Ready to get married

LegacyUser

So I’ve been with my partner for ~4 years, living together for over half that time and have talked about a future together. We have a big holiday planned this year, so I’ve said that at some point after that I’d like to visit a mortgage advisor to get the ball rolling on buying a house and he is in agreement. We’re both doing pretty well financially (decent jobs, salaries and savings), but I’m conscious that we might need to be “good behaviour” financially for a while before actually applying for a mortgage - which is why I haven’t suggested doing it right now.

We’ve also talked about trying to have kids in the future. However we’re not getting any younger (both approaching mid-30s), so it’s not something we can put on the long finger indefinitely. And I would ideally like to have a house/home together first.

However… if we’re planning to buy a house and potentially have a baby, I’d also like to get married. This is the part I have trouble discussing with him To be fair, he did bring it up at one point during a discussion about houses and babies, but it pretty much went as far as “so marriage would probably come into this at some point too” and I agreed… but that was it for the marriage part of the conversation. I have absolutely NO idea how to bring this up again. I’m a pretty blunt person, so I honestly don’t know how to discuss it without pressuring him.

I suppose I’m getting a little impatient and don’t understand why we’re not engaged yet. I feel like it’s the right time. Not just because of our age and how long we’ve been together, but because of the natural progression of our relationship. For me it’s more about officially starting a life together and knowing for sure that he’s committed to a long term future together. I guess I’m just impatient to officially start our lives together! And I know that some people are just going to say to talk about it and decide together to get engaged (or propose myself). But there is a part of me that would like a surprise romantic proposal from him. Not something showy at all though, just something sweet and intimate. I suppose I’m traditional in the sense that I feel that he should be the one to propose - and since we’ve already discussed the future, he shouldn’t have any fear of rejection. So what’s the hold up :P

One thing that might be an issue is that one of his siblings is getting married this year. I feel that maybe he doesn’t want to take the limelight away from them, but honestly… how long are we meant to wait? Maybe that’s not the real reason he hasn’t proposed yet, but I’m afraid to ask…

PARlance

If he's in agreement that he wants to buy a house then I wouldn't be worrying about a lack of commitment.

If I was in your situation, I would approach it by having a talk about children rather than getting married. Perfectly reasonable to discuss that given that you're both mid-30's. Marriage can come after kids.

You never know, the discussion might prompt him to get the finger/ring out.

Almost certain that's the approach my wife took with me and it worked for her One things for (almost) certain is that he won't be thinking about these things as much as you are.

Kidchameleon

You propose if he hasnt, simple.

jimmycrackcorm

Once you have a mortgage and kids together then marriage is largely irrelevant except for some taxation considerations.

However it's 2019. There's nothing to do you proposing rather than waiting for that.

xi5yvm0owc1s2b

GettingImpatient wrote: »

I suppose I’m getting a little impatient and don’t understand why we’re not engaged yet. I feel like it’s the right time. Not just because of our age and how long we’ve been together, but because of the natural progression of our relationship. For me it’s more about officially starting a life together and knowing for sure that he’s committed to a long term future together. I guess I’m just impatient to officially start our lives together! And I know that some people are just going to say to talk about it and decide together to get engaged (or propose myself). But there is a part of me that would like a surprise romantic proposal from him. Not something showy at all though, just something sweet and intimate. I suppose I’m traditional in the sense that I feel that he should be the one to propose - and since we’ve already discussed the future, he shouldn’t have any fear of rejection. So what’s the hold up :P

OP, you seem to want everything done in a particular scripted way. You want a surprise romantic proposal initiated by him, followed by a house purchase, then the wedding, then babies. But your preconceived idea of "the way things should be done" may not be his -- and it's not the reality for many couples anymore. One third of babies in today's Ireland are born to unwed parents.

When you say "I’m just impatient to officially start our lives together," it's as if you regard the life you have together right now as provisional and unofficial. But maybe he's perfectly happy with cohabiting right now? Maybe buying a house together is a big enough step for him? Maybe these demands to "make it official" will just just push him away. It's hard to know. But I'd advise you to consider that the way you see things isn't necessarily the way he sees them.

LegacyUser

This comment could tell a lot
"so marriage would probably come into this at some point too” and I agreed…

Did he mean it as in 'oh god it's all going down that road' or ' this would be a natural next step with the other commitments which I'm excited about'

If you got the feeling it was the second option, it sounds like he assumes ye will get married and is fine with it. He prob hasn't asked as tbh he's not thinking about it/it's not as important to him as it is to you..might be worth being blunt and just asking him is he ready to go ahead with marriage and let him know you want him to make the move...honestly, most couples talk about it, nobody does the surprise proposal and with good reason- I'd be a bit shocked and put out if I was given an ultimatum/put on the spot by a proposal without discussing how I felt about getting married first.

