Dairy farming...

Gballs

Hi all...
A few years ago I asked ye're opinion on a system of dairy farming, but someone suggested an alternative dairy career....
I took this person's advice, and had a reasonable successful time in that sector...
But unbeknown to the person that suggested it and myself there is little to no growth in this dairy sector...
Which brings me back to my original question....
What type of dairy "cow" system is best suited to a small farm...
From my experience in dairying over the last few years I have learned 2 major things....
1. I like being in the dairy sector, but one that has the potential for growth...
2. It is very hard work with long hours and a poor standard of lifestyle...
So I am torn between two systems...
1. Standard milking parlor with cows on a grazing system...
2. Milking robot ( lely A5 leased ) and high yielding cows housed all year round on a TMR system.....
I'm in the West of Ireland on heavy land, so my head says Robot with TMR...
But I love the idea of cows out grazing which in my opinion is closer to nature...
A grazing systems with the robot won't work as the farm is too fragmented ( two roads )...
But if I house the cows all year round on a TMR, I'll be putting them on straw, slurry tank is not an option, so bedding will be a big cost...

What are ye're thoughts...
PS. I NEED TO MAKE A DECISION REALLY SOON

Mooooo

Why is a slurry tank not an option? It may well be a requirement. Cow's will go thru a mountain of straw. If point 2 above is important to you robots indoor all year round won't give you less work. Constantly cleaning bedding and feeding and more exposed to feed cost peaks and milk troughs. You'll need to give more info on layout of farm etc

jaymla627

Gballs wrote: »

Hi all...
A few years ago I asked ye're opinion on a system of dairy farming, but someone suggested an alternative dairy career....
I took this person's advice, and had a reasonable successful time in that sector...
But unbeknown to the person that suggested it and myself there is little to no growth in this dairy sector...
Which brings me back to my original question....
What type of dairy "cow" system is best suited to a small farm...
From my experience in dairying over the last few years I have learned 2 major things....
1. I like being in the dairy sector, but one that has the potential for growth...
2. It is very hard work with long hours and a poor standard of lifestyle...
So I am torn between two systems...
1. Standard milking parlor with cows on a grazing system...
2. Milking robot ( lely A5 leased ) and high yielding cows housed all year round on a TMR system.....
I'm in the West of Ireland on heavy land, so my head says Robot with TMR...
But I love the idea of cows out grazing which in my opinion is closer to nature...
A grazing systems with the robot won't work as the farm is too fragmented ( two roads )...
But if I house the cows all year round on a TMR, I'll be putting them on straw, slurry tank is not an option, so bedding will be a big cost...

What are ye're thoughts...
PS. I NEED TO MAKE A DECISION REALLY SOON

Overheads will cripple you on a tmr housed 365 system between robot repayments/machinery costs you really won’t have the liters to spread the above costs accross if only milking 65-70 cows, finding the right foundation stock that have the liters plus solids combined and longevity aswell will be near impossible unless you pay serious money for cows

davidk1394

Gballs wrote: »

Hi all...
A few years ago I asked ye're opinion on a system of dairy farming, but someone suggested an alternative dairy career....
I took this person's advice, and had a reasonable successful time in that sector...
But unbeknown to the person that suggested it and myself there is little to no growth in this dairy sector...
Which brings me back to my original question....
What type of dairy "cow" system is best suited to a small farm...
From my experience in dairying over the last few years I have learned 2 major things....
1. I like being in the dairy sector, but one that has the potential for growth...
2. It is very hard work with long hours and a poor standard of lifestyle...
So I am torn between two systems...
1. Standard milking parlor with cows on a grazing system...
2. Milking robot ( lely A5 leased ) and high yielding cows housed all year round on a TMR system.....
I'm in the West of Ireland on heavy land, so my head says Robot with TMR...
But I love the idea of cows out grazing which in my opinion is closer to nature...
A grazing systems with the robot won't work as the farm is too fragmented ( two roads )...
But if I house the cows all year round on a TMR, I'll be putting them on straw, slurry tank is not an option, so bedding will be a big cost...

What are ye're thoughts...
PS. I NEED TO MAKE A DECISION REALLY SOON

I’m still undecided which way to go myself. Biggest thing you have to look at is cost of production. No point getting out a big loan and working for nothing then for 15/20 years. TMR diet isn’t the easiest to manage. Grass and meal is the simplest option of all

Gballs

Thanks for the advice so far....
It is vital I get this right for obvious reasons,
1. Making a reasonable return.
2. 3 young children
3. I don't mind long hrs but I do want a life also.

80 acre farm in 3 division's because of roads.
It would be possible to graze all the farm but that's with a parlor...

