15 penalty points! Will all 15 be cancelled after ban or will 3 remain?

Bandar Seri Begawan

Unfortunately, I have accumulated 15 penalty points. How you ask? As the maximum is 12. Here's how.

Early last week, I received an official-looking letter in the post, I opened it and to my dismay I noticed that I was clocked at 64 km/h in a 60 km/h zone, so I took my medicine and planned to pay it the following day when my wages went in.

The following day when I checked the post box in my house there was another letter in a similar envelope, lo, another speeding fine! This time 63 km/h in a 60 zone in the same location at a slightly later time on the same day. More letters rolled in over the next two days. It turns out I was caught 5 times in total!

Here's how it happened. I was helping a friend of mine move house, I brought his stuff in a van with a trailer attached to it from his old gaff to his new house. I passed the same spot several times, I didn't notice any van, it must've been well hidden. I dove up and down the same road 10 times (5 return journeys).

My speeding tickets say:
64 km/h in a 60 km/h zone
63 km/h in a 60 km/h zone
63 km/h in a 60 km/h zone
64 km/h in a 60 km/h zone
65 km/h in a 60 km/h zone

My query is as follows. Ordinarily, penalty points will last three years from the date that they are added to your licence. If you accumulate 12 points, they will all expire after your ban is lifted. However, in my case where I have accumulated 15 points, will all 15 be lifted after my ban or will only 12 be lifted, thus leaving me 3 after my ban?

I am just slightly miffed that I face the prospect of being banned from driving for 6 months for exceeding the speed limit by a maximum 5 km/h. Equivalent to driving between 126 km/h and 130 km/h on a motorway.

Does anyone have any insight?

Snotty

**Gets popcorn**

goldenhoarde

http://www.rsa.ie/en/RSA/Licensed-Drivers/Penalty-points/How-it-works-why-it-matters/


You will loose license and all point s expire at the same time

80 * 5 and 6 months ban

judeboy101

Will ur friend not take a few of those points for ya?

Bandar Seri Begawan

judeboy101 wrote: »

Will ur friend not take a few of those points for ya?

Unfortunately, he doesn't have a licence. Hence, why I was driving his stuff.

sdanseo wrote: »

Seeing as you're looking at a ban automatically by doing nothing, there is very little to lose by going to court and asking for some leniency.

Except for a larger fine, and 25 points instead of 15 (5 x 5 instead of 5 x 3).
That'd probably mean a year-long ban with one point remaining after the ban.

Happyilylost

Go to court. I don't have a link but if you Google Mary Fahy (was a judge in Galway) dismisses penalties points you'll see it's happened before.

Rologyro

The vans give you 10% leeway I believe. So you’d have to have been doing over 66.

Additionally speedometers tend to overstate your speed by a few km. I’ve definitely done over 65 in a 60 zone with a speed van and nothing came in the post.

Aside from that - try bringing it to court and ask them to verify when the camera was last calibrated.

artanevilla

If it were me I'd go to court cap in hand and look for some leniency from the judge.

OP registered today, therefore I award 2/10.

diceyreilly

They will all disappear but, your next insurance renewal is going to be telephone numbers.

lbc2019

Deleted User wrote: »

OP registered today, therefore I award 2/10.

-2

Bandar Seri Begawan

Rologyro wrote: »

Additionally speedometers tend to overstate your speed by a few km.

Not mine, I've verified mine against my phone speedometer and my dash cam footage and it it spot on.

Rologyro wrote: »

Aside from that - try bringing it to court and ask them to verify when the camera was last calibrated.

They don't have to be calibrated, the Garda can even prosecute you and say you were speeding "by eye".

Samuel T. Cogley

I thought you only got one set of points a day. No idea why it's just in the back of my mind, or maybe it's if you've a number of offences in the same stop. I'd have a word with a solicitor and see if it's typical for them to show some leeway in court.

diceyreilly

They will all disappear but, your next insurance renewal is going to be telephone numbers.

Samuel T. Cogley

Bandar Seri Begawan wrote: »

Not mine, I've verified mine against my phone speedometer and my dash cam footage and it it spot on.

Did you do this while holding the phone and Laptop while driving? :pac:

Rologyro

Bandar Seri Begawan wrote: »

They don't have to be calibrated, the Garda can even prosecute you and say you were speeding "by eye".

