New manager has no Qualification or experience

Doterraorange

I am working in a marketing role the last 3 years and have a diploma in digital marketing which i done in DBS a number of years ago.

I am currently the only marketing person within the company, I am a dedicated worker and know the role inside out and have a lot of respect from my colleagues.
My Manager left in February to go to another company, they weren't in a hurry to get someone else in and I was managing everything the past 8/9 weeks.

We had a temp in, covering a maternity role in Quality dept. The temp is a sister of the HR manager. she was due to finish up last 2 weeks ago.

I got called in to say that she would be sitting in with me to see what my role involves and to show her the ropes basically
I didn't ask any questions and She sat in with me for 3 hours a day all last week, I asked her if she'd worked in marketing before and she said no that it was a new experience for her , I wasn't sure what she meant, so i said ''Oh how do you mean a new experience'', she said they have offered her the marketing managers role :eek: I just said ''oh really, so you have some marketing experience?' she said that she didn't and had a qualification in Quality. I asked her would the company be sending her on a course, she said she wasn't sure.

I was called into HR this morning to say that this person (her sister) would be stepping into the marketing managers role from next week and was told she would be sitting in with me all this week training in on what is involved in the role.

I'm totally baffled:eek: I'm in this role 3 years, i basically feel like an office junior is coming in to manage me :rolleyes:

This wouldn't be the first time this company has given roles to people internally that have no experience, I know its probably a great opportunity for the person with no qualifications but I feel belittled.

One of my HR friends told me that i should say to them that this person cannot be my manager as they do not have any experience in marketing , but i don't want to be upsetting anyone.

Is this normal ? has anyone experienced this before?

punisher5112

Are you been paid extra to train???

If not why not ask... Also ask for a raise....

uck51js9zml2yt

Sister of the HR manager....says it all. Get a new job. You won't win this one

Apart from your suspicion of nepotism, can you think of any reasons why you weren’t promoted to the position? Are you good at the hat you do, but perhaps not good at managing/getting the best out of others? Have there been issues with colleagues that are counting against you?

judeboy101

No pay no train end of story. Do the job you are paid to do, not other ppls job.

_Brian

Ahmad Silly Tube wrote: »

Sister of the HR manager....says it all. Get a new job. You won't win this one

Honestly i can’t think of better advice than this.
If your happy in your role and no aspirations on moving up to the management role maybe sit it out. But otherwise you in a loose loose situation.

You can go to HR and complain but giving what just happened it will be nonuse.

Duane Dibbley

Unless they plan on increasing the Marketing Team. Why would they hire a Marketing Manager to oversee one person?

MarkR

First, find a new job. Put down all the stuff you've been doing, especially the "above and beyond" stuff, and get searching for a new job. |Get some interviews down, and see how the market is. If your skills are valued more elsewhere, then you have leverage. Once you are at that stage, it's time for the talk. Tell whoever you report to (not the new person obviously), that you feel you've been passed over, and will be looking elsewhere.

They may offer a pay raise, but these types are raises aren't sustainable. You'll be back where you are now in a year.

Take what you've leared, and get gone.

Doterraorange

@Duane Dibbley They are expanding ''apparently'' in the next 6 months.

ziedth

Just for full disclosure OP did you have eyes on the role or make it known that you would like to take it on? It is reading like your issue is you are happy in the role but simply that you are annoyed that this person doesn't have a marketing background and you don't want to be managed by them?

Doterraorange

Dav010 wrote: »

Apart from your suspicion of nepotism, can you think of any reasons why you weren’t promoted to the position? Are you good at the hat you do, but perhaps not good at managing/getting the best out of others? Have there been issues with colleagues that are counting against you?

Maybe because she didn't want her sister to be out of a job :rolleyes:

Of course I am good at what I do, I am in Marketing 6 years and in this current role 3 years and am qualified, I am very passionate about my job and well respected by my colleagues, my colleagues have been shocked at this too that she would suddenly give her sister (that was temping here) a role that she has no experience in.

Doterraorange

punisher5112 wrote: »

Are you been paid extra to train???

If not why not ask... Also ask for a raise....

No, when someone new starts in any company don't they have to be trained in within the department? I've never heard of anyone ever getting extra pay to train a new person in

The high horse brigade

Doterraorange wrote: »

No, when someone new starts in any company don't they have to be trained in within the department? I've never heard of anyone ever getting extra pay to train a new person in

I've been paid extra to train, it's very much the norm to get extra or bonus to train and I'd not do it otherwise

Doterraorange

ziedth wrote: »

Just for full disclosure OP did you have eyes on the role or make it known that you would like to take it on? It is reading like your issue is you are happy in the role but simply that you are annoyed that this person doesn't have a marketing background and you don't want to be managed by them?

