Energy infrastructure

bk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119998408#Comment_119998408

Your article is based on Eurostat data for second half 2021. My data was based on more update data from first half of 2022 from the same source Eurostat source.

Data from first half 2022:

EU Average: 0.2525

Euro Area average: 0.2608

Ireland: 0.2741

Ireland is about 10% more expensive then the EU average, that seems pretty reasonable to me when you consider we are a small Island and completely disconnected from the EU grid.

serfboard

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120004782#Comment_120004782

It takes so long to build anything here because there are so many opportunities to challenge the process legally.

And there are so many opportunities because every legal challenge means large fees for the legal profession.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120004828#Comment_120004828

I don't know, I think there's no more or less avenues to appeal here than in other jurisdictions

The key difference is resourcing

We don't staff our planning depts adequately so it takes ages to get planning applications decided

Not only did we not staff ABP adequately, we introduced the SHD process which skipped the local govt planning process and loaded all that work onto an overburdened agency. Then we all act surprised when the only avenue left open, the courts, is used by anyone who wants to object.

Then the courts, when they begged and begged for 15 new judges had to finally resort to cancelling the hearings for major high profile cases to embarrass the govt into appointing new judges. the govt gave them 5 instead of the 15 they were crying out for.

It should be possible to complete everything within 12-18 months if depts and agencies are staffed properly

No amount of legislative changes will ever make up for staffing shortfalls

Markcheese

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120004782#Comment_120004782

Have they any more right to a wave than anyone one else ?

Plus it'd be some wall of turbines that'd change the wave patterns, plus ideally you want the wind coming off the beach

cnocbui

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120004673#Comment_120004673

Solar is uneconomical, hence the massive subsidies required to get any commercial scale built here. We need power 24/7 and solar at this time of year leaves a gaping 20hr gap to plug on a brilliant day of sunshine.

Interconnectors are of limited benefit when it comes to renewables - more or less quoting Dr Connolly verbatim: https://youtu.be/Xwxc31zhL8Y?t=452

We don't have the geography for pumped hydro and it's very environmentally bad in terms of habitat destruction. Compared to the scale of what's needed it's meaningless, so it's as much of a solution as me standing in front of a wind turbine and blowing at it. Just ask the ESB, if you don't believe me:

That little black dot is Turlough Hill - so you can forget about pumped storage.

Hydrogen is pie in the sky nonsense, so expensive that not a single country has done it.

Now AFAIK, the only viable commercial geothermal power staions of any note are in geothermally active places like NZ and Iceland. So how many geothermal power stations does a technologically advanced country like Germany currently have and how many GW are they generating using this?

Capt'n Midnight

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120004602#Comment_120004602

Minimum demand is about 3GW, today's wind was averaging about half that. And the plan is to add multiples of what we have already.

The grid will soon be able to handle up to 95% of wind, solar, battery, interconnectors and others leaving just 5% of constant base load a lot of which will come from hydro and co-generation and incinerators and biomass. The rest would be renewables and plant that can produce on demand.

We will soon have 2.2GW of interconnectors. Solar target for 2030 is 5GW. Did I mention there'll be lots more wind too.

Northern Ireland had been getting just over 49% of electricity from renewables, and that's without offshore wind. And a shed load of solar would also help.

Birdnuts

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120004782#Comment_120004782

I think you'll find the issues with current planned offshore developments r rather more complicated then that. Sleepy Eamon and the other wind developer cheerleaders in government failed to but in the required MPA's to protect Marine Life ahead of their developer led restructure of Marine Planning. So any delays here will be down to the usual state led incompetence in this space.

Birdnuts

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120005389#Comment_120005389

Indeed - same crowd pumping out waffle about batteries, offshore wind etc. for the past 10 years and yet nowhere in Europe has come anywhere close to matching the pie in the sky nonsense about running a modern affordable grid on such a basis

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120007711#Comment_120007711

MPA's announced

https://www.gov.ie/en/publication/2fd71-general-scheme-of-marine-protected-areas-bill-2022/

serfboard

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120007719#Comment_120007719

And why do you think that is?

roadmaster

The state are running adds at the moment on the radio about energy useage such as if the wind is blowing its a good time to use your appliances.

Does the people behind this idea actually understand how the majority of people are billed with day and night rates. It is a very misleading add

josip

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120013490#Comment_120013490

It would make you despair hearing those ads. Either we're all fierce thick or the people commissioning the ads are.

"Oh, the winds not blowing, I'll sit here with a wet head and wait until tomorrow to dry my hair."

roadmaster

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120013576#Comment_120013576

I wouldnt mind if such a rate did exist that at 11 am because wind power was high and you get a cheaper rate i would certainly run dishwashers and dryers etc

Ben D Bus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120013865#Comment_120013865

Once smart meters are everywhere I'd really hope there will be a peak rate for everyone in order to encourage people to minimise use during peak hours. I'm fortunate enough that I can, for example, do laundry whenever suits, but most households could surely avoid it between 5pm and 7pm.

