Séamus Mallon interview on RTÉ Radio 1 now

McMurphy

realdanbreen wrote: »

Deleted post.

Forgiveness and reconciliation is a weakness now? Something to ridicule

Besides, he never got the chance to due to them losing their place, but had he refused, wouldn't that have seen him leapfrog Paisley in the bigoted dept?

FrancieBrady

realdanbreen wrote: »

Deleted post.

I wonder sometimes are there some who would prefer that we were at war.

Mallon can't reconcile himself with other nationalists ffs by casting a critical eye on what the SDLP actually achieved and it would be very little, had it not been for Hume's solo run. Something he also can't reconcile himself with.

ancapailldorcha

Ok, I've deleted some below standard posts. Blanch152, do not goad other posters please.

BonnieSituation

Can someone tell me what compromises us Nationalists have to make now?

https://amp.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/united-ireland-only-possible-if-nationalists-show-generosity-to-unionists-says-mallon-38143343.html

Genuinely don't know.

markodaly

FrancieBrady wrote: »

He comes across as being very bitter about the demise of the SDLP when it was their own failures that ruined them.
They made a bags of Sunningdale and committed what was correctly viewed as treachery taking seats after it, with no end to internment and no reform of policing. He doesn't get questioned closely enough about himself and O'Grady and others making Hume go on a solo run with his pivotal peacemaking. His worry was about the party and not peace.

All in all the SDLP were too easily used by Unionism and the British, at the expense of Nationalists and they paid the price for that.

This is a great example of the insecurity of SF types when it comes to assessing the history of Nationalist constitutional politics led by people like Hume and Mallon.

There is a simple reason for this hostility. The emperor has no clothes.
Hume, Mallon, the SDLP and indeed the Nationalist population, in general, grew up in the same places that the Provos emerged from. They too saw the injustice that was Stormont and Unionist rule in the North and sought to change that, peacefully.

They grew up in the same environment as Adams and Co. yet they were not compelled to murder and bomb in the name of Irish freedom, hence why there is so much hostility towards the SDLP today from them. They are a living breathing reminder of the past, the errors of what the Provos and Sinn Fein did and they would rather bury them rather than be reminded of the ghosts of the past.

They are a reminder of the failings of the campaign of violence which in retrospect sent the North back decades and a reminder of it all could have been so different, with the present situation arrived upon without the death of thousands.

I for one will always have respect for them and their non-violent means.

markodaly

FrancieBrady wrote: »

We have seen it all before. 'If you use the wrong word, reference an event, no matter what your intention was, we are going to be your judge'.

Just another form of subtle censorship and curtailment.

This is a laugh. You are on record on stating that people should not be allowed wear the Poppy.

FrancieBrady

markodaly wrote: »

This is a great example of the insecurity of SF types when it comes to assessing the history of Nationalist constitutional politics led by people like Hume and Mallon.

There is a simple reason for this hostility. The emperor has no clothes.
Hume, Mallon, the SDLP and indeed the Nationalist population, in general, grew up in the same places that the Provos emerged from. They too saw the injustice that was Stormont and Unionist rule in the North and sought to change that, peacefully.

They grew up in the same environment as Adams and Co. yet they were not compelled to murder and bomb in the name of Irish freedom, hence why there is so much hostility towards the SDLP today from them. They are a living breathing reminder of the past, the errors of what the Provos and Sinn Fein did and they would rather bury them rather than be reminded of the ghosts of the past.

They are a reminder of the failings of the campaign of violence which in retrospect sent the North back decades and a reminder of it all could have been so different, with the present situation arrived upon without the death of thousands.

I for one will always have respect for them and their non-violent means.

You are entitled to that view. As you are to respect whomsoever you wish.

What you cannot do is rewrite the history.
The SDLP achieved very little tangibly for nationalists. And that is why their influence began to wane after the shambles that was Sunningdale.

Had the Unionists not gotten cold feet and pulled the veto yet again, and had actually operated Sunningdale,(which they regarded as a victory) nationalists would have very quickly realised that they had IN FACT been sold a pup and we would have been in a far worse situation.
No end to internment, no reform of policing and the much vaunted Council Of Ireland was still subject to that Unionist veto.
The simple fact is that Unionists and the British were not ready to allow a fair and equal society and the SDLP failed to convince them of that, it would sadly and tragically take them another 20 bloddy years to come around to that. And again, it wasn't the waning more and more irrelevant SDLP that convinced them either.

FrancieBrady

markodaly wrote: »

This is a laugh. You are on record on stating that people should not be allowed wear the Poppy.

I object to Irish people wearing the poppy, whatever that has to do with the point I made.

jm08

markodaly wrote: »

This is a great example of the insecurity of SF types when it comes to assessing the history of Nationalist constitutional politics led by people like Hume and Mallon.

There is a simple reason for this hostility. The emperor has no clothes.
Hume, Mallon, the SDLP and indeed the Nationalist population, in general, grew up in the same places that the Provos emerged from. They too saw the injustice that was Stormont and Unionist rule in the North and sought to change that, peacefully.

