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Vegans are WEAK !!!!!!!!!

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  • Registered Users Posts: 4,497 ✭✭✭auspicious


    auspicious wrote: »
    I said it before and I'll say it again. Rogan is a bull**** artist.

    Meat eating anti-vegan Rogan takes more supplements than vegans do.

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=EDVo71q0TgE


  • Registered Users Posts: 946 ✭✭✭KSU


    auspicious wrote: »
    Meat eating anti-vegan Rogan takes more supplements than vegans do.

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=EDVo71q0TgE

    This is a complete straw man. He is criticizing Rogan for supplementing and following it up with the fact he supplements himself "just because"

    Kresser makes some very valid points about the pitfalls of veganism, that is not to say poor meat eating diet doesn't have their own pitfalls but you can't discredit valid points with comparing 2 without context like fitness demands (how much does this person engage in high intensity sports, alcohol consumption etc.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,497 ✭✭✭auspicious


    Rogan has always banged on about the 'inadequate' vegan diet. He has said vegans "need a **** tonne of supplements" to be healthy. This implies he believes a diet including meat does not require these supplements.
    Yet advocating a meat based diet ( a heavy meat based diet in his case ) he does actually take the same supplements and more. Therefore his argument is hypocritical.
    Plus he wouldn't need to take testosterone injections if he went vegan. Vegan men tend to have more.


  • Registered Users Posts: 946 ✭✭✭KSU


    auspicious wrote: »
    Rogan has always banged on about the 'inadequate' vegan diet. He has said vegans "need a **** tonne of supplements" to be healthy. This implies he believes a diet including meat does not require these supplements.
    Yet advocating a meat based diet ( a heavy meat based diet in his case ) he does actually take the same supplements and more. Therefore his argument is hypocritical.
    Plus he wouldn't need to take testosterone injections if he went vegan. Vegan men tend to have more.

    Vitamin B12 metabolism in athletes differs greatly to sedentary people and can be harder to detect hence why many supplement as a precaution (much like the YT'er here)

    Rogan often has beer and other vices he is not claiming to have the perfect diet or lifestyle (imagine sleep is compromised) however he aims to in his own words put his body and mind in best place possible with his diet. That doesn't mean it's the perfect template but precautionary and prescribed due to deficiency are completelely different*

    (* FWIW I am not saying this is the right approach as I don't believe in precautionary supplementation)

    The point which seems to be lost is that many meat eaters whether knowingly or not have better comprehension of well rounded diet (whether they follow or not)

    As most people "convert" to Veganism they are starting at a disadvantage knowledge wise this is the key point with relation to Kressers comments. If you remove such a big part of people's diets and micronutrient source you need to have a higher standard of knowledge to address this.
    Plus he wouldn't need to take testosterone injections if he went vegan. Vegan men tend to have more.

    Any basis to this claim?


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,497 ✭✭✭auspicious


    KSU wrote: »
    Vitamin B12 metabolism in athletes differs greatly to sedentary people and can be harder to detect hence why many supplement as a precaution (much like the YT'er here)

    Also it is recommended that people over 50 years of age should supplement b12 as aging can compromise it's metabolism.

    The point is this: to diss veganism as needing supplements while advocating meat but taking supplements as a precaution makes little sense.

    And to say most vegan newbies start at a disadvantage is a correct. Anyone starting anything new in the vast majority of cases knows less than someone experienced.
    The info. is here on the web and only sheer laziness can hinder it's absorption.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 975 ✭✭✭decky1


    A friend of mine worked on the oil rigs in Australia some years ago [very heavy work he said] this day 2 vegan's arrived big guys well built seemed to be guys that worked out, but that's where it ended while the regular guys were eating steak etc, the 2 vegans were busy eating their leaves etc, they lasted a week , a special helicopter had to be sent out for them , he said he thought they would be dead before the helicopter got there they were in such a bad state,they should have been eating proper food for that type of work,, they were just Weak.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,506 ✭✭✭Interslice


    Alot of these vegan athletes are already at the top of their game when they switch, have a full time nutritionist, loads of money, high levels of self discipline, time to source food and may even have sports based chefs cooking for them.

