Posts of Irresponsibility

Bobtheman

I have applied twice and not got one. I made a few missteps last few years. Though Im now at the stage of thinking I wont bother again for various reasons. That its not worth going the recovery process.
Firstly-the arse licking and pointless work I would have to do is incredible.
Secondly Im not sure the money really is worth it. My family is small enough and Im financially secure. I make money elsewhere.

Has anybody else decided not to apply or not apply again.

evolving_doors

I'm hearing a lot about 'reviews of posts' going on and the way roles are changing after you get the job... I.e. more work that someone else doesnt want to do.

Icsics

Great title! Another 'non postholder' here & also am an 'opt out'. Assigning of duties an issue for us, in that the P is reluctant to display duties & a lot of 'volunteers' doing things that were id as 'school needs'. We also have a situation where senior teachers didn't apply for posts, strange times

amacca

Unless you want to pad a cv for a path to management or you are on the home stretch there isn't much incentive imo.

AP2 = pitiful remuneration after tax and doing a good job not good enough...you will be caught with extra useless box ticking paperwork/admin/ass covering record keeping and time suck meetings with colleagues + reviews etc on top of your day of taking **** and + all the above on top of your more than fair share you got during the normal course of job..... it's not all sunshine and lollipops though you can perhaps look forward to actually sitting down for a half hour for lunch if you are lucky maybe every second day all while certain cohorts of students do literally whatever they please in some places and it's your fault because they weren't doing enough group work or something.

AP1 = see above + more hassle and additional backbiting from some your own colleagues if you are not seen to be bending over backwards+ being effective as they arbitrarily define it.

And then being a principal etc is not what it used to be either....1000 % more paper pushing and hassle/stress/responsibility and that's before you have to deal with students/staff never mind parents, the latter group which seems to contain a small percentage of some of the biggest prize idiots ever to grace the face of the earth.

It's just not worth it in it's current format imo, being in charge in name only with all the responsibility and very little authority or influence to command respect isn't worth it.....there are easier ways of making money and if there aren't it still isn't worth it.

ethical

Posts are a joke!
Getting one is an even bigger joke......unless you are a member of a golden circle!
I know a school that had a Posts Review and staff fought hard to have a certain job included in the job description.The person that was supposed to get the Post didnt get it (as she was not a member of Golden Circle) but the person that got it had most of it delegated (without delegating the money for it!!!) to others as soon as the ink was dry on the paper.
Now ,after another review the same post is not even considered important enough to be an A Post and lo and behold another teacher has to do it with much more degraded conditions than it was initially heralded as.........yet the salary has not transferred or the lovely timetable ,for that matter.

There is so much more box ticking now its not worth it.....unless you delegate the bulk of it...........and make a lot of your colleagues angry in the process! There is so much money wasted,great pity M.O'LEARY wouldnt take over for a few weeks! Would you believe there is more money spent on "so called retired full pensioned" hangers on (this,on top of their pensions!0 than there is on young teachers on piddly hours......the race to the bottom is well and truly on.......................

Bobtheman

Monetary wise a AP 2 is a joke. But the Ap1 ? Not so sure

Anyway the principal and a team of psychologists have decided I'm nuts so I can safely avoid applying for a few years.
There are not many real jobs left. Year head is about the only real job I'm aware of. As many have noted
Anyway I did point out my principal that all the A post holders are out of the place by 4pm.. Amazing. They must do it all in class time because actually teaching does not matter anymore!

Icsics

So true Bobtheman, teaching & learning is the last thing on the list. Posts are in the gift of the Principal & the charade we went through for the best part of a year coming up with school needs was just that. Added to that the new JC, it is indeed a race to the bottom.

Mardy Bum

Just to bring some balance to this thread, this is not the case country wide. Poor senior management will inevitably lead to poor middle management. There are some brilliant principals around the country who have created strong school structures.

evolving_doors

Mardy Bum wrote: »

Just to bring some balance to this thread, this is not the case country wide. Poor senior management will inevitably lead to poor middle management. There are some brilliant principals around the country who have created strong school structures.

Totally agree, however when the system changes from defined roles to a nebulous 'whim' the chances of it creating an equitable atmosphere become less. Camels Nose and all that.
For example: Before when you had Year Heads (AP1) and their roles were clearly defined. Now all their roles are probably being restructured (possibly without much staff/post-holders consultation) to include the latest department acronym for fear of a WSE. Previous duties will pushed on to AP2 without time off in lieu. Plus other duties on to focus groups consisting of non-postholders or form-tutors (typically more junior teachers on part-time contracts).

