Does a company have to give an employee a work mobile ?

YourWann

Would there be any policy's where a company has to give you a work mobile if your job includes working on your mobile ?
In my job we have to reply to emails and I was told to have the emails on my phone in order to reply to emails if Im not at my laptop.
Im nearly sure I read somewhere a while ago that if you are using your personal phone for anything work related that the company has to get you a company phone ?
My battery is draining constantly due to emails and afraid that if my phone dies while in work I might miss an important phone call or an emergency at home.

Thanks in advance!

3DataModem

"Im nearly sure I read somewhere a while ago that if you are using your personal phone for anything work related that the company has to get you a company phone ?"
> there is no rule anywhere about this, but if you explain to them that you turn off your phone during working ours and early evening so not to be disturbed, they can't really argue? All they can do is give you a phone.

TuringBot47

I doubt there's a legal requirement.

But if a company has a requirement for you to provide a phone they should
pay something towards your monthly bill.

The company should be able to write it off as company expenses as long as you officially provide a bill and claim the expense/partial expense.

theteal

Interesting question. Not a chance I'd have my work email account on my personal phone - what if you didn't have one? what if it's a nokia 3310 or whatever?

Our place is the other end of the spectrum though in that we have an approved device list in the security policy so they have to supply the phone.

Allinall

A quick note to HR to say you are not being provided with the tools to adequately carry out your job should sort things out fairly quick.

m5ex9oqjawdg2i

There's no law about providing you with a phone, but I wouldn't agree to using my personal phone as a work phone. You will have no peace what so ever. There will be emails out of office hours and at the weekend.

Wheety

I would not agree to use my personal mobile for work. Ask them what is their policy for who owns the information on your phone and what right they have to look through your phone?

shesty

Seriously doubt there is anything in law about it.No way would I be using my personal phone for company use unless they were willing to pay the bill.Just an outright no, and they are absolutely chancing their arm demanding that.If they want you to have access to your emails when not on your laptop (and seriously, is anything THAT important?) Then they provide you with a suitable device or the pay the bill of your personal one.End of.You have to draw the line with them on this one, and it's not being in any way unreasonable.

Glass fused light

The company can do this only with your agreement.
If they are not willing to provide the tools to do the job and your job requires you to be out of the office/ away from your computer for a time it's up to the company to provide a solution.

The IT is poorly setup and trying to do it on the cheap is a bad idea eg
They have security and data protection issues as you control your phone and can download and retransmit data easier and it's not tracked on their platforms.

There are apps and software which can be used but as an employee these could allow your job to access your personal life via your phone. The IT usage policy may be far reaching enough to apply 24/7.

Porting a number into the company means that you loose your number, and without a contractual agreement, you are depending on the employer to port it out.

On the other hand the easy solution could be that the job pays for your new personal phone.

Lux23

I wouldn't agree to using my personal phone as my work, you can never switch off in that case.

C3PO

I'm very flexible about receiving work related calls/emails outside of work but there's no way I'd be doing it on my own personal phone! I'm surprised that any company would expect you to do this!

steinbock123

Change temporarily to an old Nokia,(5110 or similar) so it's calls & texts only.
They'll soon supply you with a phone when they realise you're not getting their Emails

Glass fused light

C3PO wrote: »

I'm very flexible about receiving work related calls/emails outside of work but there's no way I'd be doing it on my own personal phone! I'm surprised that any company would expect you to do this!

Some of this is US based companies trying to roll out what works in the US, not realising that employees here dont pay a flat fee for unlimited usage (but rather pay a package and thereafter per unit).

Plus you have the CEO ex-boss who started work 5:00am and expected replys ASAP, we were ok as he was US based, and Europe eventually trained him to not expect a afternoon reply.

Bigmac1euro

Work emails on a personal device is a massive security risk, an Audit and that company is in trouble.

Del2005

Bigmac1euro wrote: »

Work emails on a personal device is a massive security risk, an Audit and that company is in trouble.

My company used to allow people to use their own devices once they installed the company software on it. Now with GDPR and other security issues we can only use a company supplied device.

OP if they want you to answer emails on your phone they need to contribute to your bill, if they aren't willing then say that you ran out of data after disabling their software.

Bigmac1euro

Del2005 wrote: »

My company used to allow people to use their own devices once they installed the company software on it. Now with GDPR and other security issues we can only use a company supplied device.

I wouldn't install company software on your personal phone again if I were you.

killanena

My company doesn't give you a phone but will pay back expenses for the bills so I basically got a free phone anyways.

bucketybuck

Dear god. The chances of me allowing a company to put outlook/emails on my personal phone are effectively zero. Who does that?

