Which jeep.

mengele

Budget of around 15k. Don't want a crew cab as they are 2 long. Will occasionally be pulling a trailer (maybe once a month on average) so want something that will pull 3 tonne when required.

Which one of the following
1. Mitsubishi pajero 3.2
2. Toyota landcruiser 3.0
3. Vw touareg 3.0

The touareg seems to be better value than the other 2. Could get a much fresher touareg for the money as well.

The jeep will only be doing around 8k a year and mostly very short journeys.

Albert Johnson

I'd vote for the Toyota, there's a reason they're so popular. Your budget should stretch to a fresh example circa 10 year old that should last for years if minded. The Land cruiser are a reliable and comfortable work horse imo. They have there faults as do all jeeps but if serviced and minded there almost bombproof for decades.

Pros:
•Reliable
•Comfortable
•Good towing ability
•Large selection available second hand
•Parts are easily sourced

Cons
•Well minded examples are relatively expensive
•Fuel efficiency isn't exceptional
•Toyota parts aren't cheap

wrangler

mengele wrote: »

Budget of around 15k. Don't want a crew cab as they are 2 long. Will occasionally be pulling a trailer (maybe once a month on average) so want something that will pull 3 tonne when required.

Which one of the following
1. Mitsubishi pajero 3.2
2. Toyota landcruiser 3.0
3. Vw touareg 3.0

The touareg seems to be better value than the other 2. Could get a much fresher touareg for the money as well.

The jeep will only be doing around 8k a year and mostly very short journeys.

The toureg has been nicknamed the ''Toe Rag'' around here , are they four wheel drive.
Mitsubishii are usually good value, I don't think toyotas are worth the extra value as secondhands but there's huge demand for them,

AgriLad

If it was me with them requirements, I’d get which ever one is best on fuel and cheapest to run. Considering you aren’t doing heavy work with it

mycro2013

AgriLad wrote: »

If it was me with them requirements, I’d get which ever one is best on fuel and cheapest to run. Considering you aren’t doing heavy work with it

Isuzu Dmax. Your 15 grand would nearly stretch to a 15 reg.

Bass Reeves

Is it a seated version you are buying

Nekarsulm

mycro2013 wrote: »

Isuzu Dmax. Your 15 grand would nearly stretch to a 15 reg.

Gets my vote too, but the OP dosen't want a crew-cab.

selectamatic

Of the above I'd probably go for the Landcruiser.


A Land Rover Discovery 4 would just creep into budget and could be worth considering as they're a good bit more reliable than the discovery 3.

Bmw x5 worth a look too.

148multi

Would the gearbox stand up to the towing

Nekarsulm

X5 is almost 100hp stronger than a 3.0 d4d Landcruiser....

mengele

Nekarsulm wrote: »

Gets my vote too, but the OP dosen't want a crew-cab.

I definitely don't want a crew cab. The Toyotas just seem so expensive for what you get. You won't be getting as new a one compared to the pajero or touareg. And the mileage is nearly always massive.

Mpg doesn't really matter because it won't be clocking up that much. Just want something that is fairly trouble free and that I might get 10 or 15 years out of. Have a good car . Jeep is just for farm work.

greysides

Nekarsulm wrote: »

X5 is almost 100hp stronger than a 3.0 d4d Landcruiser....

Thinking of the engines of the Off-Roaders that are well regarded.. the 2.8 TD Daihatsu, the 3.1TD Trooper, the 3.0 TD and 4.2 HZ Toyota engines... these are old school, big engines working easy, not working to the pin of their collar and not very efficient. I'd rather an engine that's a cart horse than a donkey doing the work of a horse.
Off the two above, I'd go for the one intended for the type of work to be done.

Markcheese

If you're only doing 8000 miles, with little towing, then don't worry too much about fuel efficency...

Still waters

pajero all the way imo, 3.5 ton towing capacity

Nekarsulm

mengele wrote: »

I definitely don't want a crew cab. The Toyotas just seem so expensive for what you get. You won't be getting as new a one compared to the pajero or touareg. And the mileage is nearly always massive.

Mpg doesn't really matter because it won't be clocking up that much. Just want something that is fairly trouble free and that I might get 10 or 15 years out of. Have a good car . Jeep is just for farm work.

Put 10,000 of your budget back in the bank, buy a SWB 3.0 trooper, as new as you can get, and have a 3.1 transplanted into it.
Get chassis Dinitrolled, and it'll do you ten years easy.

