26ha solar farm fails planning in Kidare.

lalababa

Just saw a report that a 26ha solar farm has been rejected planning 3 miles outside Kildare town. Rejected by Kidare co.co..Because it was in a 'special character area' and would 'badly damage local landscape', would be obtrusive and basically stand out abit. It was refused by An BP on appeal.
I personally would have no problem with solar farms.
It would be good to hear a few local farmers views from Kildare.
I am not very familiar with the landscape around Kildare town, I would expect it to be reasonably flattish, homogeneous,goodish land with larger type fields and some descent aged trees on the field borders and in spots,with the odd area of bog? Mainly grass growing land.Of course the curragh aswell.

And here we are talking about climate change and this and that. Going to get fined for our energy use. Person that ownes the land would get c. 50k p.a. (??)and can still graze sheep. Like WTF?

alps

lalababa wrote: »

Just saw a report that a 26ha solar farm has been rejected planning 3 miles outside Kildare town. Rejected by Kidare co.co..Because it was in a 'special character area' and would 'badly damage local landscape', would be obtrusive and basically stand out abit. It was refused by An BP on appeal.
I personally would have no problem with solar farms.
It would be good to hear a few local farmers views from Kildare.
I am not very familiar with the landscape around Kildare town, I would expect it to be reasonably flattish, homogeneous,goodish land with larger type fields and some descent aged trees on the field borders and in spots,with the odd area of bog? Mainly grass growing land.Of course the curragh aswell.

And here we are talking about climate change and this and that. Going to get fined for our energy use. Person that ownes the land would get c. 50k p.a. (??)and can still graze sheep. Like WTF?

Veins of very heavy and some very peaty spoils west and southwest of Kildare town, and the land is undulating enough...dissapoing to see solar farms getting knocked...maybe it was just this specific site was the issue..

Cant make out how solar is viable though...

Glass fused light

lalababa wrote: »

And here we are talking about climate change and this and that. Going to get fined for our energy use. Person that ownes the land would get c. 50k p.a. (??)and can still graze sheep. Like WTF?

Its putting the equivalent of building urban city pavement and roads in a rural setting and then telling the locals to quit complaining about wanting to live on land they own because it will ruin the countryside.

alps wrote: »

Cant make out how solar is viable though...

Its partly helped by Eco-friendly policies of supplying funding and carbon credit trading

gozunda

The words used - farm + solar seems to bring about all types of eco goody visions of utopia

This is the reality


And some claim agriculture is destroying habitats etc ...

Not much by way of any habitat of anything left with 26 hectares of that tbh.

These 'farms' would be better situated to brownfield sites in urban areas- where easy access to existing transmission lines etc means that there is less need for stand alone installations such as proposed.

Panch18

gozunda wrote: »

The words used - farm + solar seems to bring about all types of eco goody visions of utopia

This is the reality


And some claim agriculture is destroying habitats etc ...

Not much by way of any habitat of anything left with 34 hectares of that tbh.

These 'farms' would be better situated to brownfield sites in urban areas- where easy access to existing transmission lines etc means that there is less need for stand alone installations such as proposed.

The thing about these “farms” is that the eco warriors in the cities can feel good about themselves because they are using solar energy which is “green”. Some joke

yesto24

Does anyone know where the proposed site was?

Jupiter Mulligan

yesto24 wrote: »

Does anyone know where the proposed site was?

"The subject site lies approximately 4.2km to the north west of the town of Kildare and 4.5km to the south east of Rathangan, in the townlands of Guidenstown South and Rahilla Glebe, Co. Kildare. The Grand Canal is located approximately 3km to the north of the site. The R401 Regional Road runs to the west and south of the site and the M7 Motorway lies approximately 5km to the south. The area is rural in its nature and there are a number of one-off houses within 1km of the site.

1.2. The lands contained within the proposed development site are currently agricultural lands and are bound to the south and south west by hedgerows with commercial forestry to the north. The Dunmurry Springs Golf Course is located immediately to the south of the site.

http://www.pleanala.ie/documents/reports/303/R303577.pdf

Say my name

Electricity generation map of Europe here.

https://www.electricitymap.org/

We're producing most of today's power from wind atm even exporting it to Britain.
But if you keep a watch on the site it doesn't always work like that and Moneypoint with imported Columbian coal is used as the back-up when the wind doesn't blow.
With solar you need a large level site with good transmission lines nearby.
I haven't a clue why Kildare was turned down? Lack of vision and just that the planners are not used to this sort of thing in this country?

listermint

This is the reality of solar farms. Not some of the stuff that is written above.



https://reneweconomy.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2016/12/sheep-with-solar-panels-580x358.jpeg

Twenty Grand

Thought the panels were jacked up off the ground so livestock can graze underneath?

gozunda

listermint wrote: »

This is the reality of solar farms. Not some of the stuff that is written above.



https://reneweconomy.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2016/12/sheep-with-solar-panels-580x358.jpeg

Multiply that by 26 ha and it looks a hell of a lot more like this ...

