Vegan AMA

frag420

Unearthly wrote: »

Why should she lie? Especially when the question is put to her.

A good question to ask you is, why does veganism need to be hidden from you? Does it make you uncomfortable? Why is that?

Who said it needs to be hidden from me? A certain sport is a big part of my life but I don’t bring it up at every opportunity, I just get on with it.

A question for you, why did you ask me if veganism makes me uncomfortable and follow with a question that assumes you know the answer I was going to give? Why do you assume Veganism makes me uncomfortable, it doesn’t by the way!

Aoife77

frag420 wrote: »

Who said it needs to be hidden from me? A certain sport is a big part of my life but I don’t bring it up at every opportunity, I just get on with it.

A question for you, why did you ask me if veganism makes me uncomfortable and follow with a question that assumes you know the answer I was going to give? Why do you assume Veganism makes me uncomfortable, it doesn’t by the way!

That's what I'm saying, it's not brought up at every opportunity. Not when we talk about the weather. Not when the post comes in. They know I'm vegan. It rarely comes up. Sometimes people ask a question. I answer said question if I know the answer

Unearthly

frag420 wrote: »

Who said it needs to be hidden from me? A certain sport is a big part of my life but I don’t bring it up at every opportunity, I just get on with it.

A question for you, why did you ask me if veganism makes me uncomfortable and follow with a question that assumes you know the answer I was going to give? Why do you assume Veganism makes me uncomfortable, it doesn’t by the way!

You revealed your cards when you wanted her to lie about not being hungry. Therefore your position was that you prefer to hear a lie, than the truth (veganism)

That means your position is that of someone who has an issue against veganism and want to avoid it.

As for your sport, if someone had a match at 8pm and was asked by someone do they fancy a pint, should they respond by saying 'sorry no I have work later'

Also have you even thought of the practicalities of it? In a work environment, my colleagues know I'm vegan so they don't offer me cake etc. It isn't an everyday discussion that I'm vegan and it avoids the awkwardness of me having to say no thanks several times a week.

davidjtaylor

Aoife77, what part of Ireland are you in? Roughly, that’s all. I’m in Clare.

Aoife77

davidjtaylor wrote: »

Aoife77, what part of Ireland are you in? Roughly, that’s all. I’m in Clare.

From county Limerick, live in Kerry for work

Johnnyhpipe

I’m trying to understand veganism to see if there’s anything worth considering. I just spent the last 10 minutes watching a youtube video where an incredibly annoying vegan argues with 2 PhD biologists.. Getting up now for some turkey bacon bagels.

Aoife77

Unearthly wrote: »

You revealed your cards when you wanted her to lie about not being hungry. Therefore your position was that you prefer to hear a lie, than the truth (veganism)

That means your position is that of someone who has an issue against veganism and want to avoid it.

As for your sport, if someone had a match at 8pm and was asked by someone do they fancy a pint, should they respond by saying 'sorry no I have work later'

Also have you even thought of the practicalities of it? In a work environment, my colleagues know I'm vegan so they don't offer me cake etc. It isn't an everyday discussion that I'm vegan and it avoids the awkwardness of me having to say no thanks several times a week.

Bingo. Has to come a few times to stop the constant barrage of offers etc regardless of kind intentions. I think a mountain is being made out of mole hill by the other person, soz can't remember the name. It's not an issue

Aoife77

Johnnyhpipe wrote: »

I’m trying to understand veganism to see if there’s anything worth considering. I just spent the last 10 minutes watching a youtube video where an incredibly annoying vegan argues with 2 PhD biologists.. Getting up now for some turkey bacon bagels.

You might like Mic The Vegan on YouTube. Funny but informative and myth dispelling. A lot of rubbish on the YouTube machine too for sure.

