Dog with dodgy belly

Taiga

Sorry, this is a bit long-winded!

So a few months ago my 6 yr old dog had raw 'dog meat' from the butchers. My brother gave it to him when I wasn't around. He got what we assumed was food poisoning, the poor little fella, so we gave him chicken and rice after a day of no food and he seemed back on track.

Over the course of the next couple of weeks he was up and down, diarrhea and vomiting and we noticed his belly was getting swollen. I had to carry him back from a walk which I never had to do before so I took him to the vet that day. He gave him an injection and antibiotics and took bloods ( which turned out fine) saying it could be anything he ate but I reckon it was the meat.

He was fine for a few days and the diarrhea started again, the poor thing got so thin and miserable. Back to vet again, said his liver was swollen, another injection and pills.

Fine again for a couple of days, then same again. I was convinced he was dying so, of course, brought him back to vet. He kept him for a few hours and took poo sample. Said he seems good everywhere but his gut doesn't seem right. Results of poo test showed stress on pancreas and liver so he said it could be irritable bowel so he put him on Hills prescription i/d food and pills for a month, after which he had every hope that it would have righted itself.

At first he loved the food and has slowly put weight back on. We're two weeks in now and he is hating the food. He's supposed to be on a tin and a half a day and he's barely eating three quarters. So yesterday I added a small bit of chicken, which he deftly picked out (how do they do that?!) and left the rest. Same today. However today he did a runny poo on our walk and he wasn't himself at all. Kept stopping and I thought at one point I may need to carry him again. I've only been walking him half the distance since he got sick to give him a chance to regain his strength.

I really don't know what to do. Cost is a big factor, those tins are 3.30 each. He should be on 10 per week.

Do any of you have any experience with this sort of thing?

Thanks for reading my long-winded post!

NSAman

I know you have tried Chicken and rice and this should work with him.

I have tried the Hills and to be honest it doesnt suit my two.

Purina have a sensitive stomach version that I used once when one of my boys had a really bad case of Diarrhea he loved it, it settled his stomach and within a few days was back to "normal"..;)

Not an easy situation to be in, its a case of try it and see... cost for me means nothing they are family.

tk123

My dog has mild pancreatitis (he gets sick/has a gurgling tummy) and after a flare up the vet suggested putting him on digestive enzymes all the time even though it’s mild just to make it easier on him. I also keep him on a low fat diet - he’s raw fed so I cut the fat off everything where possible and I don’t feed minces - only lean chunks. When he’s sick I usually give Rocco Senstive from Zooplus and feed small and often so a couple of spoons say every 2 hours...otherwise he gets 3 meals a day and I bulk out with canned carrots. He can’t eat dry food because he wouldn’t be able to pick it up (he had a piece of his jaw removed) but dry food or biscuits would be the last thing I’d feed if he was sick - I’d just too much work for his tummy. The cans are expensive enough too - maybe compare prices on zooplus. I’ve also fed Nutriment low purine food to my other dog when her tummy was bad and it made a big difference and cheaper than your cans! She gets the same as her bro to make my life easier (he can’t really lift minces anymore) and I’ve started to add Luposan herbal powder from zooplus for her tummy the last couple of months to try it out (she’s had tummy issues after being quite sick after a vaccination ..and hasn’t had any since!)....although it seems to be lasting around the same time as the other fellas enzymes so I may put her on them too out of laziness lol!


These are the enzymes he gets :
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Dr-Mercola-Healthy-Digestive-Enzymes/dp/B005MFL4OE/ref=sr_1_3?crid=S7EAM5AWYKBE&keywords=mercola+digestive+enzymes&qid=1558898368&rnid=1642204031&s=pet-supplies&sprefix=Mercola+digest%2Caps%2C135&sr=1-3

Luposan powder :
https://www.zooplus.ie/shop/dogs/supplements_specialty_food/stomach_intestine/luposan/129146

Rocco:

https://www.zooplus.ie/shop/dogs/canned_dog_food/rocco#Sensitive

Outkast_IRE

Have had dogs my entire life and have a good interest in their health and diet.



