"Non book readers" - Season 8 Episode 4 "The Last of the S" - Spoilers post 2 fo

Nody

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PTH2009

Few moments wow but meh for the first hour or so

Next 2 week better be the business

J. Marston

Weakest episode of the season for me. Brienne blubbering over Jaime was silly, she is a stronger character than that. Jon giving away Ghost was also stupid.

I thought Emilia Clarke was excellent though, that might be her best episode and she was the highlight of the episode by a distance. It makes me wish we had more time with Dany as desperate and succumbing to that Targaryen temper.

PTH2009

PTH2009 wrote: »

Few moments wow but meh for the first hour or so

Next 2 week better be the business

Yeah.. very poor for the most part.. last half an hour was good though..
Seems all they can do is the banter scenes, and the sweet-valley-high-esque "ooh, who fancies who.."
Really is a shame how bad the writing has gotten..

You'd think the wildlings and the northerners would have given a hand with Kings landing after they all helped with the night king..

ardinn

I thought that was really good - great to see the diplomatic end of things actually used again in relation to the throne instead of combat tactics and build up scenes.

We see blondies true desperation for power, cerseis superior tactical awareness, and some great personal developments.

Those who are only here for the shock and awe will moan however, but that was pure GOT

shrewdness

Wasn't expecting much action in this one after last week, more recovering from the battle and the politics of setting things up for Kings Landing, which they did aswell. So Rhaegal dropping out of the sky really took me off guard.

Dany at the end looking like she's going to go all Mad Queen and burn Kings Landing to the ground. If she can avoid Drogon getting killed too that is.

nix

It's starting to feel like im watching Wrestlemania or something at this stage, the story progression is just so unnatural and rushed.

There were some decent conversations this time around, but the ones that we have been waiting seasons upon seasons to see, have just been skipped over.

When Jon gathers all the Starks and decides to tell them the secret, I'm like "oh boy here we go" and he just nods at Bran and tells him to tell them.. And whats worse, its just bloody cuts to black/next scene... :eek:

It's like they dont want these actors to act or something, thinking back, the only real/decent exchange was between Tyrion and Verys in dragonstone. Everything else was just rushed or thrown together :rolleyes:

I always knew Greyworm and Missandei wouldnt have a happy ending, i said it to a friend last week, one of the final scenes in the last episode will be Greyworm burying Missandei on her home islands or vice versa. But the progression of it was so underwhelming

sdanseo

You can see how rushed this all was. Things happening in months are taking minutes to depict as opposed to earlier seasons.

There was easily enough material to run this out over a full length Season 7 and 8 and take the time to depict more of the schemery, politics and development a bit better.
Jamie changing his allegiance yet again is just plain dull. Euron's fleet scoring three direct hits on a Rhaegar is equally absurd. Not sure Sansa the character we've known would have sworn to John's secret and blabbed immediately. That's something that should have played out over a few episodes... she didn't even agonise over it.
Varys changing sides so rapidly is equally uncharacteristic for such a patient patriot.

All the above said, overall bar accidentally reading a spoiler about Missandei I still enjoyed it.

youreadthat

Just watching it for the sake of it now. Gone downhill since they decided to rush to the end and to a lesser extent when they ran out of book.

youreadthat

youreadthat wrote: »

Just watching it for the sake of it now.

This..

Roger Hassenforder

youreadthat wrote: »

Just watching it for the sake of it now. Gone downhill since they decided to rush to the end and to a lesser extent when they ran out of book.

Not this

Ardillaun

Agree with the concerns above. Success can really screw with a series. It’s a Lord of the Rings with naughty bits now.

Regarding Dinklage’s decidedly strange posh English accent, like Sean Connery in so many roles (Red October comes to mind) his performance carries the day.

J. Marston

Gilly, fúcking Gilly, gets a goodbye hug from Jon and all Ghost, who is injured and missing a fúcking ear, gets is a sad look from across the courtyard? He guarded your dead body, you ingrate!

swarmberg

Quality is dipping every episode. Don't know why they couldn't have just went with 10 one hour episodes to help with the pacing a bit.

Ardillaun

I’d have made the direwolves as big as horses.