Hi , No i never even thought about it TBH, i have been asking when my manager would be replaced but i haven't once mentioned myself taking the role as I am happy enough with the role I'm in. HR just kept telling me there's no rush to get anyone in, I feel like she was biding her time for her sister to finish the temp role in QA.
Yes you are right, I am annoyed that someone with no experience in marketing is coming in to replace my manager, yet I'm the one that's going to have to train her in, it doesn't make sense. She is the one that's going to be coming to me asking how to do this and that. It's like an Office junior coming in and taking over:rolleyes:

I know it's because of who she is related to.

matrim

Does she have management experience outside of marketing?

ziedth

If it were me as you are happy with role I would just keep head down and work away as normal offer any help that you can within reason and leave them fall on their own sword if they are not up to it. Having said that getting you to train your new manager in an area that he/she has no experience in is horrific from HR in my opinion. Showing the rope is one thing but starting from the basics erodes away any potential respect that you will need to have

short answer OP:

its none of your business who gets the managers role.

it would be very very standard to provide training if required in any workplace, it doesnt need to be specifically covered as a role.

if you aren't happy with it, consider your options.

Doterraorange

matrim wrote: »

Does she have management experience outside of marketing?

She didn't say, she just said she had a quality qualification and background.

Doterraorange

Deleted User wrote: »

short answer OP:

its none of your business who gets the managers role.

it would be very very standard to provide training if required in any workplace, it doesnt need to be specifically covered as a role.

if you aren't happy with it, consider your options.

Thank you for taking your time to reply.
Of course it is my business, it is someone coming into my department that i will be working with 8 hours a day.
I am not happy with it as i find it very disrespectful the way it was handled, so yes i will consider my options. CV been done up today

Neon_Lights

You could find another role tbh and then use it as potential leverage with the C-suite for a short period but things like this never hold through

It's the simple case in Ireland of not what you know but who you know.

Take heart in the fact that Incompetency always shows through though so take it as a lesson and move on. The new manager if not skilled will make a fool of themselves.

I know colleagues feel sorry for you, but as much as it's getting work done it's also a game. Be kind, be professional but also at the end of the day don't get walked all over. I'd give them the two fingers and embrace new opportunities.

Get Real

There are negatives here op, in that you have more experience and could have maybe gone for the position yourself (maybe you wouldn't have wanted to though) and the obvious nepotism.

It could also be a blessing in disguise. You know the ropes. She doesn't. You could tip away as you have been, and her lack of knowledge would prevent her from increasing your workload/ actually monitoring what you're doing.

I wouldn't make an issue of it for my own personal sake. Try it out and it might actually be a huge benefit to you. If not, and you want a bigger slice of the pie, move jobs and talk up your experience of managing alone.

matrim

Doterraorange wrote: »

She didn't say, she just said she had a quality qualification and background.

So she might have experience for a management role. Just not specific to marketing.

Are you upset that you weren't offered it? Had you expressed an interest?

Neon_Lights

matrim wrote: »

So she might have experience for a management role. Just not specific to marketing.

Are you upset that you weren't offered it? Had you expressed an interest?

Looking at the merriam-webster dictionary

Manager (noun) a person windowdress achievements to the C-suite and senior management, shysters plans and swindles budgets, occasionally motivates people

Doterraorange

matrim wrote: »

So she might have experience for a management role. Just not specific to marketing.

Are you upset that you weren't offered it? Had you expressed an interest?

No I'm not upset that i wasn't offered it, i'm upset that someone with no experience is going to be my new manager and it is obviously Nepotism.
however, yes it would have been nice to be asked , especially been here 3 years but then i suppose blood is thicker than water.

I appreciate all the advise and will bring my experience and knowledge to another company that deserves me.

punisher5112

Doterraorange wrote: »

No, when someone new starts in any company don't they have to be trained in within the department? I've never heard of anyone ever getting extra pay to train a new person in

I have.

Neon_Lights

punisher5112 wrote: »

I have.

"Oh....Where does it say training in my job description??? "

Boom_Bap

If you want to remain in that company, you should accept that you have a new manager and train them to the standard that you have been asked to do.
It's up to them to then take the lead on the role following the training period.


Given the circumstances around how they have gotten into the role, I would start documenting everything, any conversation, any work request and how you followed through with it.

trihead

Was the position advertised?
Issue for HR if not - I’m assuming it was.

bullpost

Did the previous manager have more than 1 direct report? And how hands-on marketing work did they do?