Glass fused light

listermint wrote: »

This is the reality of solar farms. Not some of the stuff that is written above.

Which parts are you objecting to?

Say my name

gozunda wrote: »

Multiply that by 26 ha and it looks a hell of a lot more like this ...

How is that any worse than a 100 acre field of barley or wheat that probably would have been there before?
At least now there's a species rich grazing for sheep without artificial fertilizer and generating electricity for the country.

gctest50

They make grand shelter from the rain for little animals

I don't see why a farmer should need planning permission for them on his own land, they're not like windmills

Twenty Grand

gozunda wrote: »

Multiply that by 26 ha and it looks a hell of a lot more like this ...
]

I don't really see what's wrong with that.

Is it any worse than having fallow or unused land?
Plenty of farmers planting woodland or not farming at all. Would have thought this was a better use.

Glass fused light

gctest50 wrote: »

They make grand shelter from the rain for little animals

I don't see why a farmer should need planning permission for them on his own land, they're not like windmills

I don't see why farmers have to get permission for houses on his own land they make grand little shelters for humans who keep little animals.

gctest50

It's only 26 hectares of panels

500 yards by 500 yards, blink and you'd miss it



Boeings factory is about 40 hectares

foxy farmer

I read somewhere that over 80 solar farms got planning approval in the last few yrs but none have begun construction yet.

lalababa

What arguments are against solar farms? 1. Unsightly 2. Not efficient.3. something about bio-diversity. 4?
What arguments hold a candle to the status quo alternative of burning coal and gas?

Panch18

lalababa wrote: »

What arguments are against solar farms? 1. Unsightly 2. Not efficient.3. something about bio-diversity. 4?
What arguments hold a candle to the status quo alternative of burning coal and gas?

Just because coal is a pollutant doesn’t mean that solar is the best way forward

For mean solar is grand at a small level but not for national supply if it means these horrific solar farms

foxy farmer

gctest50 wrote: »

It's only 26 hectares of panels

500 yards by 500 yards, blink and you'd miss it



Boeings factory is about 40 hectares

Nearly 65 acres of panels actually

Cattlepen

I’m from Kildare. I would have no problem with this going in beside me. If it works it’s a great use of space.
Kildare county council are a law unto themselves. Nothing would surprise me with them. I have worked the farm full time here since I left school and in my mid forties decided to leave the mother and build a house. I was three years looking for planning and a lot of expense and anguish. They actually said I had no reason to live in the area even though they were provided with very large stock number details by the Dept of ag and teagasc. The power the planners have is ridiculous

listermint

Glass fused light wrote: »

Which parts are you objecting to?

These farms can be placed on existing livestock land. Doubling its use.

TooOldBoots

Cattlepen wrote: »

I’m from Kildare. I would have no problem with this going in beside me. If it works it’s a great use of space.

I suppose you'd have no objection to a halting site along side you as well.
Its all great and grand until it devalues your property and you get solar reflection in your window too for good measure

Twenty Grand

TooOldBoots wrote: »

I suppose you'd have no objection to a halting site along side you as well.
Its all great and grand until it devalues your property and you get solar reflection in your window too for good measure

Solar farm =\= halting site.

Rabble rabble.

lalababa

Panch18 wrote: »

Just because coal is a pollutant doesn’t mean that solar is the best way forward

For mean solar is grand at a small level but not for national supply if it means these horrific solar farms

What is the best way forward then? And what is horrible about solar farms?

lalababa

4. Solar deflection...i.e. (I think) shiny glinting when you look at it from a particular angle or would it be most angles(never saw one myself)

Question: just driving Cork to Dungarvan today and noticed many a shiny field with the plastic they use for maze etc. Would solar be any worse/unsightly?

Jupiter Mulligan

lalababa wrote: »

4. Solar deflection...i.e. (I think) shiny glinting when you look at it from a particular angle or would it be most angles(never saw one myself)

Question: just driving Cork to Dungarvan today and noticed many a shiny field with the plastic they use for maze etc. Would solar be any worse/unsightly?

Maybe that's the solution; just build the solar farm and when the planners come around tell them that it's only shiny plastic covering the crops!

Waffletraktor

Say my name wrote: »

How is that any worse than a 100 acre field of barley or wheat that probably would have been there before?
At least now there's a species rich grazing for sheep without artificial fertilizer and generating electricity for the country.