Ardillaun

Varys had a very Trekkie outfit tonight.

golfball37

Best episode this season by a mile for me. A return to some of the traits that made show what it is. Interaction and scheming. I loved it.

Enzokk

I don't know what people want anymore. 80 minutes of action, bring back the intrigue. 75 minutes of intrigue, this sucks and I want...I don't know what people want. I thought The Walking Dead got a little silly, I stopped watching. The show didn't miss me as a viewer and my life is better instead of spending my time posting about something that I don't like.

J. Marston wrote: »

Jon giving away Ghost was also stupid.

It's almost like he is giving up his Northern heritage and leaving it behind?:cool: About to become the man he is born to be?:eek: Also it costs a lot to render the direwolves and make them look realistic. Blame that on technology. People prefer dragons over wolves.

sdanseo wrote: »

You can see how rushed this all was. Things happening in months are taking minutes to depict as opposed to earlier seasons.

There was easily enough material to run this out over a full length Season 7 and 8 and take the time to depict more of the schemery, politics and development a bit better.
Jamie changing his allegiance yet again is just plain dull. Euron's fleet scoring three direct hits on a Rhaegar is equally absurd. Not sure Sansa the character we've known would have sworn to John's secret and blabbed immediately. That's something that should have played out over a few episodes... she didn't even agonise over it.
Varys changing sides so rapidly is equally uncharacteristic for such a patient patriot.

All the above said, overall bar accidentally reading a spoiler about Missandei I still enjoyed it.

Travel time has always been strange in the show. Without getting a date and time stamp you have to assume time has passed. Now we would all have liked to have more filler (okay, maybe not everyone as the complaints about filler episodes is enough already) but there just isn't enough story or money for that. Remember that Catelyn Stark went from Winterfell to King's Landing in between episodes in season 1. That is supposed to take time, especially if you aren't going by the King's road apparently. Everyone was okay with time travel then, but it is a problem now because there is nothing to fit in between these scenes and there is no books for readers to fill in the details of what happened on the trip.

On the money, it costs a lot of money for them to contract the actors to a season and the longer it goes the more they need to be paid. So while we may see the budgets go up some of that is to the actors being paid more. Also, you could have had more seasons if you cut some effects or extras, but then you would have a case where Vaes Dothrak looks like the entrance to a farm more than a city.

Nice episode though, I enjoyed it and it sets up the last 2 very nicely. They have planted the seeds of either Tyrion or Jaime killing Cersei and of Cleganebowl. Expect neither of those things to happen and people to complain either way.

razorblunt

Who the fcuk preferes dragons over direwolves?

Direwolves all day for me, give Ghost a rub and a biscuit FFS!

Essien

I enjoyed it.

It's hard to predict who ends up on the throne now that Cersei appears to have the upper hand, Jon and Dany could go either way and Gendry being legitimized will surely have some repercussions.

Varys was the highlight of the episode for me. His scheming will definitely throw a cat amongst the pigeons.

The only thing I'll nit pick at here is how the hell did Missandei get captured while the rest of them were washing ashore? That was remarkably convenient.

12gauge dave

It just feels all so deflating and pointless at this stage.

sdanseo

sdanseo wrote: »

Not sure Sansa the character we've known would have sworn to John's secret and blabbed immediately.

Sansa said she could not swear without knowing. Jon said you can because "we're family" and then proceeds with the secret they're not family! So, don't think she's breaking a promise.

I've enjoyed this season very much. The pacing is wrong, but ending it this season requires everything to be speeded up. And, you simply can't please everyone.

Bonzo Delaney

Deleted User wrote: »

Sansa said she could not swear without knowing. Jon said you can because "we're family" and then proceeds with the secret they're not family! So, don't think she's breaking a promise.

I've enjoyed this season very much. The pacing is wrong, but ending it this season requires everything to be speeded up. And, you simply can't please everyone.

They are family though they're cousins by blood Ned and Lanna brother and sister

RollieFingers

Personally thought that was much better than last week's dross, for the only reason being that Cersei finally makes another appearance. She won't but would love if she was still on the throne at the end, she's the only character left who interests me, although Dany had a strong episode too. That dragon got got, so did Missandei, ruthless haha.