I dont particularily reccomend any wet food, i avoid it completely to be honest. It doesnt do their teeth any favours either as it tends to lodge between them creating bad breath and dental issues long term.



I like to use a wheat free dry food, and will give some tuna or table scraps to make it interesting. I use the james wellbeloved dry food and find it works really well. I dont rate most of the foods provided by the vets they are only in the vets cause there is a good margin on the food, they are better than pedigree, bakers etc. but they are far from the best.



I feed only once a day, in the evening . They may get some scarps from me during the day , or the odd treat.

Taiga

Guys thanks so much for replying. I'll have a root on the net and check out those foods and Luposan sounds interesting.

Please don't get me wrong, cost is a factor because we don't have it but we don't hesitate if we have to pay it out.

Taiga

I'm worrying now because his poo had improved on this food, though there was a lot more poo if you know what I mean. My worry is that I only added chicken I had cooked in the oven and that seems to have set him off again.

aonb

None of my dogs like(d) Hills Prescription.
Its also a crazy price - totally taking advantage of people charging that price when their vet recommends it... (the manufacturers not the vets)

I feel for you OP - you obviously love your dog, and take good care of him, so dont beat yourself up about not being able to keep feeding €3.30/tin. What breed is your dog? It makes me laugh to read the amounts of food that the label on a tin recommends - I give my dogs tinned dog food when I dont have home cooked or for an emergency - I give about 1/3 of what the tin says - they'd be huge if they ate the amount the tin recommends!

There are some very knowlegable dog owners on here, someone will come and give some advice. Would it be worthwhile though to start off with a second opinion from a vet (ask here for recommendations for vets in your area and/or vets who have specialities in tummy/gut problems)

This problem has been going on for a few months ... if it was the original dogmeat from the butcher which started this problem with poisoning and his liver/pancreas has been compromised, its very worrying.

Have you tried him on scrambled eggs? You could buy some frozen white fish fillets (tesco do a bag of white fish fillets for less than €5) and boil a portion with a little rice, mash them together. Some plain probiotic yogurt might help his good gut bacteria?

muddypaws

Anecdotally, a lot of dogs are allergic, or have an intolerance to chicken so it could be that causing the issues. What is the protein source in the prescription food?

Personally I would discuss it with my vet, prescription food from them is different to them just selling normal food. However, I wouldn't want to keep a dog on it long term.

In my experience James Wellbeloved is a good food for dogs with intolerances, a single protein source and not chicken. Maybe try their duck or fish

Outkast_IRE

One last thing, when changing food make sure you change over the space of a week, gradually increasing the ratio of new / old . This helps avoid a tummy upset from a drastic change.

James Wellbeloved is used by a lot of the guide dog associations and helper dog associations as it tends to work well for the vast majority of their dogs. Also ensure the quantities are correct, the better quality the food the less you actually need to feed. Refer to the manufacturers guidance and weigh in monthly.

tk123

Outkast_IRE wrote: »

O
James Wellbeloved is used by a lot of the guide dog associations and helper dog associations as it tends to work well for the vast majority of their dogs.y.

Some actually feed whoever is sponsoring them rather than favour a certain brand - have been told that by somebody in guide dogs when they were asked how the choose a food or what happens if the food didn't suit a dog.

One of the groups uses Burns for example which I'd never feed again after Bailey's tummy was so bad on it.

I fed JWB cereal free for a while - I think the turkey one? But again - I'd feed something gentle like wet or home cooked rather than dry at least until the dog is consistently ok. It's ok to not have a top quality food for a while - the same as ourselves when we're a bit off colour.

Taiga

Guys thanks so much for all of your replies, it means a lot!

He hasn't touched his food today, which means he hasn't had his meds. I've tried to get him to eat it but he's holding out for something better or just doesn't feel up to eating. He had a little walk and was fine on it, though not his usual over-excited self.