The sheds are all straw bedded and not possible to change to slats or lagoon...
I thought about an over ground slurry storage.
One of the biggest problems is the land isn't suited to spreading slurry and in a bad year it would be nearly impossible...

The amount of water required the wash a milking parlor and holding pin is also an issue...

I've seen the robots work and the water requirement is a fraction...

I was thinking of a high yielding Jersey cow, believe it or not they do exist....
But are expensive...

I also thought of a 50/50 grazing / TMR system,
out by day and in at nite...

With a 72 cow herd on a TMR and robot milking I need to be on a winter milk contract, with 6000 ltrs for running costs....

There are ways to reduce to water usage with the parlor...
But straw bedding is the only option I can see for the housing period...

Replacements would be contract reared....

cute geoge

How much will straw cost you annually ,mastitis will be a big problem for bedding milking cows on straw .Cubicles , auto.scrapers,lagoon or slurry tower is the best choice you have.Slurry can be spread with umbilical if tank can not travel and will work out cheaper .
If you have 80 acres the cows can walk to ,it is plenty to manage .zero grazing might be an a better option then tmr for 50/50 cows in at night

TooOldBoots

A question from a non Dairy man but what is TMR?

Gballs

cute geoge wrote: »

How much will straw cost you annually ,mastitis will be a big problem for bedding milking cows on straw .Cubicles , auto.scrapers,lagoon or slurry tower is the best choice you have.Slurry can be spread with umbilical if tank can not travel and will work out cheaper .
If you have 80 acres the cows can walk to ,it is plenty to manage .zero grazing might be an a better option then tmr for 50/50 cows in at night

Do u mean zero grazing while housed.
I'd be looking at a straw bill of about €36000 per year....
If bedding is done right and with a robot and it's ability to stop milking each quarter independently, mastitis can be kept extremely low...

Also the zero grazing systems will require a lot more straw than TMR, which I have no way of calculating....

Research has shown with a high yielding cow a TMR system can be most profitable when a winter milk contract is in place and yield is managed according...

Gballs

TooOldBoots wrote: »

A question from a non Dairy man but what is TMR?

TMR = total mixed ration

Buford T. Justice XIX

Gballs wrote: »

Thanks for the advice so far....
It is vital I get this right for obvious reasons,
1. Making a reasonable return.
2. 3 young children
3. I don't mind long hrs but I do want a life also.

80 acre farm in 3 division's because of roads.
It would be possible to graze all the farm but that's with a parlor...

The sheds are all straw bedded and not possible to change to slats or lagoon...
I thought about an over ground slurry storage.
One of the biggest problems is the land isn't suited to spreading slurry and in a bad year it would be nearly impossible...

The amount of water required the wash a milking parlor and holding pin is also an issue...

I've seen the robots work and the water requirement is a fraction...

I was thinking of a high yielding Jersey cow, believe it or not they do exist....
But are expensive...

I also thought of a 50/50 grazing / TMR system,
out by day and in at nite...

With a 72 cow herd on a TMR and robot milking I need to be on a winter milk contract, with 6000 ltrs for running costs....

There are ways to reduce to water usage with the parlor...
But straw bedding is the only option I can see for the housing period...

Replacements would be contract reared....

Why not? Put cubicles where the cows are currently bedded and install a scraper to clean the passages to a tank outside the house which can be used for feeding?

And as George above said, hire in an umbilical spreader with trailing shoe or whatever to spread with as you're probably going to go into derogation territory where it'll be needed anyway?

Nekarsulm

If the land isn't suitable to spread slurry on, what are you going to do with the mountain of muck and straw?
Put cubicles in your loose shed and scrape the passages sny way you like ( David Brown 880 and a 300 euro yard scraper be my suggestion, or auto scrapers for comfort) into a lagoon or a SlurryStore.
Get it piped out with an umbilical system, keep sverything as simple as possible.

jaymla627

Gballs wrote: »

Thanks for the advice so far....
It is vital I get this right for obvious reasons,
1. Making a reasonable return.
2. 3 young children
3. I don't mind long hrs but I do want a life also.

80 acre farm in 3 division's because of roads.
It would be possible to graze all the farm but that's with a parlor...

The sheds are all straw bedded and not possible to change to slats or lagoon...
I thought about an over ground slurry storage.
One of the biggest problems is the land isn't suited to spreading slurry and in a bad year it would be nearly impossible...

The amount of water required the wash a milking parlor and holding pin is also an issue...

I've seen the robots work and the water requirement is a fraction...

I was thinking of a high yielding Jersey cow, believe it or not they do exist....
But are expensive...

I also thought of a 50/50 grazing / TMR system,
out by day and in at nite...