And Earthling Ed to understand the ethics. Plant Based News and Dr Garth Davis too. Shout if you have a question

stefanovich

Just compare heart disease rates between meat eaters, vegetarians and vegans... Vegans are by far the lowest risk.

jh79

stefanovich wrote: »

Just compare heart disease rates between meat eaters, vegetarians and vegans... Vegans are by far the lowest risk.

What study are you basing that claim on?

As far as i am aware veganism offers no benefits over a balanced diet with meat and dairy included.

kerplun k

Fair play Aoife. I tried a couple of times to go vegetarian. The longest I lasted was 2 years. I have some questions if you don’t mind

Do you “look down” on the rest of us, The way we mass produce, slaughter and consume meat is quite sickening. I’m asking this as a person who eats a lot of meat but I’m also disgusted at the way we produce and consume it.

Are you concerned at how meat is marketed? I took my niece to McDonalds yesterday. She has no idea that the chicken nuggets she was eating were slaughtered for her enjoyment, the meat is sold by a cartoon clown and sold as an innocent product rather than the actual living animal it once was. Do you think governments should introduce policies that make meat products more honest with branding and marketing? I.e restrict a happy cartoon chicken on a box of chicken nuggets.

Do you think if people had to catch, kill, prepare and cook their own food, at some stage of their life, there would be more vegans and vegetarians?

I struggle with the idea of eating meat, I mean if a superior and more intelligent species came to this planet and replicated the process of the way we eat animals, and did that to us, we wouldn’t be happy, do you think it’s fundamentally wrong to eat meat?

Do you think people have issues with vegans and vegetarians because we carry a sense of guilt?

Aoife77

jh79 wrote: »

What study are you basing that claim on?

As far as i am aware veganism offers no benefits over a balanced diet with meat and dairy included.

Hi! You might like to take a look at The China Study and How Not To Die 😊 studies can be so dense to read though. I like Dr Michael Gregor' s website nutritionfacts.org. He looks at the studies and condenses them into legible and understandable info

Pkiernan

kerplun k wrote: »

I struggle with the idea of eating meat, I mean if a superior and more intelligent spices came to this planet and replicated the process of the way we eat animals, and did that to us, we wouldn’t be happy, do you think it’s fundamentally wrong to eat meat?

Do you think people have issues with vegans and vegetarians because we carry a sense of guilt?

Then you should stop eating commercially produced meat.
And never go to fast food outlets.

It's never been easier to be vegetarian.

You may also wish to consider hunting. The deer I shoot have never seen a farm or a cage or any antibiotics or any form of confinement or cruelty.

stefanovich

jh79 wrote: »

What study are you basing that claim on?

As far as i am aware veganism offers no benefits over a balanced diet with meat and dairy included.

Not one in particular but there have been countless that conclude that the less meat and dairy you eat the less your cardiovascular risk. Now of course a vegan junk food diet is unhealthy.

kerplun k

Pkiernan wrote: »

Then you should stop eating commercially produced meat.
And never go to fast food outlets.

It's never been easier to be vegetarian.

You may also wish to consider hunting. The deer I shoot have never seen a farm or a cage or any antibiotics or any form of confinement or cruelty.

I couldn’t pull the trigger, which is why I think it’s hypocritical of me eating meat. Your right tho, I should make a bigger effort when selecting what I choose to eat.

jh79

stefanovich wrote: »

Not one in particular but there have been countless that conclude that the less meat and dairy you eat the less your cardiovascular risk. Now of course a vegan junk food diet is unhealthy.

Sorry for being pedantic but saying the "less meat you eat...." suggests that no meat or dairy is best which isn't true. Saying excessive meat consumption increases risk would be more correct.

khaldrogo

Unearthly wrote:

A good question to ask you is, why does veganism need to be hidden from you? Does it make you uncomfortable? Why is that?

I view it the same as religion and politics.......I don't need to hear about your beliefs/views on any of them.