If he sounded freaked by all the commitment then that's another thing...

LegacyUser

Thanks for the replies so far.

I knew there would be some who would just suggest I propose myself. I know this is 2019 and that some women do this now, however aside from the fact that I would prefer him to be the one to propose, I genuinely think he'd be a little embarrassed if I did this (bruising his male ego!).

@PARlance, we have discussed having children already. It's not something we'd plan to do until we have our own home though, so I don't feel there's any point pushing this issue any further right now.

@Vox Nihili, I suppose I do feel our life is "provisional and unofficial" atm. I don't feel cohabitating in rented accommodation is a very big commitment these days.

Yes, we've talked about getting a house, but we won't be in a position to get the ball rolling until later in the year and I've heard horror stories of how long the whole process can take (if even successful). Whereas getting married seems much more straight forward in comparison. Neither of us would be keen on a big white wedding, so a small low key event shouldn't take too much time or money to organise. I suppose I just feel like why are we bothering to wait? It just feels right to me.

My partner is generally very laid back though, so maybe he is just happy with the status quo. How do I move our relationship along though without pressuring him? I really don't want to pressure him, but he's the type of person who could wait 10 years to propose otherwise. I certainly don't want to let my feelings fester for that long!

miezekatze

I don't think there's any need for a proper proposal (I didn't get one either). Whenever you talk about the future again, just ask him if he's thought any more about getting married, and if he has any ideas of when/how. That's how we got the ball rolling (we were together much longer though) and I think we were married about a year or so later. I don't think he would have done a romantic proposal anyway, it's just not his style. He did give me a nice engagement ring a few months before the wedding, but we already had set the date at that point.

PARlance

Just out of curiosity, you said you're both "approaching" mid-30's!
What age is that? You're 31 or 32 (and eager to "get going"), I'm guessing? Be honest if you answer

I honestly don't think you've much to be worrying about. You don't want kids before a house and you don't intended to start that process until late in the year.

I would be laid back like your OH and we went House -> Marriage -> Kids route. Buying a house was the biggest commitment in my mind, because once we did that I knew that I would be proposing afterwards. He's probably the same. You're eager to get the proposal in first but he's already acknowledged that it will be on the cards, I wouldn't get too hung up on it.

.......

Cant you just tell him that if you are going to be buying a house together and planning children that you would prefer to be married?

Honestly, in Ireland its a complete no brainer to get married to a person you have children and property with.

It affects tax matters, inheritance rights and more importantly - next of kin for medical issues. This seems like an abstract thought when you are young and healthy but do you want your parents making decisions on your behalf in the event of a disaster?

I know someone who never married her partner and then he became ill and his ex wife in the UK who he had never gotten around to divorcing was the person who had the legal right to ask for the machines to be turned off because my pal was a legal stranger to him.

In addition to this, you will be treated as married by social welfare regardless of legal status so they will refuse you claims based on means test once you live together, but the the revenue commissioners will not so no tax advantages.

zedhead

PARlance wrote: »

I would be laid back like your OH and we went House -> Marriage -> Kids route. Buying a house was the biggest commitment in my mind, because once we did that I knew that I would be proposing afterwards. He's probably the same. You're eager to get the proposal in first but he's already acknowledged that it will be on the cards, I wouldn't get too hung up on it.

We did it this way too. For us the house was the bigger commitment, and unless you mean just a registry office with no celebration/meal/photos/engagement rin etc there are still costs involved in getting married. We are doing low key small wedding now and I am still a bit shocked by how quickly costs for that add up. If we hadn't bought the house there is no way I would be taking any of the savings for our deposit etc out for a wedding.

We discussed it a lot over the years we were together before we got engaged. Some serious chats about timelines and the order we wanted to do things - we both agreed house came first but that if we were to have kids we would like to be married first. Some a bit more frivalous and jokey about what our wedding would be like (choosing first dance songs, seeing a stupid wedding trend and joking that we would have to have it). Despite all this he still managed to surprise me with a proposal. If I am being honest I had been expecting it for a while - but i was not expecting it that day if that makes sense.

So talking about it doesn't mean putting pressure on him. Ask him about what order he thinks he would like to do things in. Or if its important for you that you would like to be married before the house then maybe mention that and ask what he thinks. It's not an ultimatum, its a discussion and aligning expectations. Its normal to put a bit of a shape on your future as a couple - especially when it comes to things like this that need planning. So agreeing between yourselves rough timelines is fairly normal.

PARlance

....... wrote: »

Cant you just tell him that if you are going to be buying a house together and planning children that you would prefer to be married?