    All this name dropping vegan athletes craic doesn't prove much more than , at best, there is some performance benefits to switching vegan in your 20's if you can do it to a high standard.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,497 ✭✭✭auspicious


    decky1 wrote: »
    A friend of mine worked on the oil rigs in Australia some years ago [very heavy work he said] this day 2 vegan's arrived big guys well built seemed to be guys that worked out, but that's where it ended while the regular guys were eating steak etc, the 2 vegans were busy eating their leaves etc, they lasted a week , a special helicopter had to be sent out for them ,.

    Lol great story. Genuinely. Sound like a pair of wusses to me. I hope they were charged for the chopper.
    They may not have been used to such heavy work.
    Vegans can have lower fat stores for the body to source energy from if needed and if the lads were not eating enough protein to convert to energy they were probably hitting a wall. Perhaps they were not eating enough full stop. Constant heavy lifting may require double normal calories or more.

    Interslice wrote: »
    Alot of these vegan athletes are already at the top of their game when they switch,

    The first two examples on this thread were childhood vegans. Also Fiona Oaks, whom admits had no trainers nor nutritionist, nor money.


  • Registered Users Posts: 946 ✭✭✭KSU


    auspicious wrote: »
    All of Fiona's amazing achievements and feats of endurance were done not for monetary gain or personal ambition but to highlight veganism and it's core message of unnecessary animal suffering.
    Wthout a great deal of knowledge or professional support she stood toe to toe with the best runners in the world in the most difficult races on the planet and time and time again she proved, with the utmost selfless determination found through her compassion for exploited animals, she was their equal and often more. All on a plant-based diet.
    In the Marathon des Sables Fiona displayed more compassion when she gave up a possible 5th place or better, and commanding lead over the the rest of the field to support a fellow runner debilitated by leukaemia, striving to achieve his own goal, when no-one else would.

    The recognition of her exploits was not forthcoming as the media wanted nothing to do with her vegan standard. Rather than deterr her, she put her chin up and went harder.

    auspicious wrote: »
    Also Fiona Oaks, whom admits had no trainers nor nutritionist, nor money.

    I am not surprised, she is not elite. She didn't finish in top 100 in any race this year. She has never ranked in top 15 in Britain at any distance throughout her carerer

    People tend to be unaware but thes niche Guiness book of record exploits are publicity stunts which is fine if people want to raise awareness as these things tend to appeal to the public as puff pieces in papers but they often get confused with athletic performances.

    The Marathon on every continent record similarly is one seen as a marketing investment as entry is 35,000e per competitor so entry barrier means that majority of people who do it own some form of World Record (1st Blind Athlete, 1st (Insert Nationality) athlete to compete etc)

    The 1.32 dressed as a cow while a WR is sub National level never mind Elite. To give you an example of a Male equivalent Paul Marteletti has WR for marathon dressed as Spiderman which stands at 2.25 vs his 2.16 PB. This time while impressive is still 5 min off making the GB team Qualifier for next year's Olympics and realistically nearly 8 min slower than those he would be fighting for a spot on said team.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,497 ✭✭✭auspicious


    I'm not exactly sure what you're trying to say. Some of your posts can be vague.
    Fiona wasn't chasing a career. She was running to highlight the fact meat isn't needed. She had no money because she had 500 odd rescue animals to look after.
    She's 50 years old now with no kneecap; maybe she didn't finish in the top 100 as she picks her battles idk.
    But she was vegan from six years old if I recall correctly.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 946 ✭✭✭KSU


    auspicious wrote: »
    I'm not exactly sure what you're trying to say. Some of your posts can be vague.
    Fiona wasn't chasing a career. She was running to highlight the fact meat isn't needed. She had no money because she had 500 odd rescue animals to look after.
    She's 50 years old now with no kneecap; maybe she didn't finish in the top 100 as she picks her battles idk.
    But she was vegan from six years old if I recall correctly.

    I only questioned why she keeps getting referenced in same breath as athletes at the top of their fields as a counter point to Interslice when he refers to the fact that many top professionals have proper support network which makes these sort of diets not a great example to the average athlete.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,497 ✭✭✭auspicious


    I hear you. At the top of their game and at the top of their field are two different meanings. But I won't bore us all and be pedantic with semantics.
    Plus interslice said "a lot". That's right. I would
    estimate 98 or 99 percent of athletes are/were on the average diet, so it's rare to find vegan-since-birth/childhood elites. It doesn't at all mean it can't be done and with the rise of veganism I'm sure some of the next generation will reach sport pinnacles.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,497 ✭✭✭auspicious


    -In fact, our study showed that submaximal endurance might be better in vegans compared with omnivores-
    ( -38% better )

    In general, there were few differences between the groups, though the vegans actually scored slightly higher on VO2 max, a measure of cardiovascular performance, as well as cycle endurance.

