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Development of an Unhealthy Narrative in the GAA?

  • 15-05-2019 4:18pm
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 64 ✭✭ La Bamba


    I would be interested in getting some peoples opinions on this because it has been bugging me increasingly over the past few years.

    Essentially, do you think there has been such an air of negativity in the media in the past 6-7 years around Gaelic Football that it is starting to damage the game?

    In recent times it feels like people have nothing positive to say about football and bemoan the quality of teams playing the game. However I would argue that the quality of football is arguably at a higher level than ever.Just look at a game on GAA Gold and compare it to now and see what you think. What overshadows this is probably the fact that the greatest team of all time (in my opinion) is playing at a much higher level than the rest.

    However, this apocalyptic view did not exist in hurling at a time when Kilkenny were winning all ireland finals by 20+ points. In fact, the narrative in hurling is now nearly over optimistic, with the fact that 20 or so counties who play the game are given no coverage or respect being comepletely ignored im face of the success of the few.

    GAA coverage seems to have rose tinted glasses for everything hurling at the moment and for want of a better description,**** tinted glasses for football.I would love for both sports to be looked at in a more objective manner and with that both can flourish.


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Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 957 BloodyBill


    La Bamba wrote: »
    I would be interested in getting some peoples opinions on this because it has been bugging me increasingly over the past few years.

    Essentially, do you think there has been such an air of negativity in the media in the past 6-7 years around Gaelic Football that it is starting to damage the game?

    In recent times it feels like people have nothing positive to say about football and bemoan the quality of teams playing the game. However I would argue that the quality of football is arguably at a higher level than ever.Just look at a game on GAA Gold and compare it to now and see what you think. What overshadows this is probably the fact that the greatest team of all time (in my opinion) is playing at a much higher level than the rest.

    However, this apocalyptic view did not exist in hurling at a time when Kilkenny were winning all ireland finals by 20+ points. In fact, the narrative in hurling is now nearly over optimistic, with the fact that 20 or so counties who play the game are given no coverage or respect being comepletely ignored im face of the success of the few.

    GAA coverage seems to have rose tinted glasses for everything hurling at the moment and for want of a better description,**** tinted glasses for football.I would love for both sports to be looked at in a more objective manner and with that both can flourish.

    I understand your frustrations but I'd disagree with your assertion. Gaelic Football is not a good field game. Its neither soccer nor rugby. It doesn't have the physical appeal of rugby nor the still of stick games like hurling or hockey. It will forever be a stitched together sport with the occasional game able to set the pulses racing but for the vast majority of the time ,the game as a spectacle is poor.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,240 ✭✭✭ JeffKenna


    Any sport is about competitiveness. Dublin have ruined the game at County level.
    Without Mayo I'm not sure I'd have watched a match in the last few years, I certainly didn't bother with last year's All Ireland final anyway.


  • Registered Users Posts: 459 ✭✭ Davys Fits


    If Dublin werent so strong then yes there would be more balance and competitiveness. However Dublin didnt destroy the super 8's last year. There was 9 matches where Dublin didnt feature but yet it failed to ignite. Gaelic football may become more competitive again but Im not sure the game was ever that brilliant. New champions, exciting finishes and the odd flourish of good football seems to be enough to satisfy some followers. IMO the game will never excel while the handpass continues to be the most used skill as its simply too easy and boring to watch.
    Thousands will disagree but then again very few seem to agree on anything when it comes to improving the game.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 8,724 ✭✭✭ nice_guy80


    it doesn't help that one team gets to play most of their games in a ground in their own county, where they also happen to play most of their league games.
    The Dub players are so used of the place as even the kids in primary school get to play their finals in Croke Park.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,660 ✭✭✭ armaghlad


    Just my tuppence worth but it seems nowadays the purists have a bee in their bonnet when it comes to the modern game. They hark back to the days of catch and kick where you could have an ogre at full back and a bear in the square and the ball would be hoofed from one end to the other and they’d field the ball in midfield and drive it high up into the heavens and everything was so much better back then... all this nostalgia manifests itself in their tv analysis and newspaper columns and we end up believing that Gaelic football has regressed and that rule changes are needed. The likes of the black card and the mark are in IMO unnecessary, one isn’t implemented properly and the other doesn’t work the way it was intended.

