Out sick in probationary period

tatsplat

Been in a new job about 5 weeks and my little one has come down with tonsillitis. Was puking all day til I took him into Midoc and got a diagnosis. I have a note from doctor for myself to excuse myself from work. However, my boss was not happy at all about it. Said they rarely had people off sick, I was in tears on the phone in the end.

Is there any way he can make this an issue for me? Like I said I have a doctor's note.

Samuel T. Cogley

I'm afraid while a doctors note explains an absence it doesn't excuse it. You're on probation and they may simply decide you're not working out.

Sorry I don't have better news.

pwurple

Have you any family support at all who can look after him fort he few hours you are at work? A friend, anyone?

It's not you that's sick... My work doesn't consider someone else's sickness to be grounds to be out either to be honest.

lawred2

tatsplat wrote: »

Been in a new job about 5 weeks and my little one has come down with tonsillitis. Was puking all day til I took him into Midoc and got a diagnosis. I have a note from doctor for myself to excuse myself from work. However, my boss was not happy at all about it. Said they rarely had people off sick and that complaints had been made by the students (I am a language teacher) I was in tears on the phone in the end.

Is there any way he can make this an issue for me? Like I said I have a doctor's note.

Your boss sounds like a total to$$er

_Brian

So, your not actually out sick, your kid is.

You should be on Force Majeure rather than on sick leave.

In your probation is a bad time to be off if it’s inconvenient for your employer it may go badly for your being kept on.

There is nothing can be done really, your priority is family, all you can do is get back soon as possible. You won’t get many days FM so you need to be working alternative arrangements and keeping employer informed about your return.

lawred2

pwurple wrote: »

Have you any family support at all who can look after him fort he few hours you are at work? A friend, anyone?

It's not you that's sick... My work doesn't consider someone else's sickness to be grounds to be out either to be honest.

well that's a nonsense thing to say - and is a poor reflection on your employer and your own expectations as an employee.

It's not 'someone else' - it that person's child. You are legally entitled to time off to care for a dependent. It may go unpaid but what your employer considers 'grounds to be out' is irrelevant. I'd suggest seeking a better employer personally.

Plumbthedepths

tatsplat wrote:

Is there any way he can make this an issue for me? Like I said I have a doctor's note.

Dismiss you during your probation, saying you are not suitable. The note relates to your child not you. You are there 5 weeks looks bad tbh, I understand your child comes first for you but your employer has no attachment to your child.

Sinus pain

If I were you I’d be looking for somewhere a bit more family friendly. While I understand jobs in your area probably aren’t ten a penny your child is your main concern. My own dc had tonsillitis recently and there is no way I would leave him but I was able to use flexi time and working from home to cover it. Hell or high water wouldn’t have stopped me from staying at home to be there for him.

Plumbthedepths

_Brian wrote:

You should be on Force Majeure rather than on sick leave.

Force majeure is 3 days in a five year period.

is_that_so

tatsplat wrote: »

Been in a new job about 5 weeks and my little one has come down with tonsillitis. Was puking all day til I took him into Midoc and got a diagnosis. I have a note from doctor for myself to excuse myself from work. However, my boss was not happy at all about it. Said they rarely had people off sick and that complaints had been made by the students (I am a language teacher) I was in tears on the phone in the end.

Is there any way he can make this an issue for me? Like I said I have a doctor's note.

If you're not in the state school sector then you're probably dealing with someone more interested in costs. It might just be your boss' reaction to your absence and that nothing can be done about it but the probation period doesn't protect you from very much. As for students could well be boss asking them and students do have notions about their sense of judgement. All I'd say is see how it goes but at the very least consider other possible options.

lawred2

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

Force majeure is 3 days in a five year period.

no it's not

Force majeure leave cannot exceed three days in any period of twelve months or exceed five days in a period of thirty six consecutive months.

However for FM to apply - you need 12 months consecutive service. Doesn't apply to the OP.

OP is legally entitled to unpaid leave to care for a dependent.

But it's clear that their employer will use any old reason to dismiss during probation. Fairly sure this particular bit of unplanned leave won't be mentioned as a reason for dismissal.

OP - when did you inform your employer that you wouldn't be in?

tatsplat

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

Dismiss you during your probation, saying you are not suitable. The note relates to your child not you. You are there 5 weeks looks bad tbh, I understand your child comes first for you but your employer has no attachment to your child.