Has anyone seen this happen in their school?

People are slowly realising that it's moving further away from the classroom. Teaching is getting in the way of paperwork, monitoring and measuring.

I understand now why so many Irish teachers head over to the UK and are immediately bestowed the noble title of Department Head.

It wont be long before our former colleagues - soon to be line managers - are deciding if we are getting our full increment or not once our students have reached their monthly targets.

Bobtheman

In my school all these post holders gone by 4pm. I know some of them work at home but not all.
I really haven't felt much improvement in the classroom. What I mean is that it has not really improved what goes on there. All these new posts. I'm not sure the kids would say teaching and learning has improved. Isn't that what schools are for??
We have Booker prize worthy plans though.

am_zarathustra

Do your post holders do meetings? The lack of clear, defined rolls is very evident in most schools, some jobs are simply more time consuming than others but if one person has three things the other does regardless of the nature of the three. I think the fact you ability in a classroom doesn't have any bearing on the post is the death knell really, the less time you spend focused on your classroom the better now really for progression. That's a very dangerous precedent to set and causes real division in staffrooms.

Icsics

Completely AM, the more ‘events’ you organise the better! Vagueness in post duties is the norm, but they all seem to be well able to delegate!

pandoraj09

Icsics wrote: »

Completely AM, the more ‘events’ you organise the better! Vagueness in post duties is the norm, but they all seem to be well able to delegate!

I don't agree. Vagueness used to be the norm but not any more. I've had an A post for 28 years. I've always been a year head until now. When I got the post there was no job description and each year head put their own spin on the job. I remember older teachers had posts such as "chess master" and "quiz master". Posts used to be a kind of reward for long term service in a school and some of the duties, like the two I listed above, were a joke really. I got my post when my turn came up as it went just on seniority.
Things are very different now. As I'm job sharing next year my year head role was taken away from me. I'm thrilled with that. In a school where you get no time off to do your post, being an effective, dynamic year head is next to impossible in my opinion. Most of the work of the year head happens during the day. There was a long running joke that just outside my classroom door was like a railway station with kids constantly knocking looking for me. On 3 days of the week I had 8 40 minute classes. It was literally impossible to chase after the late comers or those that didn't turn up for detention etc as I was in class all day. I can't do these jobs after 4pm as the kids have gone home!
So I've been reassigned duties that I actually can do outside of school time but I've 3 new roles. As I'm taking early retirement once I hit the 33 years, I'll cope. I had to sign 3 contracts for these duties. Each one a double sided A4 page. Nothing vague at all.

am_zarathustra

That's definitely the exception and not the norm from my experience. People have serveral vague titles now and a page of scoping is unheard of amount those I know. I'd love a more defined role, given it should only take 8-10 hours a week and there are 3 hours of meetings in that. At my pro-rata rate it's 128 hours a year of work. I can tell you in actual terms that's very far from the truth. Do you have to do weekly meetings?

pandoraj09

am_zarathustra wrote: »

That's definitely the exception and not the norm from my experience. People have serveral vague titles now and a page of scoping is unheard of amount those I know. I'd love a more defined role, given it should only take 8-10 hours a week and there are 3 hours of meetings in that. At my pro-rata rate it's 128 hours a year of work. I can tell you in actual terms that's very far from the truth. Do you have to do weekly meetings?

Not sure if you're asking me that question?? We have AP1 meetings once a month. We used to have year head meetings every week, written into our timetable, but not any more. We've had 6 principals in the last 12 years and each one does things differently. I hated the YH meetings. I'd rather have had the period to chase up on kids, phone parents etc. There has been a big push towards defining the role for all the PORs in our school and now every role is very well defined. We have an ex principal on our staff. He went back to the classroom as being a Principal was leaving him with no life outside school. He told me he wouldn't ever apply for an AP1, that it wasn't worth it. I've got used to the extra money in my paycheck now but each time we have a review I had more and more duties. Last year I was Year head to the whole senior school with 32 class periods a week. It was exhausting. Having said that I'm in my 50s so haven't got the energy I used to have.

am_zarathustra

pandoraj09 wrote: »

Not sure if you're asking me that question?? We have AP1 meetings once a month. We used to have year head meetings every week, written into our timetable, but not any more. We've had 6 principals in the last 12 years and each one does things differently. I hated the YH meetings. I'd rather have had the period to chase up on kids, phone parents etc. There has been a big push towards defining the role for all the PORs in our school and now every role is very well defined. We have an ex principal on our staff. He went back to the classroom as being a Principal was leaving him with no life outside school. He told me he wouldn't ever apply for an AP1, that it wasn't worth it. I've got used to the extra money in my paycheck now but each time we have a review I had more and more duties. Last year I was Year head to the whole senior school with 32 class periods a week. It was exhausting. Having said that I'm in my 50s so haven't got the energy I used to have.

