Made to hoover and clean office

SATSUMA

Ok,

So there are 8-10 of us in an office. Each of us are on rotation to clean. This involves hoovering 2 large rooms, cleaning tables, fridge, empty bins, bring down bags of rubbish and boxes to another part of a large building. It takes at least one hour and more often than not, it's not done very well! There is no "deep cleaning".

At first i didn't think to question it, i just rolled up my sleeves and got stuck in. However, now i think it's unfair. We have more staff now the place gets dirty.

Can i/we refuse to clean and on what grounds? Do other organisations have to do their own cleaning?

Thanks

Shefwedfan

SATSUMA wrote: »

Ok,

So there are 8-10 of us in an office. Each of us are on rotation to clean. This involves hoovering 2 large rooms, cleaning tables, fridge, empty bins, bring down bags of rubbish and boxes to another part of a large building. It takes at least one hour and more often than not, it's not done very well! There is no "deep cleaning".

At first i didn't think to question it, i just rolled up my sleeves and got stuck in. However, now i think it's unfair. We have more staff now the place gets dirty.

Can i/we refuse to clean and on what grounds? Do other organisations have to do their own cleaning?

Thanks

Why is it unfair? You have a job, your getting paid. The company is small. Cleaning companies are not cheap

Why exactly do you have a problem? If 10 people you do it maybe twice a month? That’s 2 hours a month for something that is not massively hard to do...

I did have to delete my original post as I would have got banned....haha

MarkR

If your contract says "other duties", and the work is being allocated fairly, then not much you can do, bar speak to your manager. Is it taking away from other duties? Do you have everything you need to do the taka safely?

listermint

'made to'



Or the thread title should have said paid to.


You can always move jobs if you don't like the current job you signed up for. Just a thought

SATSUMA

Why are people being so hostile? The company actually turns over well over a couple of million annually. The reason we clean is the boss is tight.

I didnt sign up to be a cleaner. My work load is huge and i dont have the hour to spend cleaning.

I was only asking for advice.

MarkR

SATSUMA wrote: »

Why are people being so hostile? The company actually turns over well over a couple of million annually. The reason we clean is the boss is tight.

I didnt sign up to be a cleaner. My work load is huge and i dont have the hour to spend cleaning.

I was only asking for advice.

I'd focus on the work load. Hiring a cleaner for an hour, vs how much your time may be worth.

daheff

i dont think its on op. what do your colleagues think?

if your job is X then thats what you are there for..... not hoovering.

how long are you there? is it feasible to move jobs?

Planina

If cleaning duties weren't part of the job you signed up to do, then the boss is taking advantage.
You would be in a strong position to approach your boss about this as long as your colleagues are in agreement with you. However, if some of them don't have an issue with it, it would be difficult to change anything about the situation.

maestroamado

I would take the approach that this is a highly inefficient way of doing business.
If i employed highly paid admin staff i certainly would not have them doing cleaning work as its a waste of a resource.
I think if you spin it in this fashion the idea may get legs.
Suggest bringing someone in say one time a week and the day to day stuff be minimal.
Refusing likely not a good option.

SATSUMA

daheff wrote: »

i dont think its on op. what do your colleagues think?

if your job is X then thats what you are there for..... not hoovering.

how long are you there? is it feasible to move jobs?

We all think it's unnecessary one of the main issues is the place isn't cleaned properly. Ive been there 18 months, it wouldnt make me leave by any means it wasnt too much of an issue until we got extra staff plus interns coming and going. Anyway i suppose the only thing to do is continue or express our concerns again.

Thanks

Shefwedfan

SATSUMA wrote: »

We all think it's unnecessary one of the main issues is the place isn't cleaned properly. Ive been there 18 months, it wouldnt make me leave by any means it wasnt too much of an issue until we got extra staff plus interns coming and going. Anyway i suppose the only thing to do is continue or express our concerns again.

Thanks

So you are complaining because of your own substandard work?

SATSUMA

maestroamado wrote: »

I would take the approach that this is a highly inefficient way of doing business.
If i employed highly paid admin staff i certainly would not have them doing cleaning work as its a waste of a resource.
I think if you spin it in this fashion the idea may get legs.
Suggest bringing someone in say one time a week and the day to day stuff be minimal.
Refusing likely not a good option.

Im not highly paid admin staff, im actually part of a profession that took me many many years of study. That is irrelevant, i still dont think any one in office should have to do it. Boss looked into getting cleaner one hour a week. Too expensive. As i said. Tight.