    I agree that football is at a higher standard now than it has ever been. At inter county level Dublin are streets ahead and although I don’t expect this to last forever, I don’t see any other county (including Kerry) ever getting to that level of dominance. Trees don’t grow to the sky and all that. Until Dublin are properly knocked off their perch however, we will have to continue to endure this narrative that football is ****ed and that it’s crap to watch etc, the reality is it is a lot more competitive across the divisions than hurling will ever be


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 97 ✭✭✭ Nic_Col


    Both football and hurling somehow managed to go well over a century before moving beyond play your position, stick to your zone and mark your man. It's actually kind of astonishing it took so long for a shift towards short hand passing and possession retention at all costs to take hold. Football is unlucky as flooding the defence and getting numbers behind the ball is an effective strategy unlike in hurling where scores can easily be picked off from distance by comparison.

    I do feel however that certain pundits and analysts should spend a bit more time actually analysing the game rather than moaning about how it was so much better back in their day.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,651 ✭✭✭ keeponhurling


    The negativity of pundits is of course very annoying.
    But The Sunday Game, although the most watched, is not the only source of a GAA analysis.

    Gaelic football is a great sport


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,162 ✭✭✭ megadodge


    BloodyBill wrote: »
    Gaelic Football is not a good field game. Its neither soccer nor rugby.

    Ya don't say Einstein!

    Using that logic, every sport not called soccer or rugby is not a good game. Truly bizarre!
    It will forever be a stitched together sport

    Are you one of those "it's an invented sport" types?

    All sports were invented.

    There are commonalities with other sports in every sport in the world. EVERY single sport.
    the occasional game able to set the pulses racing but for the vast majority of the time ,the game as a spectacle is poor.

    Perfect description of soccer.

    Yet it's hugely popular.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,162 ✭✭✭ megadodge


    La Bamba wrote: »
    I would be interested in getting some peoples opinions on this because it has been bugging me increasingly over the past few years.

    Essentially, do you think there has been such an air of negativity in the media in the past 6-7 years around Gaelic Football that it is starting to damage the game?

    In recent times it feels like people have nothing positive to say about football and bemoan the quality of teams playing the game. However I would argue that the quality of football is arguably at a higher level than ever.Just look at a game on GAA Gold and compare it to now and see what you think. What overshadows this is probably the fact that the greatest team of all time (in my opinion) is playing at a much higher level than the rest.

    However, this apocalyptic view did not exist in hurling at a time when Kilkenny were winning all ireland finals by 20+ points. In fact, the narrative in hurling is now nearly over optimistic, with the fact that 20 or so counties who play the game are given no coverage or respect being comepletely ignored im face of the success of the few.

    GAA coverage seems to have rose tinted glasses for everything hurling at the moment and for want of a better description,**** tinted glasses for football.I would love for both sports to be looked at in a more objective manner and with that both can flourish.


    Excellent post.

    I often wonder am I the only one sick and tired of the utterly relentless negativity of The Sunday Game. I tune in to see matches, yet in a horrible likeness to those brutal reality shows, the program ends up being more about the pundits than the actual matches.

    Well I for one don't give a sh*t about the pundits and their pathetic "everything was so much better in the old days" bullsh*t! Just show more football and less pubtalk masquerading as punditry.

    The sad thing though is this is not a recent phenomenon. I can remember when Kerry were 4 in a row champs and the general talk was how they were "destoying football". Basically people talking through their holes rather than using their brains. Well, shock horror, football wasn't destroyed and no, football won't be destroyed in the near future either. It will go on. And it will attract enormous interest. And we will have the usual claptrap from the usual suspects looking for attention - and getting it from other similar miserable souls incapable of independent thought.

    Oooh, it feels good to get that off my chest.


  • Registered Users Posts: 64 ✭✭ La Bamba


    I posted something similar in another thread but even after three great games there was nothing but negativity.

    Longford and Kildare went toe to toe over 90 minutes and instead of analysing, afterwards Brolly tells us that there is "no point" to Longfords champiomship campaign ?. No analysis but promotion of a tieres championship constantly ( where div2 Kildare
    and div 3 Longford would be seperated to make it "fairer").

    Why would any weaker county vote for a tiered championship particularly when you look at the non existant promotion Joe McDonagh, Christy Ring, Nicky Rackard and Lory Meaghar get?. If ever there was a way to widen the gap between the top 6 or so football counties and the rest this is it.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 8,724 ✭✭✭ nice_guy80


    its all being driven by 'elitism'
    it has become entrenched across Irish society and is now showing itself in the GAA and media who cover the games


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,248 ✭✭✭ shockframe


    La Bamba wrote: »
    I would be interested in getting some peoples opinions on this because it has been bugging me increasingly over the past few years.

