Poor but honest

lbc2019

Not surprised by these findings

https://www.thejournal.ie/readme/opinion-why-do-rich-people-lie-cheat-and-steal-more-than-those-on-low-incomes-4647197-May2019/

BlackandGreen

e: nevermind.

The Tetrarch

Psychopaths rise to the top

endacl

The Tetrarch wrote: »

Psychopaths rise to the top

Then they cream it.

Noveight

Poor people can’t afford to lie.

Timberrrrrrrr

lbc2019 wrote: »

Not surprised by these findings

https://www.thejournal.ie/readme/opinion-why-do-rich-people-lie-cheat-and-steal-more-than-those-on-low-incomes-4647197-May2019/

How about an auld synopsis instead of just dumping a link?

lbc2019

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

How about an auld synopsis instead of just dumping a link?

Rich people are less honest than poor people study finds

Poor Uncle Tom

Honesty is overrated, honestly,

If poor families rely on their own pocket and not charities, then their kids will receive useful worthwhile presents for Christmas. Books. Small Lego box. The kids will learn the value of preservation (see rich comparison next paragraph) and appreciate their parents effort to save.

On the other hand, rich people parents will give their four year old larvae things like expensive radio control cars and game consoles: Not being that educational the radio control toy has a good chance of being broken by the end of Christmas day. Easy come easy go. The little darlings will blame siblings for breaking their toys when it was their own fault.

Franz Von Peppercorn II

[Deleted User] wrote: »

If poor families rely on their own pocket and not charities, then their kids will receive useful worthwhile presents for Christmas. Books. Small Lego box.

On the other hand, rich people parents will give their four year old larvae things like expensive radio control cars and game consoles: Not being that educational the radio control toy has a good chance of being broken by the end of Christmas day.

:eyes:

Ok caller. But are they honest?

recedite

Interesting, not particularly surprising though.
I've noticed the zebra crossing thing quite a lot myself. I reckon this has always gone on.
In the olden days it was the rich guy galloping through the village on horseback, scattering chickens and barefoot peasant children.
Much too important to be slowed down.

Poor Uncle Tom

Deleted User wrote: »

If poor families rely on their own pocket and not charities, then their kids will receive useful worthwhile presents for Christmas. Books. Small Lego box.

On the other hand, rich people parents will give their four year old larvae things like expensive radio control cars and game consoles: Not being that educational the radio control toy has a good chance of being broken by the end of Christmas day.

Eat a Snickers, there there, feel better now?

Your Face

That article is all over the place.

steddyeddy

And posh people do think they're better than everyone else.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.independent.co.uk/news/science/posh-people-think-theyre-better-university-of-virginia-social-inequality-a8921876.html%3famp

More likely to go to the top universities

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/education-41664459

And less likely than poorer people to become the top students once they get there.

https://www.bmj.com/content/358/bmj.j4239

Money doesn't make you better, smarter or more honest.

recedite

recedite wrote: »

Interesting, not particularly surprising though.
I've noticed the zebra crossing thing quite a lot myself. I reckon this has always gone on.
In the olden days it was the rich guy galloping through the village on horseback, scattering chickens and barefoot peasant children.
Much too important to be slowed down.

So why isn't it called a horse crossing- when did the zebra come into play?

biko

Deleted User wrote: »

when did the zebra come into play?

When it started raining outside.

odyssey06

The 'experiments' are all rather dubious, cos they assume the people told the truth about their incomes in the first place...

biko

biko wrote: »

When it started raining outside.

Am-ind I great setting these up for you

Harry Palmr

recedite wrote: »

In the olden days it was the rich guy galloping through the village on horseback, scattering chickens and barefoot peasant children.
Much too important to be slowed down.

Now it's bloody joggers! :mad:

Blaizes

Or cyclists

Blaizes

Your Face wrote: »

That article is all over the place.

Agreed though I'd say there is a grain of truth in there. Doesn't mention any of the wealthy philanthropists who donate a lot of money to charity either so a bit one sided perhaps. Loads of points in there for discussion though.

mad muffin

‘ello gunva!

Blaizes

Alluding to what I said above about philanthropy was trying to link to a Guardian newspaper article which said that philanthropists should pay their fair share of tax instead but couldn't get link to work.

listermint

Blaizes wrote: »

Agreed though I'd say there is a grain of truth in there. Doesn't mention any of the wealthy philanthropists who donate a lot of money to charity either so a bit one sided perhaps. Loads of points in there for discussion though.

