Standing in Work

scof22

Hi,
Does anyone know if employers have to provide seating in work? I work an 8 hour shift with a one hour break and have to stand. Myself and others have asked for seats but have been told no. The pain in everyone’s feet and back at the end of the day is horrendous!

scof22

scof22 wrote: »

Hi,
Does anyone know if employers have to provide seating in work? I work an 8 hour shift with a one hour break and have to stand. Myself and others have asked for seats but have been told no. The pain in everyone’s feet and back at the end of the day is horrendous!

What is your job?

scof22

Dav010 wrote: »

What is your job?

A receptionist

sbsquarepants

Is there some reason why you'd be required to stand?

sbsquarepants

sbsquarepants wrote: »

Is there some reason why you'd be required to stand?

Hotel reception op?

wally1990

Seems unusual to not have a chair to be honest even if a reception or production line (depending on the role I suppose)

I s it production line work?

There must be some reason?

Health and safety?

Or Standing is required to do job X because of ......

To be honest, I'd expect a valid reason otherwise it's seems unusual but we need to know the occupation to be able to provide better feedback and discuss

Surely some reason besides cost on behalf of the employer ?

SandyMac1234

I stand 8 - 12 hours, not in one spot though. Think employers are only be obligated to supply mats to stand on, which do work a little, if you don't trip over them!

oLoonatic

They can make changes to your work environment where reasonable (rubber mats etc). Is this a new rule enforced that you had to stand? Were there seats available before this.

fryup

i wouldn't stand for it

*is it hotel receptionist? can't see the problem of sitting down now again esp if using a PC

b318isp

While there is no absolute requirement to provide seating (but see law below), where there is a hazard, the employer has a duty to complete a suitable and sufficient risk assessment, and where reasonably practicable, provide a safe place and system of work.

The Safety, Health and Welfare at Work (General Application) Regulations 2007 states:

"(c) where any employees have in the course of their employment
reasonable opportunities for sitting without detriment to their work
or, where a substantial proportion of any work done by employees
can properly be done sitting,
(i) suitable facilities for sitting are provided and maintained for their use, or
(ii) if this is not practical, they are otherwise ergonomically supported,
Working in a standing position for a long period can cause sore feet, swelling of the legs, varicose
veins, muscular fatigue, lower back pain and stiffness in the neck and shoulders.

Seating is required where most of the job can be carried out while seated or where there may be
opportunities for workers for sitting down between tasks without detriment to their work. If seating is
not practical, some other form of support is required so that workers are protected from the health
effects of prolonged standing. Other means of ergonomic support include foot-rails/rests and elbow
supports for precision work. Examples of where this may be practical and should be given
consideration by employers are in retail outlets at sales points or cash registers, or where employees
are demonstrating products within a retail outlet. Other examples include service industries, such as
bar work, at periods when there are no customers awaiting service.
Any seating provided should be a suitable chair with a back and not a bench."

https://www.hsa.ie/eng/Publications_and_Forms/Publications/Retail/Gen_Apps_Workplace.pdf

OMM 0000

I hate these sorts of posts.

As reasonable people, we should be reasonable.

Is it better a hotel receptionist is standing as customers arrive?

For sure.

During quiet times, could there be a chair she can rest on?

I would think so.

So talk to your managers. Buying a tall chair is a cheap solution to a real problem.

Make your case. Less turnover, happier staff, if we have a chair.

AndrewJRenko

OMM 0000 wrote: »

I hate these sorts of posts.

As reasonable people, we should be reasonable.

Is it better a hotel receptionist is standing as customers arrive?

For sure.

Why would this be better?

OMM 0000

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Why would this be better?

Have you ever stayed in a hotel?

Ursus Horribilis

The people who man those Sky booths in shopping centres rarely have seats either.

AndrewJRenko

OMM 0000 wrote: »

Have you ever stayed in a hotel?

Once or twice, yes - but seeing as I'm not the President or Lord Mayor, I really don't care whether they are standing or sitting. I just care about getting checked in quickly.

uck51js9zml2yt

I definitely wouldn't take this sitting (lying) down.



I'm sorry, ive had a hard day in work and need some humour:D

OMM 0000

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Once or twice, yes - but seeing as I'm not the President or Lord Mayor, I really don't care whether they are standing or sitting. I just care about getting checked in quickly.

I know what you're saying.

And I'm not trying to be difficult.

Although I am wasted right now after a conference so please be patient.

But when you stay in hotels a lot (I do) you become sort of annoyed when they are disinterested. My company is paying 200 or whatever per night, so when I arrive, be attentive, say hello, say thanks.

I think when hotels have chairs it makes them more chilled.

I know this makes no sense and I'm ridiculous.

dragonfly!