Honestly, in Ireland its a complete no brainer to get married to a person you have children and property with.

It affects tax matters, inheritance rights and more importantly - next of kin for medical issues. This seems like an abstract thought when you are young and healthy but do you want your parents making decisions on your behalf in the event of a disaster?

I know someone who never married her partner and then he became ill and his ex wife in the UK who he had never gotten around to divorcing was the person who had the legal right to ask for the machines to be turned off because my pal was a legal stranger to him.

In addition to this, you will be treated as married by social welfare regardless of legal status so they will refuse you claims based on means test once you live together, but the the revenue commissioners will not so no tax advantages.

It was him that brought up marriage during a discussion about house and children... he said he supposed marriage would also come into it. I took it that he's cool with it and he has factored it in.

Marriage doesn't have an impact on purchasing a house iirc and a high % of kids are born to unmarried parents. It's becoming less and less of a deal.

Your example of a woman living with a married man (legally) who hadn't divorced isn't highly relevant to the OP's situation tbh.

Shybride2016

Just my 2c - talk talk talk!

IMO finances aside you can get married or buy a house at any time - if you want to have children together, there’s a time limit. Ok you’re both early thirties so work your timeline together from now - how many children would you like to have? How many years of an age-gap apart would you like them to be (btw all these plans can be thrown out the window once you start trying as I’m sure you know!).

From my own POV, I was never fussed about being married before kids. If you’re living together then you’re committed, even more so if you’ve bought a house together. I always wanted kids so it was always something spoken about in my relationship, and I was very clear about timelines etc - some men never give this any thought and are baffled why it’s so important to women. When we spoke about timelines etc, we had a clearer idea of a “plan” which of course didn’t quite work out as we’d hoped but we’re now sort of where we wanted to be way back when we started planning so it did work out in its own way thankfully.

If marriage is important to you before kids, personally I’d get moving on setting a date together and looking for a house. Does he understand how important it is to you to be married before you start a family? Committing to a Marriage is very different to planning a wedding day so make sure you’re both on the same page in the plans for the celebrations as well as general life plans.

Best of luck!

Edited to add - even if you discuss wanting to get married, the proposal will still be special and a surprise so don’t think of it as a non-romantic event!

Dr Turk Turkelton

Op,I would imagine if he has it planned it will happen on the big holiday later in the year.
I proposed to my now wife in the Maldives as we were talking about having children so said we're would have one last big holiday before they came along.
Is he thinking that way?

Lia_lia

I've been with my partner 7 years and we are not engaged or married. It's not something we're too bothered about though and we have discussed getting married in the future. We will probably just decide on a date to get married together. Not really fussed on "getting engaged" but I guess everyone is different. We also have a baby on the way and don't own a house. We do have a deposit and will luckily get a mortgage easily but happy where we are renting for now. I guess we've just done things backwards.

I'd talk to your partner about it and let him know how important it is to you. Especially if you plan on having kids and you are approaching mid thirties. Buying a house and planning a wedding can take a few years, best to start trying for children when you are younger. We made a plan to start trying before I turned 30 as we didn't want to wait till we were older as we hear of so many people these days with fertility problems. Good luck!

jlm29

PARlance wrote: »

Your example of a woman living with a married man (legally) who hadn't divorced isn't highly relevant to the OP's situation tbh.

It is relevant though, to point out that she wouldn’t have any rights as NOK, if anything happened to him, regardless of how many houses or children they have. I think that’s what that post was about. He might have an ex wife waiting in the wings, but if they co-own a house and he suddenly dies, then there’s probably tax implications if she inherits half of it. And if he’s in hospital and needs important decisions made, she has no legal right to be making decisions either

Ursus Horribilis

Not being married can have legal implications. And you'd wonder why you wouldn't just go make things official if you're going down the route of buying houses and having babies. I sometimes wonder do people balk at tying the knot because it's that one final door slamming on their singlehood? It's not just a piece of paper or an expensive day out.

Idle Passerby

There was no proposal on either side between myself and my husband. We got to the "where is this going" stage of the relationship and agreed we'ed like to eventually get married. When we moved in together we had a chat about when we saw it happening and a few weeks later started making plans. Neither of us had to do any asking, there was no ring or big public announcement. I never once referred to him as my fiance. We just told people they were invited to our wedding. Simple. It doesn't have to be a big hoo-hah.

