Over 40 going back home

LegacyUser

Id love some advice & thoughts.

Im almost 42 & have been renting for about 20 years now (mostly with a bf but without for the last 3 years). Im paying €1500 per month in rent plus all the bills which I can totally cover but of course Ive no savings.

Due to my age Im thinking I dont want to be renting in my 50s and def not in my 60s (terrifying thought) so my only opportunity to save is to move into my mothers. This would be very difficult. My mum is kinda hard work & I LOVE my own space & my independence. But totally realisticly its the only way I could save. Im fairly sure I could save about 20k within one year & im thinking that would surely be a great motivator.

BUT it would be such tough going. I would feel some shame having to do this at my age.

My mom lives alone & I think she’d appreciate the company & shes in her 70s so she’d appreciate the help around the house & of course I’d contribute & she only has her pension so the extra bit of money would be nice for her.

I have a dog too so it would be quite disruptive for both of us (I’m very close to my dog) but I need to properly provide for us. Plus I do feel vulnerable renting especially with the housing crisis. Getting my own home (finally!) would feel good I’m sure.

Any advice please!

Cash_Q

Great to have a plan in mind, and absolutely no shame in moving home at any age. What other people think is irrelevant, your own long term happiness is most important.

You project 20k savings - will this be enough to get you on the property ladder? Maybe speak to a financial advisor/mortgage broker first. Owing to your age, it is likely that a bank will not give a mortgage of longer that 23/25 years (up to retirement age for you), so the amount you need may mean that repayments will not be within your budget on this length of term. You may need a much larger deposit than 20k.

Ursus Horribilis

If you think you can get enough together to buy a house, then it sounds like a plan. I broke up with my ex when I was in my 30s and my bank balance was on the slender side. I decided to move into a house-share to get the money together to buy my own place. It wasn't something I loved doing, although I shared with a couple of lovely people. I felt a bit of shame about living a bit like a student at 35 when everyone else around me had their own places. But it was worth it in the end and I went on to buy my own place.

Your dog certainly complicates things. If it wasn't for him/her, I'd have suggested a house share rather than moving in with your mum. But I'd guess that finding a place for you and your dog could be a challenge. Living with your mother can work, as long as you can give the pair of you some space. If you can afford to buy something, I think it's a fine plan. I dread to think what's going to happen to all the people who are now trapped in renting hell and how they're going to manage when they retire.

Squall Leonhart

Also, regarding your sums...

You currently pay 1500 a month and have zero savings. If you move home you said you will still be contributing, which means you're not now able to just pocket the full 1500 a month you'd been paying rent with. In any case, 1500x12 is 18,000.

Set a realistic goal. But IF your mother is happy for you to move home, and you're not making assumptions on her behalf, then why not go for it. It is a wise decision in my view, but I'd be resigned to 2-3 years at home rather than the one to get good funds together.

Ursus Horribilis

Cash_Q wrote: »

You project 20k savings - will this be enough to get you on the property ladder? Maybe speak to a financial advisor/mortgage broker first. Owing to your age, it is likely that a bank will not give a mortgage of longer that 23/25 years (up to retirement age for you), so the amount you need may mean that repayments will not be within your budget on this length of term. You may need a much larger deposit than 20k.

Those thoughts crossed my mind too. Buying my house cost me about €5,000 between solicitor's fees, stamp duty, surveyors etc. And that was before I set foot in the place. We don't know where the OP's hoping to buy though so it could be enough.

The term length might be a bit longer these days - didn't they abolish the compusory retirement age a while ago? Or was that just for public servants?

It doesn't mean you can't get a mortgage - it just means you have less wriggle room. It's definitely time to get cracking on sorting your own place though.

LegacyUser

The areas that I’m looking in have apartments for around €200k so I’m thinking of the €20k being 10% deposit. My own bank want 20% of the value of the property but PTSB are way more flexible so I think I’ll be chatting with them.

I’ll get a pay increase shortly & without going into detail about my entire finances here, I’ll be up around €300 per month plus I was thinking I could pay the gas & esb in my mums house like I would’ve paid in the rented apartment so overall I should be in a good position to save the full rent amount.

Staying in my mums for 2-3 years is def not possible. I’d have some mental health issues there!! And that’s assuming she’ll take me in at all 😆

I’d have to go for the 20 year mortgage as I’m too old for anything more (ouch!)
It’s just depressing being in the situation at this age. I’ve known people who’ve had their mortgages paid off at my age & that really pisses me off!!

Squall Leonhart

Backtrack_Home wrote: »

I’d have to go for the 20 year mortgage as I’m too old for anything more (ouch!)
It’s just depressing being in the situation at this age. I’ve known people who’ve had their mortgages paid off at my age & that really pisses me off!!