SATSUMA

Shefwedfan wrote: »

SATSUMA wrote: »

We all think it's unnecessary one of the main issues is the place isn't cleaned properly. Ive been there 18 months, it wouldnt make me leave by any means it wasnt too much of an issue until we got extra staff plus interns coming and going. Anyway i suppose the only thing to do is continue or express our concerns again.

Thanks

So you are complaining because of your own substandard work?

ABSOLUTELY!!!!! No denying it! 😂

Jim2007

SATSUMA wrote: »

Why are people being so hostile?

Did not get the response you wanted..... you asked for opinions and you got them, I don't see anything hostile in the responses, other than perhaps not the responses you expected.

SATSUMA wrote: »

The company actually turns over well over a couple of million annually. The reason we clean is the boss is tight.

It does not matter what the turn over is, you have no idea of what the bottom line is. Furthermore there is a lot of risk involved in running a business and people would not do it if there was not a good reward for doing so.

SATSUMA wrote: »

I didnt sign up to be a cleaner. My work load is huge and i dont have the hour to spend cleaning.

Well it would appear that the owner does not agree with you, they think paying you to do the cleaning is value for money, otherwise they'd hire cleaners.

In small companies workers do what needs to be done, otherwise the company would not survive. If you want working in place with lots of demarkation, then most likely you'll need to move on.

Shefwedfan

SATSUMA wrote: »

The company actually turns over well over a couple of million annually.

What are the company profits on those couple of millions?


Bringing in a couple of million is great but what if you are pushing back out a couple of million


Also how do you know it is a couple of million?

LazerShark

If it's not a part of the job description as advertised when you took the role, you are entitled to query it with your boss but as others have said, if your colleagues are ok with it you probably don't have a leg to stand on.

iamtony

Ah OP I've been in your position. I'm guessing your in your 20's and full of your own self importance:D
I had a stand off in my job over being asked to use a floor cleaning machine. I was way to good for that. I was told to do it or leave. A week later they called me to come back and they hired a cleaner part time.
Now I'm 36 and have copped on a feel like a fool thinking back. I would gladly clean the toilet bowls with a tooth brush once I was getting paid for it.
A company turning over a few million isn't hugh, it's a small to medium size business. My advise would be just get on with it and treat the cleaning like exercise. Do it to the best of your ability and be proud of the job you do. There is a feel good factor to doing a good job be it cleaning the toilet or designing parts for a space ship. Take pride in whatever you do and work hard and people will notice.
And the boss isn't tight, he's smart and you probably spend too much on your lunch and coffee:)

listermint

SATSUMA wrote: »

Why are people being so hostile? The company actually turns over well over a couple of million annually. The reason we clean is the boss is tight.

I didnt sign up to be a cleaner. My work load is huge and i dont have the hour to spend cleaning.

I was only asking for advice.

Not really hostile. If I took a job where cleaning was part of that role then that's the job. If I didn't want to take a job where this was a part of it I'd look elsewhere.

Yes the boss is probably trying to eliminate costs but you have not indicated he wasn't up front about it and has a rota.

So...

padd b1975

SATSUMA wrote: »

We all think it's unnecessary one of the main issues is the place isn't cleaned properly. Ive been there 18 months, it wouldnt make me leave by any means it wasnt too much of an issue until we got extra staff plus interns coming and going. Anyway i suppose the only thing to do is continue or express our concerns again.

Thanks

Shouldn't the extra staff mean that your turn to clean comes around less often?

Balanadan

I've worked in companies where people were expected to clean up and hoover. In some cases there were also cleaners that came in, but it was unacceptable for the place to be unclean so employees were expected to do the obvious. I've seen multi-millionaires hoovering at work.

I think you and your colleagues work can't be of much value to the company if your boss values it at minimum wage a couple of hours a month. Sounds like a very poor way to run a business. I would look for another job somewhere else.

HeidiHeidi

If between you all your cleaning isn't up to standard, maybe request a once off or occasional deep clean, and then tip along with the rota as is. That might be a more acceptable compromise than flat out refusing or resisting.

I know I wouldn't be happy working in an environment that wasn't properly clean and getting grubbier by the week. And there's no reason to expect highly otherly trained staff to be excellent part-time cleaners!

Shefwedfan

I think the OP is part of the new culture.

Not trying to sound too old but once I turned 12 I was out working. That was it, cash in hand jobs anywhere I could get. Painting for a summer, gopher on a building site very regular. Any holidays I was gone. Parents would never see me, working in Dublin on a site at 14 and living with some people, home at weekend.

I got the s**tist job you can imagine. Then again I was the gopher. Once I had done that and into college I was working every evening and all weekend to pay for myself. No hand outs......