Just seems odd if you were only direct report for previous manager , unless they were doing a significant amount of marketing ?

jcd5971

If you want to leave over it then contact a recruiter and don't put your heart into training the sister.

If you want to stay, there is no harm at all in looking for a few quid, hr manager would most likely even back such a request especially if the appointment of her sister is nepotism.

Also another point of view if you train in your new manager well and actually help her, you probably have a strong ally in her going forward, and you get to shed alot of responsibility.

It all really depends on your ambitions.

rd1izb7lvpuksx

The high horse brigade wrote: »

I've been paid extra to train, it's very much the norm to get extra or bonus to train and I'd not do it otherwise

In the private sector, whether or not you are paid extra for providing onboarding training depends on the company and industry. It is not the norm to be paid, and almost all employment contracts include other duties clauses that would cover such training.

trihead wrote: »

Was the position advertised?
Issue for HR if not - I’m assuming it was.

There's no requirement to advertise positions prior to filling them in Ireland.

Dial Hard

The high horse brigade wrote:

I've been paid extra to train, it's very much the norm to get extra or bonus to train and I'd not do it otherwise

I've been in the workplace a long time and I have literally never been paid extra to train a new hire in nor heard of it being done. It's just part and parcel of working life, ime.

_Brian

The high horse brigade wrote: »

I've been paid extra to train, it's very much the norm to get extra or bonus to train and I'd not do it otherwise

I’d consider that unusual, most contracts allow for current employees to be requested to train. I’ve had push back from lads but in the end they knuckled down and got the job done.

decky1

don't be soft , you may find it hard or upsetting but speak up , in all these big companies your only a number they don't care , seen it so many times.have a look around for a new job you will feel better.

Aint Eazy Being Cheezy

Dial Hard wrote: »

I've been in the workplace a long time and I have literally never been paid extra to train a new hire in nor heard of it being done. It's just part and parcel of working life, ime.

Depends on if you’ve asked for it or not. In my workplace, if someone asks for a rise to train in a new hire, that gives us a decision to make. If they say nothing, it’s safe to assume they’re happy to do so.

matrim

Aint Eazy Being Cheezy wrote: »

Depends on if you’ve asked for it or not. In my workplace, if someone asks for a rise to train in a new hire, that gives us a decision to make. If they say nothing, it’s safe to assume they’re happy to do so.

Personally, I wouldn't ask for a raise to train a new hire, but I would use the fact that I train new hires as a reason for me deserving a raise the next time I was asking.

Doterraorange

Doterraorange wrote: »

Thank you for taking your time to reply.
Of course it is my business, it is someone coming into my department that i will be working with 8 hours a day.
I am not happy with it as i find it very disrespectful the way it was handled, so yes i will consider my options. CV been done up today

im not saying it doesnt affect you. clearly it does.

that doesnt make it your business!

how you react to it is your business.

good for you, re: cv. thats the best option available to you imo.

micky jammy delahunty

Doterraorange wrote: »

Is this normal ? has anyone experienced this before?

Yeah.....I've had the experience several times. The first time was a real shock. Being asked, literally, to show a manager how I did my job, so they could manage me. And they couldn't actually understand, the most basic features of what I did.

The next few times, I wasn't so shocked, but came to the conclusion that managers are hired for being a certain "type" of person, and that "type" of person generally knows nothing. Nepotism is usually a feature, but things like social class too. It can get horrifying. Like if you're in something like sales, and your sales manager shouldn't have been promoted, and should have been fired for not being able to make any sales, is managing you.

Something that no one has warned you clearly about yet. When you get these obviously unskilled and incompetent types helicoptered in from above, they will often try and fire and replace you, so your replacement doesn't know anything about them and just assumes they're competent.

micks_address

I thought this was a thread about ole Gunner solskjaer

trihead

trihead wrote: »

Was the position advertised?
Issue for HR if not - I’m assuming it was.

:pac::pac::pac:

micky jammy delahunty wrote: »

… but came to the conclusion that managers are hired for being a certain "type" of person, and that "type" of person generally knows nothing. Nepotism is usually a feature, but things like social class too.

Hasn't been a feature in any workplaces I've worked in. I can imagine something like this happening in 'Mom 'n Pop' type outfits.

IAMAMORON

Op - Start looking for a new job. It does appear that your company does not value you as an employee. It is highly possible that you are actually about to train in your replacement. Be careful if she is connected to HR.