With a 72 cow herd on a TMR and robot milking I need to be on a winter milk contract, with 6000 ltrs for running costs....

There are ways to reduce to water usage with the parlor...
But straw bedding is the only option I can see for the housing period...

Replacements would be contract reared....

600-700 liters would be the max water usage per milking to wash down your average 10 unit Parlour, 70 cows will need upwards of 5000 liters of water daily and more in hot weather, water availability shouldn’t even be a consideration over robotic/Herringbone system given its only a tiny % of overall water usage on a dairy farm, electric usage would give you a fright with robots when compared to a bare bones Parlour with it been double the cost

TooOldBoots

A fools advice, but would it not be easier to lease out a dairy-farm and maybe rent out or plant your own if its too muddy. I noticed that their is always a few that come up for lease every year if you were prepared to up sticks and move

20silkcut

I housed ten 2 year old bullocks in a straw bedded shed this year the straw was in ****e in a matter of hours. I Was throwing out the straw by hand.

I can only imagine what a herd of dairy cows would do.
You would definitely need a yoke to blow in the straw.
I suppose when you look at the lely stand at the ploughing match it looks like a good set up and cows are content but I can only imagine it would take a serious amount of straw.

When you look at the funky farmer you tube channel and see his cows grazing the silage pit and wandering around a big yard and he scraping everything up a ramp into a muck spreader you really feel jealous of the relaxed regime over in England in regard to winter housing.
Cattle do great when they can wander around an exercise area outdoors.

Dakota Dan

TooOldBoots wrote: »

A question from a non Dairy man but what is TMR?

I was going to answer this question until I saw the posters name a vegan.

Gballs

jaymla627 wrote: »

600-700 liters would be the max water usage per milking to wash down your average 10 unit Parlour, 70 cows will need upwards of 5000 liters of water daily and more in hot weather, water availability shouldn’t even be a consideration over robotic/Herringbone system given its only a tiny % of overall water usage on a dairy farm, electric usage would give you a fright with robots when compared to a bare bones Parlour with it been double the cost

Drinking water

Gballs

jaymla627 wrote: »

600-700 liters would be the max water usage per milking to wash down your average 10 unit Parlour, 70 cows will need upwards of 5000 liters of water daily and more in hot weather, water availability shouldn’t even be a consideration over robotic/Herringbone system given its only a tiny % of overall water usage on a dairy farm, electric usage would give you a fright with robots when compared to a bare bones Parlour with it been double the cost

Drinking water is not the problem, dairy washing water storage and add a large amount of water to land in a bad year is my worry...
So in a sence too much water is more of a problem than too little...

Gballs

TooOldBoots wrote: »

A fools advice, but would it not be easier to lease out a dairy-farm and maybe rent out or plant your own if its too muddy. I noticed that their is always a few that come up for lease every year if you were prepared to up sticks and move

I've inquired, but when u have young children it's not as easy as that...

_Brian

If spreading slurry is a problem how will you spread so much muck from a straw bedded shed ?
At least with slurry you can get a contractor in with a piped system and spread on soft ground, no such option is available with manure, and you will need a considerable covered manure storage area which would probably cost similar to overground storage for slurry.

Straw is such a variable cost I can’t see how you have a figure, Imagine if you’d based your system on straw prices from ten years ago, you’d be ruined now.



We don’t milk but I’ve spent allot of time about dairy farms in my time.

If your looking to 80 cows.

14unit basic parlour with feeders and acr will see you in and out of milkings quickly.

Good roadways and maybe an underpass or two.

Cubicles with scrapers into a tank pumped into overhead storage.

visatorro

What's the biggest block you have?

I'd go milking whatever it could handle maybe even OAD and then work for some else for a few hours. You'd be as far on
Don't go robot and housing yokes, madness.
Don't go spending big money. Spring calving medium sized cow.
Rear your own replacements, sell everything else.
Keep it simple.

Either that or forget about dream and rent it out. Handy money and there is lots of work out there now on and off farm.
It would be different if a previous generation had this set up for you but it's just not feasible with how much money you have to spend, your land type and farm size/division.

Gballs

20silkcut wrote: »

I housed ten 2 year old bullocks in a straw bedded shed this year the straw was in ****e in a matter of hours. I Was throwing out the straw by hand.

I can only imagine what a herd of dairy cows would do.
You would definitely need a yoke to blow in the straw.
I suppose when you look at the lely stand at the ploughing match it looks like a good set up and cows are content but I can only imagine it would take a serious amount of straw.

When you look at the funky farmer you tube channel and see his cows grazing the silage pit and wandering around a big yard and he scraping everything up a ramp into a muck spreader you really feel jealous of the relaxed regime over in England in regard to winter housing.
Cattle do great when they can wander around an exercise area outdoors.