Bass Reeves

Not sure what you are towing but looking at fuel efficiency even at only 8000 miles a year the difference between something doing 28 mpg and 40 mpg is over 600 euro/year. More than likely that is half your towing costs for the year if you used a contractor maybe even a tad more.

selectamatic

The m57 or n57 3.0 six cylinder diesel engines in the x5's are well able for their power. They're in a pretty mild state of tune compared to what they can run reliably at.

To be honest OP your driving situation isn't going to suit any vehicle with a modern emissions compliant diesel. Getting rid of the emissions stuff if it gives any bother could be an option but there's a lot to be said for older type yokes.

The 3.0 to 3.1 trooper option is an interesting one.

Nekarsulm

selectamatic wrote: »

The m57 or n57 3.0 six cylinder diesel engines in the x5's are well able for their power. They're in a pretty mild state of tune compared to what they can run reliably at.

To be honest OP your driving situation isn't going to suit any vehicle with a modern emissions compliant diesel. Getting rid of the emissions stuff if it gives any bother could be an option but there's a lot to be said for older type yokes.

The 3.0 to 3.1 trooper option is an interesting one.

The emission control junk on modern diesels has engineered all the reliability out of then.

I have a chap removing the 3.1 from an old lwb Trooper at the minute (rotten chassis, and then chipped a tooth on the rear diff), and next he is going to fit it into a 2003 LWB one with a buggered engine but an "as new" chassis and low miles.
His bill will be about 1000, the 3.0 cost me a 1000, and the old 3.1 cost me nothing as I had drove it for years

The11Duff

Go to your local mart and see what the prefered jeep is. Probably be the Landcruiser and for good reason

Markcheese

Seen a few short wheel base Landrover defenders on done deal, there'd probably more spent on maintenance... But they'll hold their value...

anthony500_1

Markcheese wrote:

Seen a few short wheel base Landrover defenders on done deal, there'd probably more spent on maintenance... But they'll hold their value...

The swb 90" defenders are not rated to pull 3t as far as I know. Think there more like 2.5 or 2.8t they do hold there value and in my opinion are far more over priced then any landcruiser out there for what they are.

greysides

If the Defender is worth considering, check the braked towing weight. I think its more like 3.5 tonnes.

Nekarsulm

greysides wrote: »

If the Defender is worth considering, check the braked towing weight. I think its more like 3.5 tonnes.

If you value your spine, your left knee and your right elbow, stay away from a defender...
Borrowed a neighbours 2007 90 pick-up last summer for half an hour to pick up the child from the school bus... bloody hell, worst thing I've sat in in two decades...
Rough and giddy, hopping about on the road.
Hand brake lever stuck in your left leg/knee, you need the window rolled down because there is no room for your right arm , and a dog of a gearbox..
And that is a well maintained one...
Six miles was plenty, couldn't wait to give it back.
(And we had an early (1985) 90 pick-up for all of the 1990's)

greysides

Nekarsulm wrote: »

If you value your spine, your left knee and your right elbow, stay away from a defender...

I like the look of them, the history of them and authenticity of them. But I drive a LandCruiser.

wrangler

greysides wrote: »

I like the look of them, the history of them and authenticity of them. But I drive a LandCruiser.

If you want to go out into the desert drive a landrover.......if you want to get back, drive a toyota

maidhc

I love my 2003 Landcruiser. It is the very last of the old shape ones, but is still a very accomplished vehicle that is reasonably comfortable and good to drive. Maintenance costs can be a bit high, but it is faultlessly reliable. I bought it 4 years ago and it is worth as much now as it was I paid for it.

Albert Johnson

Nekarsulm wrote: »

greysides wrote: »

If the Defender is worth considering, check the braked towing weight. I think its more like 3.5 tonnes.

If you value your spine, your left knee and your right elbow, stay away from a defender...
Borrowed a neighbours 2007 90 pick-up last summer for half an hour to pick up the child from the school bus... bloody hell, worst thing I've sat in in two decades...
Rough and giddy, hopping about on the road.
Hand brake lever stuck in your left leg/knee, you need the window rolled down because there is no room for your right arm , and a dog of a gearbox..
And that is a well maintained one...
Six miles was plenty, couldn't wait to give it back.
(And we had an early (1985) 90 pick-up for all of the 1990's)

I always wondered why Land Rover owner's drove everywhere with the driver's window down regardless of the weather. About the time I bought my Land cruiser (02 lwb) I saw a lovely 04 Defender 90 on done deal. Having never sat in a Defender before I decided it was best to take a quick test drive of one before driving half way across the country in hopes of buying one.