PARlance

jlm29 wrote: »

It is relevant though, to point out that she wouldn’t have any rights as NOK, if anything happened to him, regardless of how many houses or children they have. I think that’s what that post was about. He might have an ex wife waiting in the wings, but if they co-own a house and he suddenly dies, then there’s probably tax implications if she inherits half of it. And if he’s in hospital and needs important decisions made, she has no legal right to be making decisions either

Fair bit of misinformation there:

We bought unmarried, contract as joint tenants iirc. If either of us had died, our 50% would transfer over. Also had/have insurance to cover same.

In probate law there are no legally defined terms for common law spouse or next-of-kin, yet the belief is that an unmarried cohabiting partner is the next-of-kin and entitled to receive your estate on your death if you haven't written a will.

Being married is obviously better but you aren't exactly taking a huge gamble whilst cohabiting. I'm no legal expert but more and more people are buying unmarried (1 in 4 couples), the law changes to reflect these trends. It should all be discussed with a solicitor obviously which is fairly standard.

.......

PARlance wrote: »

Your example of a woman living with a married man (legally) who hadn't divorced isn't highly relevant to the OP's situation tbh.

I gave a real world example of someone I knew.

However, it could just as easily been his parents or a sibling who was given the NOK rights in a hospital.

The point that you seem to have missed is that the cohabiting partner is a legal stranger.

.......

PARlance wrote: »

Being married is obviously better but you aren't exactly taking a huge gamble whilst cohabiting. I'm no legal expert but more and more people are buying unmarried (1 in 4 couples), the law changes to reflect these trends. It should all be discussed with a solicitor obviously which is fairly standard.

I can 100% guarantee you that if you go to a solicitor to discuss this and ask how best for both parties to protect themselves cohabiting with children in a co owned property that the solicitor will advise them the best protection legally is for them to get married.

Source - thats what my solicitor told me.

LolaJJ

Hey OP

When you talk about kids maybe mention how your family might react to kids outside of marriage. I only say this because I said this in a similar discusison with my SO and it put the topic on the table for discussion.

If he is like my boyfriend then he is practically minded so considers age, finances, saving for and buying a house, a wedding is a thing that will 100% happen when all of the other more important boxes are checked off or planned for

jlm29

PARlance wrote: »

Fair bit of misinformation there:

We bought unmarried, contract as joint tenants iirc. If either of us had died, our 50% would transfer over. Also had/have insurance to cover same.

In probate law there are no legally defined terms for common law spouse or next-of-kin, yet the belief is that an unmarried cohabiting partner is the next-of-kin and entitled to receive your estate on your death if you haven't written a will.

Being married is obviously better but you aren't exactly taking a huge gamble whilst cohabiting. I'm no legal expert but more and more people are buying unmarried (1 in 4 couples), the law changes to reflect these trends. It should all be discussed with a solicitor obviously which is fairly standard.

Fair enough, I’m not positive re CGT on jointly owned assets, but for any other assets revenue will treat them as strangers. Probate law might, to some degree, recognise cohabitation, but revenue doesn’t, and neither Is it recognised for medical issues.

SozBbz

I feel for you OP.

I think a lot of (well meaning) posters here are being a bit dismissive. I have been in a similar situation and my thoughts were along the lines of your own.

I wanted to be married. I didn't want a flash-mob proposal or a wedding for 300 of my *closest* friends but I did want to get married. Together 5 years at the time, living in a property owned by me. I was kind of annoyed that I'd put in 5 years but the commitment was not where I wanted it to be. Not that I thought he was messing me around, but on paper we were legally strangers. The feminist in me wanted to just say "whats the problem" but at the same time, in my heart of hearts I wanted it to come from him, and not from a place of pressure. I wanted him to want to marry me, and not just because he felt he had to.

Its genuinely so difficult. Ultimately I did tell him. My OH is very laid back and in hindsight i know he would have let it drift indefinitely. He's like this in lots of aspects of his life, I'm much more the do'er in our relationship. So one evening the subject of property came up and that perhaps we could buy together. I just told him that I'd like that too, but not without being married first, to which he said ok. Basically I marked his card but want too strong about it. Few months passed and nothing, so the subject of property came up again and I basically refused to discuss it future. I told him "you know where I stand, the ball is in your court". I also said that I didn't want to be an old lady in a white dress (32 at the time) and I wouldn't be patient indefinitely.

You have to speak up for yourself and you have to tell him what you want. He doesn't have to agree to it, but if he's not going to and its important to you, then you're better off knowing this sooner rather than later. Personally I'd tell him that to proceed in the other areas, you see marriage as the first step. This is not the same as an ultimatum, but as a grown woman you've a right to ask about your own future. Assuming he agrees (otherwise you've a bigger problem frankly) tell him that you'll leave it with him (to facilitate a proposal).

kg703

Myself and my partner were together 9 years before he proposed.