"Comparison is the thief of joy" - Theodore Roosevelt.

Discovered that quote lately, and it really resonated with me. I'm guilty of it still from time to time but try not to compare your situation to others. You're doing what you can for you at this moment in your life. Can't do any more than that.

Good luck with it

Kidchameleon

I would say that you are probably going to be in your mams for longer than a year. Two at least (depending on your income of course) You never know, your mam might be so happy to have someone there that it wont be so bad

devlinio

Backtrack_Home wrote: »

I’ve known people who’ve had their mortgages paid off at my age & that really pisses me off!!

Not to be an arsehole here, but you're in the position you are currently in due to the decisions made by you. People with mortgages paid off at that age are in those positions due to decisions made by them.

No need to be pissed off, you just made poor decisions regarding finances/accommodation in your life until now.

Yellow pack crisps

devlinio wrote: »

Not to be an arsehole here, but you're in the position you are currently in due to the decisions made by you. People with mortgages paid off at that age are in those positions due to decisions made by them.

No need to be pissed off, you just made poor decisions regarding finances/accommodation in your life until now.

I’m pretty sure she is pissed off at herself. But get the boot in anyway.

iamwhoiam

My suggestion is if moving back to live with your Mum is to make a little sitting room for yourself apart from your mums sitting room
If there is room in the house to do that it will be a lot easier on you both
You both need space and time alone so a room where you can relax ,watch TV and chill would help you both to get along in my opinion

Hoboo

devlinio wrote: »

Not to be an arsehole here, but you're in the position you are currently in due to the decisions made by you. People with mortgages paid off at that age are in those positions due to decisions made by them.

No need to be pissed off, you just made poor decisions regarding finances/accommodation in your life until now.

The fact you recognise the word 'arsehole' is appropriate for what followed is at least a positive thing.

devlinio

Hoboo wrote: »

The fact you recognize the word 'arsehole' is appropriate for what followed is at least a positive thing.

Despite it being harsh, it's the truth.

Ursus Horribilis

There is no point in looking back at what you could or should have done. It's not going to fix your bank balance or have you living in a home you own. You can only do something about the present and your future. And comparing yourself to others is pointless and will drive you mad.

pwurple

Hi OP, do you have a pension from work?
Because genuinely, there is nothing wrong with long term renting if you have an income in your retirement that can cover it. Heck, take your pension to Portugal tax free and rent there in the sunshine, rather than tying yourself down here.

Being a property owner comes with a hell of a lot of expenses beyond the mortgage and can be very inflexible. You can get tied into a location that doesn’t suit your stage of life for example. Or into negative equity, or get into financial pressure and stress you don’t need.

Things you are probably not paying as a tenant. A mortgage is just the start of it. An apartment will have
Legal fees to purchase, probably around 5k
Property taxes. A few hundred per year, expected to increase.
Management fees 1 to 2 k every year and will grow annually)
Parking fees?
Furniture
Fixtures and fittings... kitchens and bathrooms break over time and need replacing. Flooring, skirting, light fittings etc
Appliances. Servicing replacing etc.
utilities, you may be paying these already.


Consider carefully.

dubrov

pwurple wrote: »

Hi OP, do you have a pension from work?
Because genuinely, there is nothing wrong with long term renting if you have an income in your retirement that can cover it. Heck, take your pension to Portugal tax free and rent there in the sunshine, rather than tying yourself down here.

Being a property owner comes with a hell of a lot of expenses beyond the mortgage and can be very inflexible. You can get tied into a location that doesn’t suit your stage of life for example. Or into negative equity, or get into financial pressure and stress you don’t need.

Things you are probably not paying as a tenant. A mortgage is just the start of it. An apartment will have
Legal fees to purchase, probably around 5k
Property taxes. A few hundred per year, expected to increase.
Management fees 1 to 2 k every year and will grow annually)
Parking fees?
Furniture
Fixtures and fittings... kitchens and bathrooms break over time and need replacing. Flooring, skirting, light fittings etc
Appliances. Servicing replacing etc.
utilities, you may be paying these already.


Consider carefully.

Just to counter the above, rent will also grow year on year while any pension the OP has may not.
it sounds like the mortgage would be about €300 less than rent a month with probably a similar amount paid off the loan principal.

It would be a prudent move for the OP to save for a home purchase.
Serious consideration should also be given to investing in a pension given the tax breaks available

SirChenjin

Just a thought, OP, leaving aside the financial aspects for a minute.

It might be difficult for your mother having you move back in, getting used to having company, and then you moving out again, even if that is what you agree from day one with her.

