 tenant decides to leave before the others

The remaining 2 want to bring in 2 licensees to help pay the rent until the notice expires.

The landlord refuses permission to bring a new tenant or licensee into the property.

What happens next? Can the tenants just bring someone into the house without permission?

meijin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123267613#Comment_123267613

According to RTA landlord needs to be informed about residents (licensees).

I don't believe permission for getting a licensee is strictly required.

And in the current situation, what can the LL do? Give you notice? Already gave one…

Claw Hammer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123268810#Comment_123268810

In most leases tenants may not bring in licencees without the consent of the landlord.

Whether such a clause is in the lease or not, the landlord must be told who is residing in the property.

If the landlord finds a licensee in the property in breach of this requirement they can serve a warning letter and follow it a breach of condition termination, which is 28 days so it might speed up the termination. The 2 tenants who moved out can still be made pay the rent until the tenancy ends.

DFB-D

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123268810#Comment_123268810

Correct analysis!

Iscreamkone

But if the tenant informs the landlord of the licensee, then the landlord can’t legally to anything about it?

meijin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123276920#Comment_123276920

landlord can (even if knowing it will not stand):

• give warning of an alleged breach
• give notice of termination for the breach
• file a dispute with RTB for overholding, or tenants can dispute the notice of termination

but the situation is that tenants are already under notice… giving them a new notice and going through RTB process will not be any quicker than waiting until the expiration of the existing notice

actually, even if tenants don't inform the landlord, he still needs to give a warning first

meijin

who was on the lease? all 4? or each person has a separate lease?

and who remains on the lease after the 2 left?

Iscreamkone

4 on the rtb registration

2 moving on - want to bring in 2 licensees to cover rent until tenancy expires.

This could be 4 licensees before it ends

Claw Hammer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123276920#Comment_123276920

It depends on the written lease. Most have clauses forbidding it. Termination for breach of condition has a shorter notice period than most other grounds for termination.