Let it happen naturally because it is an exciting and romantic thing especially as you aren’t buying or having kids yet. Why are you in a hurry?! Let him do it in his own time.

Not sure how being told ‘I want you to go and propose to me’ is really any different than you proposing yourself. Telling him I want to be married soon is pressure. Maybe he has the ring already and is waiting for some occasion or as you pointed out after his siblings wedding. There is nothing wrong with that

PARlance

....... wrote: »

I can 100% guarantee you that if you go to a solicitor to discuss this and ask how best for both parties to protect themselves cohabiting with children in a co owned property that the solicitor will advise them the best protection legally is for them to get married.

Source - thats what my solicitor told me.

I agree that a solicitor would advise that marriage is best but my point is that the same solicitor deal with unmarried couples all the time and there are contracts out there to give similar rights/protection as married couples.

Source - we purchased unmarried and our solicitor drew up a contract for us.

Stories about someone living with a married man and not having next of kin rights have nothing to do with the OP. It's scaremongering, a cohabiting couple can have NOK rights.

simongurnick

This sounds more like a business deal

Xterminator

Hi Op

he is clearly committed to the relationship.

Now if you have a preferred sequence in which things should happen you really need to be clear about that and not beat about the bush.

one thing that struck me was you said

"I’m just impatient to officially start our lives together," i

you your together 4 years and living together for 2. So why have you not started your lives together in your mind?

You clearly have by most objective standards started you life together. I suspect your life objectives are closely tied with this sentiment. But if you don't let him know what your objectives are, like the fact you would rather be married before getting a house, then you better hope he is psychic.

Surely you can see that the cost of a wedding is going to delay the acquisition of a house. So one must be prioritised over the other.

.......

PARlance wrote: »

Stories about someone living with a married man and not having next of kin rights have nothing to do with the OP. It's scaremongering, a cohabiting couple can have NOK rights.

Once again you have spectactularly missed the point. If it hadnt been his wife it would have been one of his children or his mother who the hospital would have listened to. But not his entirely unrelated cohabitation partner.

NOK actually means your nearest blood relative. It has no legal standing in Irish law. In fact, there is no legislation that covers the rights for people to make medical decisions.

However, in practice, Irish doctors will look to the person with the strongest legal relationship to a person for end of life care decisions, so as to avoid being sued by a legal relative in the event that they switch off the machines and someone legally related steps up. These are not decisions taken lightly. And a cohabitation partner does not have a strong legal relationship to a person, certainly not compared to a parent, a child or a spouse.

Now Im sorry if you dont like this, or consider it "scaremongering" to point it out and I sincerely hope you never find yourself in the position in a hospital that you are not the person the medical team are taking instruction from over your loved one. But it is the current situation, whether you like it or not.

This link covers some of the above:
http://www.irishhealth.com/article.html?id=3475

We actually saw an example of the above play out when that poor woman was being kept alive because her fetus still had a heartbeat. Her unborn childs father had no rights to make any medical decisions, it was her parents who were considering making a legal appeal. Leaving aside the 8th amendment issue - it was because she wasnt married that the people who could take the legal appeal were her parents and not her unborn childs father.

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/health/clinically-dead-pregnant-woman-being-kept-alive-by-hospital-30845660.html

Incidentally, getting a solicitor to "draw up contracts" to protect cohabiting partners means there is a legal contract right? So why not just get married? How is it different except by name? Seems like a dumb idea to me when the mechanism to protect yourself and your other half is there for much cheaper than a solicitor "drawing up contracts" - contracts that cannot overrule family law in Ireland.

LegacyUser

Thanks again for all the replies! It seems to have turned into a bit of a debate about the merits of marriage and the legalities of it all. Without getting into all of that though, the bottom line is that I WANT to get married, but I’m not sure if he’s ready yet. So really I’m asking more about the best way to communicate with my partner on this without pressuring him – so I’d really appreciate if people could keep the advice coming on that end of things

Some people seem to be under the impression that we’re in our very early 30s, but actually we’re both turning 34 very soon. So suffice to say, the biological clock is ticking. I’m not broody at all tbh, but I AM concerned about the timelines. I would definitely want to have a home before trying for kids (just makes sense I think) and would want to be married before having kids (for the legal reasons mainly). In theory I don’t think we need to get married before we buy a house, but I do think it will impact on the overall timeline when it comes to having kids. If we wait to get the house first, then have to wait again to get married… then I’ll easily be 36/37 before we even start trying for kids. I think by getting married first*, we’ll be able to tighten the timelines a bit and have a better chance of actually having children. I know that all sounds very practical, but I think I need to be practical to a certain extent given my age.