Yes, they do, you can ask for a Speed Camera Calibration Certificate in court. Then it’s not up to The Gardaí.

Bandar Seri Begawan

Rologyro wrote: »

Yes, they do, you can ask for a Speed Camera Calibration Certificate in court. Then it’s not up to The Gardaí.

You're obviously more knowledgeable on the topic than I am but I could have sworn blind that there is no legal requirement to be calibrated. I stand corrected if you insist otherwise.

Bandar Seri Begawan

Samuel T. Cogley wrote: »

Did you do this while holding the phone and Laptop while driving? :pac:

Phone in a cradle with GPS app open. I held my speed for a few metres and reviewed my dashcam footage with a speed stamp and they are all spot on.

mgbgt1978

Rologyro wrote: »

The vans give you 10% leeway I believe. So you’d have to have been doing over 66.

Additionally speedometers tend to overstate your speed by a few km. I’ve definitely done over 65 in a 60 zone with a speed van and nothing came in the post.

Aside from that - try bringing it to court and ask them to verify when the camera was last calibrated.

Afraid not. The most leeway you can expect from a gosafe van is 2 km/h (used to be slightly higher until they got newer equipment with more accurate calibration) . Anything over that is subject to the leniency of the processing office in Thurles.
The Garda speed vans allegedly do normally give slightly more leeway.

OP, some cynical feckers on here. Prove them wrong by uploading a copy of the lowest speed fine. You might need to post a few more times to be able to do that. But, think of the sweet victory of proving them wrong...

Bandar Seri Begawan

Deleted User wrote: »

OP, some cynical feckers on here. Prove them wrong by uploading a copy of the lowest speed fine. You might need to post a few more times to be able to do that. But, think of the sweet victory of proving them wrong...

There is nothing on my screen for a link to upload images. I can't even screenshot it to show you haha

maddness

Someone’s a bit bored

Rologyro

Bandar Seri Begawan wrote: »

You're obviously more knowledgeable on the topic than I am but I could have sworn blind that there is no legal requirement to be calibrated. I stand corrected if you insist otherwise.

It would have to be calibrated correctly to give an accurate reading. But if the Gardaí are unable to provide a certificate, or if they do and it turns out the camera wasn’t calibrated, the judge could dismiss the case.

It’s worth a shot, I saw here that you can request the Speed Camera Calibration Certificate under a Freedom if Information request (although this example is from the UK).

https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/speed_camera_calibration_certifi_2

Bandar Seri Begawan

Bandar Seri Begawan wrote: »

There is nothing on my screen for a link to upload images. I can't even screenshot it to show you haha

You'll be able to do it after 25 posts. Post away on this thread until you can.



You can then use the upload button .

mycro2013

Rologyro wrote: »

It would have to be calibrated correctly to give an accurate reading. But if the Gardaí are unable to provide a certificate, or if they do and it turns out the camera wasn’t calibrated, the judge could dismiss the case.

It’s worth a shot, I saw here that you can request the Speed Camera Calibration Certificate under a Freedom if Information request (although this example is from the UK).

https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/speed_camera_calibration_certifi_2

The van is supposedly calibrated before it is put into operation. The correct procedure requires a Garda car to pass the location at set speed to ensure the reading is within the margin of error.

Contact a solicitor for some advice.

Rologyro

mycro2013 wrote: »

The van is supposedly calibrated before it is put into operation. The correct procedure requires a Garda car to pass the location at set speed to ensure the reading is within the margin of error.

Contact a solicitor for some advice.

That’s sounds even better then, cause it’s another thing that mightn’t have been done.

s7ryf3925pivug

Your friend is driving to a bad neighbourhood. I don't remember the last time I passed a speed van without multiple warning flashes from oncoming drivers.

Talk to solicitors, guards, whoever else might help you in your silly and hilarious predicament.

mgbgt1978

mycro2013 wrote: »

The van is supposedly calibrated before it is put into operation. The correct procedure requires a Garda car to pass the location at set speed to ensure the reading is within the margin of error.

Contact a solicitor for some advice.

..and how does the Garda driving past know exactly what speed he is doing ?
All speedos over-read by differing amounts. That is a legal requirement None of them are an exact indicator of the actual speed of the car.

Needs Must

This is a wind up.

amcalester

Rologyro wrote: »

That’s sounds even better then, cause it’s another thing that mightn’t have been done.