Could easily be used in style of traditional hay meadow and wildflowers as little input just washing panels once a year keep the grass down. Much better use for the place than these farms running a few donkeys to collect bps that are unable to generate income otherwise.

Localish farm has rented out a few acres for backup generators as gas mains runs by the field and high voltage line overhead. So a couple of acres of concrete put down...

_blaaz

Theres planning permission in for a solar panel farm of 500 acres near the cousins house in waterford

lalababa

Ireland uses 27 Billion kwhs p.a., if 1/5th of Leitrim or 120sq. miles was solar farmed it would do it? During the day😠anyhows. How are my calculations?

yosemitesam1

Waffletraktor wrote: »

Could easily be used in style of traditional hay meadow and wildflowers as little input just washing panels once a year keep the grass down. Much better use for the place than these farms running a few donkeys to collect bps that are unable to generate income otherwise.

Localish farm has rented out a few acres for backup generators as gas mains runs by the field and high voltage line overhead. So a couple of acres of concrete put down...

Does much concrete have to be played for them and is it straight forward enough to remove them?
They seem a much better alternative to questionable bioenergy/AD

Birdnuts

lalababa wrote: »

Ireland uses 27 Billion kwhs p.a., if 1/5th of Leitrim or 120sq. miles was solar farmed it would do it? During the day😠anyhows. How are my calculations?

Problem with solar and wind is that they rarely produce energy at peak demand times ie. cold winter nights. They also need near constant back-up from conventional power stations. Germany has spent countless billions covering its countryside with invasive wind and solar farms and yet still gets most of its energy from coal, and has recently signed a major deal with Russia to secure more gas supplies. All this has come at a very high cost for energy users with some of the highest domestic energy bills in the EU. Irelands energy costs are now too rising significantly as we subsidise more and more of this so called "Green" energy. If we want to reduce our CO2 footprint it would be far cheaper and more effective to do things like restore our peatlands, retrofit buildings etc.

alps

They are probably the most unobtrusive item you could possibly have in the countryside. I doubt if some of the commentators above have ever stood next to or in a solar farm, definitely not one that has been in pace for a number of years.

All you hear from the area is birds and bees...no noise, no smell, no disturbance of any kind...doubt you could have anything better as a "neighbour" to be honest..

Twenty Grand

Birdnuts wrote: »

Germany has spent countless billions covering its countryside with invasive wind and solar farms and yet still gets most of its energy from coal, and has recently signed a major deal with Russia to secure more gas supplies.

As of this year renewables are the largest energy source in Germany at about 40%. Was under 20% nine years ago and they're aiming for 65% over the next decade. I doubt they'll get there, all the low hanging fruit are gone, but nonetheless it's a huge achievement for the Germans and one we should strive to emulate.

The increase in reliance on Russian gas is because most of Germany's is depleted, and production is slowing in the Nordics.

How are solar and wind farms "invasive"?
More invasive than a coal plant, or gas, or nuclear?

Personally I'd prefer a solar farm over any other farm. No noise from tractors or smell of sh*te from slurry.

Mooooo

The same with a lot of talk of enviromental sustainability, very few people link any of it with financial sustainability, be it in the cost of production or the cost to the consumer, however there always seems to be a pension fund or large company that can make a profit off it. Investment in infrastructure where small scale generation can feed back in would prob be more worth while, plenty of roofs up and down the country without taking up any ground space

Who2

I put in 16 panels last year onto what was deeemed as an extremely suitable roof. They arent worth a monkeys and definately arent going to have much of an impact on helping the climate unless they can sort out battery storage thats affordable and guaranteed to last longer than a couple of years. There can be a sharp sort of glare off them too if the light hits them the right way.

tabby aspreme

Twenty Grand wrote: »

Personally I'd prefer a solar farm over any other farm. No noise from tractors or smell of sh*te from slurry.

Would you be happy to have a lithium battery farm, co located with the solar farm, to maximize it's efficiency

Dakota Dan

Panch18 wrote: »

The thing about these “farms” is that the eco warriors in the cities can feel good about themselves because they are using solar energy which is “green”. Some joke

Renewable energy will never replace fossil fuel, those big wind turbines have to be heavily subsidised and there's lots of metal in them except for the blades, metal is made by using lots of coal some hypocrisy.

Dakota Dan

lalababa wrote: »

What arguments are against solar farms? 1. Unsightly 2. Not efficient.3. something about bio-diversity. 4?
What arguments hold a candle to the status quo alternative of burning coal and gas?