A friend of friend a few miles away had a 01 reg 90 so I went to his yard one evening to try it out. Having sat into it the first impressions weren't great. The superb ground clearance was achieved by having no foot well, sitting with my legs out straight and hip trouble are not compatible. The gear stick occupied the same space as my left knee and the hand brake was in an awkward position.

Having come this fair I decided to soldier on and swung in the door with the intention of a quick spin around the local area. The door bounced open again and for a minute I thought something was blocking it from closing. Closer inspection revealed the something to be my right arm and shoulder, obviously who ever designed the cab layout had neither a left leg or a right arm. The mystery as to the drivers window being left open was soon solved and to be honest I was happier not knowing. At this stage I didn't even bother starting the engine, promptly thanked it's owner and crossed Land Rover off the search list. The whole experience gave me a better understanding of why Land Rover fell out of popularity upon the arrival of other jeep brands to the market.

monseiur

Had a quick look on Done Deal - there's a 10 year old beige Land Cruiser for sale in Dublin with just 75,000 miles, it looks spotless It's at the top of your budget but as previous poster said they're bullet proof and worth the few dollars more in the long run.

SuperTortoise

Just my opinion, i think landcruisers are overrated and overpriced, i don't think they have anything on a pajero and yet they are a few grand more expensive.

Don't know much about defenders, mate has one he reckons they break down a lot but on the plus side they are so simply you can fix them yourself.

Mad_maxx

SuperTortoise wrote: »

Just my opinion, i think landcruisers are overrated and overpriced, i don't think they have anything on a pajero and yet they are a few grand more expensive.

Don't know much about defenders, mate has one he reckons they break down a lot but on the plus side they are so simply you can fix them yourself.

Landcruiser are superior in every way to a pajero, the pajero sounds like a tractor, very uncomfortable compared to a cruiser as well

Defender has a cult following but are truly awful to drive, terrible gearbox too, they hold their value even better than the landcruiser however

Land rover discovery are as comfortable as a landcruiser but fairly unreliable, they are not cheap enough, they are nicely finished however

Still waters

Mad_maxx wrote: »

Landcruiser are superior in every way to a pajero, the pajero sounds like a tractor, very uncomfortable compared to a cruiser as well

Defender has a cult following but are truly awful to drive, terrible gearbox too, they hold their value even better than the landcruiser however

Land rover discovery are as comfortable as a landcruiser but fairly unreliable, they are not cheap enough, they are nicely finished however

ive owned both, honestly there isn't much between them, the landcruiser is fine for farm towing but hasn't the guts for anything over 3 ton, I pull 3.5 ton regularly and I just couldn't reccomend the landcruiser for it, I'm driving a pajero now and for towing power it leaves the landcruiser behind, most lads are die hard cruiser fans, but they remind me of the scania die hards, they follow the brand and nothing more, for normal day to day farm towing and driving the cruiser is fine, most farm jeeps dont see a very hard life anyway

Mad_maxx

Still waters wrote: »

ive owned both, honestly there isn't much between them, the landcruiser is fine for farm towing but hasn't the guts for anything over 3 ton, I pull 3.5 ton regularly and I just couldn't reccomend the landcruiser for it, I'm driving a pajero now and for towing power it leaves the landcruiser behind, most lads are die hard cruiser fans, but they remind me of the scania die hards, they follow the brand and nothing more, for normal day to day farm towing and driving the cruiser is fine, most farm jeeps dont see a very hard life anyway

Very few have a need for such towing capacity, the landcruiser can happily be used to ferry people around, the pajero is extremely agricultural by comparison, it's a utility vehicle

The LWB pajero is particularly ugly

Never heard of anyone choosing Toyota for brand reasons, Toyota has always had a boring image, buy an X5 if brand recognition is important

Capra

Still waters wrote: »

ive owned both, honestly there isn't much between them, the landcruiser is fine for farm towing but hasn't the guts for anything over 3 ton, I pull 3.5 ton regularly and I just couldn't reccomend the landcruiser for it, I'm driving a pajero now and for towing power it leaves the landcruiser behind, most lads are die hard cruiser fans, but they remind me of the scania die hards, they follow the brand and nothing more, for normal day to day farm towing and driving the cruiser is fine, most farm jeeps dont see a very hard life anyway

Ah that has to be a joke! Landcruisers not able to pull over 3 tonne?!?! A neighbour of mine comically overloads his 2008 one every week. I've seen it pulling 5 ton regularly. I wouldnt recommend it and i certainly wouldnt like to try stopping with it but its well able to do it. Landcruisers regularly pull weights far in excess of what they are legally allowed to.