OneOfThem Stumbled

GOT writers: Okay guys, I know you're all happy we got rid of the walking dead stuff. Now think back to your favourite ever plot-line in GOT. If you didn't say Sansa VS Arya paranoia from last season you got it wrong. We will now focus on Sansa VS Daenerys paranoia because that's what you all want.

FFS if Jon and Daenerys marry then they are king and queen. It doesn't matter who has the better claim. And any children they might have will be in line to the throne (if Daenerys can have children).

As for the other conflict, I can't really take the drunken queen with no allies or territory who has a temporary mercenary army, with her pirate boyfriend (who also has no territory) very seriously as antagonists, even if Euron is able to noscope with a ballista from behind a mountain.

meeeeh

razorblunt wrote: »

Who the fcuk preferes dragons over direwolves?

Direwolves all day for me, give Ghost a rub and a biscuit FFS!

Someone from the show (it could ve writters or someone else, I can't remember) said before that it is a lot harder and more expensive to do direwolves than dragons. So I guess it's budgeting.

I thought it was good episode although Jamie Brienne romance for me doesn't really work. Anyway except Sam and Gilly I can't think of a love story that had a happy ending in the show. It's a good indication where this will go.

Sansa playing her game isn't a surprise, books especially make it very clear she is learning from Little Finger. Her telling Hound she wouldn't become who she is if she escaped with him is an indication in what direction her character developed.

I don't overly rate Emilia Clarke's acting but I think she was very good in this episode. She played well someone on the verge of a breakdown.

Edit: just a question, what happened to the Knights of the Vale? Were they all (any) part of northern forces?

OneOfThem Stumbled

meeeeh wrote: »

Edit: just a question, what happened to the Knights of the Vale? Were they all (any) part of northern forces?

They were part of the northern forces, but they were all dismounted. They basically all died, but they can be resurrected if it is later convenient to the plot.

I'm enjoying the fact that Danerys has lost her 8000 unsullied several times over at this stage. We literally saw all of them die in the last episode. There was even a mention of Dothraki as part of Daenerys' current forces (how!?), even though the show-makers have said that they will not feature again on the show. Distance, time, logistics, and tactics are not the GOT writers' strong points.

pickarooney

I went into this expecting nothing and a little distracted but was pleasantly surprised by the episode. Good to se Qyburn's weapon reappear.

I'm not sure what part of 'a huge fleet of ships advancing slowly in open water' is considered an ambush.

meeeeh

I didn't think last week all Dothraki or Unsullied died but they were depleted.

razorblunt

meeeeh wrote: »

Someone from the show (it could ve writters or someone else, I can't remember) said before that it is a lot harder and more expensive to do direwolves than dragons. So I guess it's budgeting.

I thought it was good episode although Jamie Brienne romance for me doesn't really work. Anyway except Sam and Gilly I can't think of a love story that had a happy ending in the show. It's a good indication where this will go.

Sansa playing her game isn't a surprise, books especially make it very clear she is learning from Little Finger. Her telling Hound she wouldn't become who she is if she escaped with him is an indication in what direction her character developed.

I don't overly rate Emilia Clarke's acting but I think she was very good in this episode. She played well someone on the verge of a breakdown.

Edit: just a question, what happened to the Knights of the Vale? Were they all (any) part of northern forces?

They were on the left hand flank with Brienne, no sign of their commander until this episode and I'm pretty sure he took all his pieces off the board, notably the new Khal didn't, so I assume there a few left across the water to call upon.

OneOfThem Stumbled wrote: »

They were part of the northern forces, but they were all dismounted. They basically all died, but they can be resurrected if it is later convenient to the plot.

I'm enjoying the fact that Danerys has lost her 8000 unsullied several times over at this stage. We literally saw all of them die in the last episode. There was even a mention of Dothraki as part of Daenerys' current forces (how!?), even though the show-makers have said that they will not feature again on the show. Distance, time, logistics, and tactics are not the GOT writers' strong points.

Leftover across the water?
She's supposed to have ~40k and there's no way there was that many outside Winterfell.

Bowlardo

Deleted User wrote: »

You'd think the wildlings and the northerners would have given a hand with Kings landing after they all helped with the night king..

They’ll be down at some stage

pickarooney

I always thought Tormund was really tall for some reason but he's not even 6 foot.