Even if I owned the company I'd still want some separation between who has my work and personal numbers...

rivegauche

What sort of Security Officer would let a non corporate device hook up to their exchange server.
In my company relatively modern devices were retired because they couldn't communicate securely with the corporate infrastructure.
Here, it appears that the company doesn't care what type device connects.

boege

Aside from security GDPR compliance would be significant question here. What if you lost your phone and someone was able to access personal data that had been sent to your email account that is now accessible via your phone.

We are going through this in work currently and all work related mobile devices have to be encrypted. I have even had to replace my work laptop as it did not support the latest encryption.

rivegauche

In the event of a litigation case launched by a third party they'd have to seize your private phone rather than the company phone.

Bigmac1euro

As part of my job I look after the companies smart phones/tablets/laptops, you wouldn’t believe the stuff I’ve seen. Intrusive programs that give me god like access, can locate you with GPS, see what your battery on, what websites your browsing, what apps your using the most and how much data each app is using. I can take over the phone and stop the user from being able to do anything. I can disable apps, WhatsApp Facebook etc if I wanted. Besides this I had a number of times someone hand me a phone which had an issue and bang porn left open on the browser. I’m honestly not exaggerating here. People need to be on the ball. Keep your personal and work devices separate and the ridiculous thing is, 90% of the company have their work phone as their personal phone it’s nuts. Generally the company aren’t out to spy on people or make life hard, only if they are whacking the data out of it. The thing is though the functionality to invade your life is there. I’ve worked on phones that have been confiscated and sent to forensic companies to retrieve messages which had been sent and deleted, these messages where going to be used in court cases.

Del2005

Bigmac1euro wrote: »

I wouldn't install company software on your personal phone again if I were you.

I never installed their software on my personal device's. I don't use their equipment outside of work.

AulWan

I use my personal phone for work, but for calls only, its dual sim so I can go between my personal and work numbers, and can turn the office number off in the evening / at weekends.

I would find managing two phones at all times(one personal, one work, where are they, keeping them charged, etc) a pain in the arse.

I don't use my phone for work related emails though, they can wait until I'm in the office.

Snotty

rivegauche wrote: »

What sort of Security Officer would let a non corporate device hook up to their exchange server.

Mine, a fortune 500 fintech.
O365 and company portal, job done. MobileIron was around for years, it did do the job but the company had full access to everything on the phone, thankfully its gone a long time now.

Work do give us a phone, but I'm not carrying two, so I have a dual sim personal and notifications for my work outlook or Skype are definitely turned off, I'll only see something if I want to go in and open it. 3 years and have never received a call or text to that number

For the OP, it soumds like you need it while in work, if they give you a phone, do you want to carry 2? I wouldn't be bothered with that, I'd just put the email client on and turn notifications off.

gandalf

I've worked in Sales for all my career and my golden rule is to keep work and personal phones separate. I never use my personal phone for work purposes and I would expect any company I work for to supply me with a phone if they expect me to respond to mails whilst on the move.

The other issue is also GDPR and thats the route I would take to pitch for the work mobile.

Clareman

J@ysus the thought of having "personal data" on a personal phone would be a nightmare for any Security Officer, what happens when you get a new phone, is your old 1 brought in to be confirmed to have been wipes? What happens if you lose your phone on a night out, do you have to report it missing and a list of all the personal data that was on it? Who decides the level of security on the phone, PIN, biometrics, encryption? Is there a minimum level of patches to have on devices?

Snotty

Clareman wrote: »

J@ysus the thought of having "personal data" on a personal phone would be a nightmare for any Security Officer, what happens when you get a new phone, is your old 1 brought in to be confirmed to have been wipes? What happens if you lose your phone on a night out, do you have to report it missing and a list of all the personal data that was on it? Who decides the level of security on the phone, PIN, biometrics, encryption? Is there a minimum level of patches to have on devices?

Technology has solved the problem years ago, there is no data on the phone, its cloud based services accessed through a company installed browser, the browsers is the only thing related to the company and the browser can only be accessed with some company authentication, mulitfactor on use/weekly, you cant download from the browser, cant cut and paste, you could probably screen print but you can take a picture of your company laptop screen so nothing is 100%. My company is an absolute technological dinosaur but even they have this.

Bigmac1euro

Snotty wrote: »

Technology has solved the problem years ago, there is no data on the phone, its cloud based services accessed through a company installed browser, the browsers is the only thing related to the company and the browser can only be accessed with some company authentication, mulitfactor on use/weekly, you cant download from the browser, cant cut and paste, you could probably screen print but you can take a picture of your company laptop screen so nothing is 100%. My company is an absolute technological dinosaur but even they have this.