The food the vet gave him is Hills Prescription, i/d, turkey. He's supposed to have a tin and a half a day.

My doggie is a terrier mix. A small cute little fella who thinks he's a rottweiler. I gave him a boiled egg a couple of weeks ago which never did any harm before but he had a runny poo (sorry) after it. I haven't tried him on fish though.

tk123

Is there a pet mania or pet stop near you - both would have Nature Diet and Forthglade wet foods which are good. Pet Mania also stock Nutriment and might have the low purine one - it has smelly tripe in it which most dogs find irresistible. I've also given my girl Liga when she didn't eat for days after being sick and was desperate to get something in her before the vets had to admit and put her on IVs and she ate them.

Taiga

Thanks Tk, yes there's a Petmania near me. I have a lot of researching to do by the looks of it!

Taiga

He's on Metrobactin 250mg for the month. It must have been the meat lads, he did say his poo had some bugs in it.

Springwell

You can get prescription gastro diets online from suppliers like Zooplus much cheaper than the vets, for example the i/d is €2.40 a can. You could also look at Royal Canin lowfat gastrointestinal or Purina vet diets. Rocco sensitive is also good.

I wouldn't chop and change his diet too much - especially if he's already sensitive.

As suggested above a probiotic might help - I like Canikur but there's lots of options out there

tk123

Oh I just remembered we actually got this stuff on zooplus that might be worth a try - I thought it was just a probiotic but it has physilium etc to bind them/form the poo so I’ve used it the odd time one of them has a dodgy tummy.. it’s like cement once you wet it and whatever’s in it the dogs go mad licking at the bowl until it’s all gone!

https://www.zooplus.ie/shop/dogs/supplements_specialty_food/stomach_intestine/more_for_stomach_and_digestion/635702

borderlinemeath

Outkast_IRE wrote: »

Have had dogs my entire life and have a good interest in their health and diet.



I dont particularily reccomend any wet food, i avoid it completely to be honest. It doesnt do their teeth any favours either as it tends to lodge between them creating bad breath and dental issues long term.



I like to use a wheat free dry food, and will give some tuna or table scraps to make it interesting. I use the james wellbeloved dry food and find it works really well. I dont rate most of the foods provided by the vets they are only in the vets cause there is a good margin on the food, they are better than pedigree, bakers etc. but they are far from the best.



I feed only once a day, in the evening . They may get some scarps from me during the day , or the odd treat.

Please don't take this post as "having a go" but I just want to point out of few things:


I wouldn't write off wet food. There's so many good wet foods on the market. There's tinned or freshly prepared that are really high in meat content and highly palatable for dogs with digestive issues. Particularly ones that have fish or tripe content. You may think that they are bad for teeth/breath, but that's the crappy supermarket brands that cause that - pedigree, cesar and own brand "meat" in jelly/gravy, which contains literally no meat. From my own experience, I think that a lot of dental issues are inherited. My eldest dog has never had a dental, my second eldest has far worse teeth and needs a scale every year at least. For most of their life they've been on the same diet. Smaller dogs will have more dental issues, if you think about it, they've the same amount of teeth in a tiny mouth. It's not uncommon for small dogs to go in for dental work and to lose 10 or so teeth.



Grain free dry food is good. But beware that it is quite high in fat content. So the older a dog gets and the less exercise it takes, then the less fat content you need. I have an almost 12yr old dog (with a fussy palate) and she is on mainly wet food, with a fish based senior kibble, which is only 7% fat as she's less mobile than the others.I give lots of human food too, chicken stew, or spaghetti bolognese without onions are my dogs favourites.



I'd never feed once a day. My dogs are a deep chested breed, that are susceptible to bloat, and feeding once a day is never recommended for dogs at risk. When you think about it logically, a 24 hr gap between a solitary meal is a huge ask. A dogs stomach empties out after 6-8hrs, imagine how hungry they would be for 2/3rds of the day? I know plenty of dogs that will throw up a yellow bile if their stomach acids start churning because their bellies are empty.