Why is that? Does it make me uncomfortable? Not in the slightest. It makes me yawn tbh.

jh79

Aoife77 wrote: »

Hi! You might like to take a look at The China Study and How Not To Die 😊 studies can be so dense to read though. I like Dr Michael Gregor' s website nutritionfacts.org. He looks at the studies and condenses them into legible and understandable info

Familiar with the 2 of them. Their interpretations of the research is flawed. Veganism does not offer any benefits over a balanced diet that includes meat and dairy.

Science Based Medicine is a good resource for debunking the false claims of Campbell and Gregor.

Aoife77

kerplun k wrote: »

Fair play Aoife. I tried a couple of times to go vegetarian. The longest I lasted was 2 years. I have some questions if you don’t.

Do you “look down” on the rest of us, The way we mass produce, slaughter and consume meat is quite sickening. I’m asking this as a person who eats a lot of meat but I’m also disgusted at the way we produce and consume it.

Are you concerned at how meat is marketed? I took my niece to McDonalds yesterday. She has no idea that the chicken nuggets she was eating were slaughtered for her enjoyment, the meat is sold by a cartoon clown and sold as an innocent product rather than the actual living animal it once was. Do you think governments should introduce policies that make meat products more honest with branding and marketing? I.e restrict a happy cartoon chicken on a box of chicken nuggets.

Do you think if people had to catch, kill, prepare and cook their own food, at some stage of their life, there would be more vegans and vegetarians?

I struggle with the idea of eating meat, I mean if a superior and more intelligent spices came to this planet and replicated the process of the way we eat animals, and did that to us, we wouldn’t be happy, do you think it’s fundamentally wrong to eat meat?

Do you think people have issues with vegans and vegetarians because we carry a sense of guilt?

I do not look down on anyone. Again for the people in the back, I do not look down on anyone! But I do find the mass production of animal products sickening. Don't blame abetoir workers-they need a wage to look after their families. I don't blame Joe Soap for going to the shop and buying the same things his parents bought him. It's what is familiar, convenient and marketed to us. There is a much larger profit margin to be made off of beef than apples. Also it's hugely inconvenient to entirety change your diet. It's easier for people to ignore it and continue as they are. I get that. But all the evidence shows it is unnecessary. There are alternatives available. You can do amazingly well on a whole food plant based diet and you will reduce animal suffering in the process. And your environmental impact will lessen. I can't see a negative.

Yes meat is marketed horribly. Laughing Cow cheese for example! Most people appear fairly sickened after watching slaughter house footage. I think there is often a dissociation between the footage of animal being killed and a chicken nugget. If people had to get a calf, rare it and cut its throat and slice it up, I think must of us would be up for trying something else. Not to mention the huge amount of resources that have to go into each animal before being slaughtered. There are a huge number of farmers in Ireland and the government likes to keep them on side where possible. But it's just not sustainable and so unnecessary. Again, don't blame farmers for trying to earn a living etc. It's supply and demand. Profit driven. Sentient beings are suffering because of it though. And climate change is frightening. When our alien overlords arrive we are finished lol!!

I do think if a healthy diet with lesser environmental impact exists that also lessens suffering, it's a no brainer.


I think people dislike vegans because they assume we think we are superior. There aren't many vegans from birth. We all have blood on our hands one way or another. I think people used to assume the same of devoutly religious people too. I guess it's similar to that but veganism isn't a cult by any means. And yes I do think some vegans are awful. Loeding their ethics over others helps no one and turns people away from considering dropping animal products. Not cool, not helpful.

My/your/our taste buds are not important when the results are so extreme. Hope that all all made sense!

Aoife77

jh79 wrote: »

Familiar with the 2 of them. Their interpretations of the research is flawed. Veganism does not offer any benefits over a balanced diet that includes meat and dairy.

Science Based Medicine is a good resource for debunking the false claims of Campbell and Gregor.

Science based? They are doctors? No one is saying you can't live a long life with animal products. It's possible for sure. You could put any group of scientists in front of any study and tell them to debunk it. There will always be something to pick at

Unearthly

khaldrogo wrote: »

I view it the same as religion and politics.......I don't need to hear about your beliefs/views on any of them.