Obviously men don’t have the same concerns about their fertility. Unfortunately I spent most of my 20s with someone who turned out to be horribly wrong for me. We often spoke about getting married and buying a house (turned out while I’d been saving, he’d been spending), but right around the time I thought he was going to propose (he told me he was saving for a ring), he decided to dump me instead. Looking back on it, it was a very very lucky escape for many reasons. But I am very conscious that I don’t want to waste years with another man who is committed for now, but hasn’t taken any action to commit to a long term future together. So far I’ve been the one to drive the conversations about getting a house and having kids. So I’d feel like he was more genuinely committed if any further talk of marriage was initiated by him (whether a surprise romantic proposal or boring legal conversation and mutual decision making!). Maybe my own securities are at play here a bit, but at 34 years old and having been in a loving relationship for 4 years, I don’t think it’s unreasonable to expect marriage to be on the cards in the near future.

If he’s going to end up like my ex, leaving as soon as a serious commitment is on the cards, I’d rather know sooner rather than later so that I’m not wasting any more time. Realistically I don’t actually think he’s going to leave me, but until he makes a serious commitment, how am I supposed to know that for sure. Even if we get to the point where we’re in the process of buying a house, this can take a long time and he could pull out before all the documents are signed, keys received etc. Actions speak louder than words!

I think most of you are right though. I’m just going to have to talk about it with him I can always bring up the topic of houses/children again. I think I need to make it clear that if we’re buying a house, I assume marriage is on the cards soon too and that it’s important to me that we’re married if/when kids come along. I can always leave the ball in his court in terms of an actual proposal. If anyone has any more advice how to approach this without making him feel pressured though, please keep it coming!

*we really wouldn’t spend a lot of money on a wedding. Something like a registry office and a meal with a very small group of our nearest and dearest would be grand! I want to get married, not have a big wedding. Certainly not if it’s going to impact on our ability getting a house. I want to get married, but I have my priorities straight financially.

.......

GettingImpatient wrote: »

In theory I don’t think we need to get married before we buy a house, but I do think it will impact on the overall timeline when it comes to having kids. If we wait to get the house first, then have to wait again to get married…

Why do you have to wait to get married after getting a house?

You are taking a huge risk on trying to conceive for the first time after 35. If you want to have children and you are 34 you should start trying for children immediately.

Your fertility will fall off a cliff after 35 with the chances of disability going up at the same time.

Its not realistic to wait til 37. I know you see celebrities at this craic but they are all using fertility treatment/ivf/surrogates.

You should go and have a chat with your GP regarding your fertility and chances of conception/healthy birth after 35.

All the other timelines have flexibility - your fertility doesnt.

LegacyUser

....... wrote: »

Why do you have to wait to get married after getting a house?

What I mean is, if I WAIT FOR HIM to propose after we have the house sorted. Others have suggested that he might think that the house is a big enough commitment for now and will propose afterwards. But I don't think it's wise to wait that long given our age. Even if we have a very small ceremony/celebration, it will still take time to get everything booked/organised. I think it make more sense to organise a house and wedding around the same time. Then we'll have everything sorted to start trying to have kids without waiting longer than necessary.

....... wrote: »

All the other timelines have flexibility - your fertility doesnt.

I am WELL aware of this and don't need any further scaremongering please. I am realist and this is a part of the reason I want to get things moving without waiting too long.

I anticipate it being very very difficult to bring this up without pressuring him though and sounding like I just want to use him as a sperm donor before it's too late :P (obviously that's not the case!!) Honestly I've always been on the fence about having kids. I'm not a baby person at all, but I do like children and we both decided that ideally we would like to try for a family. If that doesn't happen I can live with it, but I don't want it not to happen just because we left it too late.

So how do I talk about without it sounding like "GAH, my biological clock is ticking, we need to start having babies before it's too late, so we better get a house and marriage certificate sorted NOOOOOOW"... I feel this may freak him out a little bit :P

.......

GettingImpatient wrote: »

I am WELL aware of this and don't need any further scaremongering please. I am realist and this is a part of the reason I want to get things moving without waiting too long.

You need to lose the mindset that dealing with reality is scaremongering. Its not going to help you.

GettingImpatient wrote: »

So how do I talk about without it sounding like "GAH, my biological clock is ticking, we need to start having babies before it's too late, so we better get a house and marriage certificate sorted NOOOOOOW"... I feel this may freak him out a little bit :P

I think you should talk about it with exactly the above urgency - because it is an urgent matter!!

I mean, if you wait, and if it turns out that he DOESNT follow through on a proposal, or having kids - then you will find yourself in your late 30s and there are no more chances for children.

If it freaks him out so be it - but better for him to understand the reality of the situation?