I would definitely have a straw blower, and possibly use peat bedding also with the straw...

Gballs

Ok, by the sound of the replys how about this...

House the cows for what ever length of time I'd have to over the winter on straw...

Graze them as much as possible while milking and put in a basic enough parlor....

Nekarsulm

To my mind, straw bedding adult cattle is only possible if you are also growing grain, and have the straw "on farm" already.

tractorporn

Gballs wrote: »

Ok, by the sound of the replys how about this...

House the cows for what ever length of time I'd have to over the winter on straw...

Graze them as much as possible while milking and put in a basic enough parlor....

Not a dairy man but here's my two cents.

You said you have land in 3 different sub divisions?

I am in a similar position to yourself except our land is in 4 parcels the closest one is 1k away the furthest on is over 20k. I have thought about dairying on our ground and this is the best scenario I could come up with.

1 milk as many cows as the home block would allow, building a parlour bigger than what was currently required

2 use the middle block of land for forage production, possibly 3 cuts

3 use the furthest away block of land for heifers.

In your scenario you could do something similar with the option of an underpass a couple of years down the line once you are up and running to expand if that's what you wanted. I would put in the largest parlour you can afford as well that way the only cost to expansion would be the underpass.

Not sure how busy the roads are but plenty of lads round here still cross the road with cows morning and evening, could be an even cheaper option?

Say my name

Gballs wrote: »

Ok, by the sound of the replys how about this...

House the cows for what ever length of time I'd have to over the winter on straw...

Graze them as much as possible while milking and put in a basic enough parlor....

That's basically my set up.

Except in my favour is that I'm in the southeast and tillage rules in this area with fendt tractors claas combines. That said the price of straw doubled last year and is getting scarcer as other crops are now being sown. Protein crops under 3 crop rule and increased maize sown by tillage farmers. So I'm just nearly on the cliff edge myself about putting in cubicles.
There's a few livestock farmers in the area gone back to sowing their own tillage for straw.

The downside of straw is labour. Need two people one to open the shed gates and one to drive the loader tractor in.
I had a bale shear this year on the front loader and it was a gift of a thing being able to split the bale in half and put one half of the straw bale in one part of the shed and another part in another and being able to grip the net. Mastitis can be an issue sometimes with straw but it's an issue in all cases.
The upsides of it is I'm able to calve the cows down in the same shed and I never have to worry about cows getting stuck in cubicles. It's great for land too but it's the availability in the future has me on the edge of changing.

I've a fairly ok system of roadways so I can usually get the cows out straight after calving. And if you have straw bedding you'll be forced really to get them out as when the diet changes after calving their dung loosens and it'll be more difficult to maintain any sort of bed. Not sure how you'd work that on marginal land but there's my two cents.

patsy_mccabe

How in the name of God, does it makes sense to buy straw at €30 a bale. That's what it was last year here in the west. Used the bare minimum here and that was for under calves. All cows on cubicles. Sucklers here, so no worries about SCC etc.

older by the day

Straw housing is a non runner, hard enough to keep it under baby calves. If you can't travel the ground in dry weather with a 1100 gallon tank with Russian tyres," or between you and me a rain gun " on the wet places, how do you muck spread. I would not be borrowing money with a young family. Milk away 40 or 50 cows and have a few replacements. Have a nice Hereford bull and sell the calves,. Pick up a part time job on the side if you have time, and don't be trying to stay up with the big boys. Robots and zero grazers ffs. Go away with your family for a day out and sack who ever is advising you

Albert Johnson

As a dry stock farmer in the West I should preface all advice with the caveat that I know little of all things dairy farming. Having said that I think the idea of housing cows constantly on straw and producing milk off a TMR system on marginal land in the West of Ireland is total lunacy imo. The cost of implementing and maintaining such a system will cripple you financially for years to come especially if your limited to sub 100 cows upon which to spread the cost.

Straw bedding is getting prohibitively expensive in the West and will only continue to do so imo. If your not in a position to spread slurry then I don't see how farmyard manure will be any different as there are a myriad of options for slurry spreading compared to FYM. Depending on your land base increasing numbers may require a nitrates derogation going forward. I'm dubious as to whether these derogation's will be continued indefinitely or if the policing of them will be tightened up. Either way I'd be slow to build my business model upon the option always being available.

I'm assuming any such changes to your current system will require borrowed capital to implement and once this money is drawn down your committed to the project come what may. You've received some good advice so far from other posters about more viable systems and I don't feel there's anything else I could add that hasn't already been said. I implore you to fire what ever snake oil salesmen is currently advising you about such pipe dreams. The only winner's in such systems will be those selling you straw, meal, fertilizer and so on. I can't see how being stuck with massive commitments both financial and personal for the the next 20 odd years will do anything for you or your love of dairying. Keep going at a similar level and perhaps seek off farm employment but don't become a busy fool and a slave to the bank just because it's the lastest fashionable trend with the so called "advisor's".