This is all gone. Kids are walking out of college with a lot of them never having lifted a finger. Get a job and they think it is supposed to be like Suits....they all walking around drinking whiskey and cars waiting for them......

Also fo the Irish market a huge amount of them are unwilling to do what I would class as a days work. Do the minimum and think they are great, as the poster said "sure they are making millions!" with no idea or concept about profit or loss.....

Maybe it is time for Ireland to send our kids into the army for a year to gain some appreciation for the opportunities they are getting. Not complaining because they had to run a hoover over a floor for 10 mins

Shefwedfan

Just consider this. The New Zealand rugby team. Best rugby team in and World and full of super stars. Guys that are on millions each season

After every game, they tidy up and clean the changing rooms. The players. Not the staff. They leave it just as clean as they found it

Never heard a rugby player complain, also it says nothing in contract about cleaning the room

SATSUMA

Shefwedfan wrote: »

I think the OP is part of the new culture.

Not trying to sound too old but once I turned 12 I was out working. That was it, cash in hand jobs anywhere I could get. Painting for a summer, gopher on a building site very regular. Any holidays I was gone. Parents would never see me, working in Dublin on a site at 14 and living with some people, home at weekend.

I got the s**tist job you can imagine. Then again I was the gopher. Once I had done that and into college I was working every evening and all weekend to pay for myself. No hand outs......

This is all gone. Kids are walking out of college with a lot of them never having lifted a finger. Get a job and they think it is supposed to be like Suits....they all walking around drinking whiskey and cars waiting for them......

Also fo the Irish market a huge amount of them are unwilling to do what I would class as a days work. Do the minimum and think they are great, as the poster said "sure they are making millions!" with no idea or concept about profit or loss.....

Maybe it is time for Ireland to send our kids into the army for a year to gain some appreciation for the opportunities they are getting. Not complaining because they had to run a hoover over a floor for 10 mins

Im not a "kid" im in my late 30's. I too started work at a young age. My parents never had extra money. I also understand profit and loss very well. That's how im fully aware the company can hire a cleaner. Your post is based on assumptions. Those assumptions are incorrect.

SATSUMA

HeidiHeidi wrote: »

If between you all your cleaning isn't up to standard, maybe request a once off or occasional deep clean, and then tip along with the rota as is. That might be a more acceptable compromise than flat out refusing or resisting.

I know I wouldn't be happy working in an environment that wasn't properly clean and getting grubbier by the week. And there's no reason to expect highly otherly trained staff to be excellent part-time cleaners!

Sounds like a reasonable compromise, thanks

SATSUMA

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Just consider this. The New Zealand rugby team. Best rugby team in and World and full of super stars. Guys that are on millions each season

After every game, they tidy up and clean the changing rooms. The players. Not the staff. They leave it just as clean as they found it

Never heard a rugby player complain, also it says nothing in contract about cleaning the room

How do you know this? Your posts are not factually based.

Shefwedfan

SATSUMA wrote: »

Im not a "kid" im in my late 30's. I too started work at a young age. My parents never had extra money. I also understand profit and loss very well. That's how im fully aware the company can hire a cleaner. Your post is based on assumptions. Those assumptions are incorrect.

I bought one of these

https://www.gearbest.com/robot-vacuum/pp_440546.html?wid=1349303


Why not just buy one for the office, show a bit of initiative. It will go on every night at whatever time you want it and work all night.....

Shefwedfan

SATSUMA wrote: »

How do you know this? Your posts are not factually based.

It is a well known fact, google it. They have videos of Dan Carter cleaning up the changing rooms

Even Hartley(from NZ) got England team to do it
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/rugbyunion/article-4260218/Dylan-Hartley-forces-England-squad-clean-dressing-room.html


It's team building exercise

Wanderer2010

SATSUMA wrote: »

Why are people being so hostile? The company actually turns over well over a couple of million annually. The reason we clean is the boss is tight.

I didnt sign up to be a cleaner. My work load is huge and i dont have the hour to spend cleaning.

I was only asking for advice.

I actually agree with you. This issue really divides people. One camp sees no issue at all with rolling up your sleeves and emptying bins, cleaning tables and hoovering. Im not in this camp. If you are hired to do a job, one which requires a degree of qualifications, then you shouldn't be cleaning on top of this. That's what cleaners are for, to be blunt. If your boss is too tight to hire one or doesn't see an issue in workers downing tools to clean, you are up against a losing battle and you probably should look for another job.

If your contract says other duties as required, then they are covered. I know its not fair to have to move on but if its you against the office and you feel strongly about it you should look elsewhere. In this day and age, you shouldn't have to be going to college for 4 years to scrub floors.