Sorry yes I was, thanks for the response. Same here, multiple changes in management, all with a different was of working. I find 2/3 hours out of my time every week for meetings is really impacting my ability to actually do the job, it's seems overkill given it's an add on to my normal teaching.

Smart ex principal going back, I was looking for a mortgage and the extra money has certainly helped but I'm definitely considering if it's actually worth it now I'm drawing down. If I was left talone to do the job that would be grand, I was doing a lot extra anyway, but the constant meetings are just mind numbing and generally ineffective. If the AP1 was my normal job it would be like having a one hour meeting every day to assess your progress. I doubt any company would deem that an effective use of time.

Did the post holders in your school ask for better scoping, I've two clear roles and two very unclear so clearly defined tasks would be great

pandoraj09

am_zarathustra wrote: »

Sorry yes I was, thanks for the response. Same here, multiple changes in management, all with a different was of working. I find 2/3 hours out of my time every week for meetings is really impacting my ability to actually do the job, it's seems overkill given it's an add on to my normal teaching.

Smart ex principal going back, I was looking for a mortgage and the extra money has certainly helped but I'm definitely considering if it's actually worth it now I'm drawing down. If I was left talone to do the job that would be grand, I was doing a lot extra anyway, but the constant meetings are just mind numbing and generally ineffective. If the AP1 was my normal job it would be like having a one hour meeting every day to assess your progress. I doubt any company would deem that an effective use of time.

Did the post holders in your school ask for better scoping, I've two clear roles and two very unclear so clearly defined tasks would be great

No, the issue about the job descriptions for the PORs arose from a WSE. The then Principal started the process and now we have job descriptions for each post. However, looking at the 3 contracts I've signed, the new Principal could have amended them. I'm happy to have been able to hold onto my post though. I was preparing for a battle I didn't have to fight! The Principal was surprised when I told him I wanted to take the contracts away to read them first before signing them. I'll manage the jobs but only because I'm relieved to still have the AP1. If I was younger I'd just opt to go in and teach.

ethical

....and remember at the end of the year you will have to fill in a form for the good old etb telling them what you did,what you could have done better and what you will do for the coming year.Another good old box ticking exercise that will keep someone "busy" in admin! And then you might find that there is a Post Review that scrambles the situation even further.
To be honest the lenghts some people go to in their job description with pages and pages of waffle is cringeworthy.....yet the actual job done on the ground is damn all with these paper fillers colleagues.
Some education providers have neglected their main job description of being "education provider",more interest now in doing sweet fa but covering their butts with endless selfish box ticking exercises.Expect this to continue for the forseeable.Buzzwords and Post It Notes all that crap ............and the students forgotten about!

byhookorbycrook

In our primary, on top of all the extra Covid work, the post holders also had to do “ coaching.” Croke Park hours were exhausted by Christmas for all of the staff, “ management meetings were far more frequent than any other year and then there was coaching on top of it ! If the various sessions were actually helpful, it wouldn’t have been so bad !

kala85

byhookorbycrook wrote: »

In our primary, on top of all the extra Covid work, the post holders also had to do “ coaching.” Croke Park hours were exhausted by Christmas for all of the staff, “ management meetings were far more frequent than any other year and then there was coaching on top of it ! If the various sessions were actually helpful, it wouldn’t have been so bad !

What do you mean by coaching.

Newbie20

I haven’t had a post yet and I really don’t know if I ever want to have one. Our principal is a pain and it’s not worth having to constantly be dealing with him. I always think that it’s a hell of a lot easier to do a grind a week for the extra money (based on what I see other teachers having to do for their posts and the hassle that goes with them)

solerina

Newbie20 wrote: »

I haven’t had a post yet and I really don’t know if I ever want to have one. Our principal is a pain and it’s not worth having to constantly be dealing with him. I always think that it’s a hell of a lot easier to do a grind a week for the extra money (based on what I see other teachers having to do for their posts and the hassle that goes with them)

You are so right.
I have an AP 1 and if I had my time back I wouldn’t apply for a post, you are right, the money is not worth it for the amount you get to do. When I started teaching most posts were very handy...that has completely changed in the last 5 years.