Actually the note says that I have gastric flu, I didn't explain very well

tatsplat

lawred2 wrote: »

no it's not



However for FM to apply - you need 12 months consecutive service. Doesn't apply to the OP.

OP is legally entitled to unpaid leave to care for a dependent.

But it's clear that their employer will use any old reason to dismiss during probation. Fairly sure this particular bit of unplanned leave won't be mentioned as a reason for dismissal.

OP - when did you inform your employer that you wouldn't be in?

As per my contract, before 8.30am

lawred2

lawred2 wrote: »

well that's a nonsense thing to say - and is a poor reflection on your employer and your own expectations as an employee.

It's not 'someone else' - it that person's child. You are legally entitled to time off to care for a dependent. It may go unpaid but what your employer considers 'grounds to be out' is irrelevant. I'd suggest seeking a better employer personally.

Unfortunately this is all nonsense too.

Sick leave occurs when the employee is unable to carry out their duties due to illness or incapacitation, it does not extend to the illness of anyone other than the employee themselves. Though employers should be sympathetic to illnesses which effect employees children, leave is not a legal entitlement.

Which time off which you are legally entitled to are you referring to? FM has very specific criteria which are extremely relevant.

Samuel T. Cogley

tatsplat wrote: »

Actually the note says that I have gastric flu, I didn't explain very well

It doesn't really change the situation anyway, other than if you don't have flu and you let slip there's then a dishonesty element.

lawred2

lawred2 wrote: »

no it's not



However for FM to apply - you need 12 months consecutive service. Doesn't apply to the OP.

OP is legally entitled to unpaid leave to care for a dependent.
?

What leave which is a legal entitlement are you referring to?

is_that_so

tatsplat wrote: »

Actually the note says that I have gastric flu, I didn't explain very well

That should cover the absence but there seem to be other things at work there.

killanena

There is parental leave for situations like your child being sick etc but while on probation you can be let go for any reason they see fit really.

Mind you child and focus on helping them get better, worry about the job after.

My condolences, horrible position to find yourself in andi hope the little one feels better soon.

tatsplat

tatsplat wrote: »

Actually the note says that I have gastric flu, I didn't explain very well

So, your doctor lied?

is_that_so

Deleted User wrote: »

So, your doctor lied?

A lot more common than you imagine! Hard to find too much fault with doctor in this case. It's a very unfortunate occurrence of an illness in the child.

linpoo

tatsplat wrote: »

Actually the note says that I have gastric flu, I didn't explain very well

Once you have a doctors cert they can't say anything. Boss sounds like a b!tch to be honest. Ive been off sick myself when my child was not well.

linpoo

linpoo wrote: »

Once you have a doctors cert they can't say anything. Boss sounds like a b!tch to be honest. Ive been off sick myself when my child was not well.

This is not true. As per STC’s earlier post, a Med Cert explains an absence, it does not excuse it.

lawred2

Dav010 wrote: »

What leave which is a legal entitlement are you referring to?

actually this is the act - reads to me like FM would apply.

13.—(1) An employee shall be entitled to leave with pay from his or her employment, to be known and referred to in this Act as “force majeure leave”, where, for urgent family reasons, owing to an injury to or the illness of a person specified in subsection (2), the immediate presence of the employee at the place where the person is, whether at his or her home or elsewhere, is indispensable.

(2) The persons referred to in subsection (1) are—

(a) a person of whom the employee is the parent or adoptive parent,

(b) the spouse of the employee or a person with whom the employee is living as husband or wife,

(c) a person to whom the employee is in loco parentis,

(d) a brother or sister of the employee,

(e) a parent or grandparent of the employee, and

(f) persons of such other (if any) class or classes as may be prescribed.

(3) When an employee takes force majeure leave, he or she shall, as soon as reasonably practicable thereafter, by notice in the prescribed form given to his or her employer, confirm that he or she has taken such leave and the notice shall specify the dates on which it was taken and contain a statement of the facts entitling the employee to force majeure leave.

(4) Force majeure leave shall consist of one or more days on which, but for the leave, the employee would be working in the employment concerned but shall not exceed 3 days in any period of 12 consecutive months or 5 days in any period of 36 consecutive months.