Is it that you are worried he will scarper if you tell him you have to get cracking on the babies ASAP?

Because from an objective point of view - thats just you playing Waitey Katey when you dont have time to be waiting around.

Why must it be on HIS time scale rather than yours?

zedhead

GettingImpatient wrote: »

I am WELL aware of this and don't need any further scaremongering please. I am realist and this is a part of the reason I want to get things moving without waiting too long.

I anticipate it being very very difficult to bring this up without pressuring him though and sounding like I just want to use him as a sperm donor before it's too late :P (obviously that's not the case!!) Honestly I've always been on the fence about having kids. I'm not a baby person at all, but I do like children and we both decided that ideally we would like to try for a family. If that doesn't happen I can live with it, but I don't want it not to happen just because we left it too late.

So how do I talk about without it sounding like "GAH, my biological clock is ticking, we need to start having babies before it's too late, so we better get a house and marriage certificate sorted NOOOOOOW"... I feel this may freak him out a little bit :P

You seem really hung up on the idea that talking about the future automatically means pressuring him. Why does he get to decide everything? Maybe he is waiting for you to provide some input?

For me it just felt totally normal and nature to discuss these things with my partner. If anything about the future came out to discuss it in a bigger picture kind of thing. Like when we started talking about saving for a house, we had to discuss what type of deposit we would need and what sort of time frame each of us felt would be realistic to be in a position to buy (based on saving ability and income etc). That led onto general timelines and rough shape of what the future would look like.

When kids come up in coversation in general, how does that conversation go? Have you ever asked him what time he had thought you might consider starting to try. How does that fit into the house plans - then is the perfect point to mention that its important for you to be married first and that maybe you could discuss moving up the timelines due to biology etc.

You need to look at all these decisions as joint decisions if you are serious about building a life together. You are leaving it all on him to decide the timeline of your life because you are afraid of being seen to pressure him.

LegacyUser

OP sorry if this sounds harsh but to me you're coming across as quite insecure in your relationship. Is this how you feel? Why do you feel the need to be married before having children?
I'm in a similar situation to you although I'm 35. We've discussed trying for a baby and purchasing a house in about a year. Marriage doesn't really come in to this decision because I feel secure in our relationship. Don't get me wrong, I would love to marry him, but I don't see it as the big deal that you do.
You say you marriage is a sign of officially starting your lives together and him showing his commitment but after 4 years id have thought this should be the case anyway.

zapper55

OP I think you do need tod ask him where he sees this going again, sounds like he's too easy going for timelines to occur to him.

....... wrote: »

You need to lose the mindset that dealing with reality is scaremongering. Its not going to help you

Thats a patronising thing to say.

By the way the percentage of women who become pregnant within a year is approximately:

20 to 24: 47 per cent
25 to 29: 45 per cent
30 to 34: 41 per cent
35 to 39: 34 per cent
40 to 44: 20 per cent
over 45: 4 per cent

Saying that fertility falls off a cliff after 35 is scaremongering. I know many women that have gotten pregnant without fertility treatment after 35.

I'm saying this not so much for the OPs benefit, who seems to realise the above, but more from other women reading it.

Lia_lia

I think the issue with starting to try for a baby when older (over 35) is that you have less time for fertility treatment to be successful if it’s needed. That’s what I’d be more worried about. There’s a big difference between a 30 year old that’s been trying for 3 years needing IVF compared to a 37 year old that’s been trying for 3 years needing IVF.

Now, you more than likely will be fine and not need fertility treatment, OP. But I know a lot of people that had trouble conceiving and wish they started younger so that’s why we started trying in our 20’s rather than getting married or buying a house. You can buy a house and get married whenever pretty much. The same can’t be said for getting pregnant.

.......

zapper55 wrote: »

By the way the percentage of women who become pregnant within a year is approximately:

20 to 24: 47 per cent
25 to 29: 45 per cent
30 to 34: 41 per cent
35 to 39: 34 per cent
40 to 44: 20 per cent
over 45: 4 per cent

Saying that fertility falls off a cliff after 35 is scaremongering. I know many women that have gotten pregnant without fertility treatment after 35.

Can you provide a source for these stats please - are these the percentages for women who get pregnant for the FIRST time?

Many women do get pregnant after 35, but its much harder, and for the first time, its harder again.

The OP has never been pregnant. So her odds are lower than a woman who has been.

The chances of miscarriage also rise with age.

witchgirl26

OP honestly you just need to bite the bullet and have the discussion with your partner that you'd like to be married before having kids. It's not easy but hey if you've been together 4 years, while it may start awkward, you should be able to be honest.