Philanthropy isn't all it's made out to be.i guess you know that though.

BattleCorp

The Tetrarch wrote: »

Psychopaths rise to the top

The average psychopath has above average intelligence and are very driven so that's why they rise to the top.

branie2

That's true

Sonny noggs

steddyeddy wrote: »

And posh people do think they're better than everyone else.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.independent.co.uk/news/science/posh-people-think-theyre-better-university-of-virginia-social-inequality-a8921876.html%3famp

More likely to go to the top universities

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/education-41664459

And less likely than poorer people to become the top students once they get there.

https://www.bmj.com/content/358/bmj.j4239

Money doesn't make you better, smarter or more honest.

Bmj link behind paywall?

recedite

Deleted User wrote: »

So why isn't it called a horse crossing- when did the zebra come into play?

I've never seen a horse crossing at one.

lbc2019

recedite wrote: »

I've never seen a horse crossing at one.

a zebra would be harder to spot, tbf

ILoveYourVibes

Its because when you are poor ...people matter more. You don't have much stuff so the stuff you do have matters more your family and friends matter more....your spouse matters more.

The goal is to take those values into prosperity.

Gimme A Pound

Reverse snobbery from a middle-class thejournal.ie writer - well I never.

kowloon

BattleCorp wrote: »

The average psychopath has above average intelligence and are very driven so that's why they rise to the top.

Is it not sociopaths? Do I have my terms mixed up?

Cookie_Monster

how many 100k earners do you see with a string of 200+ convictions.... sure rich people are less honest :rolleyes:

BattleCorp

kowloon wrote: »

Is it not sociopaths? Do I have my terms mixed up?

Sociopaths and psychopaths share many similar traits. The main difference is a conscience. Psychopaths don't have a conscience while a sociopath will usually have some sort of conscience, albeit a very weak conscience.

But when it comes to intelligence and drive, they are very very similar.

TuringBot47

lbc2019 wrote: »

Not surprised by these findings

https://www.thejournal.ie/readme/opinion-why-do-rich-people-lie-cheat-and-steal-more-than-those-on-low-incomes-4647197-May2019/

Not exactly a decent study.

There are plenty of feckers in BMW's and Audis who think they're more than entitled to drive in the bus lane in rush hour. But just as many 15 year old rustbucket cars and white van men doing the same.

Those simulator games in the study only presented a win, i.e. it was perceived that nobody loses anything, the others just don't gain money.
It tested their competitiveness, not their feelings to others.

So saying rich people "steal" is certainly just a click-bait headline.

Successful people will compete more, which drives them to work harder and improve themselves.

recedite

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

how many 100k earners do you see with a string of 200+ convictions.... sure rich people are less honest :rolleyes:

In those situations its the petty criminal who just doesn't care any more.
He knows its quite likely he will be caught, but also knows its a revolving door system, and he has nothing much to lose.


The examples in the studies are a bit more nuanced. Its more about making the dishonest choice when you think nobody will know about it. When you think you can escape any negative consequences, even reputational ones.
That's where the rich guys come to the fore.

SexBobomb

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

Its because when you are poor ...people matter more. You don't have much stuff so the stuff you do have matters more your family and friends matter more....your spouse matters more.

The goal is to take those values into prosperity.

When you have money you can pay for services and people to help you do things in your life and you have security so less incentive to be kind and create more relationships with other people and strangers.
When you are poorer, you need more support from your family and surrounding community more so better relationships and family bonds help you there. People to watch you kids when your at work, becoming friends with the electrician who lives next door because he might give you a hand from time to time with something. This is very simplistic example also poorer people live in more dense areas (in urban areas) and being "sound" makes life easier.

kowloon

TuringBot47 wrote: »

Successful people will compete more, which drives them to work harder and improve themselves.

You have to separate the wealthy by how they got to that wealth: Most wealthy people don't work their way into that wealth from a position of complete poverty. The people who do are the ones I'd class as financially successful, and the generally work harder to get there. But people born into wealth who manage to stay wealthy? They can tell themselves all they want that they got there by working harder and improving themselves, but that doesn't make it true. Most people are going to fall in between the extremes. I think there's a mixture of guilt and greed up where the money lives, some gravitate towards charity, others just try to justify why they deserve it more than the rest.