OP, I think you would have to be a lunatic to even consider a Touareg. They just are not in the same category as either the Pajero or Landcruiser. Its a car on stilts. It doesn't have the same level of durability designed into it at all and does not have a proper 4 wheel drive system. They have a nice engine and interior but that is about it. Also they are very heavy on fuel. My brother had a V6 one from new and it got approx 24mpg at best and was an absolute pile of junk. I wouldnt even take a loan of an out of warranty one.

Still waters

Capra wrote: »

Ah that has to be a joke! Landcruisers not able to pull over 3 tonne?!?! A neighbour of mine comically overloads his 2008 one every week. I've seen it pulling 5 ton regularly. I wouldnt recommend it and i certainly wouldnt like to try stopping with it but its well able to do it. Landcruisers regularly pull weights far in excess of what they are legally allowed to..

Not a joke, just an observation from driving the 2, I have a big pull out of my yard and the landcruiser would be at the pin of its collar trying to come up out of it with 3 5 ton, the pajero does it with relative ease, the biggest thing I found with the landcruiser was its geared a bit too highly for the heavy stuff, my opinion only and the landcruiser is a serious machine to go and very reliable.

Albert Johnson

Seeing as we're on the subject of towing and hill starts, do many lads actually use the low box in such scenarios? I know it puts extra pressure on the drive train especially if cornering but it saves burning the clutch and generally dogging the jeep. I use it if taking off on a steep hill with a load or reversing up a hill loaded ect.

Base price

Albert Johnson wrote: »

Seeing as we're on the subject of towing and hill starts, do many lads actually use the low box in such scenarios? I know it puts extra pressure on the drive train especially if cornering but it saves burning the clutch and generally dogging the jeep. I use it if taking off on a steep hill with a load or reversing up a hill loaded ect.

I would always use the low box when starting off on a hill and especially when reversing with a load in the trailer. No point burning your clutch out by not using the low box.

bigroad

What about a grand Jeep Cherokee 3.0crd merc engine and box.
Or a late model Nissan patrol.
For me if I had the need for such a vehicle I think it would have to be a Toyota lancruiser Amazon 4.2td auto.resale values seem to be going up and not down like most stuff.

Albert Johnson

bigroad wrote: »

What about a grand Jeep Cherokee 3.0crd merc engine and box.
Or a late model Nissan patrol.
For me if I had the need for such a vehicle I think it would have to be a Toyota lancruiser Amazon 4.2td auto.resale values seem to be going up and not down like most stuff.

I agree regarding the Amazon they look to be a serious weapon and only seem to be increasing in value. The op's budget would stretch to a clean example that should be reliable for years to come. I'd love an early 2000's commercial spec Amazon, be the real job for comfort and reliability imo. There mental money though for what's still an older jeep, I wonder what were they new? I can't think of that many vehicles that hold there value as well as the cruiser and Amazon considering there so plentiful and still being produced.

bigroad

Albert Johnson wrote: »

I agree regarding the Amazon they look to be a serious weapon and only seem to be increasing in value. The op's budget would stretch to a clean example that should be reliable for years to come. I'd love an early 2000's commercial spec Amazon, be the real job for comfort and reliability imo. There mental money though for what's still an older jeep, I wonder what were they new? I can't think of that many vehicles that hold there value as well as the cruiser and Amazon considering there so plentiful and still being produced.

From memory I think they were the same price if no more than a Range Rover.

orm0nd

Still waters wrote: »

Not a joke, just an observation from driving the 2, I have a big pull out of my yard and the landcruiser would be at the pin of its collar trying to come up out of it with 3 5 ton, the pajero does it with relative ease, the biggest thing I found with the landcruiser was its geared a bit too highly for the heavy stuff, my opinion only and the landcruiser is a serious machine to go and very reliable.

Mate of mine bought an automatic LC.. says he'll never buy a manual again. Geared way too high for towing.

Albert Johnson

orm0nd wrote: »

Still waters wrote: »

Not a joke, just an observation from driving the 2, I have a big pull out of my yard and the landcruiser would be at the pin of its collar trying to come up out of it with 3 5 ton, the pajero does it with relative ease, the biggest thing I found with the landcruiser was its geared a bit too highly for the heavy stuff, my opinion only and the landcruiser is a serious machine to go and very reliable.