Varta

Some of the replies here are mind-boggling. It's no wonder employers are getting away with expecting young people to work for free in so called internships. Yes, everyone should keep their own workspace tidy and clean - within reason. However, what your employer is demanding is simply not on.

Peatys

If your office is in a larger office building, could all tenant companies not chip in for a cleaner?

Shefwedfan

Mr.S wrote: »

What on earth are you going on about?! It sounds a bit deluded.

OP was hired to do a specific role, not a specific role + cleaning the office on a regular bases. How long it takes is irrelevant.

The employer is taking the piss if they expect staff to hoover the office, and OP's objection is completely valid.

@OP - strength in numbers. It will fall on deaf ears if it's just you complaining, get everyone to complain and suggest a part time professional cleaner comes in.

Sounds very much like strike talk above

The OP doesn't mention he/she has to do out of hours so they are been paid while doing this


They have to do twice a month, so that is a total of 24 hours per year. Which they are paid for.


personally I don't see the issue. If the place is a mess then maybe the staff between them decides to keep their own area clean and all the person has to clean is a smaller area? or buy a robot hoover which will do the floors at night


I know our office, it is fairly simple rule. Keep your desk area clean. No papers left on it. No eating at desk, wipes left at locations so if finished at desk then just wipe it down


It is basic manners. Are we saying now people are allowed to be dirty pigs at their desk because its ok, someone else can clean it up


P.S we have a cleaner in our office, but basic manners are basic manners

Wanderer78

Shefwedfan wrote:

Why not just buy one for the office, show a bit of initiative. It will go on every night at whatever time you want it and work all night.....

Ta hell with that, spend your own money cleaning someone else's offices, a bit of initiative! Its time this business just forked out the money for regular cleaners

Varta

There must be a lot of employers replying here. "other duties as required" is not a blank page for an employer.

Shefwedfan

Varta wrote: »

Some of the replies here are mind-boggling. It's no wonder employers are getting away with expecting young people to work for free in so called internships. Yes, everyone should keep their own workspace tidy and clean - within reason. However, what your employer is demanding is simply not on.

The OP is getting paid. So not sure why you are tlaking about doing it for free

Shefwedfan

Wanderer78 wrote: »

Ta hell with that, spend your own money cleaning someone else's offices, a bit of initiative! Its time this business just forked out the money for regular cleaners

Sorry I meant bring the idea to his bosses, they can buy it under company account get VAT etc off....


Go to company with ideas....they will probably be grateful

Varta

Shefwedfan wrote: »

The OP is getting paid. So not sure why you are tlaking about doing it for free

I wasn't. I was talking about employers expecting interns to work for free. The OP is being paid to do his/her job... not somebody else's.

Wanderer78

Shefwedfan wrote:

Go to company with ideas....they will probably be grateful

I have a funny feeling these kind of ideas would simply be ignored, maybe worth a try though, it sounds like this company has little or no interest in cleaning or its employees for that matter

Bullocks

OP did you chat to the rest of your colleagues about the cleaning? If ye all felt the same and went together to the boss and told them that ye all refuse to clean I'd imagine they would have to get in a cleaner.
But I think a bit of cleaning no matter where you rank at work is a good thing to keep us "thinking tidy". No need to be deep cleaning but keep our work areas clean and clear of anything.
I'm working in the buildings and notice over the last few years that a lot of tradesmen leave everything where it falls. It drives me mad.

Shefwedfan

Varta wrote: »

I wasn't. I was talking about employers expecting interns to work for free. The OP is being paid to do his/her job... not somebody else's.

This intern for free seems to be a bit of a myth to be honest


We have a number of intern and grads in our company. All paid. At least 2 positions open now and cannot get a single person for them.



Even full paying roles open in company for months and nobody. These are not crappy wages either

At the moment when companies can't actually find employees and the unemployment is down really low, who exactly is working for free as an intern?

Who makes the office unclean? Why can't they clean it? It's not as if they are cleaning toilets.

*Newsflash* Very few workers are constantly working to task.

Ubiquitous internet pretty much guarantees this.

I'm pretty sure an employer smart enough to have a multi million t/o business realises that a fully occupied employee would be less productive than using a cleaner for an hour or two.

Employees have a lot of rights/power and this employer seems to be using the tools at their disposal to get the max out of their employees.

The OP may be a rare wonder and working 100% capacity, but clearly not everyone in the office is and the employer needs to not be seen as too selective.

Basically, I doubt the employer is the issue here.

splinter65

SATSUMA wrote: »

Im not highly paid admin staff, im actually part of a profession that took me many many years of study. That is irrelevant, i still dont think any one in office should have to do it. Boss looked into getting cleaner one hour a week. Too expensive. As i said. Tight.