20silkcut

Farming on your own with 50/60 cattle with and an off farm 39 hour week job is hard going too.
Concentrating full time on dairy farming is easier in my opinion if you can get a few milkings off at the weekends.

Albert Johnson

20silkcut wrote: »

Farming on your own with 50/60 cattle with and an off farm 39 hour week job is hard going too.
Concentrating full time on dairy farming is easier in my opinion if you can get a few milkings off at the weekends.

I agree that juggling a farm, a young family and a full-time job is a sizeable task but there's plenty at it up and down the country. Having said that if the OP has managed solely on farming financially up until now then a part-time job may be adequate. There's lots of jobs that offer flexible hours that would suit someone needing some additional income. One local dairy farmer does deliveries for a small independent Co-op, it's only 3 days a week and he can mostly plan his hours to suit.

_Brian

Can’t understand being hung up on using straw. It could literally break you as it becomes more expensive and harder to get.

I asked before, if you can’t spread slurry how will you spread all this dung?

older by the day

20silkcut wrote: »

Farming on your own with 50/60 cattle with and an off farm 39 hour week job is hard going too.
Concentrating full time on dairy farming is easier in my opinion if you can get a few milkings off at the weekends.

Well if he has a family and going to borrow big money for a high cost system of farming, its a lot of pressure on himself and his wife. Is it worth it, a part time job and a nice tidy low stocked system would be easier in the mind

Gballs

Say my name wrote: »

That's basically my set up.

Except in my favour is that I'm in the southeast and tillage rules in this area with fendt tractors claas combines. That said the price of straw doubled last year and is getting scarcer as other crops are now being sown. Protein crops under 3 crop rule and increased maize sown by tillage farmers. So I'm just nearly on the cliff edge myself about putting in cubicles.
There's a few livestock farmers in the area gone back to sowing their own tillage for straw.

The downside of straw is labour. Need two people one to open the shed gates and one to drive the loader tractor in.
I had a bale shear this year on the front loader and it was a gift of a thing being able to split the bale in half and put one half of the straw bale in one part of the shed and another part in another and being able to grip the net. Mastitis can be an issue sometimes with straw but it's an issue in all cases.
The upsides of it is I'm able to calve the cows down in the same shed and I never have to worry about cows getting stuck in cubicles. It's great for land too but it's the availability in the future has me on the edge of changing.

I've a fairly ok system of roadways so I can usually get the cows out straight after calving. And if you have straw bedding you'll be forced really to get them out as when the diet changes after calving their dung loosens and it'll be more difficult to maintain any sort of bed. Not sure how you'd work that on marginal land but there's my two cents.

Thanks for taking the time to reply...
And after reading it and how ur running ur farm I'm more determined than ever to use straw bedding....

Our farm was rented for years and when I took it over the land had been destroyed with slurry...
I put up new dry bedded sheds and being putting the FYM out for the last 5 years, u can't believe the difference...
I think slurry is bad for land but with heavy land it's a disaster...

When I say the farm is heavy land, i don't mean it's poor ground...
The soil is very fertile but in a wet year it gets very very soft...
I have started work on open drains and shoers but have a lot more to do...

Roadways, a milking parlor and the right herd and I think ill be able make a good go of it...

I was thinking of timber chips as a cheap way of get going with the roadways...
What are ye're thoughts on this ???...

Gballs

I guess I'm here to get advice and I'm not going to be a slave to farming....
I did very well financially out of farming for the last few years, but at a huge cost...
I was working an average of 100hrs a week...
So those days are over...

I'm not a tree hugger but I care about the environment and even more so about the land I have been lucky enough to have been given....

I'm going to find a way to dry bed the cows while I have them housed...

I'll see if I can put in a second hand 16 unit swingover milking parlor...
And keep about 64 milkers...
If a bit of land comes up close to me I'll try lease it, otherwise I'll have to have replacements contract reared....

With the reseeding I've done I have put in a lot of clover, it's done really well but how can I prevent bloat...
I have looked into this a good bit but all advice is very welcome, organic dairy farms would have the same so there must be a way...

Say my name

Gballs wrote: »

Thanks for taking the time to reply...
And after reading it and how ur running ur farm I'm more determined than ever to use straw bedding....

Our farm was rented for years and when I took it over the land had been destroyed with slurry...
I put up new dry bedded sheds and being putting the FYM out for the last 5 years, u can't believe the difference...
I think slurry is bad for land but with heavy land it's a disaster...