Why is that? Does it make me uncomfortable? Not in the slightest. It makes me yawn tbh.

When the question is asked to the individual then they are perfectly entitled to explain the reason aren't they?

As much as you'd like it to be true that vegans bring it up in every conversation, it isn't, however eating food is a very social event so It's not something people can hide.

Funny how vegans get accused of this but then nearly every vegan topic on boards is full of 'hahaha just had some steak hahaha'

jh79

Aoife77 wrote: »

Science based? They are doctors? No one is saying you can't live a long life with animal products. It's possible for sure. You could put any group of scientists in front of any study and tell them to debunk it. There will always be something to pick at

Yes, a group of doctors who debunk pseudoscience of all types. Generally fake cancer cures and anti-vax stuff. The likes of the HOPE, What the Health and Forks Over Knives movies have featured in the past due to thier promotion of pseudoscience.

Aoife77

jh79 wrote: »

Yes, a group of doctors who debunk pseudoscience of all types. Generally fake cancer cures and anti-vax stuff. The likes of the HOPE, What the Health and Forks Over Knives movies have featured in the past due to thier promotion of pseudoscience.

There's nothing pesudo about preventing heart disease. I'm saying a group of doctors can poke holes in any nutrition study as human bodies are so very individual. I have yet to see a study that said eat less plant based food and more animal products for good health because that is just not the case. And no one said vegans can't get cancer or have a heart attack. Veganism doesn't equal health. There's oil filled veggie burgers and brownies and ice cream and whatever else that are perfectly vegan. I specifically haven't recommended any of those Netflix docs as they obviously have an agenda. I agree with said agenda but that's not currently relevant.

You're asking for a perfect answer and it doesn't exist

Aoife77

Now might be a good time to remind that food is only one part of veganism

Mundo7976

Why on earth are some vegan foods marketed as meat products, vegan chicken/burgers/sausages etc, seems to be contradictory especially when theyre made to look like said meats

Unearthly

Mundo7976 wrote: »

Why on earth are some vegan foods marketed as meat products, vegan chicken/burgers/sausages etc, seems to be contradictory especially when theyre made to look like said meats

Most vegans/vegetarians enjoyed the taste of meat but aren't comfortable that an animal lost its life for it therefore these alternatives attempt to mimic the texture and taste to help the transition

Aoife77

Mundo7976 wrote: »

Why on earth are some vegan foods marketed as meat products, vegan chicken/burgers/sausages etc, seems to be contradictory especially when theyre made to look like said meats

Hi! There is no word in the English language to describe a product that looks, feels and tastes similar to chicken. It makes for easier marketing id imagine. People are likely to have a good idea of what's in the box. Textured soy based disk doesn't quite have the same ring to it

Mundo7976

Aoife77 wrote: »

Hi! There is no word in the English language to describe a product that looks, feels and tastes similar to chicken. It makes for easier marketing id imagine. People are likely to have a good idea of what's in the box. Textured soy based disk doesn't quite have the same ring to it

Im confused. Vegans dont want to eat meat but want something that feels and tastes similar? Kinda defeats the purpose of the decision.
Also official definitions of burger/sausage is ground meat made into the shapes they are not the animals they come from!

Unearthly

Mundo7976 wrote: »

Im confused. Vegans dont want to eat meat but want something that feels and tastes similar? Kinda defeats the purpose of the decision.
Also official definitions of burger/sausage is ground meat made into the shapes they are not the animals they come from!

They are against the death of the animal, not the taste. Most grew up eating meat. They didn't go vegetarian or vegan because it tasted crap, it was their ethical choice

cgcsb

stefanovich wrote: »

Just compare heart disease rates between meat eaters, vegetarians and vegans... Vegans are by far the lowest risk.

The amount of people born raised and died on a strict vegan diet is negligible. There are no such studies with any sort of decent sample sizes.