    Essentially, do you think there has been such an air of negativity in the media in the past 6-7 years around Gaelic Football that it is starting to damage the game?

    In recent times it feels like people have nothing positive to say about football and bemoan the quality of teams playing the game. However I would argue that the quality of football is arguably at a higher level than ever.Just look at a game on GAA Gold and compare it to now and see what you think. What overshadows this is probably the fact that the greatest team of all time (in my opinion) is playing at a much higher level than the rest.

    However, this apocalyptic view did not exist in hurling at a time when Kilkenny were winning all ireland finals by 20+ points. In fact, the narrative in hurling is now nearly over optimistic, with the fact that 20 or so counties who play the game are given no coverage or respect being comepletely ignored im face of the success of the few.

    GAA coverage seems to have rose tinted glasses for everything hurling at the moment and for want of a better description,**** tinted glasses for football.I would love for both sports to be looked at in a more objective manner and with that both can flourish.

    The relentless negativity goes back to the mid 00s. It has done a fair bit of damage to the reputation of the game.

    The irony is though that Gaelic Football still provides some top class games year in year out. This season alone has had an enjoyable sigerson final, Corofin/Gweedore club semi, a highly entertaining league with an edge of the seat Mayo/Kerry final, on top of a reasonably good start to the championship with minor/under 20 and the latter stages of the senior still to come.

    I include all the grades because people judge the game on the senior alone. There's a lot more going on with Football than its given credit for.

    The Hurling championship in general is terribly overblown. Last years championship was quite something but Hurling fans would have you believe it is like that every season. Over the last 20 years there has been around 3 great years for championship -07,13, and 18. The rest has a mix of good to average games. There will be better games later in the year but hurling suffers from too much myth-making.

    Both championships on average provide their fair share of underwhelming to decent games in any year but people see what they want to.

    Also I couldn't help but notice the terrible standard of Champions League final on Saturday. Could you imagine the outcry for an similar All Ireland Football final. Some Irish Liverpool fans on Social Media were mocking the standard of play last September and making smart comments about Gaelic Football and need for entertainment. I've noticed a lot of 'winning is the only thing that counts' style turning the other cheek as Liverpool won.


  • Registered Users Posts: 82 ✭✭ westcork67


    Gaelic Football is a great game which has had its ups and downs - for sure the "Donegal-defense" style of play made it hard to watch for a few years but attacking football is on its way back and the best games of the championship so far this year, hurling and football, have been the football ones.

    I am a fan of soccer and rugby as well and whereas the skill of the former or the physicality of the latter are impressive, neither has the speed, athleticism and scoring levels that Gaelic Football has - a good test is to watch an under 14 or 16 match in all codes (which I do through kids being involved etc) - by far the most entertaining is Gaelic Football! You don't have the cynicism or tactics that can infest our senior games - it is played as it was and is intended to be and then the true virtues of the game shine and it is the most entertaining and I include hurling in that


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,452 ✭✭✭ ArnoldJRimmer


    If I hear that Brolly is gonna be on the night time Sunday Game show, I've actually just stopped watching it. I generally mute the analysis during the live games on RTE. I like Tomas O Se and Ciaran Whelan, the Gooch is harmless, but the rest on RTE are unwatchable. The constant attacks on the game over the last few years are disgraceful, but RTE still think that getting clowns to say something controversial and then shout and gesticulate a bit passes as entertainment.

    Sky and even the BBC who employ Martin McHugh are much better. Its possible to do analysis of a game, even a poor one, without attacking the sport. The hurling championship this year has been a damp squib, with no exciting games on live TV to date, but they still provide reasoned analysis of games


  • Users Awaiting Email Confirmation Posts: 2,176 ✭✭✭ ToBeFrank123


    Credit to Dublin for all they have achieved, but overall, the game is dying at IC level and of little or no interest to the average sports fan anymore. Only hardcore GAA supporters will follow the sport in future, and the GAA have lost the soft or sunshine supporter who would go to watch a competitive game.

    What father or mother is going to pay for their family into Croke Park to watch their team being hammered out the gate by Dublin? Even many Dublin supporters have seen these games are completely pointless.

    The Scottish Premier League has long been a running joke of a competition where you can put Celtic's name on the cup before a ball has been kicked. The GAA football championship has ended up the same. And there's little that can be done to resurrect it as a spectacle for the neutral. Even hardcore supporters are losing interest.