I have worked as a hotel receptionist before and its Failte Ireland / 4 * standard that you dont sit down

We had sound managers though who let us have seats as long as we stood up when guests arrived / approached the desk
but when it was inspection day the seats were firmly put away and hiden:D

muckisluck

On operation transformation this year they actually recommended standing in the workplace rather than sitting. They were really in favour of standing desks.

El Tarangu

OMM 0000 wrote: »

Have you ever stayed in a hotel?

I've stayed in a fair few hotels, I don't think I have ever paid much heed as to whether anyone was standing or sitting, tbh.

scof22

wally1990 wrote: »

Seems unusual to not have a chair to be honest even if a reception or production line (depending on the role I suppose)

I s it production line work?

There must be some reason?

Health and safety?

Or Standing is required to do job X because of ......

To be honest, I'd expect a valid reason otherwise it's seems unusual but we need to know the occupation to be able to provide better feedback and discuss

Surely some reason besides cost on behalf of the employer ?

We used to have a chair but it was taken away as “it didn’t look polite” to be sitting when customers arrived.

It is a hotel reception.

We have asked the manager if we could have one just for the night shift but even that was turned down

It is a busy reception but there are certain times of the day that would be quiet and no customers would be arriving so I don’t see the problem with a chair during these times?

lcstress2012

I work in retail in the airport and stand on my feet for 9 hours a day. The only time I sit down is on my break and I don’t complain!

I’m sorry but I’ve no sympathy for you, either bring in a chair or get another job. Simple.

AndrewJRenko

OMM 0000 wrote: »

But when you stay in hotels a lot (I do) you become sort of annoyed when they are disinterested. My company is paying 200 or whatever per night, so when I arrive, be attentive, say hello, say thanks.

I think when hotels have chairs it makes them more chilled.

Yeah, attentive and pleasant is important. I can't say I've noticed a difference between standing or sitting staff, but maybe there could be an issue.

dragonfly! wrote: »

I have worked as a hotel receptionist before and its Failte Ireland / 4 * standard that you dont sit down

We had sound managers though who let us have seats as long as we stood up when guests arrived / approached the desk
but when it was inspection day the seats were firmly put away and hiden:D

You'd have to wonder where these things come from. Is there any actual evidence that 'standing' staff are better staff, or is it one of those traditions - "I had to stand when I was a trainee, so you have to stand now".


The big high desks aren't a great idea either - they don't work for wheelchair users or families with kids or little people.

scof22

lcstress2012 wrote: »

I work in retail in the airport and stand on my feet for 9 hours a day. The only time I sit down is on my break and I don’t complain!

I’m sorry but I’ve no sympathy for you, either bring in a chair or get another job. Simple.

I didn’t ask for sympathy.

Surely if your working in retail, you would have to be restocking shelves etc, not stood in the one spot?

scof22

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Yeah, attentive and pleasant is important. I can't say I've noticed a difference between standing or sitting staff, but maybe there could be an issue.



You'd have to wonder where these things come from. Is there any actual evidence that 'standing' staff are better staff, or is it one of those traditions - "I had to stand when I was a trainee, so you have to stand now".


The big high desks aren't a great idea either - they don't work for wheelchair users or families with kids or little people.

It’s crazy! Even customers do ask why we have no seats, one customer complained to management about this and still nothing has been done 😩

rock22

Are you a member of a union. If not, join one quickly

rock22

rock22 wrote: »

Are you a member of a union. If not, join one quickly

If standing is the industry norm, what will a union do, quickly?

I can’t think of a hotel I’ve visited where there wasn’t a check in counter that you stand at.

B0jangles

It's to create the perception that all the staff are ready and willing to leap into action at any moment to fulfill the wishes of the hotel's extremely wonderful customers.


aka letting arseholes play at being little kings/queens for the duration of their stay. Most people judge the quality of their experience on the facilities etc. but some also require that the staff bow down before them and grovel. Those people tend to complain when they don't get the servility them think they've paid for. Management tend to care more about keeping said arseholes happy than they do about their staff.


Of course there should be a chair, even if it can only be used when customers aren't in the lobby.

B0jangles

B0jangles wrote: »

It's to create the perception that all the staff are ready and willing to leap into action at any moment to fulfill the wishes of the hotel's extremely wonderful customers.


aka letting arseholes play at being little kings/queens for the duration of their stay. Most people judge the quality of their experience on the facilities etc. but some also require that the staff bow down before them and grovel. Those people tend to complain when they don't get the servility them think they've paid for. Management tend to care more about keeping said arseholes happy than they do about their staff.


Of course there should be a chair, even if it can only be used when customers aren't in the lobby.