Bigbagofcans

Rich people can afford to cheat more (away on business, hotel rooms etc) and find more people to cheat with than your average poor person.

Look, if this makes the plebs of this world feel good about themselves well and good.

Oh, and can you imagine if this study was done and it was found there was no correlation between wealth and dishonesty. Well, that'd be a waste of time, wouldn't it. Can't have that. And 50% of expensive cars failed to stop at a zebra crossing. very much doubt that, unless maybe two cars considered expensive passed during the experiment.

Gimme A Pound

A relative of mine experienced the exact opposite to the "sound, salt of the earth" (so condescending) working class area versus the snobbish, stuck-up, standoffish affluent area. The snobs were in the former area he said - they wouldn't look at you. The folk in the latter area were lovely, friendly, helpful people from the moment he moved there.

And of course you'll get the very opposite too. It depends on the individual community.

Also what's this thing about only rich or poor and nothing in between?

Grayson

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

Its because when you are poor ...people matter more. You don't have much stuff so the stuff you do have matters more your family and friends matter more....your spouse matters more.

The goal is to take those values into prosperity.

It's not just that, it's the bias that's built into people. The study about people playing monopoly is a great example. Give one person double the starting money and starting property and when they win they don't think it's because they had an advantage.
Other studies have shown that in general as people get richer they lose empathy for those that aren't rich. Their charitable side generally goes too.

Gimme A Pound

Deleted User wrote: »

Oh, and can you imagine if this study was done and it was found there was no correlation between wealth and dishonesty. Well, that'd be a waste of time, wouldn't it. Can't have that.

What would the self loathing, guilt addled middle-class folk do then?!

(Because it's mostly only they who give a sh1t about such stuff).

sbsquarepants

I think you've got a chicken and egg scenario here.

Do richer people cheat and steal more than poorer people, or does cheating and stealing tend to make those people richer.

I'm going to go with option B. It's a big, bad and extremely unfair world out there. If you want to get on, then you've got to do what you've got to do.

steddyeddy

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

how many 100k earners do you see with a string of 200+ convictions.... sure rich people are less honest :rolleyes:

Below is the Telepgraph's summation of the Anglo-Irish bank debacle and the hidden loan controversy. Can you point me to low earners who have done equivalent or more damage to this country?

The bailout of Anglo-Irish Bank will cost Ireland's taxpayers EU34bn and leave the country with a record budget deficit. The background to the crisis stretches back over a number of years. Ireland enjoys a decade long property boom during which easy bank credit prompts new buildings to mushroom around the country.

TuringBot47

kowloon wrote: »

You have to separate the wealthy by how they got to that wealth:

What's your definition of wealthy?

SexBobomb wrote: »

When you are poorer, you need more support from your family and surrounding community more so better relationships and family bonds help you there.

To a certain degree.
But doesn't mean they're good citizens contributing to society outside of their immediate community. They could have a string of fake insurance claims, driving without tax and insurance, buying cheap stolen goods, no tv licence, no dog licence, don't clean up their dogs droppings, kids running amok, etc..

kowloon

TuringBot47 wrote: »

What's your definition of wealthy?

What's your definition of successful?

TuringBot47

steddyeddy wrote: »

Below is the Telepgraph's summation of the Anglo-Irish bank debacle and the hidden loan controversy. Can you point me to low earners who have done equivalent or more damage to this country?

People aren't afraid to walk the streets at night because of EU bond holders.
People aren't being killed, attacked, abused, robbed by banks.

Even with your example, only a few of the rich / powerful were at fault there.

Add up all the insurance claims for car theft, burglary, farm/commercial equipment theft, bicycle theft, phone theft, drugs, anti-social behavior etc. It's billions a year. There's a lot more of the poor causing issues which effects every part of Ireland.

TuringBot47

kowloon wrote: »

What's your definition of successful?

Self sufficient.
No need for state handouts, no need for black market cash-in-hand jobs or criminality.

Blaizes

recedite wrote: »

In those situations its the petty criminal who just doesn't care any more.
He knows its quite likely he will be caught, but also knows its a revolving door system, and he has nothing much to lose.


The examples in the studies are a bit more nuanced. Its more about making the dishonest choice when you think nobody will know about it. When you think you can escape any negative consequences, even reputational ones.
That's where the rich guys come to the fore.

Good summation there, kind of like a sneak thief, not obvious or violent but done all the same.