They grew up in the same environment as Adams and Co. yet they were not compelled to murder and bomb in the name of Irish freedom, hence why there is so much hostility towards the SDLP today from them. They are a living breathing reminder of the past, the errors of what the Provos and Sinn Fein did and they would rather bury them rather than be reminded of the ghosts of the past.

They are a reminder of the failings of the campaign of violence which in retrospect sent the North back decades and a reminder of it all could have been so different, with the present situation arrived upon without the death of thousands.

I for one will always have respect for them and their non-violent means.

I don't think they did. Both Hume and Mallon had good educations with prospects who became teachers. McGuinness left school at 14 to work in a butchers and Adams after O Levels to become a barman.

Dyr

markodaly wrote: »

They are a reminder of the failings of the campaign of violence which in retrospect sent the North back decades and a reminder of it all could have been so different, with the present situation arrived upon without the death of thousands.

I for one will always have respect for them and their non-violent means.

Different? I suppose having Northern Ireland continue as a gerrymandered sectarian state qualifies as "different". Because Hume and SDLP could never have changed that

There was only one thing that softened the loyalists cough and it was never going to be 30 years of Hume and Mallon wringing their hands on the BBC.

The SDLP were a busted flush after Sunningdale, they only survived as long as they did after that because the violence made them acceptable

PeadarCo

Bambi wrote:

The SDLP were a busted flush after Sunningdale, they only survived as long as they did after that because the violence made them acceptable

They negotiated the GFA. That's some busted flush and that's despite all the issues caused by IRA terrorism. The SDLP also played a key role in bringing SF into the democratic process. Their day in the sun may be over but they were the representatives of the nationalist community and they didn't need to kill a few thousand people in the process.

markodaly

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Had the Unionists not gotten cold feet and pulled the veto yet again, and had actually operated Sunningdale,(which they regarded as a victory) nationalists would have very quickly realised that they had IN FACT been sold a pup and we would have been in a far worse situation.
.

Which is what exactly? 1973 NI was not exactly all that nice and the Provos were still running wild and let's not forget were against any compromise at all. In fact Sean Mac Stiofan wanted the British to withdraw my 1975 or else their campaign of violence was to continue, and continue it did.

PIRA/Sinn Fein like to portray themselves as the people who brought about equality when they were fighting for a United Ireland by the force of a gun. Its quite an about turn.

The deaths of 3500 and over 50,000 injured is not worth what came out of it.
The job of the SDLP was made impossible when the Provos were going around bombing and killing in the name of Nationalists.

People who state with confidence, that there was no other way are blind to the fact that there are other ways and there are numerous examples of non-violent change and civil rights attainment. This is why SDLP are such a threat to the SF myth.

As I said, Sinn Fein are quite insecure about the SDLP because they want to re-write the history that suits their narrative. There is a lot of myth-making in Irish politics and the outcome of the Anglo Irish agreement from Sinn Feins perspective is another example of this.

Farawayhome

markodaly wrote: »

Which is what exactly? 1973 NI was not exactly all that nice and the Provos were still running wild and let's not forget were against any compromise at all. In fact Sean Mac Stiofan wanted the British to withdraw my 1975 or else their campaign of violence was to continue, and continue it did.

PIRA/Sinn Fein like to portray themselves as the people who brought about equality when they were fighting for a United Ireland by the force of a gun. Its quite an about turn.

The deaths of 3500 and over 50,000 injured is not worth what came out of it.
The job of the SDLP was made impossible when the Provos were going around bombing and killing in the name of Nationalists.

People who state with confidence, that there was no other way are blind to the fact that there are other ways and there are numerous examples of non-violent change and civil rights attainment. This is why SDLP are such a threat to the SF myth.

As I said, Sinn Fein are quite insecure about the SDLP because they want to re-write the history that suits their narrative. There is a lot of myth-making in Irish politics and the outcome of the Anglo Irish agreement from Sinn Feins perspective is another example of this.

I have found the politics forum. Time for me to post some facts that will leave poor Mark here desperately searching my post history.

Let's have a look at the start of the war. Nationalists were marching for civil rights, the police force of Northern Ireland beat many protesters and began to murder civilians, including a 9 year old child. Extreme unionists were attacking Nationalist areas and burning Nationalists out of their homes. There obviously were pre-existing issues from 50 years of this protestant state but this kicked off the war.
In response to this, the PIRA were formed. The brave men and women who joined their ranks defended their communities and we owe them a great deal of gratitude. Without them, there would have been a form of ethnic cleansing in the North. There were already many refugee camps set up for Nationalists fleeing the North.
The British army were brought in, the stated reason was to establish peace, the Nationalist communities welcomes them with open arms. They thought they were there to save them from unionist brutality. Unfortunately, they soon realised this was not the case. The British armed forces begun to beat Nationalists, intimidate their communities, smash up houses etc and then of course they began murdering innocents.
Without this British state terrorism, the war would have been short lived. If the British armed forces had been the peacekeepers they were meant to be, it would have prevented so many deaths. It's amazing how people like Mark here talk about myth making when all they have is myths. They want to blame Irish people for standing up to the terrorist campaign inflicted upon us by the British armed forces/unionists/police force etc.