I think OP that youre asking if any employment law/health and safety issue is being broken by your employer insisting that the staff double as domestic cleaners.
As long as he/she’s covered by a fairly vague contract then the answer is no.
I wouldn’t see myself staying too long in a place where a cleaner is within the budget but the employer chooses to decline.

Wanderer78

Deleted User wrote:

The OP may be a rare wonder and working 100% capacity, but clearly not everyone in the office is and the employer needs to not be seen as too selective.

Deleted User wrote:

Basically, I doubt the employer is the issue here.

There's plenty of evidence to support, we re potentially more productive now than we ever have, but wage inflation has remained low for many, something is actually wrong for many workers, are employers to blame, partially I'd say, this is a fairly common problem, globally

Hedgelayer

I work in a similar capacity and there's always one being the social justice warrior and making things difficult for management.

Our own manager shares the cleaning rota and she's quite small and not very strong.

On Monday its my turn to clean up and the polytunnel floor and potting shed, I always look forward to it.

When I studied horticulture our lecturer said that you could end up having to clean a kitchen area in horticulture, I was horrified.

I thought id and up being ireland's answer to Alan Titchmarsh lol
Actually he's often down on his knees up to his elbows in dirt.
All part of the job...

Elessar

iamtony wrote: »

Ah OP I've been in your position. I'm guessing your in your 20's and full of your own self importance:D
I had a stand off in my job over being asked to use a floor cleaning machine. I was way to good for that. I was told to do it or leave. A week later they called me to come back and they hired a cleaner part time.
Now I'm 36 and have copped on a feel like a fool thinking back. I would gladly clean the toilet bowls with a tooth brush once I was getting paid for it.
A company turning over a few million isn't hugh, it's a small to medium size business. My advise would be just get on with it and treat the cleaning like exercise. Do it to the best of your ability and be proud of the job you do. There is a feel good factor to doing a good job be it cleaning the toilet or designing parts for a space ship. Take pride in whatever you do and work hard and people will notice.
And the boss isn't tight, he's smart and you probably spend too much on your lunch and coffee:)

Sorry but this is one of the most pathetic posts I've ever read here. Do you shine your bosses shoes aswell if he asks? Maybe wash his car?

There's great work ethic and then there's being a doormat.

I work in IT and am (relatively) well paid. If my employer can afford to hire me (and lots of other high earning staff), they can afford cleaners.

If I was told to start cleaning the place, I know what I would be telling them. Sure, most contracts have "other duties" stipulated, but they must be reasonable. Now, I'll keep my own desk and close area clean, as I've been raised to do. Kitchen aswell after I use it.

But I sure as hell won't be cleaning anything else. I didn't sign the dotted line to be a cleaner, and it they didn't like it, I wouldn't be long looking for another job that actually treats me with a bit of respect. I would hope most other people would be the same, including you OP.

Wanderer78

Wanderer78 wrote: »

I have a funny feeling these kind of ideas would simply be ignored, maybe worth a try though, it sounds like this company has little or no interest in cleaning or its employees for that matter

Is the company not paying its employees? Must have missed that part.
Would the employees fair better without the company and not getting any pay you think?

Wildly Boaring

OP how about the opposite approach.

On your rota week do a great job cleaning.

Do every surface, the fridge, the toilets, the windows, down behind the rads.....the lot.
No fuss or telling people what you're up to.

Your office has now had a deep clean.
You've done a proper job you can be proud of.
The next few rotas much easier.

Your boss can decide if he wants a highly paid professional spending their whole day on cleaning duties.

Stoner

First of all it sounds fair. That's important. Everyone does it .

I'd also look at the real value to the business, nothing about how much a cleaner costs versus someone else, but possibly the ethos of the place.

Yes it could be just a tight boss, but it could also be greater than that, possibly how it sounds to clients or the market, how hard-working and hungry the business is.

Once one person refuses the whole thing goes to hell. So getting a cleaner is a solution.

If the bosses reaction is "what next, a tea lady ?" then that will tell it's own story.

AulWan

I'm in my fifties, have worked in admin roles in various offices since I was 17 and have never been asked to clean an office.

I don't believe your boss' claim that he has looked into it either, as a cleaner for two hours costs less then €50 per week - I have one at home! (Hired and paid through an agency).

Unless it was specifically part of your contract and you were advised before taking the job that regular office cleaning was part of your duties, then yes, I would refuse to do it.

I'd organise a cleaner and present the boss with the bill.

Charles Ingles

Great idea for team building and staff morale.
Once it's rotated and everybody takes their turn a bit of light cleaning isn't much for your employer to ask for.