RealJohn

To be fair, for an extra nearly ten grand a year (pensionable) and teaching time reduced by what, four hours, in order to do it, I’m not sure an AP1 should be “handy”. I wouldn’t apply for an AP2 (again ) for the extra hassle, fairly small pay-rise, and no reduction in hours, but for the benefits of an AP1, I’d apply alright.

am_zarathustra

Only a reduction in ETB schools so for the majority there is nothing. There are easier ways to make money, that's for sure. I'd nearly make the same amount correcting without the extra hassle. I like the work so it's ok but I could make the money giving grinds or working in other areas much easier. I'd only recommend going for one if you care about the direction of the school or there are particular areas you feel passionately about! Depends massively on the school, for a state job its very ill-defined in scope

derb12

RealJohn wrote: »

To be fair, for an extra nearly ten grand a year (pensionable) and teaching time reduced by what, four hours, in order to do it, I’m not sure an AP1 should be “handy”. I wouldn’t apply for an AP2 (again ) for the extra hassle, fairly small pay-rise, and no reduction in hours, but for the benefits of an AP1, I’d apply alright.

Yes but there is no reduction in teaching hours for many. I can’t remember the exact definition but I think that only schools covered by TUI give any hours reduction to AP1s.

RealJohn

derb12 wrote: »

Yes but there is no reduction in teaching hours for many. I can’t remember the exact definition but I think that only schools covered by TUI give any hours reduction to AP1s.

Didn’t realise that. Surely that can’t be right as it’s stated though, right? Sure that would relate to an agreement arranged by the TUI so surely, any TUI member ought to be entitled to it, regardless of what union represents the majority of the teachers in the school?
Obviously, that could potentially disadvantage people if schools decided they didn’t want to give the job to someone who’d be entitled to reduced hours, and open to abuse, if people tried switching unions when the posts came up. It doesn’t seem fair or right that ASTI people don’t get the reduction but TUI do (and I’m TUI, but that’s not on).

Treppen

RealJohn wrote: »

Didn’t realise that. Surely that can’t be right as it’s stated though, right? Sure that would relate to an agreement arranged by the TUI so surely, any TUI member ought to be entitled to it, regardless of what union represents the majority of the teachers in the school?
Obviously, that could potentially disadvantage people if schools decided they didn’t want to give the job to someone who’d be entitled to reduced hours, and open to abuse, if people tried switching unions when the posts came up. It doesn’t seem fair or right that ASTI people don’t get the reduction but TUI do (and I’m TUI, but that’s not on).

I thought it was an ETB Vs Voluntary thing, rather than TUI Vs ASTI

am_zarathustra

RealJohn wrote: »

Didn’t realise that. Surely that can’t be right as it’s stated though, right? Sure that would relate to an agreement arranged by the TUI so surely, any TUI member ought to be entitled to it, regardless of what union represents the majority of the teachers in the school?
Obviously, that could potentially disadvantage people if schools decided they didn’t want to give the job to someone who’d be entitled to reduced hours, and open to abuse, if people tried switching unions when the posts came up. It doesn’t seem fair or right that ASTI people don’t get the reduction but TUI do (and I’m TUI, but that’s not on).

Fair point. It's as a result of a TUI directive so you'd be within your rights to query it anyway.

I've always thought if was mad there was such a a difference, nearly an hour a day. I'm not even sure how the difference arose, I assume it's to do with the ETBs convuluted systems of governence but it's certainly unfair. I wonder are there many TUI majority schools in the new C and C's or the ETSSs.

Exiled1

Undoubtedly PoRs are the most divisive elements of school organisation. Over the years they have caused more trouble than any other in-school issue.
I worked as a Principal in both voluntary and ETB sectors.
The variations in how management approaches posts is quite bewildering.
There was a tradition and practice of posts being rewards for seniority / adhering to the 'ethos' in the voluntary sector that continues to this day, though mercifully it is dying. Many teachers expect this culture to continue despite a host of circulars that have tried to change the modes of appointment/roles/evaluations and create a genuine middle management structure.
In the Voluntary sector posts are all too often part of the wild west management style that seems to dominate many schools.
The posts in the Voluntary sector are in the gift of the Principal and no amount of paperwork/interview formats/structures etc. can mask that.
The VEC/ETB sector tends to be rather different. First is the 4 hour allowance for AP1. I would argue strongly that post-holders have been / are held to some account and work has always been expected. There has been a centralised approach by ETBs for better or worse but generally better.
Give me the ETB any time, though I'm sure there are exceptions in application of standards.