Best of luck whatever you decide.

Daisy78

I bought my own place just as I turned 39 after too many years flatsharing, mostly negative experiences unfortunately. Like you I felt a little embarrassed that it had taken me so long to get to a position where I could buy my own place. But I can tell you it was worth it in the end. Ignore the catty comment above about making bad financial decisions, nobody has a crystal ball, if we knew what the future held for us we all might do things differently. And in this day and age buying on your own is no mean feat.

Advice I would give is to talk to a broker. You need to know exactly what the various banks will offer you rather speculative amounts. Age is definitely a factor unfortunately and some banks will offer a lot less on this basis. As for moving back with your mum I think that is a win win situation, as long as you both understand what the terms and conditions are! Stay away from flatsharing, you might save money but it can be demoralising at times particularly when you get to a certain age and have been used to your own space.

dellas1979

I dunno-myself - I dont see owning property as being successful in life. I dont compare myself like that.

I need somewhere to live, and maybe something to trade, if/when I get older. I dont put my whole identity and self worth into bricks and mortar.

To me, being successful in life is being happy. To me that means lots of adventures and curiosity and fun.

I started the process of building my own home 2 years ago. Currently in middle of the build. I had one moment where I thought "why didnt I do this sooner?". The truth is, I hadnt been ready. All life experiences had lead to this (building takes a lot of nerve and will power).

If you want your own property, yes, in these times, there are sacrifices we've to make.

The main thing is you have a goal, and a plan how to get that goal - and it is do-able.

pwurple

dubrov wrote: »

Just to counter the above, rent will also grow year on year while any pension the OP has may not.
it sounds like the mortgage would be about €300 less than rent a month with probably a similar amount paid off the loan principal.

It would be a prudent move for the OP to save for a home purchase.
Serious consideration should also be given to investing in a pension given the tax breaks available

I think we read the post differently. I read it as the raise due would bring the net pay up 300... not anything about the cost of a mortgage.

OP, in your 40’s you can put 25% of salary into a pension, avoiding tax.

I have further questions on the home situation...
do you have siblings?
If you move home and your mum is ill, will you need to be her carer and put your job on hold?

Does your mum own her house and do you stand to inherit it?

Ursus Horribilis

So what if the pension isn't worth Jack shít by the time our OP retires, mum doesn't leave the house to them, rents continue to stay stubbornly high or they don't want to live in Portugal?

pwurple

Ursus Horribilis wrote: »

So what if the pension isn't worth Jack shít by the time our OP retires, mum doesn't leave the house to them, rents continue to stay stubbornly high or they don't want to live in Portugal?

Yes, it’s a good idea to think through the downsides and possibilities of each plan going wrong.


We can catastrophise the apartment buying... So, If this plan goes wrong, the downside of moving back with mum could be that they could be miserable, ruin their relationship with their mother/rest of family, end up putting their dog down, and get tied into another 25/30 years of working a job to pay a mortgage in an apartment that may no longer suit (and may also be worthless) a few years after they buy it. That’s the worst possible outcome.



It’s just a bunch of possible other ideas, so that the OP can explore all options, think every avenue through before committing to this. OP is in their 40’s. Retirement planning should probably be up there as a consideration too.

Ooh, I’ve another one. Work sabbatical. If you leave the place you’re renting... is it possible at work to take a short sabbatical? Do 3 months of travel, explore something that interests you that you never got around to? A yoga retreat, cycling trip, see some place you’ve always wanted, bounce around in a few hostels? A good break from work and renting might give you an idea of what you want to do with the next 40 years.



Buying property is one of a heap of long term options people can take. It’s the one that also recently tanked in this country, after everyone and their mother went nuts buying it without thinking it through. It destroyed a lot of lives. It is a huge financial decision. I met a buddy yesterday who bought an apartment two years ago and already regrets it. If she sells now she will make a 10k loss, but her circumstances changed , so she is considering just stopping paying the mortgage instead.

Putting some thought into all the other plans , what happens if they go wrong, and ruling out one by one which ones don’t suit to be sure this is the right path isn’t going to hurt the OP, there is no cost in thinking about what else happens in the next 20+ Years.

Talking them through with the other people it impacts (her mum here) will bring along some other ideas.

Ursus Horribilis

That's fair enough. I vehemently disagree with your viewpoint but it'll just drag the thread off-topic.

LegacyUser

Thanks so much for the advice.

I def want the security of owning my own home & don’t appreciate the suggestion that my dog is gonna be put down!! We’re on entirely different planets pwurple.