    -This suggests that following a vegan diet for long term (≥2 years) may be adequately supportive to maintain muscle strength and could even be more effective for endurance performance-

    https://www.nature.com/articles/s41430-020-0639-y


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,497 ✭✭✭auspicious




  • Registered Users Posts: 4,497 ✭✭✭auspicious


    auspicious wrote: »
    Irish weightlifter explains a day of eating; total calories 3000 and protein 238g.

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=F5fsqg6aJOI

    This is an older video of his with more nutritional tips.

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=hHrysja5lYw

    Bump.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,316 ✭✭✭nthclare


    I've no problems with vegan's, but it's that jaundice sickly look that's really worrying looking and a friend of mine went from being a meat eater to a vegan and he's no longer an alpha male but more gentle and almost femminine.

    Maybe it just happened to him, but that jaundice yellow look doesn't look healthy.

    I before the lockdown used to have a vegan dinner in Ennis and admittedly I feel good afterwards, great food and not stodgy or feels heavy.

    So I can see the benefits too.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,497 ✭✭✭auspicious


    nthclare wrote: »
    I've no problems with vegan's, but it's that jaundice sickly look that's really worrying looking and a friend of mine went from being a meat eater to a vegan and he's no longer an alpha male but more gentle and almost femminine.

    Maybe it just happened to him, but that jaundice yellow look doesn't look healthy.

    I before the lockdown used to have a vegan dinner in Ennis and admittedly I feel good afterwards, great food and not stodgy or feels heavy.

    So I can see the benefits too.

    It's all about the balanced diet. Eat enough of a balanced whole foods vegan diet and there are no problems. The information is everywhere these days.


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,676 ✭✭✭Worztron


    auspicious wrote: »
    -In fact, our study showed that submaximal endurance might be better in vegans compared with omnivores-
    ( -38% better )

    In general, there were few differences between the groups, though the vegans actually scored slightly higher on VO2 max, a measure of cardiovascular performance, as well as cycle endurance.

    -This suggests that following a vegan diet for long term (≥2 years) may be adequately supportive to maintain muscle strength and could even be more effective for endurance performance-

    https://www.nature.com/articles/s41430-020-0639-y

    Mic the Vegan recently covered that same article. :-)

    Mitch Hedberg: "Rice is great if you're really hungry and want to eat two thousand of something."



  • Registered Users Posts: 946 ✭✭✭KSU


    Worztron wrote: »
    Mic the Vegan recently covered that same article. :-)


    Few things to note on this

    - Despite what is claimed that formula for calculating Vo2max based off power vs bodyweight is hugely inaccurate, it is the measurement formula which Garmin use in there watches and it varies wildly because it ignores variables that influence power function

    - He actually addresses the answer with reference to carb intake. Any endurance athlete who knows a thing in relation to Vo2 max and nutrition will tell you that carb intake can have a huge impact on Vo2 max function. He also references Scott Jurek in same breath which shows he doesn't take into consideration other aspects of diet such as HFLC which can have an impact and research shows that this can actually negatively affect submaximal efforts vs more traditional high carb athlete diets.

    High carb athletes will perform better at Vo2 max intensity efforts. Generally well trained fat adapted athletes will perform better in terms of efforts of endurance. Vegan diets generally tend to gravitate to either side of this generally as tendency is to be lower protein consumption in general.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,497 ✭✭✭auspicious


    Here's an easy go to prep meal. Insanely cheap and nutritious.
    (I'd add some spices to spice it up, eat some high vitamin c fruit like kiwi to increase iron absorption and steep kale for a while rather than wash it.)

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=30sam61f7cQ


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  • Registered Users Posts: 8,676 ✭✭✭Worztron


    Hench Herbivore aka Paul Kerton is in great shape. The guys is not far off 50 yo.

    https://yewtu.be/channel/UC2ZWX3GJfAIeRFWN91t09ww

    Mitch Hedberg: "Rice is great if you're really hungry and want to eat two thousand of something."



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