(5) A day on which an employee is absent from work on force majeure leave in an employment for part only of the period during which he or she is required to work in the employment on that day shall be deemed, for the purposes of subsection (4), to be one day of force majeure leave.

however OP had some falsified cover note from the doctor so not sure what's going on here really..

perhaps knew she'd be better off covering herself against an arsehole boss.

lawred2

Dav010 wrote: »

This is not true. As per STC’s earlier post, a Med Cert explains an absence, it does not excuse it.

so don't ever get sick then?

Mundo7976

tatsplat wrote: »

Actually the note says that I have gastric flu, I didn't explain very well

So you got a doctor to lie for you, maybe your boss can see through you. I wouldn't be happy either if you'd started working for me

Samuel T. Cogley

lawred2 wrote: »

so don't ever get sick then?

On probation it's not a good idea, however unavoidable. Notwithstanding probation the restrictions on rights for the first 12 months means it's not great then either.

_Brian

lawred2 wrote: »

no it's not



However for FM to apply - you need 12 months consecutive service. Doesn't apply to the OP.

OP is legally entitled to unpaid leave to care for a dependent.

But it's clear that their employer will use any old reason to dismiss during probation. Fairly sure this particular bit of unplanned leave won't be mentioned as a reason for dismissal.

OP - when did you inform your employer that you wouldn't be in?

There is no service period for FM
Employers may try that but it’s not in legislation.

tatsplat

lawred2 wrote: »

so don't ever get sick then?

Or don't let your kids get sick. Bearing in mind there's no family here I can leave them with and creche and childminder won't take them when they are sick.

Or just don't get pregnant.

Or don't have sex ever

is_that_so

Mundo7976 wrote: »

So you got a doctor to lie for you, maybe your boss can see through you. I wouldn't be happy either if you'd started working for me

I am not sure the poster would want to work for you, I wouldn't!

lawred2

Samuel T. Cogley wrote: »

On probation it's not a good idea, however unavoidable. Notwithstanding probation the restrictions on rights for the first 12 months means it's not great then either.

Well unless you're pulling a fast one - it not really an 'idea' is it!?

tatsplat

Mundo7976 wrote: »

So you got a doctor to lie for you, maybe your boss can see through you. I wouldn't be happy either if you'd started working for me

Wouldn't want to, if you can't be understanding when my child is unwell 🀷*♀️

lawred2

lawred2 wrote: »

actually this is the act - reads to me like FM would apply.



however OP had some falsified cover note from the doctor so not sure what's going on here really..

Read the criteria for FM, it has very strict rules.

is_that_so

tatsplat wrote: »

Or don't let your kids get sick. Bearing in mind there's no family here I can leave them with and creche and childminder won't take them when they are sick.

Or just don't get pregnant.

Or don't have sex ever

Ok bit of calm. This is the internet and some people's version of helping should be best ignored. I'd also say you've probably got all the useful information you need at this point.

tatsplat

is_that_so wrote: »

Ok bit of calm. This is the internet and some people's version of helping should be best ignored. I'd also say you've probably got all the useful information you need at this point.

Yes, and thank you.

lawred2

Dav010 wrote: »

Read the criteria for FM, it has very strict rules.

Well I've just presented you with the act. Would you care to detail/link/produce these rules please?

linpoo

Mundo7976 wrote: »

So you got a doctor to lie for you, maybe your boss can see through you. I wouldn't be happy either if you'd started working for me

Give her a break. Its hard being a working mother especially when you're child isn't well.

She's looking for advice not criticism

linpoo

Dav010 wrote: »

This is not true. As per STC’s earlier post, a Med Cert explains an absence, it does not excuse it.

Says who? Is he an expert. Are you saying a doctors signed medical note stating someone is not able to work for a certain period of time is not to be trusted?

Gimme A Pound

"Excuse it"?

What kind of psychopath would view someone being sick or their child being sick as something to be excused as if it's misconduct? And tonsilitis!

That said, don't understand why you were so dishonest at the start here OP.

B_ecke_r

linpoo wrote: »

Says who? Is he an expert. Are you saying a doctors signed medical note stating someone is not able to work for a certain period of time is not to be trusted?

evidently not seen as she admitted it's bogus

serious note - no way FM applies.

5 weeks into your employment it is very unfortunate situation to be in,

where would the child be if they weren't sick? creche? minder?

Samuel T. Cogley

linpoo wrote: »

Says who? Is he an expert. Are you saying a doctors signed medical note stating someone is not able to work for a certain period of time is not to be trusted?