    As for negative coverage, the game of football has become negative and cynical over the last decade, so no surprising the commentary and punditry would reflect this. The ball is handpassed to death, 3 or 4 men swarm around players with the ball, 13 or 14 men behind the ball, etc etc. So its not the pundits fault the game is negative. Most counties don't have 5 or 6 or 10 or more marquee forwards to call on if you are a Dublin or a Kerry so they just have to set out their stall with what they have which leads to negative slogging matches.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,681 ✭✭✭ RoyalCelt


    It's going to get far worse. If they make the championship a league format it will make it even easier for Dublin to keep making finals with their never ending depth. I don't know if Dublin will do 5,6,7 or 8 in a row but they will lose one eventually. But that will just spell the beginning of another 5, 6 or 7 in a row.

    If it wasn't for Tyrone last decade we would have went from a terrible kerry dominance to this Dublin dominance. Other sports must be rubbing their hands in glee.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,829 ✭✭✭ robbiezero


    The start of the championship largely being a damp squib I think doesn't help it either. The negative hackles are raised straight way for the football championship and people get frustrated at the ratio of decent competitive games to either hidings or irrelevant games in the early stages.

    We have had a few decent high level clashes, Mayo v Ros, Monaghan v Cavan and Tyrone v Donegal, but the vast majority of games have been just go through the motions for the top teams or just irrelevant for the neutral if they are close games between low-level opposition.

    The league is a far better competition than the majority of the championship. Then you have the spectre of a dominant Dublin looming over all and its quite hard to get too exciting about it particularly in the early stages.

    I think the game is crying out for some sort of tiered championship, when you see the Sunday game report on games like Longford v Carlow or Antrim v Louth last night, there is no context to these games at all, they are just stays of execution as opposed to a path to anywhere for the teams involved.

    If they could manage to create something with tiers but allow the winners of each tier to progress further in the same year, I think it would be great like where the Joe MacDonagh finalists get to play the 3rd placers in the hurling (too big of a gap for these games to be meaningful in the hurling, but something similar in football might work quite well).


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,526 ✭✭✭ ArielAtom


    My Jesus I didn’t realise there were so many Spewan fanboys on here. It amazes me that this all started with Dublin winning. We’re all the highly offended snowflakes as easily upset at Kilkennys recent success, or is it capital city syndrome our poor country cousins are suffering from???


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 26,661 ✭✭✭✭ OldMrBrennan83


    BloodyBill wrote: »
    I understand your frustrations but I'd disagree with your assertion. Gaelic Football is not a good field game. Its neither soccer nor rugby. It doesn't have the physical appeal of rugby nor the still of stick games like hurling or hockey. It will forever be a stitched together sport with the occasional game able to set the pulses racing but for the vast majority of the time ,the game as a spectacle is poor.

    Throwing rugby in just meant anything else you said was null and void. It's a 'sport' for people without any physical skill.


  • Registered Users Posts: 13,765 ✭✭✭✭ Beechwoodspark


    So we are not even allowed raise the issue of the huge advantages that Dublin have it seems


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 26,661 ✭✭✭✭ OldMrBrennan83


    So we are not even allowed raise the issue of the huge advantages that Dublin have it seems

    You can. There's a thread for it.


  • Registered Users Posts: 13,765 ✭✭✭✭ Beechwoodspark


    You can. There's a thread for it.

    Changes in the gaa?


  • Registered Users Posts: 15,776 ✭✭✭✭ Slattsy


    Changes in the gaa?

    That's the one. Go nuts kid. X


  • Registered Users Posts: 17,263 ✭✭✭✭ kippy


    BloodyBill wrote: »
    I understand your frustrations but I'd disagree with your assertion. Gaelic Football is not a good field game. Its neither soccer nor rugby. It doesn't have the physical appeal of rugby nor the still of stick games like hurling or hockey. It will forever be a stitched together sport with the occasional game able to set the pulses racing but for the vast majority of the time ,the game as a spectacle is poor.

    Interesting that the OP is comparinging and contrasting the narrative around the GAA sports and did not bring up Soccer or Rugby. Why did you bring up this angle?

    There are plenty of games of rugby/soccer that are absolutely turgid affairs - the same with hurling and football.

    The OP's point is that there is a serious negativity around the All Ireland Football series versus the hurling series - particularily in the past few years and this is primarily because of two things:
    1. The utter dominance of Dublin.
    2. The fact that the hurling series sees the best teams play each other in very quick succession.