Absolute rubbish. I travel a lot so I use tripadvisor a lot. The complaint most often made about Hotels is about customer service. If you are paying for a Hotel, you have a right to expect to be treated like a king/queen for the duration of your stay. No matter how nice the rooms are, poor customer service puts me off.

The industry norm is to have high counters so that the guest doesn’t have to stoop to sign, can que and it’s faster in busy hotels. Whether they have chairs for quiet times is up to the hotel, the debate about if they should or shouldn’t is secondary to the fact they don’t and that is the way the op and colleagues have worked and will continue to do so judging by what she posted.

B0jangles

Dav010 wrote: »

Absolute rubbish. I travel a lot so I use tripadvisor a lot. The complaint most often made about Hotels is about customer service. If you are paying for a Hotel, you have a right to expect to be treated like a king/queen for the duration of your stay. No matter how nice the rooms are, poor customer service puts me off.

The industry norm is to have high counters so that the guest doesn’t have to stoop to sign, can que and it’s faster in busy hotels. Whether they have chairs for quiet times is up to the hotel, the debate about if they should or shouldn’t is secondary to the fact they don’t and that is the way the op and colleagues have worked and will continue to do so judging by what she posted.

Would your enjoyment of your stay be lessened by the knowledge that reception staff can sit down when you aren't looking? If so, why?

B0jangles

B0jangles wrote: »

Would your enjoyment of your stay be lessened by the knowledge that reception staff can sit down when you aren't looking? If so, why?

That wasn’t what you implied in your post. You implied that customers are wrong to expect to be treated well and that the facilities are what matters.

Personally, I don’t care whether staff sit or stand as long as they don’t delay, Ive been checked in by both. But as I said, that is secondary to the fact that the ops workplace has a standing policy which is the industry norm.

theteal

Most people working in retail would be on their feet all day (did it myself for years) but on the one spot would only be confined to a few minutes at a time. Stood on the spot for a longer period can be very uncomfortable - I was at an even that ran to about 4 hours recently and I was not far off hopping from one leg to the other towards the end of it.

Wasn't there a big faff about checkout workers back in the day? Not sure if it was legally established or anything but something along the lines of if you can do your work without moving they had to provide a chair. . .????

B0jangles

Dav010 wrote: »

That wasn’t what you implied in your post. You implied that customers are wrong to expect to be treated well and that the facilities are what matters.

Personally, I don’t care whether staff sit or stand, Ive been checked in by both. But as I said, that is secondary to the fact that the ops workplace has a standing policy which is the industry norm.

Expecting staff to stand at the reception desk all the time without any opportunity to sit is just one part of the whole 'treat the customer as royalty' concept. It is quite possible to give customers excellent treatment AND let the staff sit down sometimes. But that's not enough for some people. Those people equate good customer service with staff being serfs who exist only to do their bidding.



Those people should not be indulged. If management want staff to stand all the time, then they should lead by example.



No chairs in the manager's office.

Wanderer78

Yea I'd start with a union, before everyone ends up with long term health issues, by then employers, past and present won't give a ****. Apparently sky kiosk workers aren't allowed seats either

FishOnABike

There are various styles of standing chairs available which are suitable for use when working at a standing desk if an employee is likely to have to stand in one place for an extended period.

If reception staff are on the constant move they may not need ergonomic support but if they a have to largely stand static at a counter for most of a shift it may result in occupational injury.

Standing in the one position for an extended period of time us the sort of stress position used in interrogation. I doubt any prolonged, unaided standing in one place for an extended period would pass a workplace ergonomic or health and safety inspection.

As a customer I'd much prefer to deal with a receptionist who is relaxed rather than someone who has to constantly shift from foot to foot to relieve a back or leg pain, and smile through it, towards the end of a long shift.

PhilOssophy

So, a problem with standing in work will be solved by joining a union.........be careful where you take your advice from OP.

AndrewJRenko

Dav010 wrote: »

The industry norm is to have high counters so that the guest doesn’t have to stoop to sign, can que and it’s faster in busy hotels.

Why would the industry norm be for a design that excludes a bunch of customers, particularly wheelchair users and little people?

And what do people need to be signing these days, when all payments are electronic or cash?

I can't see how high desks help queueing or make things faster?

rock22

Dav010 wrote: »

If standing is the industry norm, what will a union do, quickly?

Perhaps get some chairs


The OP has already indicated that the practice of standing all day in affecting their health. A union would pursue any conditions which could have a negative affect on their members health.
My experience is that many hotels supply seating for reception and check-in staff - perhaps we stay at different hotels!

Sajid Javid

If you sit on it you cant swing on it.

rock22

PhilOssophy wrote: »

So, a problem with standing in work will be solved by joining a union.........be careful where you take your advice from OP.

Trade unions were created to organise and support workers in achieving fair pay and condition of work. Why would you consider that they would not be appropriate in this case?