When I say the farm is heavy land, i don't mean it's poor ground...
The soil is very fertile but in a wet year it gets very very soft...
I have started work on open drains and shoers but have a lot more to do...

Roadways, a milking parlor and the right herd and I think ill be able make a good go of it...

I was thinking of timber chips as a cheap way of get going with the roadways...
What are ye're thoughts on this ???...

Timber chips on the roadways.
Not a hope. It'll turn to muck in quick time.

The availability of chips is getting harder to get too and dearer too. Then you have some shady suppliers selling recycled timber chips which can be full of plastic and electrical wire.

Shale and limestone dust on top with the topsoil base dug out makes a good roadway and for a permanent job. Concrete. That's expensive though. But sometimes concrete is more cost effective compared to stone and maintenance after.

I wish you luck but I really hope you know what you're getting into.
The financial requirements of me from a business being a single bloke are different from someone with three children. I'm in around the 50 cow mark and when the price of milk hit 20cent my profit for the year was 150 euro and that was with very low drawings.
But seriously I do wish you good luck with the caveats now shown.

whelan2

Gballs wrote: »

I guess I'm here to get advice and I'm not going to be a slave to farming....
I did very well financially out of farming for the last few years, but at a huge cost...
I was working an average of 100hrs a week...
So those days are over...

I'm not a tree hugger but I care about the environment and even more so about the land I have been lucky enough to have been given....

I'm going to find a way to dry bed the cows while I have them housed...

I'll see if I can put in a second hand 16 unit swingover milking parlor...
And keep about 64 milkers...
If a bit of land comes up close to me I'll try lease it, otherwise I'll have to have replacements contract reared....

With the reseeding I've done I have put in a lot of clover, it's done really well but how can I prevent bloat...
I have looked into this a good bit but all advice is very welcome, organic dairy farms would have the same so there must be a way...

Havent read all this thread but 16 unit parlour for 64 cows as a start off is crazy imo. I have 165 milking in a 15 unit atm. I too have heavy land. All is good in a dry year last year was fantastic. In a wet year i'm goosedI think you need to talk to a few advisors and see what the options are. Have 3 kids too .

Mooooo

Join a discussion group, get an advisor and go over the financial side. The cost of straw for your winters and location will be prohibitive. Also regulations will require tanks for run off and storage for parlour. While clover is good in some situations on heavy ground it will be more open in winter and spring which will leave ground more open to poaching along with poorer performance in wet summer's. Slurry won't destroy ground, badly managed spreading it will. If cow's or a dung spreader can go out then slurry will as well. By all means a bedded shed could be used for part of the herd but tbh it's unsustainable over a long term period imo.

Don't mean to be putting you down but What you need to do is get out and see what other lads are doing on similar ground. Get on to teagasc or someone to see what's out there. Get the financial and physical plan on paper and go from there

Gballs

Say my name wrote: »

Timber chips on the roadways.
Not a hope. It'll turn to muck in quick time.

The availability of chips is getting harder to get too and dearer too. Then you have some shady suppliers selling recycled timber chips which can be full of plastic and electrical wire.

Shale and limestone dust on top with the topsoil base dug out makes a good roadway and for a permanent job. Concrete. That's expensive though. But sometimes concrete is more cost effective compared to stone and maintenance after.

I wish you luck but I really hope you know what you're getting into.
The financial requirements of me from a business being a single bloke are different from someone with three children. I'm in around the 50 cow mark and when the price of milk hit 20cent my profit for the year was 150 euro and that was with very low drawings.
But seriously I do wish you good luck with the caveats now shown.

Thank u,

I'm sure I'll be asking a lot of questions along the way....

I have a job as well, so good in some ways but bad in other....

Gballs

Mooooo wrote: »

Join a discussion group, get an advisor and go over the financial side. The cost of straw for your winters and location will be prohibitive. Also regulations will require tanks for run off and storage for parlour. While clover is good in some situations on heavy ground it will be more open in winter and spring which will leave ground more open to poaching along with poorer performance in wet summer's. Slurry won't destroy ground, badly managed spreading it will. If cow's or a dung spreader can go out then slurry will as well. By all means a bedded shed could be used for part of the herd but tbh it's unsustainable over a long term period imo.

Don't mean to be putting you down but What you need to do is get out and see what other lads are doing on similar ground. Get on to teagasc or someone to see what's out there. Get the financial and physical plan on paper and go from there

I definitely join a local discussion group...
Similar farms around me doing dairying, not meaning to run anyone down but what I see most if not all doing is renting some good land no matter how far away and spreading the bulk of there slurry there...
After the 5 or 10 yrs are up they are put out and the land is in sh1t and they move on some where else...
There own farms are over stocked and last year most of them went through hell....