I had that chat with my OH. We were in the process of buying a house together and while I knew he loved me and saw a future for us, marriage was never as important for him I think than for me. I told him that I'd prefer to be married having kids but I at least wanted to be engaged. It gave him a bit of food for thought but he did appreciate that I'd be honest and he was upset that I'd been hiding that from him because of fears about having the conversation. He didn't want me to feel like that.

In terms of legal rights over children - there has been some changes in that regards for unmarried couples btw. We're not married yet and neither was my sister when she had her kids 4 years ago. Back then, the father would have to apply for guardianship rights even if named on the birth cert for his children. However now if the father is present and signs the birth cert himself, the guardianship rights are automatic. Not ideal but does provide a level of comfort.

LolaJJ

Honestly, I've started to get angry with the amount of scaremongering surrounding womens age and having children. Up until recently I was having my own freak-outs about waiting due to the length of our relationship and my age, the pressure I was feeling was due to all my friends having babies and being at that stage of life, and me, not being there just yet. Everything I was reading was telling me I had to start trying and then I actually spoke to my friends who are all aged 37 - 42 and all of them have conceived wiithin 6 months bar one who on her first (age 29) spent a year trying. Her last (aged 36) was a complete surprise and they weren't trying at all. She actually said "we probably only had sex twice in 6 months"

I see both sides of the arguement but if all the other things - engagment, marriage, house etc aren't the way you feel you want them to be then it makes sense to wait and maybe you won't have any issue at all.

Obviously if the OP was 45 I wouldn't be saying this but in general it's good for your health and fertility to not be stressed.

witchgirl26

LolaJJ wrote: »

Honestly, I've started to get angry with the amount of scaremongering surrounding womens age and having children. Up until recently I was having my own freak-outs about waiting due to the length of our relationship and my age, the pressure I was feeling was due to all my friends having babies and being at that stage of life, and me, not being there just yet. Everything I was reading was telling me I had to start trying and then I actually spoke to my friends who are all aged 37 - 42 and all of them have conceived wiithin 6 months bar one who on her first (age 29) spent a year trying. Her last (aged 36) was a complete surprise and they weren't trying at all. She actually said "we probably only had sex twice in 6 months"

I see both sides of the arguement but if all the other things - engagment, marriage, house etc aren't the way you feel you want them to be then it makes sense to wait and maybe you won't have any issue at all.

Obviously if the OP was 45 I wouldn't be saying this but in general it's good for your health and fertility to not be stressed.

While I agree with you to an extent about the level of scaremongering about fertility, it is based on fact. The further past 35 you go, the harder it is to conceive for the first time. That's just medical fact.

I think the biggest issue here with the OP is that they haven't even had the conversation about when to have children. I mean if they'd both agreed to wait or had a timeline in mind, then that's one thing but the OP doesn't even have that.

I wholeheartedly think that both partners have to be ready to have a child before actually trying. I was the one in my relationship "holding things up" so to speak as I wasn't there yet. But there were regular conversations and discussions as we're both in our early/mid-30's so aware that time was not completely on our side.

qwerty13

I think you’re being unfair to him. You have all these ‘wants’ on your head, along with a timeline that you also ‘want’ - but you’re not communicating any of that to him because ‘he should know’ - and then getting pee’d off when he doesn’t seem to be able to read your mind!!! It’s like you’re testing him, without telling him what the test is, what the rules are, or when the test begins.

Even the title of this thread is unreasonable. Maybe what he wants is to stay as things are for the next 15 years. And he’s not wrong to want that. Nor are you wrong to want what you want. But to expect him to magically want the same things as you, at exactly the same time, and not communicate about that?!? That’s bonkers.

Sleepy

You mentioned that you've a big holiday coming up.
You've discussed marriage in relation to the house and any future kids.

Have you considered he may be planning to propose on the holiday? I wouldn't go with the expectation that it will happen (it'll ruin your holiday if you do) but I'd at least wait until after before discussing it further.

valoren

“so marriage would probably come into this at some point too” and I agreed.

You are all but "engaged" without the formality as it is I think i.e. He knows the logical progression is to get married and he has indicated in his own way it will be inevitable in his own mind.

You mention you have a big holiday coming up, I would hazard a guess that he is planning on proposing then i.e. during the holiday, say while walking on the beach or during a romantic meal. He might be stalling as he wants to do it right (or get an engagement ring, which can be ridiculously expensive).

I would recommend some patience until then, to give him some leeway to plan it and you should only become concerned if after this holiday there seems to be no inkling from him that he will propose. I made the decision (in my own head) to propose to my wife in February 2013. We had a trip to New York planned for the following September and I waited until then to propose. I'd wait until the holiday and then make a determination about his commitment to marriage.