They are trusted to explain and absence. You're still in breach of your contract of employment. An employer is within their rights to terminate if sickness becomes an issue, notwithstanding doctors certs.

Mundo7976

tatsplat wrote: »

Wouldn't want to, if you can't be understanding when my child is unwell ��*♀️

Except you told your employer a different story
"Actually the note says that I have gastric flu, I didn't explain very well"

To answer your original question of can the employer do anything, yea they can, you're in probation if they dont see youas a proper fit for the company theyll let you go

tatsplat

Lillianna Microscopic Gnu wrote: »

"Excuse it"?

What kind of psychopath would view someone being sick or their child being sick as something to be excused as if it's misconduct? And tonsilitis!

That said, don't understand why you were so dishonest at the start here OP.

I asked the doctor for a note to say the baby was sick but he said it would not allow me time off work and he would write one in my name instead. Since no creche or childminder will take a sick child and I haven't family that can care for him not sure what else I could have done tbh.

irelandrover

Honestly your story is confusing. You say the child was puking all day. You also say you rang before 8:30 to report yourself as sick.

Did you ring in the morning to say your child was sick and then produce a sick cert for yourself?

lawred2

Lillianna Microscopic Gnu wrote: »

"Excuse it"?

What kind of psychopath would view someone being sick or their child being sick as something to be excused as if it's misconduct? And tonsilitis!

That said, don't understand why you were so dishonest at the start here OP.

well the fact that there are people who see caring for a sick child as something inexcusable might go some way to explain the OP's thought process..

tatsplat

Mundo7976 wrote: »

Except you told your employer a different story
"Actually the note says that I have gastric flu, I didn't explain very well"

To answer your original question of can the employer do anything, yea they can, you're in probation if they dont see youas a proper fit for the company theyll let you go

That's because I asked the doctor for a note to say my child was unwell but he said it would not be accepted by boss to allow me time off and he would write one in my name. Since no creche or childminder will take a child who is ill and I don't have family to care for him not sure what else I was supposed to do. My fault for needing to work but also wanting to be a mother I suppose

lawred2

B_ecke_r wrote: »

evidently not seen as she admitted it's bogus

serious note - no way FM applies.

5 weeks into your employment it is very unfortunate situation to be in,

where would the child be if they weren't sick? creche? minder?

based on what?

B_ecke_r

look you've said you were sick at the end of the day so can't go back now,

keep the head down when you get back and you should be ok, even the hardest employers will alllow you one "strike" on probation.

as long as a patter doesn't emerge you should be ok,

tatsplat

irelandrover wrote: »

Honestly your story is confusing. You say the child was puking all day. You also say you rang before 8:30 to report yourself as sick.

Did you ring in the morning to say your child was sick and then produce a sick cert for yourself?

I rang to say my child was sick as he had thrown up during the night then when he was continuously sick throughout the day and showing signs of dehydration I took him to doctor who produced the sick cert in my name since as he put it when I asked for a note for the baby I would not be allowed time off for him being sick and better to say I was. Further questions your honour?

Plumbthedepths

tatsplat wrote:

I rang to say my child was sick as he had thrown up during the night then when he was continuously sick throughout the day and showing signs of dehydration I took him to doctor who produced the sick cert in my name since as he put it when I asked for a note for the baby I would not be allowed time off for him being sick and better to say I was. Further questions your honour?

So you rang and said your child was sick throwing up through the night, but you produced a note to say YOU were sick? You have shown your employer you are untrustworthy tbh. I'd refresh my CV if I were you.

tatsplat

tatsplat wrote: »

Or don't let your kids get sick. Bearing in mind there's no family here I can leave them with

Husband?

It's a crap situation, but it seems you told your employer you couldn't come to work because your child was sick, and then presented a note to say it was you who were sick? You'd have been better not producing the note.

You might be OK, but your employer is within rights to let you go.

irelandrover

tatsplat wrote: »

I rang to say my child was sick as he had thrown up during the night then when he was continuously sick throughout the day and showing signs of dehydration I took him to doctor who produced the sick cert in my name since as he put it when I asked for a note for the baby I would not be allowed time off for him being sick and better to say I was. Further questions your honour?

I was trying to get your story straight before offering advice. There is a lot of talk of Force Majeure leave in the thread but that is no way useful to you if you were claiming you were sick as then it doesn't apply.