I know landlords can’t toss people out silly nilly now but my current landlord could still tell me he’s selling up & finding a rental for me & the pooch would be a total nightmare. I’ve a decent salary so wouldn’t mind the expenses of my own place. I just want to settle now & im sick of paying other people’s mortgages.

Will def see a mortgage broker & start prepping for all that stuff.
Would it be a good idea to chat with the likes of PTSB also?
Might be a good idea to set up a savings account with them & they’ll see the money going in each month.

pwurple

Ursus Horribilis wrote: »

That's fair enough. I vehemently disagree with your viewpoint but it'll just drag the thread off-topic.

Indeed. Vehemently disagreeing with the suggestion to think through options rationally before discounting them is a bit odd from where I’m sitting, but people differ. I wouldn’t make a 200k decision affecting 25 years of my life any other way.

They have asked for advice in Personal Issues, not accommodation and property, so I assume general advice is what they are looking for.

silent_spark

Backtrack_Home wrote: »

The areas that I’m looking in have apartments for around €200k so I’m thinking of the €20k being 10% deposit.

Just to make you aware - most apartment complexes have house rules forbidding dogs - so this might not suit your circumstances, particularly if your dog is important to you.

devlinio

silent_spark wrote: »

Just to make you aware - most apartment complexes have house rules forbidding dogs - so this might not suit your circumstances, particularly if your dog is important to you.

I'd like to see them enforce that. She's buying, not renting. It's her home, she won't be at the mercy of the landlords, or anybody.

amcalester

devlinio wrote: »

I'd like to see them enforce that. She's buying, not renting. It's her home, she won't be at the mercy of the landlords, or anybody.

Buying an apartment is a long term lease, all owners are subject to the house rules.

Caranica

devlinio wrote: »

I'd like to see them enforce that. She's buying, not renting. It's her home, she won't be at the mercy of the landlords, or anybody.

You don't buy an apartment, you don't own an apartment. You get a long lease subject to certain legally binding covenants. My lease is 999 years, and has a no dogs clause.

Amirani

amcalester wrote: »

Buying an apartment is a long term lease, all owners are subject to the house rules.

This. The other poster needs to look up the difference between leasehold and freehold.

DubCount

For OP, I think you need to consider the level of sacrifice now, for benefit in the future. Have you considered everything? Are you going to inherit your mothers property at some point, or will you be sharing an inheritance with other siblings. This may seem heartless, but as your mother is 70+ now, she will be 90+ before you reach retirement, and if you are the only one to inherit, this may be a plan for retirement that means you can continue to rent. Can you adjust your lifestyle to provide for savings in a way that does not involve moving home. Will you be able to save a deposit and purchase costs for what you want to buy, in the time you want to achieve it?

Ursus Horribilis

Or mammy could disinherit her and leave the house to the local dog's home.

BBFAN

OP if there are apartments for sale in the area you're looking for 200k is it not possible to just rent something cheaper than 1500?

Living somewhere less desirable for a couple of years may be easier than living with your mother.

DubCount

Ursus Horribilis wrote: »

Or mammy could disinherit her and leave the house to the local dog's home.

Yep, but if OP is going to spend 3 years or so moving back home to avoid renting in retirement, it might be worth a conversation. If mum is OK with OP moving in, she may think more of her than the dogs home.

Ursus Horribilis

Maybe. Let's hope the mother doesn't require nursing home care and Fair Deal.

dellas1979

Backtrack_Home wrote: »

Would it be a good idea to chat with the likes of PTSB also?
Might be a good idea to set up a savings account with them & they’ll see the money going in each month.

Its up to you what bank you speak to about a mortgage.

I spoke to nearly all of them. Asking them questions.

Spoke to them about 8 months prior to me applying to get all my ducks in a row, so I knew when I did apply that I had all pristine/looking good.

You dont need to go with the bank you do your regular account with. I went with a different bank because my bank werent offering me what I wanted.

So I went off to another bank to get the mortgage.

You will need a deposit (as you know) and the bank/s will do a stress test (basically, they take what the mortgage will be, say e850 per month, and ask you to show them that you can put away e1,250 per month for at least 6 months - its to show you can pay higher if interest rates go up).

If you intend to stay renting, you must ask them if your rent can be taken into consideration as part of the stress test.

pwurple

Ursus Horribilis wrote: »

Maybe. Let's hope the mother doesn't require nursing home care and Fair Deal.

Fair deal as we all know is ridiculously UNfair. If OP is living with her mum, she won’t qualify for home nursing.

She should also consider the risk of ending up with “Fair” deal herself long term, as that asset stripping organization is fairly well set up to take your property.