I have the milking pit and the waste was tank, water treatment system and bulk tank...
So milking machine roadways and a herd + a good bit of tidying up fencing and such...

Wildly Boaring

Say my name wrote: »

Timber chips on the roadways.
Not a hope. It'll turn to muck in quick time.

The availability of chips is getting harder to get too and dearer too. Then you have some shady suppliers selling recycled timber chips which can be full of plastic and electrical wire.

Shale and limestone dust on top with the topsoil base dug out makes a good roadway and for a permanent job. Concrete. That's expensive though. But sometimes concrete is more cost effective compared to stone and maintenance after.

Civils not farming this generation.

Concrete be over the top.

As above strip topsoil and any soft

Then Terram 1000 or equivalent (tensar make exact same at lower price). Best thing ever for a farm road.

Then capping (6F2) say 8 inches from a quarry doing a nice shaley stone.

Top off with smaller stone and/or quarry dust as above

Top main thing, the really important thing- drain the road. Get water off the road build up and into a ditch. V ditch right beside the road at least 2 foot lower than road.

Gballs

Wildly Boaring wrote: »

Civils not farming this generation.

Concrete be over the top.

As above strip topsoil and any soft

Then Terram 1000 or equivalent (tensar make exact same at lower price). Best thing ever for a farm road.

Then capping (6F2) say 8 inches from a quarry doing a nice shaley stone.

Top off with smaller stone and/or quarry dust as above

Top main thing, the really important thing- drain the road. Get water off the road build up and into a ditch. V ditch right beside the road at least 2 foot lower than road.

I'll have to do a lot more research, as some of the stuff u've mentioned there I know nothing about...
But Tensar looks a great job but manga expensive, that is if I was looking at the right thing on- line...

Has anyone an idea of a price on roadways per meter....

Local quarry is a daylight robber...

Wildly Boaring

Gballs wrote: »

I'll have to do a lot more research, as some of the stuff u've mentioned there I know nothing about...
But Tensar looks a great job but manga expensive, that is if I was looking at the right thing on- line...

Has anyone an idea of a price on roadways per meter....

Local quarry is a daylight robber...

Roll of tensar as per terram 1000 should be less than 150 plus VAT. At a guess 4.5m by 100m long?? Only need 1 layer.

150 plus vat terram for 100m of road. There will be at least €2500 plus vat of stone in the same 100m!!!

6F2 is just capping stone. Like 4 inch down but has more fines in it so binds better. Can have a lot of dirt in it so be nicer coming from shale.

Quarry dust will make it that bit better for hooves. No big stones. If put down dry should harden and sit on top.

But again. Get it dry and keep it dry. Nothing else really matters. A dry haul road will hold up. A wet one with a meter deep of stoned will still go to ****e.

Edit


price per 100 m (all figures ex VAT)
As above: terram 150
Stone say 2500. 80m3 is say 10 loads at 250 each
Machinery and driver
2 days excavator, dumpers and roller with 2 men
1600??
Total = 4250

Per metre = €40 for 3m wide with 8 inches stone and layer terram.

Doing longer you might increase production and get labour/machinery down

Ground really bad, may put up.stone costs by at least 50%

Nekarsulm

I reckon you are going to bed with straw no matter how many people offer alternatives.
You say a slurry tank is not an option, due to cost, but a slurry tank would be paid for some day, you'll be buying straw for ever.
Would 3 bales a day bed the cows?
Thats anywhere between 50 to 80 euro a day, 1500 to 2400 euro a month, in a six month winter you are looking at 9 to 15,000 a year for straw.
That would pay for a hell of a slatted shed and basic 10 unit parlour over 15 years....
Best of luck whatever you decide.

Gballs

Wildly Boaring wrote: »

Roll of tensar as per terram 1000 should be less than 150 plus VAT. At a guess 4.5m by 100m long?? Only need 1 layer.

150 plus vat terram for 100m of road. There will be at least €2500 plus vat of stone in the same 100m!!!

6F2 is just capping stone. Like 4 inch down but has more fines in it so binds better. Can have a lot of dirt in it so be nicer coming from shale.

Quarry dust will make it that bit better for hooves. No big stones. If put down dry should harden and sit on top.

But again. Get it dry and keep it dry. Nothing else really matters. A dry haul road will hold up. A wet one with a meter deep of stoned will still go to ****e.

Edit


price per 100 m (all figures ex VAT)
As above: terram 150
Stone say 2500. 80m3 is say 10 loads at 250 each
Machinery and driver
2 days excavator, dumpers and roller with 2 men
1600??
Total = 4250

Per metre = €40 for 3m wide with 8 inches stone and layer terram.