Mate of mine bought an automatic LC.. says he'll never buy a manual again. Geared way too high for towing.

I'm tempted to try an auto LC the next time around although I've never owned anything automatic before. A few lads I know made the switch and all but one swear by the auto, as above they rate it miles ahead for towing. I'd be hoping they'd be better minded over a manual and be more likely to have been a form of "Chelsea tractor" in a previous life.

Base price

orm0nd wrote: »

Mate of mine bought an automatic LC.. says he'll never buy a manual again. Geared way too high for towing.

A friend traded in his older manual for a newer automatic last year and he loves it. He reckons that there is little difference in diesel consumption. He does tow with it but nothing over 1500kgs on a regular basis.

selectamatic

orm0nd wrote: »

Mate of mine bought an automatic LC.. says he'll never buy a manual again. Geared way too high for towing.

I've an uncle with a 2008 3.0d4d automatic Landcruiser and a company 3.0tdi dsg Amarok reckons he couldn't bring himself to return to towing with a manual.

Same man has had manual Isuzu dmax's and manual Landcruisers before making the switch.

Base price

As an elder lemon I have an aversion to automatic jeeps. In the days of yore they were gutless, diesel guzzling vehicles that couldn't pull themselves outta of a wet puddle.
However times have moved on and nowday's most commercial tractor units/rigids come with auto transmission as standard.

Mad_maxx

bigroad wrote: »

What about a grand Jeep Cherokee 3.0crd merc engine and box.
Or a late model Nissan patrol.
For me if I had the need for such a vehicle I think it would have to be a Toyota lancruiser Amazon 4.2td auto.resale values seem to be going up and not down like most stuff.

Those jeep grand cherokee were the biggest pile of junk prior to 2011, since fiat took them over, they have improved no end, pity the dealership is so small, fantastic looking jeep

The pre 2011 ones had a duff Mercedes engine, the kind ssangyong had, avoid

Mad_maxx

Albert Johnson wrote: »

I agree regarding the Amazon they look to be a serious weapon and only seem to be increasing in value. The op's budget would stretch to a clean example that should be reliable for years to come. I'd love an early 2000's commercial spec Amazon, be the real job for comfort and reliability imo. There mental money though for what's still an older jeep, I wonder what were they new? I can't think of that many vehicles that hold there value as well as the cruiser and Amazon considering there so plentiful and still being produced.

None of those will hold their value in the future, government will ramp up the war on high co2 engines

Mad_maxx

Base price wrote: »

As an elder lemon I have an aversion to automatic jeeps. In the days of yore they were gutless, diesel guzzling vehicles that couldn't pull themselves outta of a wet puddle.
However times have moved on and nowday's most commercial tractor units/rigids come with auto transmission as standard.

As a nation, we have an extraordinary aversion to automatics, I'd have nothing else myself

They are much harder on fuel if towing ng however

Base price

Mad_maxx wrote: »

As a nation, we have an extraordinary aversion to automatics, I'd have nothing else myself

They are much harder on fuel if towing ng however

Do you reckon that the newer automatic tractor units/rigid lorries are harder on diesel then their older counterparts. TBH I wouldn't know cause we don't have any - our two lorries are older with manual gearboxes, no adblue or fancy engine/transmission sensors.

Still waters

Base price wrote: »

our two lorries are older with manual gearboxes, no adblue or fancy engine/transmission sensors.

Hold onto them as long as you can

Mad_maxx

Base price wrote: »

Do you reckon that the newer automatic tractor units/rigid lorries are harder on diesel then their older counterparts. TBH I wouldn't know cause we don't have any - our two lorries are older with manual gearboxes, no adblue or fancy engine/transmission sensors.

I honestly don't know but all new lorries are automatic

Bass Reeves

Base price wrote: »

A friend traded in his older manual for a newer automatic last year and he loves it. He reckons that there is little difference in diesel consumption. He does tow with it but nothing over 1500kgs on a regular basis.

In that case the Jeep size is a lifestyle choice. Nearly all SUV with diesel engines above 1.5 would legally tow that. I would consider an LC too big for that unless he would need the 4WD capability or ground clearance. Mind you I was surprised latelyy with where a Suzuki Jimmy went and it required clearance as well as 4WD.
I even wonder would OP require a 4WD with the capability of a LC. He says he only uses it for towing once a month. How often is the 3ton capability required.The requirements of a jeep that size is marginal even using it to tow 3 ton once every month. If he only goes 3 ton a few times a year any of 3-4 mid sized jeep's would do him and pay someone to do the few overweight loads.