There’s no requirement for the Gardaí to show that the camera was calibrated or in good working order.

It is not necessary to prove that the electronic or other apparatus was accurate or in good working order.

RTA 2010 Section 81

Bandar Seri Begawan

LIGHTNING wrote: »

lads come on

I have my fine notice with person details blanked out
I'll post it when I can

antodeco

There is no legal obligation to ask for the camera calibration certificate and then get away with it. It's accepted that if you're caught, you're caught.

However, OP, I'd go to court and discuss with the judge. Explain the situation and see what happens. My only concern is that you missed a speedvan 5 times in quick succession. Regardless of how hidden it would be, if the camera can see you, you can see it. If I see ANY van parked the side of the road, I'm always much more aware to the fact it could be a speed can.

Bandar Seri Begawan

Do you really think that 5x 65 km/h in a 60 km/h zone deserves a ban? Christ.

antodeco

Bandar Seri Begawan wrote: »

Do you really think that 5x 65 km/h in a 60 km/h zone deserves a ban? Christ.

Who me?

Bandar Seri Begawan

antodeco wrote: »

Who me?

Not at all pal. Just a general rhetorical question. This is an absurd situation.

bazz26

Oh, our friend is back. Forgot the schools are on holidays now.

Bandar Seri Begawan

bazz26 wrote: »

Oh, our friend is back. Forgot the schools are on holidays now.

?

bazz26

() ()

endacl

Bandar Seri Begawan wrote: »

They don't have to be calibrated, the Garda can even prosecute you and say you were speeding "by eye".

By ear these days. A craic team of guards have been trained up to use the Doppler effect to accurately measure speed acoustically. It’s all to do with the curve of the neeeeEEEEYYOOUUUNnnnnnnnnnngggggg... as you go by.

Once the guard has been calibrated correctly, you’re goosed.

pa990

1.Get a solicitor
2. Don't pay the tickets
3.wait for summons
4.get all offences into one court sitting
5. Judge Puts on a black cap and sentences you to death
5a. Judge takes 4 speeding offences into consideration, and convicts for 1 offence.

Lawyer up

sligojoek

Speed van was there all day??

Must have had a puncture.

Miike

https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057972086

In this thread you'll find a poster "GM228" who is a THE fount of knowledge when it comes to law.

sligojoek

sligojoek wrote: »

Speed van was there all day??

Must have had a puncture.

Miike wrote: »

https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057972086

In this thread you'll find a poster "GM228" who is a THE fount of knowledge when it comes to law.

Nothing to see here, move on. OP has been discredited fairly quickly this time. Good job people.

Emmersonn

Needs Must wrote: »

This is a wind up.

Call that a windup
This is a windup
https://youtu.be/Xo0EwCh5u7c?t=16

Bigus

sligojoek wrote: »

Speed van was there all day??

Must have had a puncture.

Could be there all day if it's one of the very few left, unmarked Garda jumbo transit ones .

sligojoek

So he passed a "Jumbo" Transit 10 times and never noticed it.

StereoSound

Judge might take into account your good deed helping your friend and the fact you aren't excessively over the limit on all trips. I would let it go to court, wear a nice suit and let them see your good character. It's an unusual situation to be in. You may walk away a much happier man then paying that all now and been put off the road!

sk8board

No gatso van is processing speeding fines for being literally 1.8 mph over the limit ffs! Imagine the volume of fines over this supposed whole day too - it’ll be standing room only in the court and a camera operator told to cop themselves on

Can’t believe this has 4 pages.

DesperateDan

Bigus wrote: »

Could be there all day if it's one of the very few left, unmarked Garda jumbo transit ones .

Why are they marked I wonder. Would catch many more people and have a lot more careful driving occurring if they were all just plain white vans.

my3cents

DesperateDan wrote: »

Why are they marked I wonder. Would catch many more people and have a lot more careful driving occurring if they were all just plain white vans.

I think the point is to make people aware of the limits rather than try and catch them out /can of worms.

Miike

DesperateDan wrote: »

Why are they marked I wonder. Would catch many more people and have a lot more careful driving occurring if they were all just plain white vans.

It's less about catching people more about knowing the exist, seeing them on the roads. Catching people simply isn't enough to stop speeding. Seeing them makes people slow down. (For GoSafe)

Gardai unmarked speed traps are a different story