Catholic Ireland dead? **Mod Warning in Post #563**

applehunter

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121910479#Comment_121910479

It’s basically a film genre at this stage.

The people are the church. This should always be pointed out to people like you. You want to distance yourself and make it an us and them issue. Nice to take yourself out of any blame isn’t it?

Iscreamkone

If another organisation raped children in huge numbers and moved the rapists to another parish to repeat the crimes - we would close down that organisation.

Think if it was the gaa, and rapist coaches were moved to other teams?

But let’s continue to have them as patrons of our primary schools because we want our children to learn right and wrong from this organisation.

The end of the RCC in this country will be a very happy day in my opinion 🥳

billyhead

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121910663#Comment_121910663

So all priests are paedos? It's a minority just like it's a minority in all walks of live and professions i.e. teachers, judges etc. You can't tarnish them all under the one brush.

Shoog

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121910689#Comment_121910689

It was the behaviour of the RCC when confronted with pedo priests that is the unforgivable crime hear. They should have considered the children above the reputation of the church - they did the opposite. That makes the institution more criminal than the pedos they protected.

csirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121910689#Comment_121910689

You could and should look at it another way. The majority of organisations in this country dont harbour paedos or cover up.child abuse.

Hotblack Desiato

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121910520#Comment_121910520

What's the harm in irrational beliefs, which then implant themselves into politics... are you serious?

The 8th amendment was inserted into our constitution because of fanatical religious campaigners, it did immense damage and it took us 35 years to remove it.

There is an actual political movement in the US which, upon the re-election of Trump (who is no more a christian than I am, but he is a vile opportunist) wants to cancel the US constitution and insert conservative christians into all positions of power.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_2025

billyhead

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121910708#Comment_121910708

Some of those within the hierarchy were evil cnuts for covering up abuse but what I'm trying to say is there are good priests out there and you can't just generalise them all because of a minority of bad apples.

Hotblack Desiato

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121910572#Comment_121910572

wtf?

They told you that "the people are the church" when you were eight, and you still believe that? That's pretty special.

Iscreamkone

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121910689#Comment_121910689

Give me strength- they raped children in huge numbers. The hierarchy hid the rapists from the authorities in other parishes where they raped again. And you come out with “sure they’re not all bad” 🤦‍♂️

Then when they got caught they tried to weasel their way out of paying compensation to their victims. And still they haven’t coughed up all of what they owe. Copy and paste throughout the world. Disgusting organisation.

Hotblack Desiato

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121910689#Comment_121910689

No, only a fraction of priests are paedos.

But they all knew who the paedos were, and they kept silent. They all went to a small number of seminaries, and the "six degrees of separation" was more like three, or two. If someone was moved on more than once, as many paedos were, anyone who had studied with him or served alongside him knew he was a wrong 'un.

Yet not one priest spoke out.

Silence is complicity.

Shoog

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121910730#Comment_121910730

But that is not the issue, the institutions reaction is the issue. Irredeemably evil behaviour by an institution in the face of criminality by it's representatives.

Hotblack Desiato

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121910730#Comment_121910730

Why didn't these good priests speak out, Billy?

Vile cowards the lot of them.

applehunter

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121910737#Comment_121910737

I see it in my daily life.

Maybe nobody has pointed it out to you before.

billyhead

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121910754#Comment_121910754

I already said there was a minority within the organisation that tried to cover it up. How is it wrong then to say there not all bad? So everyone in a collar is automatically a paedo? No point in arguing here because you get nowhere.

Hotblack Desiato

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121910766#Comment_121910766

Some people are happy to be fooled.

Hotblack Desiato

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121910773#Comment_121910773

You are not reading for comprehension.

Everyone accepts that only a minority of priests were sexual abusers.

But a majority of bishops covered up for sexual abusers.

"Men of God".

Shoog

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121910773#Comment_121910773

There is ample evidence that various popes were made aware of the situation and rubber stamped the cover up.

Right to the very top.

billyhead

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121910786#Comment_121910786

If you weren't acutely aware I was responding to a poster saying "And you come out with “sure they’re not all bad” hence why I reiterated that the majority of priests aren't going around abusing kids.

Shoog

Good catholics are turning against the church because they cannot accept what the RCC did in their name. This is why the institution is dead in this country.

Hotblack Desiato

Good catholic? one who accepts the authority of the coverup which came from Rome? If that's "good".... ffs

Hotblack Desiato

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121910818#Comment_121910818

That doesn't answer the question Billy. Why did none of these "men of god", "men of integrity" speak out about the known abusers in their midst?

whisky_galore

The church was only ever about control, and extracting wealth from the people for their coffers to maintain that control.