    Two things have to happen.
    1. The money that is distributed amongst the grassroots has to be spread more evenly.
    2. A different format for the all ireland series is needed.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,452 ✭✭✭ ArnoldJRimmer


    robbiezero wrote: »
    The start of the championship largely being a damp squib I think doesn't help it either. The negative hackles are raised straight way for the football championship and people get frustrated at the ratio of decent competitive games to either hidings or irrelevant games in the early stages.

    We have had a few decent high level clashes, Mayo v Ros, Monaghan v Cavan and Tyrone v Donegal, but the vast majority of games have been just go through the motions for the top teams or just irrelevant for the neutral if they are close games between low-level opposition.

    Genuine question, is this the case for most people? There have been a ton of games in this championship that hold my interest so much more than a one sided Dublin match (around 90% of them), who are one of the greatest teams in the history of the game. I don't see a local derby between Down and Armagh or Laois and Westmeath as irrelevant either, I was on the edge of my seat for Cavan v Monaghan even though I'm from neither county.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,829 ✭✭✭ robbiezero


    Genuine question, is this the case for most people? There have been a ton of games in this championship that hold my interest so much more than a one sided Dublin match (around 90% of them), who are one of the greatest teams in the history of the game. I don't see a local derby between Down and Armagh or Laois and Westmeath as irrelevant either, I was on the edge of my seat for Cavan v Monaghan even though I'm from neither county.

    I wouldn't consider those low-level games.
    Westmeath v Waterford, London v Offaly, Louth v Antrim etc.
    Those games are just stays of execution really. I think they would be far more interesting in the context of those teams genuinely going for a trophy.
    Thats from a neutral perspective, obviously there will be local interest.


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,198 ✭✭✭ dobman88


    robbiezero wrote: »
    I wouldn't consider those low-level games.
    Westmeath v Waterford, London v Offaly, Louth v Antrim etc.
    Those games are just stays of execution really. I think they would be far more interesting in the context of those teams genuinely going for a trophy.
    Thats from a neutral perspective, obviously there will be local interest.

    After the hurling on Sunday, they showed highlights of Saturday's football and a quick interview with the Antrim manager. He said he knows they're not gonna win the Championship and they hope to give a good account of themselves when they play. All I could think was the difference a tiered championship would make if these lads had chance of a big prize after 8 months training instead of just trying to give a good account of themselves before inevitably being knocked out of the qualifiers


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,452 ✭✭✭ ArnoldJRimmer


    robbiezero wrote: »
    I wouldn't consider those low-level games.
    Westmeath v Waterford, London v Offaly, Louth v Antrim etc.
    Those games are just stays of execution really. I think they would be far more interesting in the context of those teams genuinely going for a trophy.
    Thats from a neutral perspective, obviously there will be local interest.

    I was actually refreshing my Twitter feed for updates on Louth v Antrim and Carlow v Longford at the weekend. And again, these teams haven't a hope of winning an AI or even provincial title, but I still love following and watching these games when they are on. Maybe they will have more meaning in a tiered championship, but I highly doubt we'll get to see them then either given the disdain that is constantly shown to teams that aren't in the top 6


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,829 ✭✭✭ robbiezero


    I was actually refreshing my Twitter feed for updates on Louth v Antrim and Carlow v Longford at the weekend. And again, these teams haven't a hope of winning an AI or even provincial title, but I still love following and watching these games when they are on. Maybe they will have more meaning in a tiered championship, but I highly doubt we'll get to see them then either given the disdain that is constantly shown to teams that aren't in the top 6

    Was keeping an eye on them myself. I think the GAA badly need their own TV channel and show some of these games. I'd certainly watch them. The treatment of the Joe McDonagh is terrible too and there is no point in blaming RTE, its up to the GAA to get it the exposure it deserves. It has probably been more competitive than the Munster championship this year.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,452 ✭✭✭ ArnoldJRimmer


    robbiezero wrote: »
    Was keeping an eye on them myself. I think the GAA badly need their own TV channel and show some of these games. I'd certainly watch them. The treatment of the Joe McDonagh is terrible too and there is no point in blaming RTE, its up to the GAA to get it the exposure it deserves. It has probably been more competitive than the Munster championship this year.

    100% agree on the coverage, I've been watching the McDonagh cup in recent weeks on the GAA.ie website, and its such a good option to have.


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