Doing longer you might increase production and get labour/machinery down

Ground really bad, may put up.stone costs by at least 50%

Thanks for that...
I did a rough measurement a while back and reckon I'd need 1km...

With another 500m as I was earning from the farm...

Is there anyway wood chip would last for 2yrs or am I just fooling myself...

Then put down the stone and maybe that Tensar as I've never heard of it...
Then finish it off on top....

Gballs

Nekarsulm wrote: »

I reckon you are going to bed with straw no matter how many people offer alternatives.
You say a slurry tank is not an option, due to cost, but a slurry tank would be paid for some day, you'll be buying straw for ever.
Would 3 bales a day bed the cows?
Thats anywhere between 50 to 80 euro a day, 1500 to 2400 euro a month, in a six month winter you are looking at 9 to 15,000 a year for straw.
That would pay for a hell of a slatted shed and basic 10 unit parlour over 15 years....
Best of luck whatever you decide.

It's not that a slurry tanker is not an option...
A few years back I owned one and put slurry out...

Then I visited a farm that only used FYM and the difference was amazing...

So I stopped all slurry and went with FYM and I can see the benefits in the land...

The soil is really healthy the grass and clover is doing amazing...

So the main reason I don't want to go back to slurry is because I've seen the difference...
Yes straw is dear, but the fertilizer bill is down by 40% and the grass clover growth is up by 30%....

_Brian

Gballs wrote: »

It's not that a slurry tanker is not an option...
A few years back I owned one and put slurry out...

Then I visited a farm that only used FYM and the difference was amazing...

So I stopped all slurry and went with FYM and I can see the benefits in the land...

The soil is really healthy the grass and clover is doing amazing...

So the main reason I don't want to go back to slurry is because I've seen the difference...
Yes straw is dear, but the fertilizer bill is down by 40% and the grass clover growth is up by 30%....

Life is all about balance and compromise.

You’ll have replacements and other stock that can go on straw, bit for a herd of dairy cows and no direct access to straw yourself it’s going to take a chunk out of your returns to bed then with straw.
In a year where straw is dear and milk is cheap it may be the difference in making a profit or being a busy fool.

patsy_mccabe

It's being well debated here before but, you may be missing the point with slurry. Slurry is just cow dung and urine. Whether it comes straight outta da cow or spread from a moving tank, it's the same thing.
A lot of guys think it's the heavy blanket spreading that's doing the damage. It seems to kill off the worm population. Lads always spread it too in wet weather which is leading to greater soil compaction.
Using trailing shoe spreaders and spreading less and more often would help too.

Nekarsulm

Gballs wrote: »

It's not that a slurry tanker is not an option...
A few years back I owned one and put slurry out...

..

I said slurry tank, (be it above, below ground or a lagoon) not slurry tanker.

tractorporn

Gballs wrote: »

It's not that a slurry tanker is not an option...
A few years back I owned one and put slurry out...

Then I visited a farm that only used FYM and the difference was amazing...

So I stopped all slurry and went with FYM and I can see the benefits in the land...

The soil is really healthy the grass and clover is doing amazing...

So the main reason I don't want to go back to slurry is because I've seen the difference...
Yes straw is dear, but the fertilizer bill is down by 40% and the grass clover growth is up by 30%....

If that's the road your heading down you may as well go the whole way and go organic. At least that way you would be getting a payment on the ground and a premium price for the milk. It sounds like your housing would be suitable for organic without spending any money on it. There are grants available for straw choppers etc. with organics as well.

Bullocks

Gballs wrote: »

It's not that a slurry tanker is not an option...
A few years back I owned one and put slurry out...

Then I visited a farm that only used FYM and the difference was amazing...

So I stopped all slurry and went with FYM and I can see the benefits in the land...

The soil is really healthy the grass and clover is doing amazing...

So the main reason I don't want to go back to slurry is because I've seen the difference...
Yes straw is dear, but the fertilizer bill is down by 40% and the grass clover growth is up by 30%....

I think you would be mad not to build slurry storage and maybe spend enough to give you storage that will hold all you need and then a few months extra so you only need to spread when weather suits.
Can aeration help get over the compaction from slurry spreading?

Gballs

Nekarsulm wrote: »

I said slurry tank, (be it above, below ground or a lagoon) not slurry tanker.

Sorry, miss read...

If I did have to go down the route of slurry tank, it would be an over ground slurry storage...

The sheds are set up for straw bedding, 2 foot drop where the cows would be...

But if the straw was proofing a non runner, there is a way I could put in cubicles and slats and then pump it into an over ground tank...