Similarly, issuing notifications with price reductions when there's a surplus of renewables might get people to consider running whatever appliances that aren't time dependent.

It won't entirely solve the issue of intermittency, or peak demand but it will help a bit. And could also help change mindsets.

bk

The big opportunity will be to combine smart meters and tarrifs with EV's. You arrive home from work, plug in your EV, but it doesn't start charging immediately (5 to 7 being a peak time), instead it turns on and off the charging throughout the night, ensuring you have a full charge by the morning, but charging at the lowest cost to you (and thus benefit to the grid).

I could also see folks starting to install home battery systems. Fill up when cheap, use it for yourself at peak times. Sounds odd, but will probably start with people who add battery systems to their solar panels. Obviously they will fill the battery from the solar panels when excess is available, but could also fill it from the grid at cheap rates in the winter months.

Perhaps in future we will see smart washing machines and dishwashers. Imagine one of these with a green button on it, load the machine and press the green button, the machine will then only start sometime in the night when it figures out it will cost the least.

I could also see smart fridges timing their cooling cycles to match with cheaper times/rates.

Of course no one is gonig to sit there in the dark and cold, and if you need to just do the dishes right now, nothing stopping you from doing that. But if you can make it as easy and convenient as possible for people to save money, I'm sure many would be happy to do so.

cnocbui

The low overnight rate is because demand is low. If you have a lot of EVs trying to charge at night, it's likely there won't be a cheap night rate, because demand will be significant.

bk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120015218#Comment_120015218

Which will make the ESB, etc. very happy. EV's being a solution to a problem they have at the moment when there is unused capacity.

Eventually we will move away from the blunt tool of night rate, to different rates throughout the day based on demand and various smart devices like I describe above responding to make the most of cheap rates. For example we could see EV's charging during midday on a bright sunny summer day when the grid is flooded by cheap solar power or a particularly windy afternoon.

BTW Also EV's don't have to charge every night. The average daily commute distance is 40km per day, but modern EV's often have 300 to 400km batteries. You could easily see EV's only charging every couple of days as needed, avoiding particularly low wind days or even charging up ahead of a predicted low wind period.

ED E

Are demand side unit emissions included in the SEAI's figures for the increase? Lots of diesel being consumed this quarter under load shedding operations.

roadmaster

Who ever commisoned the add really needs a kick in the ass

MightyMunster

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120013576#Comment_120013576

I think the suggestion is don't have an electric shower and dry your hair between 5-7pm. Maybe have it later on instead

Apogee

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120014180#Comment_120014180

The Eirgrid rep on the recent "10 things to know" show mentioned that one of the secondary benefits of the Celtic Interconnector to France was the +1 hour difference, which would facilitate management of peak demand at either end.

(He also mentioned that the cable will use aluminium rather than copper.)

MightyMunster

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120015960#Comment_120015960

Didn't think of the time difference, interesting. Maybe if the EU move to BST and UK don't we could have a time difference there too 🤔

josip

Layman's question. Is there a limit to the maximum Wind Generation and is that limit the System Demand or the System Demand plus the capacity of the 2 interconnectors?

At the moment, we're exporting 751MW over the interconnectors.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120020472#Comment_120020472

75% is the max at the moment, soon to be 95%

josip

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120020476#Comment_120020476

So of the 3918 being generated, 751 is being exported leaving 3167 which is 76% of 4159 demand. Ok got it thanks.

On what does the 95% depend? Is there a big flywheel in the plans or is it lots of smaller improvements?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120020483#Comment_120020483

Yup, flywheel

https://www.en-former.com/en/mammoth-flywheel-for-irelands-grid-stability/

tom1ie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120015960#Comment_120015960

Why would an aluminium cable be used instead of copper when copper has a higher CCC therefore having higher capacity?

I know aluminium is cheaper but surely higher CCC is the goal here?

josip

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120020487#Comment_120020487

I see that at the start of November it was in the "final stages of grid-code testing", whatever that means :). When is it expected to be fully operational?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120020908#Comment_120020908

I haven't seen any date mentioned but its not far away

cnocbui

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120020775#Comment_120020775

The very high cost of copper vs aluminium. Those HT power lines you see criss crossing whole countries are all aluminium as are probably most others of smaller diameter. Copper costs $8,301 a ton vs aluminium at $2,390. Silver has the least resistance of all, so that isn't used either, except for some far smaller applications like electronics and audio.

If you want to conduct heat or electricity or reflect light, silver is the metal of choice, being better than anything else.