Wind turbines use lots of coal in their manufacturing for molten metal also for wind turbines to replace fossil fuel you'd need a turbine every 2.5 km's, so lets protect the environment and rape the landscape.

gctest50

Dakota Dan wrote: »

Renewable energy will never replace fossil fuel, those big wind turbines have to be heavily subsidised and there's lots of metal in them except for the blades, metal is made by using lots of coal some hypocrisy.

Those wind generators are kicking out a lot of Gigawatts in the UK :



https://gridwatch.templar.co.uk/

Twenty Grand

tabby aspreme wrote: »

Would you be happy to have a lithium battery farm, co located with the solar farm, to maximize it's efficiency

Sure!
Prefer it to the McMansions dotted around the countryside anyways.

Dakota Dan wrote: »

Renewable energy will never replace fossil fuel, those big wind turbines have to be heavily subsidised and there's lots of metal in them except for the blades, metal is made by using lots of coal some hypocrisy.

And what's a fossil fuel power plant made of? The furnace, the steam generator etc.Twigs and grass?

Dakota Dan

Twenty Grand wrote: »

As of this year renewables are the largest energy source in Germany at about 40%. Was under 20% nine years ago and they're aiming for 65% over the next decade. I doubt they'll get there, all the low hanging fruit are gone, but nonetheless it's a huge achievement for the Germans and one we should strive to emulate.

The increase in reliance on Russian gas is because most of Germany's is depleted, and production is slowing in the Nordics.

How are solar and wind farms "invasive"?
More invasive than a coal plant, or gas, or nuclear?

Personally I'd prefer a solar farm over any other farm. No noise from tractors or smell of sh*te from slurry.

4000 homes in Germany cant afford electricity and are in the dark because electricity is gone so expensive there because of heavily subsidised renewables.

Water John

Blaaz, 500 acres got planning, that's close on 100Mw, usual would be between 5 and 15Mw. Perhaps a link to the planning please.
The application the OP refers is typical in size, 10/13Mw.

Almost all solar farms in Ireland, have got planning if submitted correctly and at an appropriate location. As for glare, there on the roofs of airport terminal buildings.

Dakota Dan

Twenty Grand wrote: »

And what's a fossil fuel power plant made of? The furnace, the steam generator etc.Twigs and grass?

WTF has that got to do with it? they are harping on about renewable energy and using lots of coal in the process.

Twenty Grand

Dakota Dan wrote: »

4000 homes in Germany cant afford electricity and are in the dark because electricity is gone so expensive there because of heavily subsidised renewables.

And the doubling of the price of coal isn't a contributing factor?

Google "Fuel poverty {insert near any country}" and you'll get a headline like your comment.

Doesn't matter if it's Ireland, UK, France, US ect. There's 83 million in Germany. Those 4000 homes have bigger problems than the process of electricity.

_blaaz

Water John wrote: »

Blaaz, 500 acres got planning, that's close on 100Mw, usual would be between 5 and 15Mw. Perhaps a link to the planning please.
The application the OP refers is typical in size, 10/13Mw.

Almost all solar farms in Ireland, have got planning if submitted correctly and at an appropriate location. As for glare, there on the roofs of airport terminal buildings.

http://www.munster-express.ie/front-page-news/giant-solar-farm-on-copper-coast-tagged-%E2%80%98an-insult-to-the-community%E2%80%99/



Fwiw the main objections seem to be that windmills will piggy back onto the connection


Half folks down around there arent talking over the windfarms afaik....if 26ha cant get past bord planalta....what hope for this?

gctest50

Dakota Dan wrote: »

Wind turbines use lots of coal in their manufacturing for molten metal also for wind turbines to replace fossil fuel you'd need a turbine every 2.5 km's, so lets protect the environment and rape the landscape.

Right now:

Electricity generated
2770 MW

76% of the Island of Ireland's current electricity demand


http://live.windenergy.ie/


.

Dakota Dan

Twenty Grand wrote: »

And the doubling of the price of coal isn't a contributing factor?

Google "Fuel poverty {insert near any country}" and you'll get a headline like your comment.

Doesn't matter if it's Ireland, UK, France, US ect.

You mean carbon tax :rolleyes:

Dakota Dan

gctest50 wrote: »

Right now:

Electricity generated
2770 MW

76% of the Island of Ireland's current electricity demand


http://live.windenergy.ie/



.

Only when the wind blows, turbines near us spent one week without moving.

Twenty Grand

Dakota Dan wrote: »

You mean carbon tax :rolleyes:

Yep, it's the cost of carbon credits.

So you're paying tax for burning coal or paying subsidy for renewables.
But you'll always be paying the coal tax.