The problem is your then giving the company access to your device and information. So while it’s safe for the company your data and personal info is at risk.

Glass fused light

Clareman wrote: »

J@ysus the thought of having "personal data" on a personal phone would be a nightmare for any Security Officer, what happens when you get a new phone, is your old 1 brought in to be confirmed to have been wipes? What happens if you lose your phone on a night out, do you have to report it missing and a list of all the personal data that was on it? Who decides the level of security on the phone, PIN, biometrics, encryption? Is there a minimum level of patches to have on devices?

I would expect that companies which issue company phones the IT department can access it like any other computer. And the standards are set per company policy. See Bigmac1euros post for what to expect.
If they 'allow' you to supply the phone your effectively giving the company full access and control. So its as if it was a company phone. In a company I worked for policy clearly stated that IT would remote into your personal phone and on your leaving the company would wipe everything and in theory you also granted them access to the backup sites too.
The system was set up to notify IT if you did not connect with a password or install updates.

Snotty

Bigmac1euro wrote: »

The problem is your then giving the company access to your device and information. So while it’s safe for the company your data and personal info is at risk.

With mobileiron and older solutions, yes, with new technology no, not at all, they have no access to anything. It's one browser and it's a self contained connection to the company.

I'm not advocating people use their personal phones for work, many people can't switch off at all and would be getting alerts at all hours for work emails, that's crazy. But to save me carrying 2 phone, there is options that will allow me to cover the work requirements without jeopardizing mine or the company's data.

If people have some moral objection to personal/work phones being intertwined, that's fine, but dont assume you know what is possible when you clearly don't.

Snotty

Glass fused light wrote: »

I would expect that companies which issue company phones the IT department can access it like any other computer. And the standards are set per company policy. See Bigmac1euros post for what to expect.
If they 'allow' you to supply the phone your effectively giving the company full access and control. So its as if it was a company phone. In a company I worked for policy clearly stated that IT would remote into your personal phone and on your leaving the company would wipe everything and in theory you also granted them access to the backup sites too.
The system was set up to notify IT if you did not connect with a password or install updates.

This is called MobileIron, company has full control of the mobile, can see history, can restrict functionality and of course wipe the phone completely if needed.

Bigmac1euro

Snotty wrote: »

With mobileiron and older solutions, yes, with new technology no, not at all, they have no access to anything. It's one browser and it's a self contained connection to the company.

I'm not advocating people use their personal phones for work, many people can't switch off at all and would be getting alerts at all hours for work emails, that's crazy. But to save me carrying 2 phone, there is options that will allow me to cover the work requirements without jeopardizing mine or the company's data.

If people have some moral objection to personal/work phones being intertwined, that's fine, but dont assume you know what is possible when you clearly don't.

In order to have such a browser on your phone it would need to enforce policies for security reasons these policies would include having a pin because then anyone could pick up your phone and open this cloud browser. The cloud browser would also require a vpn profile giving you tunnelled access to the company network.

Does this cloud browser come down through the general App Store/playstore ?
Do you have an email client as well ? These apps can take permission of your phone and as you say you have a cloud browser, so your phones Imei would have to be registered on the companies Mobile device management software so the company knows who has their cloud browser, any MDM I’ve seen gives the company exclusive rights over your device and you may not even know it. I would be genuinely curious as to what this cloud browser is you speak of ? For your sake I hope it’s not Citrix secure hub because everything you just mentioned above is incorrect.

Stephen15

Where would it end though. Could you make a case for having a work phone for all contact between you and your employer such as ringing your boss to phone in sick or your boss ringing to notify you of any overtime going etc. even if your job itself requires no use of a mobile phone.

Glass fused light

Stephen15 wrote: »

Where would it end though. Could you make a case for having a work phone for all contact between you and your employer such as ringing your boss to phone in sick or your boss ringing to notify you of any overtime going etc. even if your job itself requires no use of a mobile phone.

If the job requires that an employee is contactable by mobile, or to access data while mobile, then it's up to the job to provide the phone/tablet/laptop.

The employee may agree to facilitate the company's business need by allowing the company to circulate the employees personal contact number or that they log on to the company using their personal IT. But the employer/manager needs to understand that if the business is not willing to provide the equipment that they can not force the employee to provide the equipment.

As for phoning in sick or overtime if the company is put on notice that the employee did not have access to any phone, it's up to them to resolve the issue, particularly if the company policy was to do a disiplinary action.

People need to remember that technology is great but most dont want or need their employers involvement in their non-work time. The use of a company linked phone involves 24/7 oversite by all the internal company policies and the legistation of their country of residence plus the company's country of residence.