The fact that they lacked expediency in finding a replacement would indicate to me that they do not value the marketing department. It is no biggie for them. Obviously people higher up the company have more control over this than you are being led to believe. The fact that you were never offered the role in the first place is alarming. If they liked you at all you would have been given a token pay rise and a promotion.

Get out of there while you still can.

rathbaner

Doterraorange wrote: »

Is this normal ? has anyone experienced this before?

Every poster here is screaming GET OUT! like in the movie of the same name.


You're going nowhere in that company.



Consider for a moment how the senior managers came to think this appointment was a good idea. "Yea, she's my sister, no experience, but she's lovely..."



Let's say that one of the managers pointed out that you were already there and held in good regard and could do the job. How did that play, given the result?


If the new person leaves to travel the world in three months, the work will be dumped on you, unless the HR person has another sister at a loose end of course.


You'll have to make a fuss if you want to be heard, but then you're making enemies in HR for life. Get Out.

Unanimous

OP, I would be very mindful of the training I give to her.
Because in the end, for close to a year, you will basically be her manager in terms of taking responsibility for the team.
The HR lady should have promoted you and asked her sister to take your job.
I would say just show her what you do but don't pass any skills/personal knowledge gained through your experience to her.
That team is destined to fail so I would advise looking for a better job now

punisher5112

Where I work it's mainly family or close relatives that get promoted.

The more useless they are the better chance of movement.

micky jammy delahunty

Deleted User wrote: »

Hasn't been a feature in any workplaces I've worked in. I can imagine something like this happening in 'Mom 'n Pop' type outfits.

No, it goes on in places of all sizes. My first experience was in a place employing several hundred people, which collapsed to slightly over 50 people, and this was mainly due to the senior manager over my section of the company it seems going out of his way to put the most incompetent people in management positions he could. It was so bad, I remember a friend who worked elsewhere, repeat a story about what one of the managers at my company said to a client, and they said they didn't believe it, but it was true. But it's also the reason clients started pulling their projects from the company en masse.

mikemac2

I was that manager!

Recruiter put me forward for a role and the job spec I was given was nothing like the job on offer at all, completely inaccurate. Was told the real role in the interview. I was astounded to get an offer and I took it and failed badly. I left within six months to a role I was much better suited for and happier at. Was a mistake by both me and the company, no hard feelings on my side

The guy who trained me was a great chap and I was rooting for him to get the role I left and sure enough he did

Maybe she will fail OP and you get it but you have to ask why didn't you get it this time. It's not entirely down to the HR manager, your senior managers were involved here too. How do you get on with them? You say you are well regarded but how solid is that?

Odelay

I thought these appointments had to be advertised? That it is to give everyone an equal opportunity to apply?

kravmaga

Sounds like you have been shafted, now they want you to train her in as well, tell them a big fat NO.

Does not sound like a professional outfit to me, more like a Mickey Mouse operation, nepotism rife also, sister is the HR Manager , id get the CV up-dated and start looking around if it was me.

quokula

I've never known HR to actually make hiring decisions anywhere I've worked? It's up to the person responsible for the team being hired into, or senior management. HR usually just handle the admin. So I'd question whether the HR manager has the power to put their sister into a role they're unqualified for.

Secondly, management is not the same job as doing the actual work. I work in software engineering and I've known great engineers get "promoted" to management where they failed miserably, and people who had little real engineering experience do a great job at managing a team.

With that said I've never known a manager to oversee one person, that doesn't make any sense to me, so maybe this is more of a hands on role which would need someone with more experience - maybe whoever was making the hiring decisions didn't know that since you're apparently the only marketing person in the company and weren't involved.

Also I'm shocked at the number of people saying you should refuse to train / demand extra pay for it. If someone at my job ever refused to help train up a new joiner they'd be laughed out of the office and told not to come back. I can't believe that's something anyone would even question, how can companies even operate when people act so selfishly?

micky jammy delahunty

quokula wrote: »

I've never known HR to actually make hiring decisions anywhere I've worked? It's up to the person responsible for the team being hired into, or senior management. HR usually just handle the admin. So I'd question whether the HR manager has the power to put their sister into a role they're unqualified for.

It massively depends. Sometimes the HR is just someone who does admin, other times they do in fact have massive power. As much so, other managers are frightened of them, because they can get them fired.

Unqualified, depends on what you mean. If the company is more concerned with "people" "skills", and the person has "people" "skills", then they are qualified.

AmberGold

Keep the head down, get out at your own pace, when you’re ready.

You’re wasting your time complaining, looking for more money to train etc.