One thing I find hard to rationalise is that we're told to feed our dogs this dry processed food because it's the best thing for our dogs. Yet we ourselves are told to eat as much fresh food as possible and to avoid processed foods. And so many dogs have gastrointestinal and digestive issues and skin issues, lots of which can be attributed to dry foods. I'm not that much of a sceptic, I do use it, but I've also fed raw, and I feed homecooked too. It's the very easy option to just throw a cup of kibble into their bowl, and to believe all the spiel that the marketing companies tell you, or that the sales reps tell the vets.


OP, the hills prescription food is usually good for getting your dog back on track after a gastro bout, but not usually to stay on it long term. From what you've said, your dog might have anything from colitis, or pancreatitis, or even giardia (a really nasty parasitic gastro bug). If there's a chicken intolerance as Muddypaws suggested, you could try sardines as a mixer rather than chicken. Dogs are far less likely to be intolerant to fish, it's usually chicken or beef that causes issues.

MonkieSocks

Just seen this and as this thread is about Dog food



FDA Alerts Pet Owners and Veterinarians About Potentially Toxic Levels of Vitamin D in 33 Varieties of Hill's Canned Dog Food in Expanded Recall.



FDA. Mar 20, 2019


Linky

muddypaws

The difficulty with a dietary intolerance, if that is what this is, is finding the culprit and the only way of doing that is by a 6 week exclusion diet.

So you exclude a protein source completely for 6 weeks, I'd recommend starting with chicken and beef, as they tend to be the biggest culprits. You do need to stick with it for 6 weeks though. If nothing changes after that, then you exclude something else.

Taiga

Guys you're amazing with the info! Thanks again. What about tuna? He loves that. I've done nothing since yesterday, hubby said he gave him a little bit of beef on Sunday without telling me and he was fine. He now wants to get roundsteak in Aldi and give it to him. I assume I mix any new food/meat with the i/d for a few days as someone said earlier?

He hasn't eaten a thing yet today. He's breaking my heart as he's quiet in himself too. Gonna bring him round the green now as that's probably enough for the moment.

Varta

Sorry to hear about your little doggie. Like humans, some dogs are strong and can eat/endure just about anything, whilst others are weaker in some ways and need a little extra care and attention. It often surprises me that so many people think so carefully about what to feed their dog yet give little thought to the other things that they put into their dogs system. For example, pesticides. I'm aghast at people putting pesticide into their dog every month to kill fleas that aren't even there. So if you are doing that, I would suggest stopping that straightaway. With regard to the food, it is important not to hop about between potential solutions. Give things a chance to work before trying something else. I have had eight dogs in my lifetime, they have all lived to be a healthy old age and all were fed cheap cuts of meat mixed with rice/scraps/bread. When I was a youngster I knew of people who could only afford to feed their dog bread and tea and whatever scraps there were and those dogs did fine. They are scavengers after all. I have always fed my dogs once per day and they thrive on it, however, as I said, all dogs are different and you have to find what works best for yours. There is a massive spend on marketing dog foods, be wary of the claims and the push against preparing your own dog food. Best of luck with your doggie.

tk123

Taiga wrote: »

Guys you're amazing with the info! Thanks again. What about tuna? He loves that. I've done nothing since yesterday, hubby said he gave him a little bit of beef on Sunday without telling me and he was fine. He now wants to get roundsteak in Aldi and give it to him. I assume I mix any new food/meat with the i/d for a few days as someone said earlier?

He hasn't eaten a thing yet today. He's breaking my heart as he's quiet in himself too. Gonna bring him round the green now as that's probably enough for the moment.

No you can't just feed steak or he'll get the runs - you need some bone and offal too.

I think the one thing you really need to do is just be consistent - you seem to be chopping and changing a lot in desperation. So if you want to try raw start with a complete (ie balanced meat/bone/offal) mince - if there's any inkling of pancreatitis you need to stick to low fat mixes.

borderlinemeath

If he won't eat the ID food on it's own then add a tablespoon of tuna, the one in spring water is the best to get for dogs. To use it as a flavour is fine, but you couldn't feed tuna long term, it's one of those fish that is best in moderation. Tinned sardines or mackerel is better. Or you could try scrambled eggs.