Good Principals have always endeavoured to develop fair job descriptions and create effective middle management structures. which should add to the teacher's sense of job fulfilment. As earlier posts have mentioned, when an effective Principal moves on, the successor can undo much good good work and co-operation.
I became Principal of a school where the 'posts' consisted of supposedly educational roles (all posts are supposed to be 'educational' in some way) like 'lockers', 'organising tea break', 'cleaning supplies', etc. Oddly enough the holders had to do these jobs effectively for obvious reasons. The real wasters were the guys in school planning', 'games co-ordinator'.... and several others who had nebulous job descriptions usually involving the word 'co-ordinator', none of which were ever effectively done. They always seemed to be the AP1 posts for some reason. I took me quite a while to change matters. Soon the BoM I worked for expected a detailed written report from each post holder. The only teachers who resented having to justify themselves were the ones who tried to do as little as possible and, in fairness, they were few.
For post holders themselves who complain about being 'taken away from the classroom'.... I suggest that is exactly what a post should do. After all, no post consists of extra teaching time though they should be genuinely educational and good schools have moved this way in recent years.
Should you apply for a post?
Yes if you are prepared to take on extra work without complaint and feel it will not adversely effect your teaching. But it is extra paid work so get on with it! Given the levels of actual responsibility in most posts, they pay better than teaching rates.
Whether you work hard at your post or do little, it matters naught if your Principal is a clown. Then you hope s/he moves on/retires/ runs away with the local lothario.......

solerina

RealJohn wrote: »

To be fair, for an extra nearly ten grand a year (pensionable) and teaching time reduced by what, four hours, in order to do it, I’m not sure an AP1 should be “handy”. I wouldn’t apply for an AP2 (again ) for the extra hassle, fairly small pay-rise, and no reduction in hours, but for the benefits of an AP1, I’d apply alright.

As I said, the money is in no way enough when you look at how much you get to do, now I am not in an ETB school so I get no reduction in hours, if I had 4 hours per week to do the post then I would imagine I would think differently, but I have an enormous amount of work to do on top of a full teaching TT so to me I wouldn’t think the money compensates and I wouldn’t go for an AP 1 again if I was starting over. I will stick it out now for the pension benefits.

derb12

solerina wrote: »

As I said, the money is in no way enough when you look at how much you get to do, now I am not in an ETB school so I get no reduction in hours, if I had 4 hours per week to do the post then I would imagine I would think differently, but I have an enormous amount of work to do on top of a full teaching TT so to me I wouldn’t think the money compensates and I wouldn’t go for an AP 1 again if I was starting over. I will stick it out now for the pension benefits.

I’m in the same boat. I have often considered ditching the AP1. In my case it’s mainly due to what someone above referred to as a clown of a principal. It is a significant amount of money which I’d have to be doing a lot of grinds to match. But the whole idea of being part of a school “leadership team” is a nonsense when other members of the team have zero or close to zero teaching hours and you have a full timetable.

Terri26

Treppen wrote:

I thought it was an ETB Vs Voluntary thing, rather than TUI Vs ASTI

You're kind of correct. Nothing to do with being in TUI. Community Schools and Community Colleges give the hours off. Lots of ASTI members have these hours off. Some other secondary schools do give some hours off but it's nothing to do with what union you are in.

am_zarathustra

Is it correct to say in C and C's and ETBs you have to be given the time off but in voluntary that may not be the case, as in it would be down to the principal?

Icsics

am_zarathustra wrote: »

Is it correct to say in C and C's and ETBs you have to be given the time off but in voluntary that may not be the case, as in it would be down to the principal?

Yes, I’m in VS our post holders have varying amounts of time off, resource classes, PME taking their classes etc. They also now have timetabled ‘management meetings’ weekly where they run the school & tell the rest of us minions what they’ve decided via email. And since the latest cohort of post holders are relatively new to teaching it leads to disastrous decisions going unchallenged. But the P & DP can roll on into their next interview with a list of ‘initiatives’ they’ve implemented & examples of ‘building leadership’ on their CV.