C3PO

Glass fused light wrote:

As for phoning in sick or overtime if the company is put on notice that the employee did not have access to any phone, it's up to them to resolve the issue, particularly if the company policy was to do a disiplinary action.

Am I reading this correctly - you believe that it is a company's responsibility to provide an employee with a phone in order for that employee to be able to call in sick?

Glass fused light

C3PO wrote: »

Am I reading this correctly - you believe that it is a company's responsibility to provide an employee with a phone in order for that employee to be able to call in sick?

No not at all. But if the employee is going to face a disiplinary action for failing to comply with the policy of phoning in before x time, the company has a fundamental problem where the employee has given notice that they don't have access to a phone eg key holders, the only one who can turn on the machines etc.

Del2005

Glass fused light wrote: »

No not at all. But if the employee is going to face a disiplinary action for failing to comply with the policy of phoning in before x time, the company has a fundamental problem where the employee has given notice that they don't have access to a phone eg key holders, the only one who can turn on the machines etc.

Having to call in to report an absence has been company policy since people had phones in their homes.

Having to have company software on your personal phone is a completely different issue.

Rowley Birkin QC

Ì have a dual SIM phone. After 5, I switch off the work SIM and also my work profile. This disables the work phone number and work emails coming through. Simples.

Snotty

Bigmac1euro wrote: »

In order to have such a browser on your phone it would need to enforce policies for security reasons these policies would include having a pin because then anyone could pick up your phone and open this cloud browser. The cloud browser would also require a vpn profile giving you tunnelled access to the company network.

Does this cloud browser come down through the general App Store/playstore ?
Do you have an email client as well ? These apps can take permission of your phone and as you say you have a cloud browser, so your phones Imei would have to be registered on the companies Mobile device management software so the company knows who has their cloud browser, any MDM I’ve seen gives the company exclusive rights over your device and you may not even know it. I would be genuinely curious as to what this cloud browser is you speak of ? For your sake I hope it’s not Citrix secure hub because everything you just mentioned above is incorrect.

OK, so you've seen managed devices and yes they are still around, if it was a company supplied phone I wouldn't expect anything less, but technology does progress for both parties benifit, no one wanted intune so either the company comes up with something better or no one has email on their phone.
It's certainly not citrix and It's not a play store app, permissions wise, it's a short list, the Facebook app definitely has more access. It's got the name of my employer in the name so I'm assuming this is branded for each company that uses it, not sure.
There no IMEI sharing in advance to allow access, but does it send the IMEI when I login, sure maybe but who cares. If my phone breaks tomorrow, I can just go to the companies site and download it.
Yes of course there is a pin, and periodic mulitifactor, twilio sms or call style, this is the authorisation.

Bigmac1euro

Snotty wrote: »

OK, so you've seen managed devices and yes they are still around, if it was a company supplied phone I wouldn't expect anything less, but technology does progress for both parties benifit, no one wanted intune so either the company comes up with something better or no one has email on their phone.
It's certainly not citrix and It's not a play store app, permissions wise, it's a short list, the Facebook app definitely has more access. It's got the name of my employer in the name so I'm assuming this is branded for each company that uses it, not sure.
There no IMEI sharing in advance to allow access, but does it send the IMEI when I login, sure maybe but who cares. If my phone breaks tomorrow, I can just go to the companies site and download it.
Yes of course there is a pin, and periodic mulitifactor, twilio sms or call style, this is the authorisation.

Lol it’s my job to manage devices.

Skatedude

Lux23 wrote: »

I wouldn't agree to using my personal phone as my work, you can never switch off in that case.

Schedule do not disturb for your work group contacts and work email, but they should subsidize something towards bill costs.

Ursus Horribilis

Do you also have to use your personal phone number for business related calls?

Seeing as you can pick up OK budget smartphones for under €100 now (3 have the Xiaomi Redmi 6 for €89 PAYG), it makes even less sense for you to bring your personal phone into the equation. I'd be "losing" or "breaking" my smartphone for a while and replacing it with a cheap phone that doesn't have internet connectivity. Feck them.

OldMrBrennan83

Rowley Birkin QC wrote: »

Ì have a dual SIM phone. After 5, I switch off the work SIM and also my work profile. This disables the work phone number and work emails coming through. Simples.

You don't even need two sims. Just don't answer anything after 5.

Bigmac1euro

OldMrBrennan83 wrote: »

You don't even need two sims. Just don't answer anything after 5.

You see this is were it gets messy for me, you might not know if its work related calling. So happy to keep work device separate.
Some people are ruthless my work phone which i usually switch off on a friday evening sometimes does be binging on a sunday night at 9pm. That's head wrecking stuff.