SusieBlue

lcstress2012 wrote: »

I work in retail in the airport and stand on my feet for 9 hours a day. The only time I sit down is on my break and I don’t complain!

I’m sorry but I’ve no sympathy for you, either bring in a chair or get another job. Simple.

There's a big difference between retail, where you are moving constantly therefore not stuck in the same position for long periods of time, and what OP has to do, which is basically stand stationary on the spot for 10 hours.

What OP has to do sounds very uncomfortable and unrelenting.
I used to work in hospitality for a number of years so would be used to being on my feet for long periods of time. I now work in a desk job, I had a task the other day that involved standing at the photocopier for just under 2 hours & my back was in bits after it!
So I can only imagine how painful a working day is for OP.

bobbyss

I couldn't stand an hour at a job. I often wonder how some women stand in high heels. Arthritis will follow.

OMM 0000

bobbyss wrote: »

I couldn't stand an hour at a job. I often wonder how some women stand in high heels. Arthritis will follow.

My wife has to stand in her job for long hours (manager in a hotel) and even though she's allowed wear black sports shoes, her legs are still dead all the time.

Blueshoe

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Why would the industry norm be for a design that excludes a bunch of customers, particularly wheelchair users and little people?

And what do people need to be signing these days, when all payments are electronic or cash?

I can't see how high desks help queueing or make things faster?

True. Everyone knows that 80-85% of hotel guests are in a wheelchair or are little people. 19% are actually both.

OMM 0000

Dav010 wrote: »

Absolute rubbish. I travel a lot so I use tripadvisor a lot. The complaint most often made about Hotels is about customer service. If you are paying for a Hotel, you have a right to expect to be treated like a king/queen for the duration of your stay. No matter how nice the rooms are, poor customer service puts me off.

The industry norm is to have high counters so that the guest doesn’t have to stoop to sign, can que and it’s faster in busy hotels. Whether they have chairs for quiet times is up to the hotel, the debate about if they should or shouldn’t is secondary to the fact they don’t and that is the way the op and colleagues have worked and will continue to do so judging by what she posted.

It doesn't even need to be king/queen.

I'll settle for someone standing there looking at me, smiling, saying hello, and saying thanks.

Unfortunately this is not common.

I just checked out of a hotel a few hours ago and I said thanks, bye and she said nothing.

Her job is front desk agent. If she doesn't like people or doesn't understand what politeness is, she should change job.

AndrewJRenko

Blueshoe wrote: »

True. Everyone knows that 80-85% of hotel guests are in a wheelchair or are little people. 19% are actually both.

About one in six people in Ireland have some form of disability, or about a billion people worldwide. How many businesses can afford to turn off one in six of their potential customers?


Here's what smart hotel groups are doing to attract and accommodate this important customer segment:

https://www.scandichotels.com/contentassets/2ce6650a89b24e6e8e54e6ec8c14da49/accesibility-at-scandic_eng.pdf

https://www.scandichotelsgroup.com/en/accessibility-contact/

Blueshoe

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

About one in six people in Ireland have some form of disability, or about a billion people worldwide. How many businesses can afford to turn off one in six of their potential customers?


Here's what smart hotel groups are doing to attract and accommodate this important customer segment:

https://www.scandichotels.com/contentassets/2ce6650a89b24e6e8e54e6ec8c14da49/accesibility-at-scandic_eng.pdf

https://www.scandichotelsgroup.com/en/accessibility-contact/

Wheelchairs we are talking about

AndrewJRenko

Blueshoe wrote: »

Wheelchairs we are talking about

No, we're not. We're talking about people who use wheelchairs, and people who use walking frames, and people who have broken a leg or twisted an ankle, and little people, and people with toddlers running around them.


Basically, we're talking about designing a facility that works for everybody, instead of designing to exclude some people. Why would you want to design to exclude customers?

Blueshoe

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

No, we're not. We're talking about people who use wheelchairs, and people who use walking frames, and people who have broken a leg or twisted an ankle, and little people, and people with toddlers running around them.


Basically, we're talking about designing a facility that works for everybody, instead of designing to exclude some people. Why would you want to design to exclude customers?

When you build your hotel you get to make the decisions.
A high reception desk looks better. More high end. The only people who would be affected by this would be wheelchair users and little people. But I'm sure its not a problem. Staff can just tip around the outside to check them in. It's grand

cournioni

Good lord some people are such whingers. Stand up, and do your job. You’re being paid for it.

If you don’t like standing then look for another job. Simples.

Blueshoe

cournioni wrote: »

Good lord some people are such whingers. Stand up, and do your job. You’re being paid for it.

If you don’t like standing then look for another job. Simples.

Just tip into the toilet every now and then and play with the phone in the cubicle. Solved