Anyway, OP, I didn’t suggest you put your dog down. Jeez, I said your pension being worth zilch is along the same lines as assuming that would happen. :rolleyes:

As your heart is set on the apartment, to answer your questions, no, it doesn’t really matter who the savings are with. On application you just show them the statement. Get a good interest rate too. For your amount, 1000-1500 per month, try AIB regular saver. You can put 1000 per month in to a high-ish interest paying account. You can set up multiples of these accounts if you are putting in more than 1000.

There is also something in KBC that might suit you... or you can do it manually. It is called a Sweeper. Basically the day before you get paid, it sweeps everything leftover in the current account into a savings account. I found that handy. Some months it was only small change but every bit helps.

If you want to go really hard core savings to get there faster , you can cut all expenses. Drop the car to something cheaper, cut all holidays, reduce social life to freebies like walks in the park. Not for everyone that plan!

For mortgages, once your savings are on track for six months, then you can start approaching lenders or brokers.

seamus

DubCount wrote: »

Yep, but if OP is going to spend 3 years or so moving back home to avoid renting in retirement, it might be worth a conversation. If mum is OK with OP moving in, she may think more of her than the dogs home.

The point is that planning your own financial decision based on what you might inherit at some indeterminate point in the future, is not good financial planning.

The value of the OP's mother's house might have collapsed between now and then. The market could be awful. The structure of the house might be so screwed that it needs a teardown and rebuild.

Rather than having something to fall back on, the OP gets €50k in her pocket and has to keep renting until she dies.

Your financial planning should always aim for complete self-sufficiency. Then any inheritance that comes your way is a bonus, not an entitlement.

pwurple

seamus wrote: »

Your financial planning should always aim for complete self-sufficiency. Then any inheritance that comes your way is a bonus, not an entitlement.

Yes, that would be the ideal in a perfect world, but it's not quite a perfect world situation here. OP is already going to be asking her mum for a financial leg up anyway, in the form of the rent free living for a couple of years. Would it make sense to see what the lay of the land is?

I think it's only prudent, if you're planning to live on top of the woman, to ask if she wants to discuss her long term financial plans before doing that. Because it could just as easily go along the lines of... sure this is your house anyway in a few years, why buy another. It's not a demand, you don't even broach it if she doesn't want to talk about it, but people make all sorts of assumptions and don't communicate them with eachother.

It's good to talk.

Neyite

Have you discussed it with your mother about potentially moving in? Not all people living alone hate it and want company.

My mother loves to see any of her offspring visit for a few days but she's visibly delighted to get her house back to normal when we go - and we are a very close family. If there was a strained relationship there's no way she would want one of us moving in.

Another relative has had her adult son move back in with her after his marriage broke down. She's not one bit happy about it but he has literally no other option for now so she's gritting her teeth. For the moment. She adores him but does not want him living at home.

So maybe before you do a lot of planning, sound her out about the possibility first to see if she is ok with it. She might be but have as many reservations as you do.

LegacyUser

Regarding any inheritance, my mum is terrified of even thinking about death so she doesn’t even have a will & has never discussed it. I couldn’t care less who gets the house but I’d like her to sort it so when the inevitable happens it’s not a total nightmare (I don’t even know what happens in those situations).

I’ve been really thinking about the whole idea of me moving back home over the last few days & I honestly don’t know if I can hack it. I’m fairly certain my mum would like it as she hates living alone & she texts me sometimes telling me she’s lonely. I’m so used to my own space & doing my own thing, it would be a huge adjustment. I haven’t discussed anything with her yet.

I discovered the Help To Buy Scheme so I’m gonna investigate that also. Seems pretty good.

Ursus Horribilis

Ursus Horribilis wrote: »

Maybe. Let's hope the mother doesn't require nursing home care and Fair Deal.

For this reason alone the op and their mother should be looking at options for transferring the house over to them. Once it’s done 5 years then the fair deal can’t touch it. Everyone should be looking into this and planning their transfers early to stop the gov getting their hands on money/property through the idiotic “fair deal”.

It also makes much more sense for people to get gifted their inheritance when they are younger and need it more rather than later in life.

pwurple

I know, the will thing freaks people some out, but I have a will and a list of any accounts, and I keep it up to date, I am in my 40's.

I have been executor of wills twice, and even with a simple one (divide all assets between my children equally) it is tricky finding accounts and cashing them in without a list. Feels awful going through someone's stuff. We had to give up on some (post office is particularly hard going).

A house is so difficult. Genuinely difficult to do for emotional reasons as well as the technicalities.



Help to buy might be good alright.

And I know you like your Independence, but short term renting out a room in your current place (if you have a spare bedroom) might help save too.