MeTheMan

Meh. It's all a bit wet at this stage. I mean how do you get ambushed at sea while you have dragons flying over head? Danny must of had her eyes in her arse!

Some decent GoT moments but I'm looking forward to it being over at this stage.

OneOfThem Stumbled

meeeeh wrote: »

I didn't think last week all Dothraki or Unsullied died but they were depleted.

We saw every Dothraki die in a mass suicide charge. As Alt Shift X says "That's the end of the Dothraki". Their contribution to the story is over.

The showmakers made a mistake by originally sticking with the books' figures in relation to Unsullied (she obtained 8,000 at Astapor). But unsullied are difficult to come by - they are meant to be the most elite warriors in the world. 8,000 unsullied, despite being a tiny figure, is meant to actually be a very substantial army.

However, it became clear that in Mereen that they were useless Redshirts just designed to die on camera. Because of this we constantly see them getting slaughtered (this episode included), which is just hilarious given the original numbers quoted (or the fact that we saw Grey Worm deliberately trap the Unsullied beyond the barricades last episode as a sacrifice to buy the northern armies time to retreat).

I mean maybe Dany filled the ranks of "unsullied" with freed slave conscripts at some point. They certainly aren't the elite soldiers they were made out to be, so that would at least make more sense.

Bowlardo

At this stage probably best to not get too wound up with posting on the internet.
Make no mistake HBO had the opportunity to close out the most epic series in TV history properly but for what very reason coukdn’t ’t do it
It should have been 2x 6 part series with the first of those 6 ending with last weeks ending.
They have rushed the writing and it shows.

Did I enjoy last night’s episode? I did I leave it at that. To delve any deeper in to my thoughts and I would just start criticizing it

Its all just getting a bit weird now to be honest...

Years spent building up the White Walkers and then they are just destroyed in one episode.
Years spent following Bran become the 3ER, doesn't really seem to do anything useful.
Jaime not really knowing what side he is actually fighting for.
No purpose left for the Wildlings
No real purpose left for Sam Tarly
Years following the rise of Daenarys only for her tactics to be absolutely dreadful when she finally arrives and her advisers ready to switch allegiance
Years spent building up Jon Snow only for him to fall in love and just do whatever Dany commands.

The story has just completely lost its way.

OneOfThem Stumbled

MeTheMan wrote: »

Meh. It's all a bit wet at this stage. I mean how do you get ambushed at sea while you have dragons flying over head? Danny must of had her eyes in her arse!

Some decent GoT moments but I'm looking forward to it being over at this stage.

Never mind her fleet was literally facing them for a number of minutes before they fired on her

https://imgur.com/jS5GAt0

How do you miss that?

I bet the hundred catapult ships that attacked Mereen must feel stupid now. If only they'd used balistae instead of catapults!

Did we really see a dragon survive being attacked by an undead dragon, crash to the earth, and avoid an ice-javelin being shot by a demon zombie king, only to have him instantly killed by some pirate boi? Apparently

Bowlardo wrote: »

They have rushed the writing and it shows.

They doubled the production time, and halved the number of episodes. I don't think it being rushed is the issue.

IAMAMORON

I have never seen a long running TV series end to the satisfaction of its's audience. GOT will be no different. For me I am glad it is winding up.

Don't bend your necks and kill yourselves over it, you are allowed watch it for what it is. Yes the writing has been trite since the show passed the books out. What else can they do? In fairness it does look like even GRM is having difficulty concluding all the arcs. It is a massive saga, we are only going to see a summarised version of the main plotlines.

We still don't know how it is going to end however, so everyone will be watching until then.

The most frustrating part of it all is the amount of armchair critiquing from the audience. You would swear they have cancelled holidays the way people are begrudging the conclusion. Get over yourselves, it is a television show, your allowed hate it, love it or like it. It owes you nothing.

mutley18

The Starbucks coffee cup sitting on the table in front of Daenarys in Winterfell sums this season up for me, rushed and sloppy.

johnny_ultimate

Increasingly convinced Bronn is the only deserving winner of the Game of Thrones.

OneOfThem Stumbled

IAMAMORON wrote: »

I have never seen a long running TV series end to the satisfaction of its's audience. GOT will be no different. For me I am glad it is winding up.