Prior to this was his appetite finicky? Or is it since the first bout that he's got more cautious of eating if he's feeling off?

Taiga

When he was a pup he was a bit finicky up until maybe 8 months old and he was eating fine. He had a bout of gastroenteritis about two years ago which went away quickly with vets treatment. He's never been a horse of an eater, eats half his food in the morning and the other half in the evening. But he's anyone's for a pancake or a piece of toast or chicken!
I have tuna there so I'll mix a spoon in his bowl now.

The walk earlier wasn't great lads. He was happy enough for the first 10 minutes, then it was like I was walking an old dog. He stayed right beside me and just plodded along, stopping for the odd sniff. Not like him. He did a runny poo too.

Taiga

I've just mixed a tblsp of tuna with the i/d, at least I got the meds into him. He has eaten some to try to get the tuna but not all. He's begging like mad, feel awful with him looking up at us eating our dinners. Poor little mite.:(

cocker5

OP,

U mentioned blood tests carried out showed stress on pancreases and liver.. did ur vet do a treat for pancreatitis? It’s a separate test?

cocker5

OP,

U mentioned blood tests carried out showed stress on pancreases and liver.. did ur vet do a treat for pancreatitis? It’s a separate test?

Taiga

No Cocker, he gave me Metrobactin and the i/d for a month. He said hopefully he'll stay well after that. He said his bloods were clear and his poo, which took a long time to come back showed some bugs. He said something like his pancreas was stressing which in turn was stressing his liver. Does that make sense? I can't remember his exact words. He didn't mention Pancreatitis. What is the test for that?

He's going around hungry here but won't touch the food.

I'll get some sardines etc today and was thinking of maybe getting a tin of some other sensitive belly food but as Tk said, I don't want to be chopping and changing too much too quickly.

Captain Flaps

My fella has pancreatitis, had a flare up early last year which we assumed was food poisoning but after 2 more within 6 weeks of each other starting this march we got a diagnosis and a new diet. He's on the dry Royal Canin Low fat gastro prescription blah blah blah and he's been right as rain since, and he LOVES it. The only problem is the other dog has a hard time putting on weight so we're having to feed her fattier stuff between meals because she has a habit of not finishing her bowl and letting him have the last of it. Would recommend the RC food for any dog with similar problems.

cocker5

Taiga wrote: »

No Cocker, he gave me Metrobactin and the i/d for a month. He said hopefully he'll stay well after that. He said his bloods were clear and his poo, which took a long time to come back showed some bugs. He said something like his pancreas was stressing which in turn was stressing his liver. Does that make sense? I can't remember his exact words. He didn't mention Pancreatitis. What is the test for that?

He's going around hungry here but won't touch the food.

I'll get some sardines etc today and was thinking of maybe getting a tin of some other sensitive belly food but as Tk said, I don't want to be chopping and changing too much too quickly.

Personally id call him and ask what he meant by stressing?

if the pancreas was under stress he should have done a "snap test" with the blood sample and that will tell you if its pancreatitis.. id ask for a recheck plus snap test if it was my dog...

in the meant time don't feed him anything with high fat ... stick to one source of low fat food (tins for now) and let his digestive system settle

borderlinemeath

This one is handy if you he's gone off the ID food. It's only 2% fat so if it is pancreatitis it shouldn't lead to a flare up. It's expensive, but not as expensive as the prescription food.



https://www.pet-bliss.ie/product/arden-grange-partners-sensitive-tins-white-fish-and-potatoes-6pk/?gclid=CjwKCAjw27jnBRBuEiwAdjQXDMbhf4cywMo-n2grZ9tebRG06Sd32JEPtoV5okkjXmjFDIu40kHARxoCIzwQAvD_BwE