Go up against Mother Church and they have the best legal representation money can buy. They ran rings around the government. They somehow never took heed of the big JC who preached to eschew all worldly wealth, to give it all away.

Iscreamkone

I don’t know anyone under 50 that goes to mass regularly. There must be some though.

I don’t agree with the church’s policies on abortion, divorce, contraception, discrimination of women and LGBTQ.

Throw in the little matter of the child rapes and this group are struggling big time with me.

Then there’s the woo…

Iscreamkone

It’s all bollox, Ted, isn’t it?

deirdremf

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121910572#Comment_121910572

The people are the church.

That's the theory, but the reality is that the church is an organisation run by a group of people (priests) who receive long training, and where career progression is defined by loyalty to the organisation.

The organisation provides services, many of which are not much desired in modern times. As it lives off donations from the populace, it is slowly dying in this country, but will doubtless continue to exist at a much lower level than before. With its huge land and property holdings though, it remains a major player in Ireland and worldwide in every country where it exists.

eagle eye

I think I started off this bible is made up and I truly believe that.

Anyway the church is far from dead in this country and many others as well.

Tbh I'd love to have faith at times. When you lose one of your best friends to cancer at 43 and you see scumbags who shoot up on heroin and the likes coming out of jail in great shape and doing exactly what they did to end up in prison it's hard to take that a good guy with a young family is taken from us at such an early stage in his life.

If you have faith it's all just part of god's plan, kinda helps with the grief if you have faith doesn't it?

I don't have any problem with anybody who believes in a god. Everybody is entitled to live their life as they see fit so long as they don't upset others

I remember during the last abortion referendum I went up to the pro-choice advocates and told them they should not be handing out pamphlet and talking to everybody at a fair where there were loads of young children.

A guy came over to me and said fair play to you for telling them to shut up. About an hour later I walked through a park where many of those at the fair were hanging out and there's the guy who thanked me roaring and shouting and handing out pro-life pamphlets. I gave him the same speech I gave the others and he told me to f off. My response was a couple of questions, does it say in your religion to abuse people? Are you not supposed to act like a Samaritan and treat friends and enemies well? He had no response.

Just to make things clear, I am and have always been pro-choice

Tldr? Live your life how you want, religion isn't dead, the bible is a work of fiction.

cj maxx

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121910663#Comment_121910663

The thing is , I believe it is . I drove by the local church on Sunday and while 20 years ago you couldn’t get a parking space , the car park was empty . Same with CoI . Religious power is finished in this country . Now to take back the buildings and schools and hospitals WE paid for

Strumms

Growing up, both sides of my family were very religious… parents plus ALL aunts, uncles, grandparents….

now out of my cousins of which there are around 15 across both families . Only 1 cousin along his wife and two kids go to mass…. Rest of us, wedding / funeral / baptism / communion / confirmation certainly, but otherwise not a sliver of interest…

speaking with my folks their church has increased in numbers but a lot of Eastern Europeans, African, Asian people are included in the populations going so the irish younger people, apparently ambivalent or zero interest..

Hotblack Desiato

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121910892#Comment_121910892

19th century post-Famine Ireland was a poor country by any standard, yet the RCC here embarked on a massive cathedral building programme. It was all about creating centres of power for them, dominating a defeated people. They did shag all to help during that famine also. Money flows into Rome but it doesn't flow out. The Vatican didn't gild itself.

eagle eye

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121911152#Comment_121911152

Whose the we? Those of us who aren't religious? All those who are paid for them as well.

You can dream that the church is finished all you like but that's what it is, a dream.

It isn't as big as it used to be but they still are a sizeable majority.

The great thing is that the power the church wielded no longer exists. A priest is now looked at like he's a normal human being. I haven't even heard a bishop's name in years. The pope isn't part of the news every day or even once a week.

It's just an entity now, a very large one but no more than that.

Times are good, forget looking back and being annoyed about things. I'm not talking about illegal acts such as sexual or any other type of abuse, I'm on about the power the church had and all that. We need to move on from the past.

I'm not a crusader, I just live my life happily and my family comes first. They teach religion to kids in the school my son goes to and I've no problem with that. The bible is a wonderful story book for kids. He's currently into religion and it's up to him if he wants to stay that way or not. It makes him happy right now but it's his choice to stick with it or walk away. I think when he gets older he'll realise it's a farce and walk away. I don't think he realises yet that his parents are not religious.

Anyway let people live their lives as they see fit and if you want to take things back how about we start with Croke Park which has cost the taxpayers an absolute fortune and the GAA have sole discretion as to what sports are allowed to be played there.