Treppen

Icsics wrote: »

Yes, I’m in VS our post holders have varying amounts of time off, resource classes, PME taking their classes etc. They also now have timetabled ‘management meetings’ weekly where they run the school & tell the rest of us minions what they’ve decided via email. And since the latest cohort of post holders are relatively new to teaching it leads to disastrous decisions going unchallenged. But the P & DP can roll on into their next interview with a list of ‘initiatives’ they’ve implemented & examples of ‘building leadership’ on their CV.

One thing I didn't miss during covid was initiatives.
Looks like they'll be back with a vengeance.
I wonder what the next flavor of the month will be?

doc_17

There's a school of thought out there that the Dept would love to make the posts temporary, as in a 3 year term, and then advertise it again.

I had a principal one time who was bewildered that only 2 people went for a B post. They couldn't see that some people just want to teach their class and forget about all the s***** that gets discussed in pointless meetings. meetings are the alternative to work.

am_zarathustra

doc_17 wrote: »

There's a school of thought out there that the Dept would love to make the posts temporary, as in a 3 year term, and then advertise it again.

I had a principal one time who was bewildered that only 2 people went for a B post. They couldn't see that some people just want to teach their class and forget about all the s***** that gets discussed in pointless meetings. meetings are the alternative to work.

The inefficiency of meetings is well documented. Most are surplus to requirements and cause frustration. Adding more into the system seems mad, look what it did to the HSE.

pandoraj09

I never got any time off to do my post. Last year I had 8 classes on Tuesdays, Thursdays and Fridays. As a year head most of my post had to be done during the school day. I used to be standing at my classroom door dealing with distressed kids and talking on the phone to parents, while 28 first years were in my room. This was my situation for the last few years since our duties were increased. I didn't even have tutors last year to help with the smaller issues. It appears some schools are happy to have a list of duties that need to be done by Post holders and they're dished out to us with no real thinking as to whether we can actually do the jobs properly or not. Its changed so much in the last few years and not for the better.

am_zarathustra

There is a lack of respect from management for actual teaching, as if people have forgotten that's us teaching and the kids learning should be the central focus of the school but have no bearing on promotion. Despite the fact I would consider them very basic in my hierarchy of respect for someone in a position of authority in an educational institute.

They will end up with no serious teachers in management, they are heading that was as is. It creates a lack of depth of knowledge of classroom practice and the plethora of mad ideas being pushed in schools.

Completely agree a lot of the changes have not been in the interest of education. No serious educationalist thinks weekly meetings are more valuable than an hour spent actually talking to parents and students but we can all feel better as good little dickensian instrumentalist

Treppen

pandoraj09 wrote: »

I never got any time off to do my post. Last year I had 8 classes on Tuesdays, Thursdays and Fridays. As a year head most of my post had to be done during the school day. I used to be standing at my classroom door dealing with distressed kids and talking on the phone to parents, while 28 first years were in my room. This was my situation for the last few years since our duties were increased. I didn't even have tutors last year to help with the smaller issues. It appears some schools are happy to have a list of duties that need to be done by Post holders and they're dished out to us with no real thinking as to whether we can actually do the jobs properly or not. Its changed so much in the last few years and not for the better.

They may be dished out but there's plenty willing to take them.

Bobtheman

I just found this thread again. My sympathies to those who have been sucked into pointless posts.

I still find it confusing to see practically all post holders go straight home at 345pm. I do know some of them do work at home but it's a minority.

I raised the issue of useless posts in our school but got nowhere. Too many greasy pole climbers about.

It's true that making up the 4k or 2k does take a lot of time but it's under your control when and where you do that.

If anybody is thinking of resigning a post-don't. Play them at their wellness game and say you are stressed. Take a few weeks off. Then see what happens. They can't fire you.

Dickie10

does there ever be pressure put on younger teachers to go for these posts? I have no intention of ever going for a post tbh, I will be ok financially without it.

am_zarathustra

Lots of talk in schools more than pressure. I'd imagine every school has its own ecosystem but from experience a lot of surprising candidates go for them and a preponderance of people with limited whole time teaching experience, makes for teams who's focus is not on what schools were traditionally for ....learning.

Bobtheman

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117668908#Comment_117668908

If you think there is a post you'd actually like doing then consider it. It depends on your mindset. Some people will just want to be mgt even on a small scale.

Some people will never say no to extra money no matter what they have to do for it.

It's still public sector so hard to see how you'd get fired from a post!

But just be prepared for the bullshit express.