Don't bend your necks and kill yourselves over it, you are allowed watch it for what it is. Yes the writing has been trite since the show passed the books out. What else can they do? In fairness it does look like even GRM is having difficulty concluding all the arcs. It is a massive saga, we are only going to see a summarised version of the main plotlines.

We still don't know how it is going to end however, so everyone will be watching until then.

The most frustrating part of it all is the amount of armchair critiquing from the audience. You would swear they have cancelled holidays the way people are begrudging the conclusion. Get over yourselves, it is a television show, your allowed hate it, love it or like it. It owes you nothing.

If people never complained about the quality of television then high quality HBO shows probably would never have been created in the first place.

Television shows aren't some sort of utilitarian civic service. It's not like public transport, or healthcare, or schooling. The only function it has is to entertain. That is literally what it is for. The degree to which people enjoy a television programme is the only metric we have to determine how good it is, or what quality of show should be created going forward.

GOT is worth critiquing as it is the highest budget (and possibly the highest grossing) and certainly one of the most talked about shows ever to appear. It is a once-in-a-lifetime depiction of the Song of Ice and Fire books on television . The failings that many of us see aren't due to budget, or time constraints, or copyright restrictions, but just bad writing. Bad writing is really easy to fix. You can do it with a pen and paper.

I appreciate that it's really difficult to wrap up such a sprawling story. I'm actually really sympathetic to that. Wrapping up the Iron Islands by saying "oh... Yara just took it" is fine. Saying that Dany has to... might want to spoiler the next bit...

go all mad king

... just in order to add some drama isn't quite as good.

Also the Wire and Breaking Bad were long running shows where fans were more than happy with the concluding seasons.

muddypaws

Why do all the characters seem to accept unquestioningly Danni's constant cry that the Iron Throne is all she's ever wanted and that she was always born to be the Queen? Her brother was meant to sit on the throne, she was given to Drogo as payment for his army to get her brother the throne, not her. This wasn't her whole reason for being. It's always annoyed me, but it's really, really pissing me off now.

derfderf

Did Euron not wonder how Tyrion knew about the baby?
Good episode i thought, much better than last week.

flazio

muddypaws wrote: »

Why do all the characters seem to accept unquestioningly Danni's constant cry that the Iron Throne is all she's ever wanted and that she was always born to be the Queen? Her brother was meant to sit on the throne, she was given to Drogo as payment for his army to get her brother the throne, not her. This wasn't her whole reason for being. It's always annoyed me, but it's really, really pissing me off now.

Watching back on season 1 she does look like someone biding her time rather than a helpless victim, even when she stepped into the boiling bath.

Will Arya now hold back on killing Cersei now if it means handing Danyres the Throne.

I don’t know why Cersei didn’t just take out, Dany, Tyrion, Varys, grey worm, the grazing dragon and the 50 odd unsullied who were standing exposed below her.

flazio

Strawberry Milkshake wrote: »

I don’t know why Cersei didn’t just take out, Dany, Tyrion, Varys, grey worm, the grazing dragon and the 50 odd unsullied who were standing exposed below her.

Because of all the other unsullied, Dothraki, Northern folk and wildlings that Aegon could call upon.

flazio

flazio wrote: »

Because of all the other unsullied, Dothraki, Northern folk and wildlings that Aegon could call upon.

They’re coming anyway

flazio

Strawberry Milkshake wrote: »

They’re coming anyway

True. Personally once The Mountain drew his sword, I'd have an arrow pointed at Qyburn who's still out there.

And in true Sopranos style, there endedth the Game of Thrones

awec

flazio wrote: »

True. Personally once The Mountain drew his sword, I'd have an arrow pointed at Qyburn who's still out there.

And in true Sopranos style, there endedth the Game of Thrones

If they killed him, Cersei would have had to kill Tyrion in retaliation, and that breaks the plot for the last 2 episodes.

IAMAMORON

Strawberry Milkshake wrote: »

I don’t know why Cersei didn’t just take out, Dany, Tyrion, Varys, grey worm, the grazing dragon and the 50 odd unsullied who were standing exposed below her.

A bit too easy for a television show?

I now know why you are not sitting on the iron throne, you need to use a little poetic license from time to time.

I would say the producers have other plans for Tyrion's demise, any thoughts?